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Title: HMAS Sydney found!!!!
Description: At last...


Andy in West Oz - March 16, 2008 10:37 PM (GMT)
At last the families know where their fathers, sons, brothers and uncles rest. At last...this is a momentous day for Australia.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23387660-2,00.html

THE wreckage of HMAS Sydney, sunk off the West Australian coast during World War II, has been found, Prime Minister Kevin Rudd announced today.

The Sydney's entire crew of 645 went down with the ship in the Indian Ocean and its location has been a mystery for 66 years.

The wreckage of a German ship - the merchant raider Kormoran - believed to have sunk the Australian warship was found at the weekend in waters about 800 kilometres north of Perth.

It's believed both sites will be protected as war graves.

More to follow shortly

BIG RED - March 16, 2008 10:45 PM (GMT)
My hat's off to the people involved in this discovery. Outstanding job. Finally, the Australians can have closure.

DirkPitt - March 16, 2008 11:38 PM (GMT)
How quickly did this unfold?? WOW! I'm speechless!

BIG RED - March 16, 2008 11:41 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (DirkPitt @ Mar 16 2008, 11:38 PM)
How quickly did this unfold?? WOW! I'm speechless!

I'm as suprised as you are Dirk. The search team must have been either lucky or the data and research they had available must have been on the ball.

DirkPitt - March 16, 2008 11:48 PM (GMT)
HMAS Sydney (II) Discovered
Joint Statement
David Mearns - Search Director, The Finding Sydney Foundation
Lieutenant John Perryman, RANR – Official Observer

At 10:03 (AWDT) on Sunday 16 March 2008, a small dark shape was detected coming into view on the starboard side of our SM30 side scan sonar display. In an otherwise featureless seabed. David Mearns soon classified this contact as being man-made, displaying all the characteristics of a major shipwreck. Within minutes a debris field came into view confirming this belief.

The wreck was measured and its position plotted in relation to the wreck of Kormoran and what is firmly believed to be the battle site. Our target was located approximately 10.5 nautical miles to the south-east of the battle site and 12.2 nautical miles from Kormoran. We soon concluded that the modified Leander class cruiser, HMAS Sydney (II), sunk with all hands on 19 November 1941, had been found in 2,468 metres of water. Her position was recorded as being 26° 14’ 37” S 111° 13’ 03” E.

As with the Kormoran find, news of this discovery was promptly communicated to the Finding Sydney Foundation for on-forwarding to the appropriate shore authorities. News of our discovery, only an hour-following the Prime Minister’s announcement concerning the discovery of Kormoran, was received with great emotion and jubilation by The Finding Sydney Chairman, Ted Graham.

With a sense of euphoria onboard we immediately began to make plans to carry out several high resolution sonar passes over Sydney’s wreck. The first of these runs commenced at 18:35 using a 3 kilometer swathe on the SM30 side scan sonar. This run gave us the ability to better measure the wreck and some of the larger pieces of wreckage in the debris field. The run was completed at 18:47.

A second high resolution pass with the SM30 set to operate a 1500 meter swathe began at 23:00 and produced a good image of the wreck lying on the seabed displaying a clear acoustic shadow. This pass also provided an indication that part of Sydney, possibly her bow, may have broken away from her as she limped away causing her to sink. This is a tentative assessment which will have to be confirmed using a suitably equipped ROV with cameras.

The dimensions of the wreck combined with its position in relation to the wreck of Kormoran and the scene of action leave me in no doubt that this is the wreck of Sydney. During the next few days further high resolution runs will be conducted over her wreck and commemorative services will be held for the crews of both Sydney and Kormoran.

This has been a monumental day and one which I hope will bring some comfort to the relatives of those lost in her.

user posted image

Above Photograph - David & John: A moment of delight shared by Search Director, David Mearns and Lieutenant John Perryman, RANR knowing that the wreck of Sydney had been found ending 67 years of uncertainty about her final resting place.

DirkPitt - March 16, 2008 11:51 PM (GMT)
user posted image

Above Photograph - Sydney Hull: This sonar image is a magnification of just the main hull from the third sonar track. The acoustic shadow to the left of the hull is used to help identify structures that have height. For example we believe that the tallest shadow could be being caused by Sydney’s superstructure. Careful analysis and measurements of the hull length suggest that while the hull is sitting upright on the seabed and is largely intact, a portion of the bow could well have broken away and that this event was the trigger that finally caused Sydney to sink.

DirkPitt - March 16, 2008 11:57 PM (GMT)
Glenys McDonald - Director, The Finding Sydney Foundation (Observer)

I woke with a headache this morning. I wanted to be in the survey room between 8am and noon as that was when we thought Sydney would appear on our screens on this track line. The Williamson crew had been tracking a tiny debris trail from the battle area and indications were that this search line would be successful.

At exactly 10:03 am a large piece of wreck unfolded on the screen with a small associated debris field. The surrounding geology was dead flat sandy bottom. There she lay, looking proud and poignant. HMAS Sydney had been found.

John Perryman and I had become adept students in reading the data over the past couple of weeks and we, like David Mearns and the Williamson and Associates crew, knew that this was what we had been looking for. This was the ship that had taken the hopes and dreams of 645 families to the bottom of the ocean.

Here in a relatively small area of ocean we located one ship suffering a catastrophic explosion, a battle site, a small debris trail, and another ship approximately ten nautical miles away sitting proudly on the bottom, all as described by the eye witnesses to this action between HSK Kormoran and HMAS Sydney.

There was jubilation from all, and a few tears from me. David, John and I were thrilled. The Geosounder crew, who had become part of this great project, joined with the Williamson team shaking hands. I thanked the crew and Williamsons on behalf of FSF, and Geoff led a cheer for me which was nice. I just wished that Ted and the other Finding Sydney Foundation Directors were standing beside me.

David then rang Patrick and Ted. I spoke to Ted, and this six foot seven inch giant of a man was overcome. We unashamedly cried together and he asked me if I was certain. I am.

Even though we deserve our moment of jubilation after such a long and difficult journey to this moment in time, we have not forgotten that this was where we lost our men. I went up to the back deck and leant over the railing and cried and gave thanks.

I believe this wreck will bring closure. She sits almost proudly on the bottom. If Sydney had blown like Kormoran there would be little sense of closure, but here in such a large piece and in a depth of water where we will shortly activate the ROV part of the program, we will give the kind of images required for everyone to finally be at peace with this sad story.

We turned the ship around and by 18:35 we were back on site and doing a smaller swath run. The plan is to do a few more of these from different angles before changing the fish over to the SM60: another long night ahead before the official announcement tomorrow.

Andy in West Oz - March 17, 2008 12:11 AM (GMT)
They've always said that finding the Kormoran would provide the perfect datum from which to narrow down Sydney's location. This is because of the accounts of the German survivors after they scuttled Kormoran. They said they saw the glow of the burning Sydney on the horizon to the SW. The debris field found and deduced to be the site of the battle confirmed this as it was orientated NNE/SSW.

Once Kormoran was found, assuming the research was correct, it was only a matter of time but I think we're all surprised at just how quickly this has happened. After 66+ years of wondering...

beer:

DirkPitt - March 17, 2008 12:24 AM (GMT)
In checking my books on HMAS Sydney, the assumed battle site fits right in with what the latest search team has found. And the Sydney was found in the direction that witnesses confirmed.

My question is ; why didn't the Australian Navy search and locate the Sydney? <_<

Andy in West Oz - March 17, 2008 12:39 AM (GMT)
Who knows, Tony? It's bizarre really. I suspect they got annoyed with all of the conspiracy theories and couldn't get a straight answer.

beer:

DirkPitt - March 17, 2008 01:17 AM (GMT)
I found this conspiracy theory interesting. I read a review for a book that mentioned it ;

A Japanese submarine was with the Kormoran at the time Sydney stumbled upon them.

The submarine dealt the deadly blow to Sydney whilst the Sydney was preoccupied with the Kormoran.

The Japanese made sure there were no survivors from the Sydney because Australia and Japan were not at war at that time.

The Australian government could not reveal the Japanese were involved because it would have meant declaring war.

The reason war could not be declared was because a few weeks later, the Pearl Harbor "surprise attack" had the green light from Roosevelt/Churchhill for the attack to be allowed to happen.

If Australia had declared war on Japan before Pearl Harbor, the Japanese battle fleet enroute to Pearl Harbor was more than likely to receive orders to abort due to a heightened alert.

The whole Sydney tragedy was then covered up so that the USA could be brought into WW2 to ensure defeat of Germany and Japan.

It was all a matter of national security you see.

BIG RED - March 17, 2008 01:58 AM (GMT)
Whoever came up with that tripe needs to be put in a padded room.

DirkPitt - March 17, 2008 02:41 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (BIG RED @ Mar 17 2008, 09:58 AM)
Whoever came up with that tripe needs to be put in a padded room.

:lol:

Here's the guy. He latched one of the conspiracy theories and fictionalized it;


Enduring Deception
By Brett Manning
Price: AU$24.95
ISBN: 0-646-49940-8
Number of Pages: 320

user posted image


It is November 1941, and while war rages in Europe, a chance encounter in far away Australia for the warship HMAS Sydney is about to jeopardise the fate of the free world.
US Special Agent Graham Palmer, newly arrived in a strange land down under, knows only too well thegravity of his mission - a mission to protect a great secret, regardless of the cost. But no one can foresee the price of his success, a price to be paid by ordinary men that will surely demand an Enduring Deception.
Enduring Deception is the first fictionalised account of Australia’s greatest unsolved maritime mystery, the loss of HMAS Sydney II with all 645 crew in a battle with the German merchant raider the Kormoran in 1941.
"Manning revisits a couple of popular 'conspiracy theories' and creates a few of his own to paint a scenario as disturbing as it is enthralling."
Gary Warner - Geraldton Guardian Newspaper - 16 March 2005

Empress - March 17, 2008 03:16 AM (GMT)
I'm speechless in the most fantastic way!!!!

I agree, put that guy in a padded room!

loren1 - March 17, 2008 01:01 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Empress @ Mar 16 2008, 11:16 PM)
I'm speechless in the most fantastic way!!!!

I agree, put that guy in a padded room!

What more can anyone say? The guy is way out in space. I'm very happy for the families of the men lost, that they now know where there loved ones are. Another mystery solved. th: t:

oswalder - March 18, 2008 05:44 PM (GMT)
Any plans for diving on the wreck or recovery of bodies/artifacts etc? Maybe it's too deep or too sacred?

DirkPitt - March 18, 2008 09:52 PM (GMT)

'Stunning' photos of HMAS Sydney tipped

Braden Quartermaine in Geraldton

March 19, 2008 05:25am
THE first images of HMAS Sydney in 67 years are expected to be stunning when they are revealed to the world next week.

Unlike the wreck of German raider Kormoran, which exploded into pieces during the ferocious 1941 battle, the tomb of the 645 Australians has remained almost entirely together and it is sitting upright on the seabed.

People on the search vessel Geosounder have described the Sydney as "sitting proudly''.

Wreck-hunter David Mearns and the search crew are expected to return to Geraldton port on Thursday, before picking up more equipment and heading back out to sea two or three days later.
Special remote operating vehicles will descend the more than 2km depths to take footage of both wrecks.

Author and historian Glenys McDonald, a director of the Finding Sydney Foundation
who is on the search vessel, said the Sydney was surrounded by a flat, sandy seabed.

"There she lay, looking proud and poignant,'' Ms McDonald said.

"This was the ship that had taken the hopes and dreams of 645 families to the bottom of the ocean.

"Here in a relatively small area of ocean we located one ship suffering a catastrophic explosion, a battle site, a small debris trail, and another ship approximately ten nautical miles away sitting proudly on the bottom.

"It was all as described by the eye witnesses to this action between HSK Kormoran and HMAS Sydney.

"I went up to the back deck and leant over the railing and cried and gave thanks.''

Ms McDonald said the fact the Sydney was intact would help bring closure to the families of the sailors.

"If Sydney had blown like Kormoran there would be little sense of closure, but here in such a large piece and in a depth of water where we will shortly activate the ROV part of the program, we will give the kind of images required for everyone to finally be at peace with this sad story,'' she said.

The underwater pictures will be part of the documentary The Hunt for HMAS Sydney, which will be rushed onto television screens on April 1.

To be screened on ABC1, it will show the behind the scenes story as Mr Mearns completes his ultimate test.

“Our biggest challenge is to complete the film quickly so Australians can watch it now that the ship has been found,” Electric Pictures executive producer Andrew Ogilvie said

http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21...79-2761,00.html

BIG RED - March 18, 2008 09:55 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (oswalder @ Mar 18 2008, 05:44 PM)
Any plans for diving on the wreck or recovery of bodies/artifacts etc?  Maybe it's too deep or too sacred?

No, David Mearns is going to go back out to the sites and will be deploying an ROV to survey both wrecks. As for recovering artefacts, that seems highly unlikely. The Prime Minister and the RAN have stated both Sydney and Kormoran will be left untouched and declared war graves.

EDIT: Next week for pics huh? I think I can wait that long.

oswalder - March 19, 2008 09:42 PM (GMT)
ROV pictures will be enough, I don't think they need to recover anything. Honor the dead and their families by looking but not touching. Thanks, Big Red!

DirkPitt - March 29, 2008 11:07 AM (GMT)
BIG RED,


After your comments about the conspiracy theory, I assumed you were referring to the "The surprise Pearl Harbor attack was allowed to happen by Roosevelt in order to ring America into the war"

So, I started investigating that aspect of the theory and this is what I found ;

Joseph Leib, a former New Deal bureaucrat and retired newspaper correspondent, wrote an article which appeared in Hustler magazine, "Pearl Harbor: The Story the Rest of the Media Won't Tell," in which he claimed that his friend, Secretary of State Hull, had confided to him on 29 November 1941 that J. Edgar Hoover and FDR knew that the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor withing a few days, and that the President, over Hull's strident objections, was going to let this happen as a way to get the country into war. Hull's dilemma was that he could not reveal this openly to the press, since the White House would simply denounce him, and no one would believe him. He turned over to Lieb a document containing a transcript of Japanese radio intercepts which supposedly detailed the Pearl Harbor plan, making the reporter promise never to reveal the source. Leib rushed the story, minus the identification of Hull, to the United Press bureau, which refused to run it since it was so incredulous. But Leib did manage to persuade UP's cable editor, Harry Frantz, to transmit it on the foreign cable. Although the story managed somehow to get garbled in transmission, it did create a front-page banner headline in the Sunday, 30 November, Honolulu Advertiser: JAPANESE MAY STRIKE OVER WEEKEND!

Below is the actual newspaper on display at this museum;

http://www.mhaam.org/visit%20and%20tour/tour_museum.htm

BIG RED - March 30, 2008 10:45 PM (GMT)
Actually I was referrring to the theory that a Japanese sub that sank the Sydney while she was busy slugging it out with the Kormoran. Nevertheless, the information you provided above was quite the eye opener. Thanks for sharing.

DirkPitt - March 31, 2008 01:13 AM (GMT)
ahhh!

ok, that part of it came from a book titled : WHO SANK THE SYDNEY by Michael Montgomery (son of Sydney's navigation officer)

review ;

This exceptionally well written book gives an exceptional account of the action that took place. But Mr Montgomery does place a lot of emphasis on the Australian cruiser HMAS SYDNEY. Further to that, the book leans very heavily on the fact that the Australian warship was not sunk by HSK KORMORAN but by Japanese submarines. Of course, this was a great probability, as even Japan boasted that they were involved in the sinking of the SYDNEY through their propaganda mentioned on both radio and in newspapers. Mr Montgomery's claim is further backed up because Australia and Great Britain both had knowledge of this.

The book "Who Sank The Sydney?" contained many references to the action, and many more that would back up his claim of a submarine sinking. The main thing worth asking regarding many of these references, is 'how reliable is this documented evidence' that Mr Montgomery presents to us. But, and this is a big but. Much of this evidence contained in this book could very well be a probability. You can see that Michael Montgomery asking us in the book, 'what is contained in the documented evidence that the Australian government will not release?' Because we do not know the real truth behind the mystery, the submarine theory is possible, but basing research on Japanese aircraft over Townsville and Geraldton, and drawings by one of the German survivors of caves near Carnarvon does not justify the case of a Japanese submarine sinking HMAS SYDNEY.

DirkPitt - April 3, 2008 03:14 PM (GMT)
Reg's joy turned to heartbreak


user posted image

A photo from 1941 shows the cave where shipwrecked Germans from the Kormoran sheltered, showing stores and lifeboat oars.

When Reg Anderson heard shipwrecked sailors had landed on the coast north of Carnarvon, he was possibly the most excited man in town.

His younger brother Ron was a sailor on HMAS Sydney.

An RAAF pilot searching for Sydney survivors had reported seeing two beached lifeboats 130km north of the town.

Word spread like wildfire around Carnarvon that Australian sailors had been found. But Reg's hopes of a fairytale family reunion were dashed - the shipwrecked sailors were all Germans.

And unbeknown to Reg, Ron was already dead.

This week extraordinary photographs of the landing places of the shipwrecked sailors from the German warship Kormoran surfaced at the POST.

Relatives believe they were taken by Reg. They also believe he drove the police sergeant, Stan Anderson (no relation), to the site to rescue people they expected to be Australian sailors, only to discover they were all Germans.

The photographs show two quite different lifeboats and the cave where the Germans lived after coming ashore from their epic open-boat journey of more than 200 nautical miles.

Stores can be seen in the cave, and oars from the lifeboat against the rocks.

The Germans later said that buried in the cave was a Leica camera and film with a full record of the battle between the Kormoran and the Sydney, in which both ships sank.

The story was told by Reg's daughter, Lynette McCorry, who was born a few years later but learned of the details through family stories.

Reg owned three businesses in Carnarvon, including a taxi. He was only too willing to oblige when the police commandeered his taxi for the trip north, she said.

The Sydney lost all 645 sailors, but 217 of Kormoran's crew of 399 survived in lifeboats and liferafts.

Of these, 103 reached land north of Carnarvon at separate landfalls. Others were picked up at sea by Allied ships.

Reg's taxi, with police and a doctor, led the rescue convoy of three trucks, which brought the Germans back to Carnarvon.

They found that the Germans were almost out of food, had killed a sheep from Quobba Station and corralled others for future supplies.

Meanwhile the citizens of Carnarvon prepared a big welcome for the expected Australians, making sandwiches and preparing beds and accommodation.

They were shocked to see that the survivors were the enemy, but in typical country fashion, graciously handed over the food and mattresses anyway for the prisoners, who were crammed into the Carnarvon jail.

- By Bret Christian


Secret British papers hold the key


user posted image
user posted image

Rare photos of two of the German lifeboats on the beach north of Carnarvon. The Kormoran was known to have seized lifeboats from Allied freighters she sank.

An inquiry into the sinking of HMAS Sydney could finally achieve genuine results, provided secret files in Britain are unlocked, says Shenton Park author Greg Bathgate.

The recently announced public inquiry conducted by retired judge Terrence Cole would need very wide terms of reference, he said.

"It is, therefore, crucial that the signals, which are certain to have been either transmitted by the Sydney before, during, or after the battle, are located and made available to the inquiry," said Mr Bathgate.

"Except for the brief distress messages received in Geraldton after the battle and relayed by Squadron Leader Cooper to the RAAF in Perth, archival searches for this material have, in the past, proved fruitless.

"The government should therefore seek the cooperation of the British government, the other party involved in the Sydney's fateful voyage, because the intelligence services at that time (FECB in Singapore and GCCS in London) were likely to have been conscious of the Sydney's plight."

He said all intelligence reports and decrypted intercepts remain embargoed in British files.

"These secret files may well reveal the vital content of Sydney's W/T signals, including the conduct of the battle and whether the Kormoran had surrendered to lure the Sydney closer," he said.

"Moreover, it may be possible to determine Kormoran captain Theodor Detmers's motives and as a result, the veracity of the German story."

Mr Bathgate's book, HMAS Sydney 1941 - The Analysis, canvasses the intrigue of the intelligence services in considerable detail. - By Bret Christian


Navy misled Curtin on Sydney, says author




A wartime Cabinet minute talks of an official inquiry into the Sydney sinking.

A government announcement this week confirmed that the Royal Australian Navy had misled wartime Prime Minister John Curtin about an inquiry into the sinking of HMAS Sydney, says author John Samuels.

"The first inquiry was a manufactured lie," says Mr Samuels, whose book on the Sydney, Somewhere Below, is one of 28 published about the ship.

This week Acting Prime Minister Julia Gillard announced that a Commission of Inquiry into the loss of the Sydney would be held following the discovery of the wreck of the ship last month.

"The War Council was told that an inquiry had taken place and this is noted in the minutes and in a pencilled note at the foot of the agenda notes taken by the Deputy Prime Minister," said Mr Samuels, who has searched the navy's HMAS Sydney files in Canberra.

He said there had been only one full inquiry into the loss of the Sydney, which was held in 1998 way too long after the event to determine a balanced truth.

"Mr Curtin chaired the meeting early in 1942 when the head of the navy stated that the inquiry was completed," he said.

"There was a briefing of the navy's conclusions. However, there is not one shred of evidence that this official inquiry ever took place and, in short, it can't have for a very good reason.

"The officers who would have attended an inquiry were not collectively available in any one given place at the time to hold one.

"An official inquiry would have also, in this case, required the evidence of the RAAF, whose own records for the period show clearly they were never summoned to contribute to any inquiry into the Sydney's demise, and let's not forget the RAAF had a very clear vested interest in any inquiry as there were six RAAF crew on board the warship.

"The official inquiry, the head of navy told the Prime Minister and the War Cabinet, never occurred. Where was it held? Who was there? Where is even one page of a long-mothballed report of the Board of Inquiry?

"Even an inquiry held in the utmost secrecy of the day, while the nation was at war, required many ancillary people to hold it. Stenographers, typists, aids and even those to bring the tea and biscuits...where are they?

"In all these decades past, not one person has ever come forward to say they know an inquiry was held because they were there!

"Not a soul came forward to the parliamentary inquiry to say that they were never privy to what went on behind closed doors but they could vouch for the fact that it took place because they were handing out the tea and biscuits!

"There remains not one shred of evidence either that any member of the Australian War Cabinet, including Mr Curtin, ever saw a copy of the RAN official inquiry."

Minutes of the War Cabinet meeting show the dire peril Australia faced at the time.

The Japanese were attacking Pacific islands, New Guinea and Indonesia.

A summary of the circumstances of the loss of the Sydney and its 645 sailors occupied a mere ten lines.

"The War Cabinet simply had much more on its mind and had no reason to think the navy didn't have everything in hand," Mr Samuels said.

"It should never be forgotten either that John Curtin, himself a great patriot, was so shattered by the loss of the Sydney and her company that he spent many hours of the days following her demise overwhelmingly depressed and consulting his friend, the Governor General, as to how to tell the relatives and the nation that the Sydney was lost without a soul to tell the real story."

-Bret Christian

oswalder - April 3, 2008 06:11 PM (GMT)
Amazing articles!

BIG RED - April 3, 2008 11:39 PM (GMT)
The first pictures of Sydney's wreckage are up at the "Finding Sydney" site.

Click here.

DirkPitt - April 3, 2008 11:54 PM (GMT)
Awesome pics!


Andy in West Oz - April 4, 2008 12:02 AM (GMT)
I can't get over the clarity of the pics.

http://presspass.findingsydney.com/blogs/s...april-2008.aspx

beer:

BIG RED - April 4, 2008 10:14 PM (GMT)
The site now has video footage of the wreck taken by the ROV.

DirkPitt - April 5, 2008 04:43 AM (GMT)
Thanks for that link, BIG RED

Below is the story in today's main West Australian newspaper ;


Battered Sydney pictures tell a tale but add a riddle

5th April 2008, 10:00 WST


Dramatic pictures of HMAS Sydney wreck bear testament to its ferocious battle with the German raider Kormoran, with massive damage from shell and torpedo hits seen for the first time since the battle 66 years ago.

But the apparent absence of lifeboats on the wreck has again fuelled conspiracy theories, with some family members of the Sydney’s dead claiming the pictures give weight to the idea that the Australians may have abandoned ship before it went down.

The Finding Sydney Foundation team yesterday released the first pictures of the wreck, lying almost 2.5km deep off Shark Bay. A special underwater robot took the pictures.

Early analysis of the damage by experts aboard the search vessel SV Geosounder tallied with reports from German survivors of the battle that the Sydney was hit hard around the bridge area, probably at close range.

The bow of the ship was missing, suggesting German survivors had not lied when they told their Australian captors the Kormoran had torpedoed the Sydney in that area.

The search team also noted the absence of any of the ship’s lifeboats.

South Australian Bob Honor, whose father Charles was a telegraphist aboard the Sydney, said the fact there were no lifeboats suggested some of the 645 Australian crew may have survived the initial battle.

Mr Honor questioned why no Australian survivors or even bodies of seamen had been found during the extensive search after the battle.

Some have suggested that the Kormoran or even a Japanese submarine mighty have machinegunned Australian survivors in the water after they abandoned ship — claims dismissed by German survivors.

The commanding officer at HMAS Stirling naval base, Capt. Steve Davies, said the lifeboats would probably have been destroyed as the Sydney was hit by shellfire at close range.

“I would expect that they would have been destroyed . . . you can see from the damage to the ship that there was a hail of gunfire across the decks which probably would have destroyed those lifeboats in the action,” Capt. Davies said.

The head of the military history section at the Australian War Memorial in Canberra, Ashley Ekins, said it was far too early to draw any conclusions from the images. Mr Ekins said the lifeboats could have ripped away and disintegrated as the ship sank or they could simply have rotted.

Mr Honor said his father would have been stationed on the bridge or around the upper superstructure of the ship and looking at the shell hits in that area made him shudder.

He hoped his father had been killed instantly by one of the hits.

Perth woman Victoria Matsen, 84, whose husband, Arthur Wood, was aboard the Sydney, said the images gave her some closure.

The Sydney engaged the Kormoran, disguised as a merchant vessel, at close range on November 19, 1941.

Sceptics have questioned how the Sydney could have been sunk by the lightly armed Kormoran, which was also lost but 317 crew survived. More pictures of the Sydney will be taken next week. The battle site and the Kormoran will also be photographed.

NICK BUTTERLY and YASMINE PHILLIPS

http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?Men...ContentID=66385


Andy in West Oz - April 5, 2008 10:45 AM (GMT)
The Kormoran should not be considered a lightly armed ship - it certainly wasn't.

beer:

divedeep - April 6, 2008 11:21 AM (GMT)
Question. Did the bow come of the Sydney before or after it sank? Plus I cannot see any massive explosion from the pictures. Survivors? you would think so.

Andy in West Oz - April 6, 2008 12:53 PM (GMT)
Hi mate

They're saying the bow tearing away after the torpedo hit is ultimately what sank Sydney. She seems to have stayed afloat while limping away but then suffered a structural failure in the bows due to the torpedo.

beer:

BIG RED - April 6, 2008 02:54 PM (GMT)
Sort of like Bismarck's stern.

DirkPitt - April 7, 2008 04:52 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (divedeep @ Apr 6 2008, 07:21 PM)
Question. Did the bow come of the Sydney before or after it sank? Plus I cannot see any massive explosion from  the pictures. Survivors? you would think so.


Photograph: Sydney’s inverted bow was our first major discovery within the debris field.

This from the search director, David Mearns ;

The general absence of twisted and torn hull plating in the main debris field tells me that it is probable Sydney did not suffer any large explosion in her bow. It seems increasingly likely that Sydney’s bow, severely damaged and weakened by the torpedo strike, broke away with Sydney pointed on a heading of 140 degrees, and still possibly underway. All the evidence indicates that the weather and sea conditions worsened on the evening of November 19th and rough seas may have played a factor in Sydney losing her bow and finally sinking. A number of other WWII ships were torpedoed in the bow like Sydney but none lost their bows, nor sank. Desperately unlucky, Sydney appears to be the first.


Photograph: Sydney’s inverted bow was our first major discovery within the debris field.

DirkPitt - April 7, 2008 04:54 AM (GMT)

Photograph: Without doubt the most chilling find in the debris field was the presence of five of Sydney’s life boats. Note Sydney’s official badge mounted on their bows.

DirkPitt - April 7, 2008 04:55 AM (GMT)

Photograph: One of Sydney’s 21-inch quadruple torpedo tubes lying upside down on the sea bed. Two torpedoes remain in their tubes.

Andy in West Oz - April 7, 2008 06:16 AM (GMT)
http://presspass.findingsydney.com/blogs/s...ily-report.aspx

What is perhaps as amazing as finally finding the ship itself is the remarkable finds the ROV is filming. Truly phenomenal.

beer:

DirkPitt - April 8, 2008 05:39 PM (GMT)
At the end of this 3 minute video, you can see how the Kormoran hid their guns ;

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200804/r239081_966808.asx




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