Ok here's the idea... What do you think of the Recent American Pesidential Election. nobody will bash on other peoples political views i just want to know what every one thinks...

for example I voted For President Bush, and i voted to the amendment that defines marriage as between a man and a woman.



let me know what you think.



-Ta Dagaz

There was an election? :blink:




Personlly I don't like politics so I don't pay attention to it.

I'm with you Oswalder!!!! Or Spain, Australia or Mexico. :lol: I won't go into all the reasons why i don't like Hillary yike:

I watched CNN out of intrest in the results, especially to see if there would be the debacle that occured four years ago.
I can find different reasons to respect both men. But if I weren't Canadian and were American instead, I think I would have voted for Bush.

Interesting. Small world I guess.

I probarbly would've voted Bush if

a) i was american
and
B ) old enough

I would have voted Bush IF I was old enough.... <_<

Im with you oswalder... canada would be nice in 2008 if billary wins

Anyone care to predict the candidates for 2008? Who knows, I may toss my hat in the race just to beat Hillary. :P

Maybe in 2008 we can go with Jesse Ventura as a write-in candidate. :lol:

If John Mccain runs in 2008 he will be hard to beat by anyone, seems very well respected by both parties.

Looks like former new york mayor Rudolph Giuliani and former new york governor George Pataki are considering running for president in 2008. And so is Evan Bayh, democrat considering a run for 2008.

Me thinks you meant Rudolph Giuliani, my friend!

Now that we have had two Baby Boomers in the White House (Clinton and Bush)it's time we elect a Gen-X President in 2008!!!! We have seen the two extremes of the baby boomer politics with Clinton and Bush. Clinton being the secular-humanist liberal police-state and Bush the god-fearing, Social Moralist and Pre-emptive War Homeland police-state Presidents. Let's stop rehashing 1960s politics and mores and get down to business and have a LEADER for President. Theres a crying need for Reform in our elections and government. These opinions do not reflect those of this forum but are the sole opinions of tonym5. w:

Me too! :)

me three :P (menage' a trois :lol:)

Tonym5 said: Now that we have had two Baby Boomers in the White House (Clinton and Bush)it's time we elect a Gen-X President in 2008!!!!

I bet we'll have two or three more baby-boomer presidents before we move on to the next generation ...

That's what probably will happen but i am praying for someone from my gen-X generation will accede the presidency (if not me :lol: ). The one generation missing from the presidency is that of the silent generation (born between 1925-1942). From 1960 to 1992 we had the G.I. Generation in the White House.

Im in the same boat as you, kerry was a manipulative, greedy, stupid little man . . .

Wow..... :lol:

Why are there always several inaugural balls every four years they have several when one would do and then the money spent on them is several million dollars!!!1 yike: That money could help the poor and the starving.

Here we go again with another Election this November. The odds of McCain being elected are too high I believe and Obama will win. If I thought the odds were more favorable I would toss my hat in the ring but our system is so fixed for the D's and R's it's ridiculous!! If you wish to vote out the professional politicans of the D's and R's vote for third party or independent candidates.

Speaking as 'a Brit', I hope that America wakes up to the way the world is today.
Far too many lives are lost throughout this planet of ours to natural causes, for us to add to them by way of wars!

If I was an American, I would ask myself who has the best chance, and the best program to not only end these conflicts, but to promote real peace and harmony among all peoples, and vote for that person.

Having said that, I applaud and Honour all those brave men and women who serve in the armed forces of America (and Britain) in the present conflict.

Just think of it - no wars - just peace and harmony among ALL Nations, this could lead to increased trade, which in turn leads to increased jobs and wages!

You may say 'that it will never happen' BUT IF WE DO NOT TRY, THEN WHAT HOPE IS THERE FOR US?
America has taken upon itself the heavy burden of a 'Super power' and leadership of the world, and all the responsability that goes with it.

w.m.watson[I]

WHAT

I am an American and your post makes no sense. I do NOT, NOT, NOT support the war, but nor do i support what Hussein did. I can not condone one human killing another in any way shape or form. I never voted for Bush and have never voted an a national election yet. And since we are already over there might as well finish the job. My nation's politics are screwed up. Why do you think no one votes here. There is no one good to vote for and the good ones like Ron Paul never make it. It all about the money. Take money out of politics and see how things change. If i knew how to change the American government i would but for now i study college and move out of the country someday. May our men and women come home soon. I wish no one to die in our almost senseless war.

I am always a little shocked by the amount of apathy youth in America have towards voting, and can never really figure out why they do not want to be the source of change. I know it is cliche, but every vote makes a difference, even if the person you vote for only gets 2 votes (ie. yours and their own) it has an impact. It forces the other candidates to take a second look at why that may have happened and why they didn't get your vote. Or there is the other aspect, 1000 people don't vote and the candidate they would have voted for ends up losing by the slimmest of margins. What could have happened if 50 of those people voted, or 500, or all of them? But because of the pervasive amount of apathy and the "it won't make a difference why should I" and "there isn't anyone worth voting for that could win" mentalities the "bad guy" always wins (because not matter who wins, someone thinks they should have lost). If you are old enough and able to vote you should do so no matter what, you can be a voice for someone who can't vote (which, with how the US runs their electoral system can be a lot of people at any given time). There are so many ways to create change, it just takes time. You might not see the reward for your effort now, but it will come.

There is also the saying, if you don't vote you give up your right to complain about politics and the government. So maybe that's why a lot of youth where I'm from (Canada) vote, because goodness knows nothing beats complaining about the government's latest bonehead move over a coffee.

Riyukco you are wrong. You, me and everyone can change things if we all did our part to make this a true democracy. There are many ways to affect change. Voting, participation, writing, speaking, meeting people, volunteering are examples of effecting a change. You just need to stand up and speak logically, efficiently, persuasively to get the message out there. That is the way to get things done and yes, even money can speak if you can learn how to use it.

Holy Cow! this thread is four years old! I forgot I even started it.

bizarre huh.

oh well the world and the de Facto politics there of marches on in all it moral turpitude

I would if i had any ability to speak and convey messages. I love to volunteer and i hope to get a science degree someday so i can help to change the world the way i know how to and love doing. I do vote and intend to vote this election. Learn how to use money to speak cool, how? Yes one can make a difference but not everyone can be that one. Yes people think that they don't make a difference in the large scheme of things but they do. I agree with you 100% We have a thousand ways of getting the message out there, it is being heard but ignored. Why? I have heard much on how much the one counts but people still go on like they don't. Yeah someone is going to win but the party system rules the voting world. The underdog that doesn't have a party or is not a D or an R losses cause people are sheep (no offense.) They would rather follow what they are taught.
[COLOR=red "The 1st United States Congress voted to pay Washington a salary of $25,000 a year—a large sum in 1789. Washington, already wealthy, declined the salary, since he valued his image as a selfless public servant. At the urging of Congress, however, he ultimately accepted the payment, to avoid setting a precedent whereby the presidency would be perceived as limited only to independently wealthy individuals who could serve without any salary." "Washington was not a member of any political party, and hoped that they would not be formed out of fear of the conflict and stagnation they could cause governance. His closest advisors, however, formed two factions, setting the framework for the future First Party System. Secretary of Treasury Alexander Hamilton had bold plans to establish the national credit and build a financially powerful nation, and formed the basis of the Federalist Party. Secretary of State Thomas Jefferson, founder of the Jeffersonian Republicans, strenuously opposed Hamilton's agenda, but Washington favored Hamilton over Jefferson." Two quotes from my history book.[COLOR=red]


My Boyfriend's words to your posts.
This country is a democratically run republic, not a true democracy. They build in checks and balances to keep one (including the people) from getting to much power. Not voting is also a choice. If there is no one worth voting for why pick someone you don't think is going to run the country in a good and efficient manner.

Huzzah for Mandatory voting in Australia.

Riyukco is your history book written by Wikipedia? Those two quotes are word for word from their website on GW.

[QUOTE]I would if i had any ability to speak and convey messages[QUOTE]

What exactly do you mean by this?

As for what your boyfriend wrote he is right but if you halfway pay attention in high school history / civics class then you would know this. Also, it is your choice to not vote if you don't like the candidates but what does that solve? There are numerous issues out there and no one candidate will support the issues the way you do - just not going to happen. The best thing to do is find out which issues are the most important to you and then find the candidate who supports them as closely as you do.

Nothing is perfect but our government is about as close as you can get. Sometimes the people we put into place aren't always what we want them to be plus things may get out of hand that they cannot control. Remember Bush won a controversial election but then won fairly easily in the next one - we (as Americans) probably goofed on this one. An election is like dating. We try real hard to find the best fit but sometimes it just doesn't work out.

Washington may have supported not having political parties but it's impossible to avoid them in our system of government. While he never officially joined or supported them GW was a Federalist. Most of what he accomplished and supported was of the same / similar thinking of Hamilton but Jefferson didn't think like they did. So what happens? A political party is born and their job is to to get the other party out of power.

All a political party is in the most basic form is a philosophy / way of thinking. So we have to choose which philosophy is the most similar to ours and vote that way. It doesn't mean everything they support will be what we support but find out what you feel is most important and vote that way.

As for the whole "one person making a difference" thing - it's true but it's not easy. That is why most people don't make that radical difference. The ones who do make the difference stick with it and never give up.

Yes our system started off cockeyed because two people with differences philosophically begat our party system and throwing some history that I already knew as a reply was definitely lacking in originality of thought or reasoned reply. Our government needs more honest people working hard to make things better no matter how lacking the citizen inaction of many. There's no excuse for apathy or ignorance in today's world. With many sources of news available to most people it is unbelievable that one does not make an effort at all. And upon that note this post will either end or hopefully continue the dialogue.

It is great to see how passionate people are about this topic, however berating the poster is not the way to inspire insight. We should be trying to help with ideas, our own experiences, and showing that there are solutions. I have no doubt that the way the political system is set up in America makes it very difficult and disheartening for youth that don't know any different. But it is possible for it to get better, just as it is possible for it to get much worse. Here in Canada, we wanted change and got it. Now after this happend, many aren't sure that it was the right idea. However, that election created a shift, a small party gained momentum (the Green Party, our environmentally friendly party), a superpower (the Liberals) was taken down a peg and forced to realize they have to put in effort to win, and a new party (Conservatives) was given the opportunity to shape our country. Even the NDP (New Democratic Party) had a shift in their power balance. There have been some great things happen with this change, and some bad things, but that creates balance in a system I guess. And you may not realize it Riyukco, but you have the ability to convey a message, you do with every post you make on this site and others like it. You convey a message whenever you speak with someone, even if it is a friend or family member. Every action we take conveys a message to someone, and sometimes it results in a domino effect with that message being passed on over and over, and you may not realize but when a change occurs from that action, you were a part of it.

My two cents is that if you want to fix the apathy problem then we need to fix the education system. NCLB is the worst thing to ever happen to education. We need to move away from "making you feel good about yourself" and move to "get the job done".

When I look at my classroom of 20 kids and see 4 kids who are exceptionally bright, 3 kids who have some sort of learning disability and 13 who are average I wonder how I am going to reach them all. They don't want to differentiate kids based on ability because it may stunt their emotional growth because they are in a "slower" class but when you put them in a class with advanced kids what do you do? Do you aim the class towards the high end and help the low end through or do you aim for the middle and hope the high end still picks it up and realize the low end MIGHT get the basics?

Now to connect this rant with the topic at hand - I am going to research the candidates and find which one feels the closest to how I feel education should be. If they aren't similar (which I suspect since I have some radical ideas - make them work hard) then I am going to find the one who has the best plan. Obviously there are other issues that are important and will weigh in on my decision but for me education is way up there.

Another issue that is important to me is I want a candidate who will have a plan in place for Iraq. We need to have a plan in place on how to deal with Iraq - if we stay then let's get actively involved in helping them set up a democratic government or if we decide to leave let it be known if they continue with funding terrorists and other human rights violation we will come back and wipe them from the face of the earth.

As for the person who posted that America took it upon itself to be a world power you may want to check your facts. The British asked us to take over that mantle because they were tired and could no longer able to do it. Before WWI Great Britain was the dominant world power with their "the sun never sits on the British empire". America was still getting onto it's legs and coming out of it's government corruption period of the late 1800's / early 1900's. Then WWI hit and the Germans put a severe hurting on the British but with our help we won. Then the Great Depression hit and what most people / Americans don't know is that it was a world wide depression and not something that just happened in America. Then WWII hit and after America stepped in and won it with the nuclear bomb Great Britain tagged out and America took over. When the French bowed out of Vietnam in their attempt to enforce Containment and the spread of Communism then it was clear that America was the world leader and the old world leaders - Britain, France and Spain - were done. It was a brand new world.

Tony you said with everyone's ability to gain access to news through the various outlets there should be no excuse for apathy. I agree to a certain degree. While people should be able to look up any and all info they still need to make an informed decision based on the source of info. The media has evolved to where it doesn't report the news but they create the news. Our politicians have always been corrupt in our history but things changed (in my opinion) forever with Nixon and Watergate. This and people not understanding our role in Vietnam put what might be a permanent distrust in our government by the people. Woodward and Bernstein went out and reported a story and became well known. Other journalists now look for that breaking story that will get them well known so we end up with information that is slightly spinned one way or another.

Sorry for the rant but really look forward to the replies and discussions that will come out of it.

Parliamentary and Presidential systems of governments both have their advantages and disadvantages. Khimera you are right about the changes over the past 120 years that have created the world we live in today. I am pretty well versed in history too and how Vietnam/Watergate had an effect on Americans and their attitude changes ever since. With the consequences of Watergate, reforms were made in campaign laws but even those laws were manipulated and corrupted too by the new set of politicians that were elected in 1974 (including Newt Gingrich) and as a result helped create the Republican majority in Congress for 12 years (94-06). I remember how the teachers in school treated certain students when I was a kid and am horrified by the NCLB system myself. Recently I talked with a teenage student who had traveled to France on a class trip and asked her what she knew of France and she could not explain even the history/culture or understand what she had seen. I was horrfied because even though I am no College Professor and yet know more about France or Spain then this young girl. What are they teaching students today? All I understand from watching these young people is that they use their thumbs to communicate with each other. Now I am begiining to understand why we rank so low in Educational competitions with other countries. yike:

The history book was someone else's so it could have been. I hate politics so i going to bow out before i screw myself with my simpleton knowledge.

Tony we are teaching the "test" because that is what we are judged on. NCLB mandates that each state have a standardized test at certain points (usually after Junior year) to measure growth. Everything is based on that - textbooks are being written geared toward the test.

Each state is allowed to determine how to use the test. For example - in North Carolina the state test is used to help determine whether a student passes a class or not. In Kentucky the test does not affect the student at all - just the effectiveness of teachers. I feel what is going on in Kentucky is part of the problem. If a student in Kentucky decides he is going to show up and not doing anything during the test there is nothing to hold him accountable but when his score brings the school's overall score down it really hurts the school.

Plus it compares apples to oranges and expects the results to make sense. What I mean is each class is compared to another class. At my last school the test scores went up for 3 consecutive years in Social Studies but that 4th year the results went down. The school freaked out and said we needed to change our teaching techniques to better reach students to help them do better on the test. Now let me ask you - did we really get worse as teachers over that one summer or did we run into a class that wasn't as sharp as the previous three? This does happen - you find a class of students that as a group are weaker than other classes. We had a professional development day to work on different techniques and we weren't real happy about it. I asked if we could compare that groups test scores to when they took the same test as 8th graders. They had dramatically improved. So while they didn't do as well as the past three classes they had improved. I think that is success but it doesn't matter under NCLB.

The biggest problem (my opinion) under NCLB and society in general is that the student accountability no longer exists. It is viewed today if a student fails then it is the teacher's fault. I had one kid in class who would NOT do anything. I sent him to the office, put him in detention, talked with him and other things. I honestly felt I did everything in my power to try and reach him. He was given a person who would "stay on top of his movements" to "help" him. Basically he had an adult follow him around and do his work for him. He had a vision condition and used it as a crutch. I moved him to the front, made the fonts bigger on my notes, gave him copies of the notes and other accomodations - he still refused to work. The aide or whatever came up to me and asked what he could do to make it in my class. I told her he needs to start doing his work (I even let him turn it in late but he wouldn't). She came back a few weeks later and said "so when are you going to help him pass this class". I told her I had done everything and more to help him - it was his call now. She said "so you are not going to give him the grade he needs to pass?" I said nope. She got him switched out of my class citing that I didn't like him because he wasn't an athlete. He went to the new teacher and continued to fail his class as well.

Riyukco - leaving isn't the best way to learn about this. Why do you hate politics? It is imperative to understand and care what our government does because if left unchecked they will abuse power. It's easy to say "it will never happen in today's society" but if everyone didn't care who would be there to stop it?

I have been studying or teaching history for around 16 years and Tony really understands and knows history as well. I am sure others in here have a strong grasp of social sciences and other areas of study. Stay here and learn. You can learn and develop informed opinions on poliltics through learning but it takes work. That is another area I see where kids lack - they expect everything given to them. You can give knowledge / education but the person has to be willing to take it. I can't place the information itno my students head but I can provide it and they can take it through work. You can do the same.

I am 19 years old. I am a christian that is going to Liberal Arts Cristian College for a science degree. Any more i am not sure what to believe. I hear so many different opinions about so many different things. I hate politics because of the corruption and that they are basically celebrities anymore. Why should it take years to get anything don't in congress rather then months. Left wing, right wing i can barley stand it anymore. Is it that hard to run the country in a manner that makes the country money, help peoples, and saves the environment. The problem is everyone has a different opinion and are out for there own self interests. But they have the right to have a different opinion. I have my own opinion.
NCLB was the worst thing that happened to this country's education system. Its not that the teacher's aren't reaching the students its that the students don't think they have to do anything with there life. With a minimum of effort one can make C's in HS and pass. But they choose not to. Yeah we can't compare to other countries because we have lost the ability to motivate the children to succeed in school. Its not the teacher's faults and half of the time not the parents fault. Where the fault lies i am not entirely sure. It is somewhere imbeded in the kids role models. What are the other countries doing differently that is making there students do so well. Maybe thats what we need to look to rather then NCLB.
Back to politics. I know that one isn't going to have all of my opinions. But get rid of the corruption and the media hysteria when something that does happen and i might like it better.I think congress went down hill when they made it so they can vote themselves raises rather then someone else controlling that. Why is this war proving to be such a drag. In the Great Depression it took a war to pull us out of the slump. You can still have a war on terror and loss less people and loss less money. Run it more efficiently and like you your self is out there fighting it. Why do we have a food shortage scare when the government is paying farmers not to grow crops. Why have companies grown up again and no one remembers antitrust laws to prevent one company from controlling free market.
I hate when people say it will never happen. but i believe my best course of action is to study and change things through science they way i know how and not argue over politics. :P

Lisa, study and learn but don't close yourself on Politics. You made some very good points in your post and, you are the future. Listen to other people and hear what they say. Form you opinions. Write to your Congress people and Senators. Voice your concerns.And most of all VOTE!!!!! Some people say 1 vote won't make a difference but many people who vote will. Demand that the people we put in office really represent the people. Don't give up. w:

[SIZE=1][QUOTE]RIYUKO 22nd AUGUST 2008

You seem to have misunderstood me my friend, as I stated,"I honour & support all the brave men and women serving in Iraq from both America & Britain".

That does not stop me from being against war as such!

I well remember the first Gulf war (in 1991/2), and I recollect saying then, 'That if we did not finish the job then, we would have to go back again within 10 years' and, sure enough, we have had to do so.

To my mind, the gulf war of 1991/2 WAS COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED under the UNITED NATIONS Mandate of that time, - hence the support in men and arms from the many other nations of the Middle East. NOT SO THIS TIME!!

My son served in the British army at the time, I myself have never had the honour of serving in any of our armed forces. (the nearest I can claim to being involved in ANY ARMED CONFLICT, is the fact that, as a baby, I was machine gunned in my pram by a German fighter bomber in 1942!!). Fortunately, he missed, and was himself shot down by a Spitfire of the Royal Air Force.

But we are getting away from the point of the origional question ,which was 'What do you think of the American Elections?'
I stand by my previous remarks on this matter. By the way, as far as voting goes, - I vote in all elections (both national & local) that I am entitled to in my country. TOO MANY GOOD PEOPLE HAVE FOUGHT AND DIED ON THE BATTLEFIELD for my right to vote. AND I WILL NOT SULLY THEIR MEMORY BY THROWING AWAY MY VOTE!!!! or, just 'not bothering!'

There is also an old saying " Those who do not bother to vote, get the Government they Deserve!"

I leave you to make of that what you will.

MY MOST HUMBLE APPOLOGIES TO ALL OTHERS INVOLVED in this discussion for seeming to 'Sound off', I have no desire whatsoever to offend any of you, for, through the medium of this forum, I count YOU ALL AS GOOD FRIENDS.

Let us hope that it is not too long before all our brave boys and girls are home (safe and well) for good.

my regards to you all my friends.

w.m.watson

These are my own personal views, and are NOT intended to be taken as slures or insults to anyone on this forum!

Speaking for myself, I found nothing at all offensive in your original post w.m.watson and actually thought what you said needed to be said.

I must say though, I'm curious to which candidate the American members are leaning towards. I'm starting to wonder what sort of shot Obama actually has now after ditching Hillary. Personally, I think it was a massive error on his part and may end up costing him the election. McCain is interesting, but the whole Republican party has left a bad taste and I don't see him as being able to take the party in a new direction (or wanting to for that matter).