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Title: #754 The Lurking Fear


Algasir - January 21, 2012 07:07 AM (GMT)
...Things are about to go to Hell, aren't they?

aturtledoesbite - January 21, 2012 07:11 AM (GMT)
Eh? When'd we get into the world of FF2? :P

Anyway, if you assumed a world with Kefka was not Hell, then you need to go replay FF6.

Algasir - January 21, 2012 07:20 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (aturtledoesbite @ Jan 21 2012, 01:11 AM)
replay FF6.

Yeah. About that...

aturtledoesbite - January 21, 2012 07:22 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Algasir @ Jan 21 2012, 01:20 AM)
QUOTE (aturtledoesbite @ Jan 21 2012, 01:11 AM)
replay FF6.

Yeah. About that...

Eh? What do you mean by that?

(By my count, that's the second time you quote something of mine and answer with "About that...". Finish your thoughts! :P)

Algasir - January 21, 2012 07:29 AM (GMT)
I've never really played FF6 in the first place. I think I got to Kefka's Tower (or whatever that tower you needed an airship for in the World of Light/NotRuin/Whatever), but that's about it.

aturtledoesbite - January 21, 2012 07:30 AM (GMT)
Then go play it now! No better time like the present to play one of the best games that Square's ever made!

Algasir - January 21, 2012 07:33 AM (GMT)
I've tried. On three different occasions. I can never get into it.

Besides, I have too many other games to play anyway.

Gaius - January 21, 2012 08:30 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Algasir @ Jan 21 2012, 07:33 AM)
I've tried.  On three different occasions.  I can never get into it.

Besides, I have too many other games to play anyway.

Ah, sorry to hear that. Still, if you got to the airship in the World of Ruin, no one can say you didn't give the game a fair shot. :thumbsup: If you decide to give it another try someday, I hope it goes better than the others.

In response to the first post and the second:
Yyyyep, I think Kefka learning to play the reality-warping kid like a violin and introducing her to some serious sorrow might just redefine hell for that world. ^_^o

Algasir - January 21, 2012 08:34 AM (GMT)
Actually, I never made it to the World of Ruin.

Gaius - January 21, 2012 09:41 AM (GMT)
Ah. ... ^_^o Then I'm not sure what you're talking about here:
QUOTE (Algasir @ Jan 21 2012, 07:29 AM)
I think I got to Kefka's Tower (or whatever that tower you needed an airship for in the World of Light/NotRuin/Whatever), but that's about it.

There are two airship-requiring towers in FF VI, and both pertain to Kefka, but both also take place after the world gets devastated.
The only other places that are called out for requiring an airship (that I recall) are the Imperial/Southern Continent with Imperial Capital Vector (and Magitek Research Facility), and the Floating Continent (and, technically, the Cave to the Sealed Gate). Do those ring any bells?

Algasir - January 21, 2012 09:46 AM (GMT)
Looking at a walkthrough, I think it was the Magitek Research Facility.

enlong - January 21, 2012 04:44 PM (GMT)
Ya know, Cyan probably wouldn't have needed any help to take on those bogeymen.

One Oblivion, and they'd have all fallen to pieces.

Knight - January 21, 2012 04:48 PM (GMT)
I actually never beat the game either. I basically got lost in the world of ruin. I had the airship, but I got suck trying to get Terra back. I recall looking at a walkthrough at the time and concluding my save was bugged, and never getting back to it.

Sir Donald - January 21, 2012 06:34 PM (GMT)
My first thought upon reading the last panel of this comic was: "Oh, no, Kefka. For the love of your own Modus Operendi, do not go there!"

I daresay that soon we will be looking at something like as happened at Mysidia except:
A: Kefka has absolutely no idea of what he's about to unleash (much unlike EoD)
B: There's no Creative/Hope energy source in the heroes' possession (e.g. Frog's Masamune; Celes' acting ability wouldn't be applicable here.)

I feel that Kefka, like EoD, shall soon awaken a power that should've remained dormant. (Or, as dormant as the shard currently is...)



Actually, I do see a way that our heroic Diva (in both the operatic and the Ogre Battle sense) can prevent this: Congratulations, Locke: you're about to become a foster father of a Girl of Mass Destruction. At least, if Celes can calm the girl down from the ledge of Despair...

SorataYuy - January 21, 2012 06:58 PM (GMT)
Here's a good point that Celes was trying to get across, that I'm amazed a rather smart Engineer-type and a Knight who's actually quite handy with machines seemed to miss completely: "Boys. SHUT UP, get up there, and FIGHT HIM before he makes it worse." Sadly, they didn't seem to get the urgency. And to think these boys were some of the heroes of this world? *facepalm*

Spriteless Girl - January 21, 2012 07:22 PM (GMT)
He's had practice at this. Geeze Terra must have had a messed up childhood; she was reared by Kefka. I wonder if she flew off to Dylan and Katlin's baby who may be a reincarnation of, or be symbolic of, or bring back magic or life or sparkles? The ending was kind of vague on that matter.

Kefka is a nihilist. He would be happy to unleash that which is worse than himself, which is why his is the first Final Fantasy where anyone summoned the ultimate evil power and kept his identity. [so many spoilers for FFs I've played] Garland -> Chaos, Xande -> Cloud of Darkness, Zemus -> Zeromus, Ex-Death -> the void.[/ though they should not surprise you if you've played this sort of game] So I don't think this is foolish of Kefka, by which I mean I don't think it will have consequences that upset him if she unleashes waves of sorrow. Sorry, waves of SORROW.

And if he is despite logic, it will be very dramatic, and if it is directly rather than indirectly I will suspect Dr. Wily and his ilk not immune to the girl/shard either. People who are well defined and yet never change are supposed to be immune to corruption, and people who laugh are supposed to have extra resistance.

(Really? A link to tvtropes' PersonOfMassDestruction when the name says what it? Don't even bring up that tin article it is always unnecessary.)

HeroicJay - January 22, 2012 12:32 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Spriteless Girl @ Jan 21 2012, 12:22 PM)
He's had practice at this. Geeze Terra must have had a messed up childhood; she was reared by Kefka.

Messed up childhood? Well, yeah.

Raised by Kefka? Well... no, the game doesn't support this idea at all.

The game doesn't really explain much about Terra's childhood, but it seems to imply that she lived her childhood as a lab rat. Kefka put a slave crown on her at one point (she's depicted as an adult at this point), but Terra outright fears Kefka the first time she sees him in-game.

LuppyLuptonium - January 22, 2012 02:30 AM (GMT)
So many people in this thread who I want to beat with my footwear (It's my favorite game)....

Still I find it amusing that one of the biggest bads in videoland may have gained untold power from letting Kefka mentally abuse a 4 year old.

aturtledoesbite - January 22, 2012 02:55 AM (GMT)
Four? She's at least seven. After all, she can at least understand what everyone's saying.

LuppyLuptonium - January 22, 2012 05:13 AM (GMT)
My nephew is 3 and he understands what people are saying.

aturtledoesbite - January 22, 2012 05:46 AM (GMT)
...Bleh. I still say she's around 6 or 7. That seems to be the average age for young girls in RPGs. Especially considering that most mothers wouldn't dare let their children run off at the age of 3 or 4.

jaimehlers - January 23, 2012 07:22 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (aturtledoesbite @ Jan 22 2012, 12:46 AM)
...Bleh. I still say she's around 6 or 7. That seems to be the average age for young girls in RPGs. Especially considering that most mothers wouldn't dare let their children run off at the age of 3 or 4.

Say, young children in general. Porom and Palom were only 6 themselves.

It's possible that this girl is younger, but I simply can't imagine her being even a year younger. Remember that she is a summoner, and there's a limit to how young someone could be and still be able to use magic effectively.

invinible - January 23, 2012 07:42 AM (GMT)
She isn't using magic effectively. She is using it Willy-nilly as her emotions dictate.


As for Dr. Wily, I remember a comic in the line that clearly had him in the immune to being touched status when Alex went over that.

jaimehlers - January 23, 2012 04:43 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (invinible @ Jan 23 2012, 02:42 AM)
She isn't using magic effectively. She is using it Willy-nilly as her emotions dictate.


As for Dr. Wily, I remember a comic in the line that clearly had him in the immune to being touched status when Alex went over that.

I refer not to the shard's power, which isn't hers, but to her ability to summon. You'll note she actually cast a summoning spell originally, then dismissed the flowers once she realized they weren't needed.

And Wily isn't immune to being Touched. Alex is.

Gaius - January 23, 2012 05:41 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (jaimehlers @ Jan 23 2012, 04:43 PM)
QUOTE (invinible @ Jan 23 2012, 02:42 AM)
She isn't using magic effectively.  She is using it Willy-nilly as her emotions dictate.

I refer not to the shard's power, which isn't hers, but to her ability to summon. You'll note she actually cast a summoning spell originally, then dismissed the flowers once she realized they weren't needed.

The Shard of Tears dictates (some of) reality according to the girl's whims, so this isn't really possible to know. We know she was trying to cast a summon spell here, but we don't know if it was successfully cast. It might have just happened because she believed trying the spell would make it work and the Shard made it so. We can't know, yet.

That said, the POMF and colored smoke for Summon Flowers (possibly the Shard) and the monster(s) under the bed(s) (definitely the Shard) are the same. That makes me think it's all the Shard's power, but I concede it might just be what the girl thinks "appearification" looks like based on her own casting power.

There's also still the question of whether magic-users from other worlds could even cast anything in FF VI (before Kefka came back). They might 'bring their magic with them,' but that shouldn't be assumed. If they can, the open question of 'Shard or girl' remains. If they can't, the flowers wouldn't have been possible without the Shard.

invinible - February 8, 2012 04:24 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (jaimehlers @ Jan 23 2012, 04:43 PM)
QUOTE (invinible @ Jan 23 2012, 02:42 AM)
She isn't using magic effectively.  She is using it Willy-nilly as her emotions dictate.


As for Dr. Wily, I remember a comic in the line that clearly had him in the immune to being touched status when Alex went over that.

I refer not to the shard's power, which isn't hers, but to her ability to summon. You'll note she actually cast a summoning spell originally, then dismissed the flowers once she realized they weren't needed.

And Wily isn't immune to being Touched. Alex is.

No, this comic made it clear Alex Williams isn't immune to the Sovereign's powers but Dr. Wily is. Alex is basically only getting out of most touched situations because others like Bob and the real world cat are messing up the Sovereign's plans.

Sir Donald - February 8, 2012 05:17 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (invinible @ Feb 8 2012, 12:24 AM)
No, this comic made it clear Alex Williams isn't immune to the Sovereign's powers but Dr. Wily is.  Alex is basically only getting out of most touched situations because others like Bob and the real world cat are messing up the Sovereign's plans.

Evidence, sir! Which comic?

If you're referring to Comic #571, then Comic #585 makes it clear that Alex was merely mourning the loss of Sailor Mercury and used that loss to rally himself.

In fact, if anything, his tone becomes more belligerent towards the Sovereign when the wave hit; if Sorrow energy had the same effect on him as all others, he would have become meek and momentarily surrendered the war (not just this one battle). Also, the subsequent comic shows that Alex was not affected one bit by Mega's release of Creation energy.

Alex and Schrodinger are immune to the Sovereign's power by virtue of being from the (true) Real World. I could allow for Dr. Wily to have created a countermeasure for his own use, but you seem to be the only person to think that such a countermeasure exists; a stasis pod intended presumably for the Shard's bearer doesn't really count.

MFD - February 9, 2012 06:40 PM (GMT)
Light mentions that Wily is the only one he trusts because he never changes.

He is resistant, but the Omega Wave affected him.

jaimehlers - February 10, 2012 02:34 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (invinible @ Feb 7 2012, 11:24 PM)
No, this comic made it clear Alex Williams isn't immune to the Sovereign's powers but Dr. Wily is. Alex is basically only getting out of most touched situations because others like Bob and the real world cat are messing up the Sovereign's plans.

Wily was affected by both the wave of Sorrow from Roll, and the subsequent wave of Hope from Retro-Megaman. Alex was affected by neither. I'll grant that Wily was not as vulnerable to Sorrow as most denizens of Videoland, but "not as vulnerable" does not mean he was immune.

aturtledoesbite - February 10, 2012 02:45 AM (GMT)
Here's a theory. The literary terms "flat" and "round" characters describe characters who have few or many personality traits, respectively. It's possible that, based on what MFD said ("Light mentions that Wily is the only one he trusts because he never changes."), flat characters are not as affected by Hope and Sorrow as round characters.

Cyrus - February 10, 2012 02:56 AM (GMT)
The old working theory, before we even knew alpha energy was a thing, was that sorrow didn't affect... "pure" characters. Frog and Cecil were pure good, while Wily was pure evil.

...what we know about Videoland has changed an awful lot since then though.

aturtledoesbite - February 10, 2012 03:48 AM (GMT)
The only two people we can decisively conclude are immune would be Cecil and Alex. Everyone else would just be speculation. Frog only has an alpha-charged sword, Wily survived direct contact with the Shard-Bearer. And that seems to be getting thrown out the window since no one in FFVI is being affected by being so near the Shard-Bearer. Of course, when the coming Sorrow Wave starts, all bets are off.

jaimehlers - February 10, 2012 05:20 PM (GMT)
I don't think we can decisively conclude that Cecil is immune. He couldn't be affected by Edward's sorrow-enhanced powers, but that could be because Alpha energy repels Omega energy. It could simply be that Edward could not bring enough Omega energy to bear in order to affect Cecil, but sufficient Omega energy (such as from the Sovereign) could do so.

It's like how it takes exponentially more force to push two protons together the closer they get to each other. Obviously, Alpha/Omega energy are not a case where like repels, though, but it should be enough to convey the gist.

aturtledoesbite - February 10, 2012 08:19 PM (GMT)
That may be true...but then, what of Roll? As evidenced by her, Alpha and Omega energy do not cancel each other out. Also, what proof do we have that Cecil has Alpha energy? Was this drawn from the same assumption that Frog has some kind of anti-Omega protection simply because his sword seems to have Alpha energy? Also, don't you think Alex would have mentioned something about it when Cecil resisted Spoony's Voice of Sorrow? Nothing much is known about these energies at all, really. To be truly honest, the only thing we can say for certain about Alpha and Omega energy is that one glows green and the other glows purple.

jaimehlers - February 10, 2012 11:01 PM (GMT)
I said they repel each other, not that they cancel each other out. In fact, I think they can stabilize each other if present in similar proportions.

Alex is buying time until he gets freed. He's only explaining what he has to in order to keep Ryan focused on him. Dealing it out in dribs and drabs, in other words.

So we don't know that Cecil has Alpha energy. We just know of nothing else that can give a Videoland sprite the ability to resist or oppose the Sovereign's power.

Completely off-subject, I just noticed something in Comic #382. Specifically, the side-by-side comparison of the Shard of Tears and Tragedy's Mask.

aturtledoesbite - February 10, 2012 11:20 PM (GMT)
You mean the likeliness that they are the Sovereign's heart? Bit late to the party, I'd think. I mean, I noticed that the first time I read the comic, and the people around here are a lot more observant than I am.




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