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Title: Illogical
Description: Things that doesn't work in the books


(R) - October 7, 2004 08:32 PM (GMT)

One of the things that I really like I like about Cusslers books, is that he has obviously put a lot of effort in research. Sometimes it's hard to tell the line between fact and fiction.

But I've encountered a couple of disturbing problems:

In Atlantis Found, the coming cataclysm would be triggered by an enormous chunk of ice that would be cut loose from the Antarctica, and drift up north and cause the whole earth to start wobble.
That is not possible, because the mass of the ice would be filled with the same mass of water as soon as it moved an inch. You could move all the icebergs in the world to a single spot, and still the earth's center of gravity wouldn't change.

In Blue Gold, Fransesca has invented an eternal machine. Think about it. The desalting process generates heat, even more than what it takes to run the process itself. Plus you can put the salt back in the water to start all over again.

What do you say about that?

DirkPitt - October 7, 2004 09:20 PM (GMT)
Interesting topic ...

Atlantis Found

QUOTE
"And if the Ross Ice Shelf were suddenly to detach itself from the rest of the
continent and drift out to sea?" Pitt put to Friend, leaving the question hang.
Friend's face turned grim. "It's an event we've already considered. A simulation
shows that a drastic movement by the Shelf would cause an imbalance broad enough to
trigger a sudden shift of Earth's crust."
"What do you mean by drastic movement?"
"Our simulation demonstrated that should the entire ice shelf break away and drift
sixty miles to sea, its relocated mass would increase Earth's wobble enough to trigger a
pole shift."


I'm wondering if Cussler is referring to the part of the ice shelf that would remain above sea level. Obviously the vast bulk of the iceberg which is underwater would be displaced by water, but the remainder above might have an effect on the Earth's stability <_<

(R) - October 8, 2004 05:42 PM (GMT)

QUOTE
I'm wondering if Cussler is referring to the part of the ice shelf that would remain above sea level. Obviously the vast bulk of the iceberg which is underwater would be displaced by water, but the remainder above might have an effect on the Earth's stability  <_<


No, the the heavier the iceberg is, the deeper it sinks, and displaces more water.
That's how a boat made of iron can stay afloat. The mass of the displaced water is the same as the mass of what's floating in it.

It's a logical mistake by our favourite author.. b:

Nick Kismet - October 8, 2004 07:30 PM (GMT)
I wonder if you're not being too quick to dismiss this idea. Water displacement may be a known factor, but there are other dynamic effects going on in the scenario described.
The Ross Shelf is suspended above the sea, not floating in it, so the displacement would represent a violent introduction of a sizeable mass into a body of water. A block of ice floating in a bathtub wouldn't change the mass of the water if it moved, but drop the same block in and you're going to see some activity.
I'm still doing research on this, but according to NASA, ice and water shifts are actually the main factor affecting the Earth's wobble. Even changing weather patterns due to global warming have an effect, though gradual.
The science may be tweaked a little for the sake of drama, but I'd hardly call it a mistake.

Nick Kismet - October 8, 2004 07:49 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (® @ Oct 7 2004, 08:32 PM)
In Blue Gold, Fransesca has invented an eternal machine. Think about it. The desalting process generates heat, even more than what it takes to run the process itself. Plus you can put the salt back in the water to start all over again.


Now on this one, my memory about the book is a little hazy. I don't remember exactly how the desalination machines worked, but I can say that there are a lot of outside factors involved to supply energy to the equation, which for my money shoots down the "eternal machine" concept.
Those factors specifically are the ocean and the sun, which together form the most massive, untapped energy resource on the planet. There is a lot of information about this in a litte tome called "The Millennial Project--How to Colonize the Galaxy in 8 Easy Steps" by Marshall Savage, and I wholeheartedly recommend everyone read this, for giggles if nothing else.
But I digress--the production of waste heat is almost constant both in nature and industry. Everything, including our own metabolic process, creates heat, most of which is simply wasted, and thanks to entropy, eventually goes away. If there was a way to harness all that energy and put it back into the system, you would certainly approach perpetual motion (but of course, there is still a constant supply of energy from the sun, which is itself a finite resource albeit one with a life span of billions of years)
As to resalinating however--and again, I can't remember the details of the machine--I'd have to say that eventually you would see an increase in salinity that would kill off oxygen generating sea-life and spell the end of life on Earth. The machine might be able to keep going, but there'd be no one left to use it.

And lest I come off as a know it all, I welcome more information on this. Everything I know, I learned from reading Dirk Pitt novels, so I'm hardly an authority.

MrKABC - October 19, 2004 09:32 PM (GMT)
I'll chime in with the "matter transporter" featured in TO. That had a little too much "beam me up Scotty" in it.

What about the magnetohydrodynamic engine concept?

Helene Noelle - October 30, 2004 12:39 AM (GMT)
Sounds like you are referring to Dr. Elmore Egan's creatons in Valhalla Rising.

Thought the leather case filling with was cool - yes, Clive Cussler has a fantastic imagination. But then, what if...

Nick Kismet - October 30, 2004 02:04 AM (GMT)
Again....teleportation of particulate matter HAS been done. All Dr Cussler is doing is taking it to its logical next step. There's another really good novel about this called "The Einstein Papers" by, umm...what's that guys name?

Marribiuz - October 30, 2004 07:06 AM (GMT)
I am not sure if particulate matter has been teleported. If it has, and you know an online resource telling about it, please post it as this is an area of interest for me. (I know, geek written all over me)

I know that teleportation is being achieved with laser beams and quantum teleportation with squeezed light, but I have not heard of the teleportation of matter (particulate or not) being succesfully done. I know there is research team in Switzerland attempting to teleport an atom, which of course would be the foundation of teleporting matter and mass.

Cheerio!

Nick Kismet - October 30, 2004 10:37 AM (GMT)
Your statement is more accurate than mine. it was my understanding that sub atomic particles had been 'teleported,' but it looks like the most recent experiments involved a 64% quantum teleportation of dim light.

Even so, these experiments demonstrate that its not a question of "if" but of "when."

Marribiuz - October 30, 2004 03:07 PM (GMT)
QUOTE
Even so, these experiments demonstrate that its not a question of "if" but of "when."


True.

Though i think there is a definite limit to what can or cannot be teleported. I beleive one day we will see the matter/mass being teleported. Just imagine what this can do for shipment of goods etc. However i dont think technology can support living matter through the teleportation process, thus anything living can never be teleported so that it is still living once teleported somewhere else.

(I know, this had nothing to do with your question...Sorry) :lol:

oswalder - October 30, 2004 03:50 PM (GMT)
I was really hoping that the oil was being spontaneously created by some form of bacteria or something that was lining the inside of the case. That would be a much more scientifically feasible solution than teleporting it from a barrel. Especially because it was being touted as an invention that could support an engine "forever." (If I'm wrong about the "forever" please let me know with a page #). This may be completely off bae but I was really dissappointed when I found out it was a teleportation device.

Erik

loren1 - October 30, 2004 05:17 PM (GMT)
Science was never one of my subjects, but today's si-fi can very well be tommorows reallity. With imagation all things are possible. Look back in history and see the advances that were thought to be impossible. I'm for the future of the brain. Go Dr. Cussler th:




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