You may or may not be aware, but Clive Cussler does not believe that man has landed on the moon. Some of us watched in 1969 as the astronauts descended from the lunar module and onto the surface below, but where was that footage shot? We've all had the official story drummed into our brains for many years, now here is an alternative to the official story. The aim of this survey is to see what Clive Cussler fans think after viewing this video clip :

A funny thing happened on the way to the Moon

After viewing the movie, fill out the Poll Above this post and add your comments too if you wish.

And to imagine that I always thought that the subject on the CCDB was way off topic..... :lol:

The movie, Capricorn One was based on the idea that it was a hoax. I remember my mother waking me up to watch the moon landing on TV. I believe in our Space program and have since the 1960s. I just wish we had a president who can and will make sure that we have a vital space program.

Being from the generation that didn't get to see the moon landing that was pretty intriguing and makes me wonder more about it all. Just imagine what they could have put together with today's special effects...

Here's an exerpt from Sahara ;

Several miles west of Washington, D.C., in the Maryland countryside, a large hill rises above the flat surrounding farmland. Passing motorists who take the time to notice the anomaly think of it as merely a geological trick of nature. Almost none know that it was secretly man-made from soil that was excavated for a command center and shelter for the capital city's politicians and military leaders in World. War II.
During the cold war, work never stopped, and the subterranean spread was enlarged into a vast storeroom for the nation's records and artifacts dating back to the first pioneers who settled the eastern coastline in the 1600s. The interior space is so expansive it is not measured in meters or acres but in square miles or kilometers. To those few who are aware of its existence it is known as ASD (Archival Safekeeping Depository).
Thousands of secrets are buried away in the seemingly unending archival storage bins of the depository. For some strange reason, known only to certain very few bureaucrats, entire sections of the depository hold classified material and objects that will never be revealed to the public. The bones of Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan and Japanese records of their execution on Saipan, the secret conspiracy files of both Kennedy assassinations, the intelligence of Soviet sabotage behind American space rocket and shuttle accidents and the retaliation at Chernobyl, staged films of the Apollo moon landing hoax, and much, much more-it was all filed and stored away, never to see the light of day.

Every generation has it's share of conspiracies...from the Kennedy assasinations to the moon landings to the events of September 11th, 2001.
And every conspiracy has so many facts that they can be twisted into anyone's interpertation of them.
A single piece of evidence in a matter can be used to prove something, or entirely disprove it. It's really all in the presentaion of said fact, and the ability of that fact's presenter.

Perhaps I'm a misguided fool or an eternal optimist, but my vote was that we actually did land on the moon.

I'm with you John, I believe we did land on the moon. Some day we will land on Mars too! th:

So if we did land on the moon.....why haven't we done it again?The government spends billions on the space program every year all we get are the boring shuttle flights.Why not spend some of those billions and build a base on the moon as a jumping off point for future generations to get to Mars.
I'm with Clive on this one.It was a very well executed hoax...nothing more,nothing less.

It was exciting when the Space Shuttle came along and made it possible to go into space on a regular basis. it was never boring because of all the technical and human work that went into the program. The only thing that doomed the Space Shuttle program were the political compromises that were made just after the Apollo program ended. It has always been a risk to go into space and anything worthwhile doing has always had it's risks and I will defend the work of our Space program. Despite a lack of Presidential leadership since JFK, NASA has done what it can despite the backhanded support of every President since then. We need a LEADER again to get our soft, lazy lifes behind us and live life to it's fullest by exploring Space and making sacrifices when it comes time to fight against those who think they can destroy Western Civilization. p:

Here's an excerpt from a Clive Cussler interview ;

As for the space program, he [Cussler] thinks the Apollo mission was a hoax.
"Rocket scientists I talk to say we didn't have the technology then, and we don't have it now," he says. "Here we have this Saturn rocket that puts out zillions of pounds of thrust, and it throws this huge weight into space, goes to the moon, circles, this little thing comes out of it, goes down and lands, comes back up, connects, returns -- and it worked right every time. And we still have rockets blowing up, and destroying a shuttle?
"It's lots of fun to speculate. You can study the photographs -- no stars in the background, nothing like that. If there's one-sixth the gravity on the moon, why couldn't the astronauts jump higher, instead of doing those little crow hops?"

link

Has anyone here seen the video of the "plane" hitting the pentagon? I've watched it doezens of times and never does it look like a 747 to me. Also some interesting video of the WTC collapsing where you can see explosions on each floor right below the the floor that was collapsing. But like he said, facts and images can be twisted to make any point you want, just watch a Michael Moore video.

I was just watching the Daily Show with Jon Stewart and they were talking about the moon landing hoax and how America is planning on actually building a base on the moon in the "near" future. (One of the jokes was NASA was reporting from the site of the original hoax, the landing site set) They were also talking about Europe's next plan, Smart1, where they are going to crash the Smart1 into the moon's surface to see the dirt underneath the dirt on the surface. If we've already been there and done that why are we still so focused on it? Just a thought.

Oh and a side note, personally I think the Space program funding could really be put to better use understanding our planet first before trekking across the galaxy. How can we expect to understand and learn from what we find on other moons and planets if we don't understand our own planet and all its quirks first? We could do so much more research and protection of rainforests and sea life and everything in between with that funding.

I voted "Not sure" but I'm leaning toward "no".

Yes, if we could have done it back then why can't we do it again.

I've heard the "there are no stars in any of the pictures" theories, but I belive the explainations for them. Poor cameras cant pick up tiny stars.

I've heard the flag fluttering thoery, but belive the explaination.

But what I dont believe is the fact that parts of the Apollo crafts were made of very thin material. Some parts as thick as tissue paper. The fact that space is very very very cold. They would simply not have enough power to remain heated for that extended period of time. Just imagine how power it would take to heat up a small room when the temperature outside is well into the minus' and keep that heat constant. Remember it is much easier to cool something than it is to keep something heated. Heat requires much much power. The Apollo craft could simply not sustain a confortable heat level.

Not to mention the fact that they would have died when they were exposed to the solar flares that occured at the same time.

while I dont believe 3 our of 4 conspiracy theories, the remaining 1 leave enough doubt in my mind to give me doubt.

I'm with you Clive.

I've been somewhat fascinated by this conspiracy in the past and there was some lively debate about the whole thing on another forum I freqent. It basically boiled down to two sides: The government orhestrated the entire thing verses It's exactly as G.W. Bush says it is.
Two 'clear cut' positions, much in the same vein as Men did verses Men didn't land on good 'ol Luna.

I don't see why it always has to boil down to only two extreme positions. I guess when it comes to landing on the moon vs. not landing on the moon there are only two options, but with the pentagon thing I tend to fall down the middle where some of the facts are true and others are blown out of proportion. I guess the moral of these stories is we should gather as much fact as we can for ourselves and make our own educated decisions rather than just accepting or denying the given truth. Unfortunately when the "facts" that you are gathering are controlled by a certain entity, you are likely to find that said "facts" will generally lead you in a certain, preordained, direction.

:blink: det: beer:

Just a thought ....

To celebrate the 40 year anniversary in 2009, lobby NASA to run one of their satellites close to where the moon landing took place and take a few shots of the American flag and equipment left behind. If thats too hard, how about focussing the Hubble onto the site to snap a few pics. ;)

Great idea. That would put an end to the guessing wouldn't it? th:

It would help if everyone contacted their Congressmen and Senators to push for the Celebration of Our landing on the Moon. w:

I can understand why they would want to fake a moon landing but why would they fake the Apollo 13 mission where they almost lost the three astronauts? What would be the point of faking a failure? We went.
Why haven’t we gone back? Because we don’t want to spend the money and because we are a people being systematically taught to distrust science.
Did we waste the billions we spent on Apollo in 1969? How much did we spend as a nation in that same year on cosmetics, dog toys, or fast food?
One of the reasons I read Cussler is because all of his stories, all of them, celebrate discovery. Now in the very forum dedicated to him, we are lending credibility to the ravings of conspiracy theorists.
Should we spend our time and money on exploring our own planet? Of course, and one meathod of doing that is to examine it from a different perspective, from space, and to examine her neighbors.
I’ll stand up to be counted with those who believe

Does it really matter in the grand scheme of things? There have been so many cases of deception, unethical behavior, criminal behavior, coverups, finger pointing and just plain bad things done by our government and its officals who really cares? Dr. Cussler is an excellent story teller and his books entertain us for hours on end, we are entertained by books and movies and music and television. So if our government entertained us with our "trip to the moon" why not just go with it for whatever it is. I really don't think any of us want to know everything about everything.

Clive Cussler ... a conspiracy theorist? det:

Interestingly, the Russians who were the first to put man into space and the first to launch a satellite and many other space firsts, never attempted to send a manned space flight to the moon. Did they take their bat and ball and go home after the Americans beat them to the moon?

BulletBob, we are supposed to be a democracy and democracy thrives on openness not secrets and lies. And your apathetic response is also a danger to democracy. Democracy requires knowledge, openness, and a participating populace that cares about what is going on.

tonym5,
I couldn't agree with you more but I did not mean to sound apathetic by my comments. What I was trying to say is that the average citizen lives their lives day to day and really couldn't care less whether we went to the moon or not. Look at the assasination of President Kennedy. It is still being dissecated all these years later and if you listen to the pundits it was the Cubans, it was the CIA, it was anti Castro factions, it was friends of Lyndon B. Johnson, it was the mob or maybe it was the girl scouts. All I'm saying is that seeking and finding the TRUTH is extremely difficult even in this great democracy of ours particularly for the average citizen who sees our government billions or is it trillions dollars in debt.
Where would we be if all of our leaders were honest, ethical people who weren't interested in answering to special interest groups or their constituents.

I saw that Fox movie claiming the Moon Landings were a hoax and frankly didn't believe any of it. My one question to any conspiracy theorist regarding the moon landings is this; if the Americans faked the moon landings then why didn't the Russians blow the whistle on them? Why go to the trouble of faking all the subsequent moon landings? And if they were just fake was the disaster of Apollo 13 a fake as well? And if the landings were just a fake - why didn't the Russians just fake their own landings first? OK so that was more than one question :) But I have looked at the photos, watched the movies and read a lot of articles from both sides of the argument and nothing I have seen or read convinces me that Neil & Buzz were anywhere but the moon. th:

It seems we are getting close to the truth ...

SMART-1 Lunar Space Probe Mission

Thank you for replying BulletBob w: I know most people think along the same lines as they are more involved with themselves than what happens in our country or the world. I am saddened that people care but think they are powerless. I just want to see something that will get everyone mad enough to do something. I myself know that JFK was killed by a group of people who had the power. I have my own theory of course. And the Freedom of Information Act needs to be beefed up because it is under assault by the current occupant in the White House. I am happy to see that a fellow reader like you BulletBob is getting involved with the CC Forum. I have come to love this forum and it's members. We are a great bunch here. Take care, BulletBob

it was fake, if there is no gravity and no air, why did the flag wave?

Well, I can say one thing -- I certainly get a lot of 'brain candy' from this site!
I am downloading the 'google player' now so that I can watch the video.
I was one of those kids 'glued to the TV' in 1969, watching the moon landing.
I will try to keep an open mind because I know that generally, us Americans are pretty much 'spoon fed' by the media, et. al., as to what we are supposed to perceive as the truth. When I came across a newspaper, "The American Free Press" that explained the 911 attack, I was horrified at what I learned. I am still digesting that one, and what it all means to us in the grand scheme of things. Same thing with the Pentagon -- that 'warn't' no 747 crash!

So, for me -- I will watch the video and try to make an educated decision. Somehow, it will be hard for me to take seriously someone with a web-site with that name... <_< , and no, I am not a catholic.

Davey

:unsure: I for one believe we were there. It cost us a BIG bundle of bucks, and we got some rocks and dirt. Do we need more? As for not jumping high, those guys had a few hundred lbs. of equipt. on their backs. The flag waving was an optical illision. It was made to LOOK like it was blowing in the wind. The orbiting space station was made as a way to study the earth and as a jumping off place for further exploration. To me, the shuttle , though a complex bit of technolog, was a dud from day one. The darn thing flys like a brick. Let's come up with a better way to travel to and from the space station. We have been flying aircraft for over 100 yrs., but we still have air disasters. Does that mean we don't really fly? I do believe we were there, and I do believe we need to get someone to spend the money to get the program back on track. But, I also see that it is less dangerous to send a robot than to risk a human life . Just my 2 pennies worth.

Hi All,

As a space enthusiast and amateur astronomer it concerns me when people do not believe that the moon landings occurred. I think it is easy for a person to doubt something that they have never seen firsthand or an event that happened long ago. The sad thing is that many people believe that the holocaust never happened during WWII. So, I think it is important to stand up and say that the moon landing occurred just as history says it did. (I am just glad this topic did not come up at the Cussler Convention that I attended in Denver! :) )

More importantly check out the facts and visit the below sites that debunk the various moon hoax theories:
Redzero's Moonhoax Site

The Bad Astronomy Website

Look at all of the technology we have now!!! A lot of it is because of Science and Engineering education was strong back then because of our Space Program. Where are we now? Resting comfortably while our soldiers are sacrificing their lives. These young soldiers are the same generation that is now not producing enough scientists and engineers because our education system has many problems. We need to bring our soldiers home and teach them to think about the future. The Space Program has lost quite a few men and women in the name of Science and Exploration. Russia lost far more peoples lives in their race with us in the Space Race. Would you believe that the history channel is using William Shatner to teach us how Star Trek influenced some of the many scientists and engineers of the 1960s to come up with ideas for technology. Here are the names of those who have lost their lives because they believed in a vital Space program. Roger Chaffee, Virgil Grissom, Edward White, Judith Resnik, Christa McAuliffe, Ron McNair, Gregory Jarvis, Ellison Onizuka, Michael Smith, Francis Scobee, Rick Husband, William McCool, David Brown, Kalpana Chawla, Michael Anderson, Laurel Clark, Ilan Ramon. And when I went to Cape Canaveral back in November of 2003 I saw the plaques of three or four others who were part of the space program that were killed and few people know of them. Like all great endeavours there are risks.

Because the Flag was made with a wire frame to make it look like it was fluttering in the air.

I did watch the broadcast in July of 1969.. Neil Armstrong's first words - A small step for man, a large leap for mankind - still gives me a lump in my throat.

And coming from having camping experience ... IF the MOON is full, you do not see as many stars. No moon, you will see plenty of stars.

And why would necessarily anyone expect to sees stars in the on the moon - so much reflected light that the moon gives by the sun on earth.

Clive Cussler does send mixed messages. For example, consider the following exerpt:

"An Air Force officer working in oceanographic programs," said Dover, "A little out of your element, aren't you, Major?"
The lines around Pitt's eyes etched into a smile. "No more than all the Navy men who have gone to the moon."
"You have a valid point," Koski conceded.
Iceberg (1)

And then we have this view:

"Selenos 8, our first manned lunar landing mission, is scheduled to launch in seven days," he answered slowly. "We cannot scrap the mission as we did when the Americans upstaged us with their Apollo program. Because our leaders saw no glory in being the second nation to set men on the moon we tucked our tails between our legs and quit. ..."
Cyclops (16)

That confused me for some time, for I was also aware of those lines mentioned in Clive's books. I believe that some time after Clive wrote Cyclops (1986), he came across information and/or people that changed his mind about the Apollo missions. From that point on, he was vocal in his assumptions that the moon landings were faked and alluded to it in Sahara (1992). det:

Clive needs to spend some time over at http://www.badastronomy.com

People love conspiracies, but that doesn't make them true. We were there. I've heard the arguments saying it was faked and I have yet to hear one that worked.

Wish we could get into his head and find out just why he changed his view. hat:

First, there is gravity on the moon. There\'s gravity to some level on every planet known to us. Second, I actually think it\'s sort of funny we\'re even debating this. And then to say we still don\'t have the technology to do it again today? (Remember, we successfully landed a rover on Mars, which is roughly 140 times further than the earth to the moon. If we can do it there, then what\'s to stop us from the moon?)

In regards to the flag, it may have been a wire mesh holding it out. However, if it weren't and if I were one of the astronauts I would have wanted the picture to be of it fluttering so I would have pulled it up and since the moon's gravity is less it would have taken more time for it to flop back down against the pole. That way it gives the illusion that there's wind, and you can also see who's silly flag it is (i.e. USA).

unfortunately im not old enough to of seen the moon landing as it happened, i truely believe man did go to the moon, if we didnt then why on earth (excuse the pun) would they go to the hassle and expense of faking it, to fake a moon landing would of involved hundreds of people if not thousands, the workers who built the apollo and the lems would know if the machines they were making were not capable of doing the job, the people who worked for nasa must of had some idea if they couldnt put man on the moon, yes it cost billions and from most points of view, what for? a handfull of rocks and some dust? i could go to the beach or a quarry and get some of both but they are just ordinary rocks and dust, the ones from the moon are from another world, worth ever penny spent getting them.

a question nobody ever brings up, there are programs and films saying they faked the moon landing, even the link in one message here takes us to a film saying about faking the landing, it even has clips saying the record button was accidently on when they were changing "scene" how do we know these dlips were not faked for these programs??? if they say it was so easy to fake the landing then its got to be even easier to fake the clips of them "faking the landing".

why does it bother so many people that they have to keep on about it so much, without casting any stones as i believe people have a right to believe what they want, there seems to be almost as much controversy over if we really went to the moon as ther is over whether god really exists, i personally dont believe in god as i am not religious but i have great friends who do and i wouldnt dream of telling them they are wrong and i am right because who knows for definate, there isnt any proof either way, same as i truely believe we went to the moon and some of my great friends and even my fiance dont, some dont know either way and want to wait till we have proof by seeing the descent stage of a lem or a rover left behind but they know how passionately i believe in it and they wouldnt dream of saying im wrong, to quote president kennedy "we choose to go to the moon and do the other things not because they are easy but because they are hard" if it was so easy to go then ever joe public round the world would of gone by now, it was hard and it was our right as mankind to prove that no matter how hard we could overcome it.

another question springs to mind, if it was a hoax and the astronauts knew then would they really of wanted to risk their lives just to go into low earth orbit? i dont think they would because they were test pilots and to them the challenge is testing something to its limits safely, to them the ultimate goal would of been to test apollo all the way and then to do something nobody else had done, test a flying machine on another world and set foot on it, would harrison "jack" schmitt, the first and only civillian scientist to walk on the moon, of wanted to go into low earth orbit or just a studio and fake prospecting another world witht the chance of finding something amazing? again i personally dont think he would.

im sorry for going on but the moon and the apollo landings have been the thing of dreams for me and i would give anything to of been on apollo 8 (which was the first to fly round the moon) and been one of the first, along with frank boorman, jim lovell and bill anders, to see an earthrise or to of been in neil armstrong's suit when he stepped onto the moon first or for that matter any of the moon walker's suits, to of been a part of the greatest adventure in history to of walked on the moon! how could anything ever compare to that.

i know forever there will be people saying it was a hoax but there will also be people saying it was for real and i believe everyone has the right to choose what they believe.

if you made it this far thank you for reading my beliefs i appreciate it and once again i appologise for going off on one.

ben