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Title: Hurricane rebuild
Description: post your experience for others


oldtime - December 16, 2011 10:27 PM (GMT)
I currently find myself breaking in a recently rebuilt Hurricane engine.
It will take up to 4000 miles to seat the rings and I have already begun another one.
Please read on if interested in my current Hurricane engine rebuild.

Lately I've been starting my jeep builds years in advance.
I search every week far and wide for genuine NOS parts.

I perform all labor less the machine work alone and by myself so labor cost is zero.
I use common engine rebuilding tools plus a few that are homemade special for the Hurricane.
Above all I trust my machinist. I know him well.
We talk untold hours about old engines vs new. Good engines vs bad etc. I teach him and he teaches me.
Dave still runs his own engine machine shop by himself. He has been in the business since 1957.

I consider my current Hurricane engine as being a very typical rebuild candidate.
It was completely wore out but with no signs of abuse or serious neglect.
The engine was completely dissasembled down to every minute detail.
The parts were then visually inspected for condition.
No cracks were found in the block.
I then took it to Dave and he measures only the #1 cylinder bore.
He says this bore is generally the worst condition due to the water pump proximity.
He estimates it will clean up if bored .030 oversize.
I then took it home until later this fall.

A couple weeks ago I drove out the valve guides.
Then cleaned all ports of carbon deposits with various wire brushes.
On a 60* day I put the NOS guides into the deep freeze.
I oiled up the guide bores while the guides cooled down.
Insulated the guides as I removed them from the deep freeze and ran outside with them ready to hammer.
I drove 4 cold ones into the head and set the depth carefully.
Next I got 4 more guides from the deep freeze.
I did the block using a homeade driver that automatically sets to the correct 1" depth.

Next it was time again for Dave.
I told Dave to pick a slow spell for the job. He said lets do it now.
Went home then came straight back to the shop.
After talking half more of a day I left the block, head and flywheel with Dave.
I instructed him to deck and shave off as much as needed.
Decking the block and shaving the head will only serve to increase the meager compression ratio.
I also instructed him to leave the freeze plugs intact because I have had perfect success to date in doing so.
One week later Dave says its all done.
Another half day of gossip and I haul it all back home.

Total work done:
$ 120 = bore and hone 4
$ 80 = resurface the deck
$ 55 = resurface the head
$ 50 = resurface the flywheel
$ 30 = resize big bore end 4 rods
$ 70 = degrease block
$ 40 = cut 8 seats

Next I cleaned up the crankshaft then took it to a life long crankshaft grinder over in the big city.
This particular crankshaft was removed from a different and a rusty ole engine.
Besides resizing the main journals and rod journals;
I told him to turn down the rear seal journal using his special narrow cut wheel.

$ 225 = turned crankshaft

Total for Parts:
$ 20 = NOS intake valve guides
$ 20 = NOS exhaust valve guides
$ 50 = NOS overhaul gasket set
$ 8 = NOS camshaft bearing
$ 66 = NOS mainshaft bearings
$ 140 = NOS pistons
$ 48 = NOS ring set
$ 30 = NOS rod bearings
$ 40 = NOS exhaust valves
$ 40 = NOS intake valves
$ 8 = Champion spark plugs

spm1us - December 17, 2011 12:38 PM (GMT)
Oldtime, sounds like you're on the path to a quality rebuild, but I question why it would take 4000 miles to break-in the engine??? Are you using Moly faced piston rings from Sealed power or Hastings??? With the correct bore and hone finish, they will seat in less than an hours run time. Also, did you consider using stainless steel valves on your rebuild - the difference in fuel and lubricating oil is vast compared to when these engine were initially designed/built. Depending on the age of the "NOS" gasket set, beware of old rubber gaskets/seals. Did you replace the rod bolts and nuts prior to re-sizing the big end??? Did you re-use the camshaft and lifters??? If so, did you match each lifter to its original lobe on the cam??? Did you rebuild or replace the oil pump??? Did you use brass freeze plugs in lieu of steel??? Did you have the rotating assembly, clutch, flywheel and balancer balanced???? We take a number of additional steps when rebuilding the engines to provide increased reliability, performance and longer life. Good Luck with your project, Sam Michael Jr, Jax, FL

oldtime - December 17, 2011 04:35 PM (GMT)
QUOTE
but I question why it would take 4000 miles to break-in the engine???
Because oil consumption is increased until the rings perfectly match the bore shape.
QUOTE
Are you using Moly faced piston rings from Sealed power or Hastings???
No, I only use cast iron rings.
I prefer to use Sealed Power, Muskegon or Perfect Circle. Hastings cast rings are also good but are not NOS.
QUOTE
Also, did you consider using stainless steel valves on your rebuild.
The exhaust valves are particularly important.
The NOS exhaust are clearly marked Eatonite on their heads.
The NOS intake valves are not.
QUOTE
"NOS" gasket set, beware of old rubber gaskets/seals.
No rubber but some are neoprene.
QUOTE
Did you replace the rod bolts and nuts prior to re-sizing the big end???
No. Many rebuilt Willys engines with no problems. I even re-work then re-use the stamped "Pal" nuts.
QUOTE
Did you re-use the camshaft and lifters???
Yes, If the camshaft passes visual inspection. The last camshaft I have happens to be new.
I inspect and re-use the tappets. The tips of the exhaust tappet adjusters were ground true.
I inspect and re-use original rocker assemblies.
Pay close attention to the rocker shaft.
Absolutely no grooving allowed. That which is caused from the rockers motion.
If the shaft is worn the rockers will be worn.
The push rods need be straight and inspect the spherical contacts for condition.
QUOTE
did you match each lifter to its original lobe on the cam???
Yes
QUOTE
Did you rebuild or replace the oil pump???
I have never bought a new pump. I thoroughly inspect original used pumps for condition.
Never had a single oil pump problem since 1975.
QUOTE
Did you use brass freeze plugs in lieu of steel???
I never remove the original freeze plugs. Here again zero problems since 1975.
QUOTE
Did you have the rotating assembly, clutch, flywheel and balancer balanced????
No The crankshafts were independantly balanced when new.
The flywheel was independantly balanced when new.
NOS Auburn (my preference) clutches were independently balanced when new.

Doug - May 12, 2012 04:35 AM (GMT)
I have a spare Hurricane block that I've torn down and it's about ready for the machine shop. Unfortunately, I don't have a trusted machine shop, so I will have to check around and maybe get some references from some folks. My goal is to get it in a shop this month.

This will only be my second engine rebuild and the first, I had the shop build me a short block, so most of the block work will be new to me. On this one, I intend to do as much work myself as possible. I am not intimidated with working inside the engine, but have many, many questions. I've got several service manuals, Moses Ludel's Jeep Rebuilders guide and, most importantly, the Bulletin Board!

I will just start off with a couple. Is it recommended to remove the plugs in the pics below prior to getting the block cleaned/inspected at the machine shop? (reason I ask is because I tried getting them out and they wouldn't budge!)

user posted image

user posted image

Initially, I just plan to have them clean and magnaflux the block and ensure it's rebuildable before sinking any more money into it. Any other recommendations at this point? Once we get this nailed down, I will ask some more :P

Thanks!

oldtime - May 12, 2012 02:51 PM (GMT)
Take your time locating a reputable machinist.
He or she (?) can easily make or break the rebuild.
Bore concentricity, sizing and uniformity are all crucial to a dependable and durable engine rebuild.
A good machinist can estimate the exact bore O.S. by measuring the #1 cylinder.
The #1 usually wears the quickest because it is near the waterpump; thus it is overly cooled.

If you cannot visually find cracks, the magna flux procedure probably won't find any either.
On my last 2 rebuilds I just skipped the cost of magna fluxing the block.
I know where to look, then I clean the areas and inspect with a good magnifing glass.

I remove all oil plugs before having the block "hot tanked".
The 2 down by the oil pickup probably are not very critical to remove.
But you will want to blow air through all galleries after hot tanking.
The 2 plugs located at the fore and aft ends of the main oil gallery should be pulled.
You may need or want to swab the main oil gallery.
What I did was to make my own tool for removing the main gallery plugs.
It's simply an old 3/8" ratchet extension that was ground down to fit the square female pipe plugs .

In your pic I see a crankshaft bearing dowel remains in place.
Remove them all before they get lost.
I use a dull diagonal cutter to grip them.

I install new valve guides before I ever send one to the machinist.
The guides should be changed before the valves seats are machined.
More details after it passes the magnafluxing process.......

Doug - May 13, 2012 04:20 AM (GMT)
Awesome! Thanks Ken!

I might have a lead on a machine shop. Talked to my neighbor, who is retired, and he told me about a shop that he said has been around since he was a kid. I'll have to go by and talk to them.

From doing a bit of reading, I see that a common area for cracks is between #2 and #3 exhaust valves. Where else should I concentrate on. I may still foot the bill for magna flux, just to be sure.


jyotin - May 13, 2012 01:20 PM (GMT)
It is always a good idea to have the rods trued up. By this I mean that the machine shop installs the rod caps on the rods and then makes sure that the "hole" that is formed is actually round. It costs very little to test for "roundness". The machine shop I use has had to machine the rods/caps round on almost all of the rods I've sent them.

j

Daryl - May 22, 2012 01:55 AM (GMT)
So you talked me into Ken. I am gonna rebuild a f-head and put a 1960 all back to stock running gear plus 11" brakes. Should be fun to do one that is stock for once.

oldtime - May 22, 2012 03:09 PM (GMT)
Daryl,
You leave me speechless !

Doug - June 6, 2012 05:08 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (jyotin @ May 13 2012, 06:20 AM)
It is always a good idea to have the rods trued up.  By this I mean that the machine shop installs the rod caps on the rods and then makes sure that the "hole" that is formed is actually round.  It costs very little to test for "roundness".  The machine shop I use has had to machine the rods/caps round on almost all of the rods I've sent them.

j

Thank you Jyotin. I took the rods down to the machine shop today and instructed him to check them.

I took him the valves, crank and tappets as well. he said he'd check the tappets, but would have to send away to grind them if they needed it.

He has already hot tanked and magna fluxed the head and block. That ran me $135.

He also told me that the cylinders have already been bored .030 over, so he figures it's going to take .060 this time. He observed some discoloration he figures is from heat between #3 and 4, but at least no cracks. Lots of carbon in/on the block.

The estimate right now, not including the hot tank and magna flux is about $900. That includes the crank, boring, valves, hardened valve seats, installing valve guides and cam bearing and work on the rods. I was hoping to be in the $700 range, but I just want to make sure this is all done right. That price is worst case scenario, too. He's not sure that the crank will need to be reground, maybe just polished. I could save a little over $100 if I installed my own valve guides and cam bearing.

Once I have a for sure list of what is going to be done, I'll post it up along with the prices, as Ken did above. If we get a few more people to post up what they had done and how much it cost, we can start to see an average of what it will cost to get machine work done on your engine.

A couple questions:

1. Is it recommended to purchase all new valve springs while I'm at it or test the old ones somehow?

2. If some of the valves cannot be salvaged, is it OK to just replace the ones that need to be replaced or do you replace all of them if all of the originals cannot be used?

Thanks!

oldtime - June 6, 2012 11:22 PM (GMT)
QUOTE
he said he'd check the tappets, but would have to send away to grind them if they needed it.
Grinding of the tappet adjusters is a very simple procedure.
If the tappet faces need ground I have a complete extra set that I am planning to sell.
QUOTE
That includes the crank, boring, valves, hardened valve seats,
Does this block not already have stellite exhaust inserts ?


You should be able to test the springs as is indicated in the Universal Service Manual (USM)
Unless the exhaust valves are in VGC I would replace them all.
Then you can expect about 75,000 miles between valve jobs.
The intake valves are not as critical, so grinding them is just fine.
If any valves need replaced do all 4 at one time.
The stems will be scored on the old refaced valves and that can cause issues.


Doug - June 7, 2012 03:56 AM (GMT)
I would have thought the tappets to be easy, too. I was kind of surprised when he said he would have to send them away. If he finds them to be bad, I'll post a want ad :)

How do I tell if the block has stellite valve seats? I seem to recall hearing that when rebuilding the F head that you should always have hardened valve seats put in it. So, if it has stellite valve seats, you wouldn't recommend doing anything to them?

As always, thank you for your advice!

Doug

oldtime - June 7, 2012 03:26 PM (GMT)
As far as I know all Hurricane's already have stellite exhaust valve seat inserts.
A stellite ring is inserted at each valve position in the block.
These generally do not require replacement since they last the service life of the block.
They will need to be re-ground to specification.
But new valve guides should be installed first.
The head intake valves should not be inserted with stellite seats.

Bruce W - June 8, 2012 02:02 AM (GMT)
It should be easy enought re-face the tappet tips, but most shops today no longer have the equipment to do it or someone who knows how. I have both. Tell ya what I'll do -- if you'll send me your four exhaust tappets and include return postage, I'll grind them for you, free of charge. BW

Doug - June 8, 2012 02:43 PM (GMT)
Ken - when I talk to the machinist next time, I'll tell him just to regrind the ones in there already. thank you for the information!

Bruce - that is awesome, thank you! When I hear the verdict on the tappets from the machinist, I will let you know. I really appreciate your offer!

Bruce W - June 8, 2012 11:18 PM (GMT)
I can test your springs too, while we're at it. BW

Doug - July 29, 2012 07:42 PM (GMT)
Bruce,

Sorry for the very late reply. The next time I went to the machine shop, he had already worked the tappets. I bought new valve springs, too. I really appreciate your offer!

I finally got my engine back from the machine shop. It was there for two months. That's what I get for telling him I wasn't in a hurry. What I meant was I didn't need it done that week.

Fresh from the shop:

user posted image

user posted image

Today I was looking over the block, getting ready to start reassembly and came upon this. This is supposed to be a brand new cam bearing. Doesn't look new to me. I paid for a new one and delivered it to the machine shop. I went through all the parts he returned and there isn't another bearing there, but the empty box is there. Not happy. This can't be a new bearing, can it??

user posted image

user posted image

oldtime - July 29, 2012 07:53 PM (GMT)
That looks like an old cam bearing.
I suggest you check the camshaft for fit


Doug - July 30, 2012 12:43 AM (GMT)
I slid the cam shaft in place this afternoon using assembly lube and it seems to fit OK. I can't detect any side to side play. I can turn the cam shaft with two fingers.

I will call up the machine shop tomorrow and try to find out what happened. If need be, I will bite the bullet and buy a new bearing and install it myself which I probably should have done in the first place.

Doug - August 6, 2012 01:12 AM (GMT)
The machine shop ordered a new cam bearing and swapped it out, no questions asked. They took full responsibility. Dropped it off and had it back in a few hours.

Today I put in the tappets and camshaft. I put in the main bearings and saw this on the front one:

user posted image

How critical is this mis-match? These are bearings from Walck's whatever brand they use. The middle and rear bearings all line up with the oil holes, only the front is off a bit.

Some other pictures just for other folks reference

Tappets, camshaft and main bearings installed:

user posted image

Crankshaft sitting in place prior to plastigauge:

user posted image

I plastigauged the mains and they are between .0015" and .002":

user posted image

oldtime - August 6, 2012 02:57 PM (GMT)
Good work Doug.
The mis-aligned oil gallery hole in the bearing should not be a problem.
It's not that far off from being aligned.
When one cleans the oil galleries that go through the crankshaft they might notice that the gallery diameter can vary.

I suggest that you take a clean paint brush and apply a film of engine oil to the entire inside of the block.
On my last block I used Mobil One 15W-50 for prelubing most internal engine components.
I directly brushed "Lucas break in zinc oil addative" at full strenght onto the camshaft lobes and tappets.
I used Mobile One grease on the rear main seal.

Doug - August 12, 2012 11:50 PM (GMT)
Thanks for the information Ken!

Now that I know the oil holes in the front bearing are acceptable and I got some more parts in this week, I was all ready today to make some good progress and get some work done on this engine :)

I spent half the day trying to figure out why I had NO crankshaft endplay at all. On my dial indicator, each mark is .001" I could only get enough movement to move half of one of those marks. After removing the crankshaft, I finally saw the problem, the rear main seal on the block side was in wrong, allowing no movement. I had the seal correct on the cap though. I don't know how I managed to do that in the first place, let alone not catch it sooner. Thank god for checking end play though!

After correcting the seal and bolting the crank back in place, I could immediately tell I had end play. Setting up the dial indicator again, I found I have .039" of end play. There were no shims in place when I took the engine apart. I should have .004-.006". Some quick math tells me I have about .034" to make up with shims. Since the shim (part number 630262) are .002" thick each, that means I need 17 to get me into tolerance. That seems very excessive to me.

Now, I'm not sure if I was measuring properly. I've been following along in the Jeep CJ Rebuilders Manual by Moses Ludel and set up like it shows in that book. Here is a picture of my setup:
user posted image

I'd gently pry the crank all the way to the rear, zero the dial indicator, then pry the crank forward.

I found a thread on the 2A forum and it says in there that everything should be on the crankshaft and the nut torqued prior to checking: http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/cranksha...topic12703.html

When I tried it this way, I once again had absolutely NO end play. Which way is correct?

This seems like it should be way easier than this.....

oldtime - August 13, 2012 03:45 PM (GMT)
First off did you visually inspect the thrust bearing surface on the front of the crankshaft ?
It should protrude outward from the front rod throw cheek by about .020 " and it should be polished smooth.
Correct crankshaft end play is fairly important but there is no need for extreme precision measurements.
.034" end play is certainly a problem so I expect that you did not have the crankshaft gear installed to aquire that reading.

Here is my usual procedure:
After test fitting all main bearings with plastigauge I then procede to check the crankshaft end play.
Re-inspect all bearing surfaces.
Lube assemble and torque the crankshaft into position.
Place the original amount of crankshaft shims back into position on the crankshaft.
Install the bearing thrust plate making sure the inner bevel of the thrust plate is positioned toward the crankshaft.
Install the woodruff key and push the crankshaft gear all the way onto the crankshaft.
Pry the crankshaft foreward so the front thrust bearing makes full contact with the crankshaft thrust face.
Take a flat bladed feeler and check the gap between the thrust plate and the front bearing face.
Adjust by installing or removing .002" shims. The shims are placed between the thrust plate and the crankshaft bearing face.
The slightly more precise dial indicator can be used instead of the flat bladed feeler gauges.

http://www.film.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Engine/Rebuild5.html

Doug - August 14, 2012 03:14 AM (GMT)
Thanks Ken, as soon as I get time to get back out there, I will check what you mentioned and get back to you.

Even though there were no shims when I took it apart, I figured I'd need some, so I placed an order for shims today. Walck's is out of them, Kaiser Willys wants $6 a piece so I ended up ordering a NOS shim kit from Jungle Jims Willys Jeep Parts.

Doug - August 15, 2012 02:38 AM (GMT)
OK, I think I have it now. I read your post numerous times and it still wasn't real clear until I got out to the engine. Then it kind of fell into place.

This is the thrust bearing surface that you mentioned, correct? I know the picture is in kind of close, but that is the front main journal.

user posted image

I'm not sure that is was polished, but it is smooth and I can't feel any ridges on it. Seems good to me.

Once that was good, I reinstalled the front bearing cap and set about checking end play again. My feeler gauge set only goes down to .010" so I used my dial indicator. After installing the bearing thrust plate, I lightly tapped the gear onto the shaft.

I checked several times and ended up with between .010" and .012"

Then I thought, how do I know that gear is fully seated and that it's not moving slightly when I pry the crankshaft? (I know you said there is no need to get extreme) So I decided the only way to know for sure was to temporarily install everything and torque the crankshaft pulley nut down.

user posted image

I first torqued it to 100ft lbs and found that I got .005" endplay. I upped the torque to 110ft lbs and still had .005"

The crank still turns freely with no binding and since there were no shims in place to begin with, I feel pretty comfortable calling it good right now.

oldtime - August 15, 2012 02:26 PM (GMT)
QUOTE
This is the thrust bearing surface that you mentioned, correct?
Yes. This one appears to be normal and in excellent condition.

QUOTE
Then I thought, how do I know that gear is fully seated and that it's not moving slightly when I pry the crankshaft?
Good call Doug.
Typically the gear is a very snug fit onto the crankshaft but if its not tight then one should install the crank pully and nut to make sure the thrust washer is fully seated tight.
.005" crankshaft thrust play is perfect !

Doug - August 18, 2012 03:35 AM (GMT)
I feel really dumb or paranoid or perhaps both.

I installed my new timing gear from NAPA tonight. I was lucky? enough to buy one with the timing mark already on it so I thought it would be relatively straight forward.

Here is a shot of the gears lined up:
user posted image

Not willing to leave well enough alone, I wanted to be doubly sure things were right. I wanted to check the distance between woodruff keys as Don shows to do HERE

I got my dial caliper out, set it for 4.485" and measured exactly as shown in the diagram. When the one end was on the far edge of the one key, here is where the other end came to:
user posted image

So, I added 0.075" as Don's sheet said to (indicates one tooth off). I set the caliper to 4.560" and with one end on the far edge of the one key, here is where the other end comes to:
user posted image

That appears show that it's exactly one tooth off.

So, I then worked through Don's other method for finding the TDC on the gear (also in the above link). I drew the perpendicular line from the key and labeled that tooth 14. I counted clockwise to zero and that was the tooth that had the dot.

So, what do the experts say? Is it good or am I one tooth off?

Thanks!!

oldtime - August 18, 2012 02:32 PM (GMT)
Ouch I just sealed up the timing gears on my engine which is a mix of original and genuine NOS parts.
Plus I just painted the engine yesterday so I'm not going to open it back up to verify any measurements.

Neither did I verify the timing gear information that Derek recently added to Tech Tips.
But there's more than one method to determine correct valve timing.

Here's my suggestions....

Do you still have the original camshaft gear for comparison ?
Use that fort reference or better yet....

Leave the timing gear on as is.
Rotate the crankshaft until the #1 and #4 pistons are at TDC.
Crankshaft key should be pointed straight toward the right side.
If the gear timing is correct the #3 exhaust tappet will be raised up roughly 1/4".
All other exhaust tappets will be fully down.

As always thanks for posting !

Doug - August 18, 2012 07:52 PM (GMT)
I got out the old camshaft and compared it best I could. All lobes appear to point in the right direction. Of course if any were off a few degrees, I probably wouldn't notice as it's kind of difficult to see down in there.

I don't have my pistons in yet, but I put the crank at what appears to be TDC on 1 and 4:
user posted image

The crank gear key faced to the right of the engine like you said:
user posted image

Here is what I see when 1 and 4 are TDC:
user posted image

It appears that #2 exhaust tappet is up about 1/4" while the rest are fully down. The intake tappet on #3 is up about 3/16" of an inch and the intake tappet on #4 is up just slightly - maybe a 1/16"

oldtime - August 18, 2012 09:26 PM (GMT)
QUOTE
I got out the old camshaft and compared it best I could. All lobes appear to point in the right direction.
No not the camshaft. That couldn't hardly be wrong.
I meant for you to directly compare the camshaft gears.

QUOTE
The crank gear key faced to the right of the engine like you said:
Your pic shows the crankshaft gear key to the left not the right.
So either I made a mistake or something is wrong.
It appears to me that your valve timing may somehow be 180* off.
As I stated the #3 exhaust should be up not #2.
And #2 is the opposing cylinder to #3.

I hope your not in a hurry I'll need to double check my engines settings since I typed the previous information from my memory.
I should have the information verified by tomorrow.

By the way... the bores, the crankshaft rod journals and the valve guides all look excellent.

Doug - August 18, 2012 10:59 PM (GMT)
Thanks Ken, I read your post too quick and missed that you meant the camshaft gear. The old one came off in pieces so I can't compare. It already had teeth busted off when I pulled the timing cover. It would not come off the shaft no matter what I did, even had a heavy duty puller on it.

Yeah, I wasn't sure if you meant right side when facing the engine or the right side of the engine itself; believe it or not, I do know the difference between right and left :D . I assumed that since 1 and 4 were TDC, timing marks lined up and the key pointed directly to my right as I was looking at it that was the way you meant.

I really appreciate you taking the time to help out with this. I'm not in a big hurry. Still have parts to buy to finish this up and I don't expect to put this engine in until we're done with trail rides this year - probably late Oct or Nov.

Thanks!!

oldtime - August 19, 2012 07:06 PM (GMT)
When I rebuild a Willys 134 I do not use an engine stand.
For that reason almost all of the rebuild is done upside down.
So I'm guilty ...I'm the one who mixed up right from left.

I looked my engine over and determined a more precise way to determine correct valve timing.
Here goes.....
Rotate crankshaft untill #1 and #4 pistons appear to be TDC.
The crankshaft woodruff keys will be pointing straight left (toward the exhaust port side of the engine block).
The crankshaft and camshaft gears dots will be aligned.
Either the #2 or the #3 exhaust tappet will begin to raise up.
Does not matter which particular exhaust tappet is raised as long as its #2 or #3.
The tappet will be raised about 1.25".
If the valve is installed the valve will be openened .016 " less or about 1.10 " opened.
Now continue to rotate the crankshaft clockwise.
The same exhaust tappet will now continue to open even futher.

If those specifications apply to your engine then the valve timing must be correct.

Don - August 19, 2012 09:24 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Doug @ Aug 17 2012, 11:35 PM)
I feel really dumb or paranoid or perhaps both.

I installed my new timing gear from NAPA tonight.  I was lucky? enough to buy one with the timing mark already on it so I thought it would be relatively straight forward.

Here is a shot of the gears lined up:
user posted image

Not willing to leave well enough alone, I wanted to be doubly sure things were right.  I wanted to check the distance between woodruff keys as Don shows to do HERE

I got my dial caliper out, set it for 4.485" and measured exactly as shown in the diagram.  When the one end was on the far edge of the one key, here is where the other end came to:
user posted image

So, I added 0.075" as Don's sheet said to (indicates one tooth off).  I set the caliper to 4.560" and with one end on the far edge of the one key, here is where the other end comes to:
user posted image

That appears show that it's exactly one tooth off.

So, I then worked through Don's other method for finding the TDC on the gear (also in the above link).  I drew the perpendicular line from the key and labeled that tooth 14.  I counted clockwise to zero and that was the tooth that had the dot.

So, what do the experts say?  Is it good or am I one tooth off?

Thanks!!

Doug, I think you look good using the mark on the gear. but double check with Oldtime's method.

=================

Doug, Oldtime, other members,

So sorry for the concern referenced in the camshaft gear TDC marking. I can vouch for the count method and for the paper/perpendicular method of locating the reference mark on the camshaft gear.

http://www.film.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Tech/CamshaftGear.html

I can not vouch for the 4.485" measurement that Steve provided. I know when I laid the gears on the bench(without benefit of shafts) I also got a wild swing in measurements.

I will copy this to Derek and ask him to remove that "DOUBLE CHECK" portion of the tech tip.

I lost contact with Steve years ago.
Don Norris

Doug - August 23, 2012 11:50 PM (GMT)
Ken, Don,

Thank you both for the excellent information! Between both of your information, I feel pretty confident that the valve timing is set correctly.

QUOTE (oldtime)
I looked my engine over and determined a more precise way to determine correct valve timing.
Here goes.....
Rotate crankshaft untill #1 and #4 pistons appear to be TDC.  Done
The crankshaft woodruff keys will be pointing straight left (toward the exhaust port side of the engine block).  Done
The crankshaft and camshaft gears dots will be aligned.  Done
Either the #2 or the #3 exhaust tappet will begin to raise up.  It was #2 exhaust tappet
Does not matter which particular exhaust tappet is raised as long as its #2 or #3.
The tappet will be raised about 1.25".  mine was 7/8 - 15/16" but the adjusting screw was in all the way
If the valve is installed the valve will be openened .016 " less or about 1.10 " opened.
Now continue to rotate the crankshaft clockwise.  Done
The same exhaust tappet will now continue to open even further.  #2 exhaust tappet continued to rise

If those specifications apply to your engine then the valve timing must be correct.


Here is #2 exhaust tappet when gear dots are aligned, 1&4 appear to be TDC and crank key pointing to exhaust manifold side of engine.
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Here is #2 exhaust tappet after turning the crank clockwise a bit
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I think I can continue this weekend. I'm sure I'll be back with more questions. :D

Doug - August 25, 2012 02:14 AM (GMT)
I made good use of a day off today and got some more done on this engine rebuild.

Here is the oil jet reinstalled. It had the .070" orifice and I had the machine shop braze it shut and re-drill to .040"

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Next, I set about installing the rings onto the pistons. Forgot to get a picture of one before I put it in the block. I taped up the bottom of the rod so it wouldn't scratch or damage the cylinder wall during installation. The ring compressor I ordered from Amazon worked perfectly. Just tapped it in with a wooden hammer handle.

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Here is the taped up end

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Only ran into one issue. You're supposed to install the rods with the stamping (#1, #2, etc) towards the cam shaft side of the engine. I thought I did this until I went to put #1 and #4 rod caps on and found they were backwards. I pulled the two rods/pistons back out and re-installed as prescribed.

Here is #1 and #4 installed. Anyone know the purpose of that notch in the top of each piston?

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And finally, all pistons/rods installed and torqued to specs.

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spm1us - August 25, 2012 12:40 PM (GMT)
Hello Doug, the notch in the piston is there to indicate being installed towards the "FRONT" of the engine. Most pistons have the wrist pins offset to alleviate "Piston Slap" during operation. An old racer's trick was to reverse the install and place facing the bellhousing/flywheel to free up a few horses. Did you dip the pistons in 30W oil or Marvel Mystery Oil before placing them in the bores??? The MMO burns off clean and leaves no carbon in the ring grooves. I remember a fellow who brought in a fresh engine rebuild that was locked tighter than Dick's hatband. He never oiled the pistons/rods and they seized on him while awaiting installation. If you rebuild again try using some short pieces of has hose or buy some rod boots from your engine parts wholesaler - they are a whole lot cheaper than a crank polish/regrind from a nick on the journal. Did you check the ring gaps prior to install, it's not uncommon to find some that are out of tolerance. I hope you offset the end gaps while placing the rings on the pistons. We always place the oil ring spacer gap centered on the wrist pin bore that faces the intake valve. the oil ring spacers are placed at 45 degrees each way from the centered spacer as viewed from the top of the piston. The 2nd ring faces the left side of the engine and the top ring face the right side 180 degrees away. This places the gap in compression on the thrust side of the piston. Try to borrow/find a pre-oil tank that can be pressurized to pre-oil the engine prior to fire-up. Due to Willys design, the oil pump can not be spun to prime the oiling system, pre-oil the rotating assembly and remove air from the oil passages. Please don't use multi-weight oil for break-in - find a good straight weight (30W) Diesel oil like Shell Rotella, Chevron Delo or Mobil's Delvac - your engine will thank you. Don't use synthetic oil for at least 2500 - 3000 miles. Good Luck with your project, Sam Michael Jr, Jax, FL

Doug - August 26, 2012 02:38 AM (GMT)
Thanks for the information, Sam!

I staggered the rings, but not as you described. Also, the oil control ring and spacers, I left those all pretty much lined up as that is how the picture on the instructions showed and didn't get into any other detail on it. I wondered about it and should have stopped and asked <_<

I liberally oiled both the cylinder bores and the piston before installing, but didn't check the ring gap since they are new. Sounds like it is recommended anyway.

I think I am going to try to take the pistons back out tomorrow and re-check the rings. I'd rather take the extra time now and know it's right.

Thanks again!

Doug - September 4, 2012 02:34 AM (GMT)
Finally more progress on this long weekend :)

First, I removed the pistons and took the time to check the ring gap - all were within specs. When putting them back together, I staggered the rings as described above.

Once that was taken care of, I installed the oil pump. That wasn't too difficult. I lined up the timing marks on the crank and cam gears and temporarily installed the distributer. I filled the pump with oil, but most probably came out afterwards when I turned the engine on the stand.
With the oil pump installed, the rotor points towards 5 o'clock.

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Next, timing cover was installed. I poured a little 30 weight oil over the gears before installing the cover. Crankshaft pulley installed and torqued to 130 foot-pounds. I don't know what those huge pieces of metal are for on the pulley - they were on it when I got it.

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Installed the freshly cleaned oil pickup and then the oil pan and crank pulley shield. Before sealing the bottom of the engine, I liberally applied 30 wt oil throughout the block.

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I poured oil into the oil galley holes before installing the oil galley plugs. I don't know if it will do much good, I think it will mostly drain out <_<

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Last thing I got done today is to install/adjust the exhaust valves.

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Next up - install the head.

Unless someone spots something I did wrong, I'm starting to see light at the end of the tunnel. Still got some parts to order though.

oldtime - September 4, 2012 04:07 PM (GMT)
Everything looks correct to me except the fitting on the front oil tap.
See: http://z4.invisionfree.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_B...?showtopic=4278

Doug - September 15, 2012 06:56 PM (GMT)
OK, only a little more progress but now I can really tell I'm nearing the end of this rebuild :)

Head is on and torqued down.

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Next up, I'm tackling the rocker arm assembly. I currently have it all pulled apart, have it cleaned and I've inspected it. I believe I want to get a new rocker shaft due to some corrosion and scratching on it.

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My big question here is how much scratching is acceptable on the rocker arm and rocker arm bracket bushings or bearing? Are the bushing/bearings replaceable or would one have to buy the whole new assembly? I tried to get some close up pictures but the camera didn't want to focus right.

Here is one of the rocker arms:

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And one of the brackets:

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Is some wear on the ears of the rocker arm any cause for concern? I'm talking the parts that ride on the valve and on the push rod. I would imagine that as long as you can still get the proper valve lash adjustment it wouldn't be a big deal?

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Thanks!! :)




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