Title: S3Ep4 Discussion
Description: Does Every cloud has a silver lining?
Lisa289 - March 20, 2007 03:11 PM (GMT)
Babs the Bigamistic Millionaire
Well, I'm sure we didn't see that one coming! Who thinks Babs married Peter for the cash? Well I don't! I think she genuinely loved/still loves Peter, especially since we had that wonderful "soul-mate" chat between her and Nikki in the previous series. I do sympathise with Barbara in this episode, at the same time in which I agree with the others' distrust in her afterwards. From Barbara's POV, she does have very reasonable answers to why she kept quite about the money: she most probably would have been beaten up/blackmailed if everyone (namely Shell) knew she was that rich. But, looking at the other inmates' POVs, I guess they do have every right to feel angry at her: they ttrusted her, Shaz and Denny even landed themselves extra time for her! Though, I think the Shaz-Denny-Shell trio were doing the phone calls and stuff for their own pleasure, more than to help Babs.
Someone with real balls!
Gina Rossi! Man, she's awesome. Her first episode and I love her already! She's an awesome character, right from the word go. She even brought back Zandra’s favourite adjective: “twatting”. In fact, was that not one of her first words? When she got out the van, she said “twatting wankers”. (And, if that wasn’t enough, Shaz even uttered “twat” in this very episode too: “Yeah you lying twat”). Anyway, back to Gina’s actual character, I love the way she talked to Karen! And then when Karen got the better of her, she backed down a bit. Reminded me of myself at school!! Mouthing off then trying to make excuses when the teacher susses you out. :lol: I loved that they showed a background to her character by having Sylvia knowing her previously. We get to see how other people view her and how she reacts to them too. I think what I liked most about her though, was her ability to shut Shell up! First when introducing herself as Shell’s new personal officer, then when Shell tries to go for Babs.
Money back guarantee
Yvonne’s proving to be a very devious - and clever – woman, isn’t she. Ok, so it was Nikki who actually thought up the male-escort thing, but Yvonne goes about it very well. From knowing they should wait, to knowing Sylvia hasn’t got the bottle to ring that number. I loved the scenes between Sylvia and Karen regarding Yvonne’s “legal” visits too. They gave us some great lines: “If he was a lawyer then I’m a jumbo jet”; “I didn’t tell you to put the jackboots on and strip search the lawyer!” Two of my favourite quotes in this episode by far. I was laughing so much when Sylvia brought the DST in on the real lawyer! Her face was a right picture when she discovered he wasn’t a “jiggalo or a drugs dealer – possibly both”. But even more laugh-enduring was Yvonne’s face when she saw the look on Sylvia’s face :lol1 Yvonne knows when Sylvia’s embarrassed, and she loves it – as do we :D
Bye, bye, McAllister Shrine…
….And Hello, Mitchell Shrine!! Di Barker is officially a loony. At least before, we could assume she was just obsessed with Dominic; one guy. But now, he’s gone so she boxes up all his stuff and creates a brand new shrine, dedicated this time to Josh. Definitely a few screws (no pun intended!) loose in her head – maybe more than a few. But then we know she has to fully care for her mother, but that’s still not a good enough excuse for going deranged where men are concerned. It’s not as if she’s totally stressed – she lets most of it out by beating the old dear! She should definitely go in for councilling.
Couldn’t think of any running theme this week – it’s too cold to think that deeply. I can only just type, my hands are frozen and I swear they’re turning blue. So maybe somebody else will pick up a theme?
richard - March 20, 2007 05:27 PM (GMT)
A very nice opening post Lisa. Ove got a number of random observations to add.
Babs has a very nice line in walloping Peter's son when they sprung the trap on her but you could see Babs digging herself deeper into the hole in trying to deny the truth and cover the situation up. Yvonne behaved with deal dignity and graciousness throughout the episode. I saw definite similarities between Nikki's hard line in being lied to and her 'two faced tart' outburst at Helen. You saw her continually reevaluating her attitude throughout the episode. I was surprised when Karen told the PO's of Babs real background that she left it wide open for Bodybag to blab to the prisoners which she did with as predictable relish as Shell reacted selfishly.
Like you, Lisa, I loved the playoff between Gina and Bodybag, especially in their respective reactions to the visit by Yvonne's 'brief.' Gina is a character who I wished had stayed longer in Bad Girls as the prison officers in Series 8 were pretty colourless without being any the more believable. An unobtrusive but effective moment was the shared grin between Gina and Yvonne about the ethics in running down a 'fellow prison officer' as likewise was Nikki's encouragement for Yvonne's 'brief,' as a continuation of the previous episode's 'matiness.'
This is an episode where Di goes definitely in the direction of being wierd. It has been the presence of Dominic that has held her together and little does Josh know what his encouragement unleashed. The relationship between Di and her mother is very precisely portrayed where you see how the mother's dominant personality makes Di's ingrained though rather wierd 'dutiful' instincts prevail over her obvious resentments and likewise the way Di tries to deny hitting her mother the previous night and how her manipulative character comes to the fore. You also get the feeling that Di's wardrobe is filled with a number of dead 'shrines.'
It is noticable how Nikki this episode is being portrayed away from her interactions with Helen and one really big absence that is noteworthy as was last week, that Fenner is absent. This absence may have coloured these two episodes more warmly than they would have otherwise done if his brooding presence had been around.
Lisa289 - March 20, 2007 10:38 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (richard @ Mar 20 2007, 05:27 PM) |
Babs has a very nice line in walloping Peter's son when they sprung the trap on her but you could see Babs digging herself deeper into the hole in trying to deny the truth and cover the situation up.
|
I agree about the great walloping! But all I kept thinking when I first watched this episode was that Babs was digging herself into a hole here. I couldn't help but think that she was really trying to cover something up. So I wasn't all that surprised when it was revealed she'd never divorced from Arthur - it never crossed my mind that she'd killed him though. But I was not expecting the £3.5m!! :lol1
| QUOTE |
| I was surprised when Karen told the PO's of Babs real background that she left it wide open for Bodybag to blab |
I never thought about this before. I always thought that she'd had to tell them; like they had a right to know the situatios of all the prisoners. Especially when she mentioned that Babs was getting charged with Peter's murder; a further charging of an inmate is surely something that the POs need to know, right?
| QUOTE (richard) |
| Gina is a character who I wished had stayed longer in Bad Girls as the prison officers in Series 8 were pretty colourless without being any the more believable. |
I totally agree, Richard. I loved Gina's character and think she deserved more than the not-even-a-whole-series that she got.
| QUOTE (richard) |
| An unobtrusive but effective moment was the shared grin between Gina and Yvonne about the ethics in running down a 'fellow prison officer' |
Haha, I loved this scene! "I'd take a very dim view of it if it was". That line cracked me up. It showed how much Gina really actually disliked Bodybag and how she's not bothered about rules and reg; she'll diss her fellow officers if she feels like it!
| QUOTE (richard) |
You also get the feeling that Di's wardrobe is filled with a number of dead 'shrines.'
|
:eek Was there a scene later on (maybe in S4 when Barry's moving in) when it shows a "Mark" box too? Or did I just imagine that? Either way, I do think it's highly likely that the "Dominic" box is not the first of its kind to be placed on that shelf!
| QUOTE (richard) |
| Fenner is absent. This absence may have coloured these two episodes more warmly than they would have otherwise done if his brooding presence had been around. |
Good point here, Richard. Fenner's absence definitely "warmed up" prison life. The episodes seemed a bit more free and easy without him. But, he's back next week. Which I suppose is quite a good thing; we can't go thinking prison's that stress-free and colourful all the time, can we?
abzug - March 22, 2007 02:32 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (lisa289) |
| Gina Rossi! Man, she's awesome. |
Totally. Gina was a fantastic character. They managed to create a prison officer who was interesting and created interesting conflicts without having her be evil. This may be the first and last time they managed to accomplish that.
| QUOTE (richard) |
| This is an episode where Di goes definitely in the direction of being wierd. |
You can say that again! In fact, the first note I made when I was watching this episode (yes, I keep a notebook of ideas when I watch, I know, I'm a total geek) was this: "psycho Di--I loathe her." The opening scene with her mother when she acts like she didn't attack her the night before (or whenever it was) is so appalling and creepy and just gross.
But when I was about halfway through the episode, I realized in retrospect that it was key that they opened the episode this way. Because in this first scene, Di is pretending she didn't attack her mother. She's play-acting the role of dutiful, caring daughter. In a way that's certainly disturbing to viewers, and very destabilizing, when it comes to our own grip on reality. I sat there thinking "does she believe the story she's telling?" I honestly wasn't sure, until quite late in the scene.
This play-acting opening sets the stage (hehe) for the rest of the major plotlines in the episode, all of which have to do with performance, with fantasy versus reality, and the levels of reality, those grey areas. This theme generally manifests itself in romantic relationships. (In fact, I think that's why they didn't include any Helen-Nikki moments in this episode, because they are a couple which you would not want to tie into a theme of "playing" a fantasy or false relationship.) So in just the first few minutes of the episode you've got:
1. Gina with her boyfriend on the phone--this is the real relationship, the one that sets the stage for the variety of performed relationships which come next.
2. Yvonne with the gigilo--although they have sex for real, a gigilo is a fantasy figure. He's playing at being a lawyer, and then he's playing at being a lover. He fulfills being a lover, but only in a transactional way. It's a paid performance.
3. Di inventing, for Josh's benefit, a fantasy relationship which has just broken up, for the sake of explaining the truth of her emotional state. This is the most intriguing to me, because although we know Di is lying about the literal details (there is no boyfriend, after all), she does feel betrayed by Dominic, and so she's actually not lying, emotionally-speaking, to Josh. This is a good example of the "levels of reality."
4. Babs' now seemingly-false marriage, where she (potentially) played at being in love in order to get rich.
Babs' is the central storyline, and the one which most focuses on this idea of play-acting, and the damage it can cause. Nikki condemns Barbara for being a liar (the "best one I ever saw"), and in Nikki's mind, being a liar is the worst thing you can be. Because the most important thing is to be able to know who is play-acting and who is not, what's real and what's not. Nikki is the stand-in for us audience members: I found myself a bit aghast and Babs' vehemence when she says she's going to hire a private detective to find her ex-husband and prove she's divorced. She doesn't seem like she's lying at all, even when you know she is.
And this is the central question--how can you tell when someone is performing, pretending? How do you tell authentic from pretend? Sylvia is obsessed with the fact that Yvonne's lawyer isn't a real lawyer. Yvonne is smart enough to play the part the first time around. Which is enough to inspire Sylvia to catch her at it the next time. She's certain that the whole thing is a "pantomime" as she calls it when she busts in with the DST. But of course, Sylvia was totally wrong--the second lawyer is real. And Sylvia wasn't the only one who thought the lawyer was playing a part--Yvonne did as well.
Interestingly, Charlie's lawyer is there to request Yvonne to do some play-acting of her own, to lie about the 20 kilos of cocaine they found at the Atkins' residence. And Yvonne is seeming to go along with it. But of course, by the end of the episode, it's not clear whether she's going to play the role Charlie wants her to play, or the role she wants to play for herself. Tune in next week to find out! But again, it's the levels of reality, or in this case, the levels of play-acting, to the point that (next week) Yvonne is going to lie on the stand but tell an essential truth about Charlie's criminal activities.
There are two other main storylines in this episode, both of which tie in quite neatly. Almost too neatly, really. I'm finding these S3 episodes to be so tight in terms of themes and symbolism, but much LESS tight in terms of plotting and character development. Anyway, we've got the crazy Julies leading this intimidation campaign against Babs' stepchildren. In all the letters and phone calls, all the cons are sort of joking or play-acting criminal behavior. Shell threatens to tear out the stepdaughter's fingernails. The Julies laugh about scaring the stepson with the prospect of winding up in a concrete overcoat. Obviously the Julies aren't that type of criminal. Arguably Shell IS the type to tear out someone's fingernails, but regardless they are all performing: there's nothing they can actually do other than the threats--there's no chance of carrying them out.
And then we've got Di's obsessive recruitment of Josh to be a PO. I sat there thinking, how the HECK does THIS tie in with the idea of performance. But of course it's so damn obvious, because at the end of the episode, Di's newfound fantasy of Josh takes over, tying back into the opening stretch of the episode and the realities and fantasies of romantic relationships. But in this case, we're square back on the side of fantasy, and it's clear that this fantasy is going to be destructive. On this Nikki is right--being around a liar, even someone who has convinced themselves of their own lies, is very very dangerous. Josh, beware!
ekny - March 22, 2007 03:26 AM (GMT)
Man, after a few days away & busy with work you sure came back Inspired! Very impressive, this's given me a lot to think about, thank you!
In terms of the tightness of plotting vs your unease abt character presentation, I don't feel that's as much of an issue in this episode, perhaps, given the parameters of Falseness you're talking about. Because the final participant is ourselves; we *do* know how to read Shell vs the Julies in terms of intimidation, say--but Babs' stepchildren do not; to them it's presumably just as effective as the cons hope it will be. Similarly with Di & Josh: we know this is not not not gonna necessarily go well for poor Josh, and that's the extra bit that gives the ep its edge, I think....
Lisa289 - March 22, 2007 01:12 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (abzug @ Mar 22 2007, 02:32 AM) |
| Gina was a fantastic character. They managed to create a prison officer who was interesting and created interesting conflicts without having her be evil. This may be the first and last time they managed to accomplish that. |
I think you're right: I don't think there has been another character throughout the 8 seasons that had the ability to be interesting and conflicting without being evil - all at the same time.
| QUOTE (abzug) |
| This play-acting opening sets the stage (hehe) for the rest of the major plotlines in the episode, all of which have to do with performance, with fantasy versus reality, and the levels of reality, those grey areas. |
I think this is a great theme that you've picked out here, abzug. And I'm not going to comment on every single thing you said, because I'd be here all day! But everything you have mentioned makes a LOT of sense, well done :clap
| QUOTE (abzug) |
| I found myself a bit aghast and Babs' vehemence when she says she's going to hire a private detective to find her ex-husband and prove she's divorced. |
Me too! She says "Why didn't I think of that?" So this makes us, as viewers, think that she is totally innocent. But then when it's revealed that she actually wasn't divorced, we start wondering why she was considering hiring the detective. But then we realise that she's plainly lying to Nikki, to make Nikki think that Babs is definitely innocent. I really do agree with Nikki: Babs is a brilliant liar!!
abzug - March 22, 2007 01:50 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (ekny) |
| Because the final participant is ourselves; we *do* know how to read Shell vs the Julies in terms of intimidation, say--but Babs' stepchildren do not; to them it's presumably just as effective as the cons hope it will be. |
True, in this case we DO know what to take seriously and what not to take seriously. And you're right in that the audience's participation is key in this episode. You can sort of separate the various performances into the ones we know are performances (Di, the gigilo, the Julies) and the ones where we don't know (Babs, Yvonne testifying at Charlie's trial). Lisa made a good point:
| QUOTE (Lisa289) |
| we start wondering why she was considering hiring the detective. But then we realise that she's plainly lying to Nikki, to make Nikki think that Babs is definitely innocent. I really do agree with Nikki: Babs is a brilliant liar!! |
The idea that we, the audience, are so convinced Babs is telling the truth when in fact she's not shows how easy it is to play a pantomime, to lie so utterly that no one can tell the difference. And in the end, with Babs, it depends on the point of view. Nikki trusts her word, her step-children don't. This is true with Yvonne as well: Sylvia doesn't trust she's seeing a lawyer, Gina does. Different audiences, different assumptions, different interpretations.
I kind of like that they're playing with this theme again, given that it was such a strong motif in the first episode (opening with the rehearsal etc).
richard - March 22, 2007 06:59 PM (GMT)
I love the theme which has been pulled together of play acting and all the related posts. I would like to slightly qualify Abzug's post about Di. Where she and her mother are talking about going on holiday, Di's mother had that dominating personality to force Di into really being the dutiful daughter and agreeing to go to Spain despite her protestations. Her feelings of weakness only come into play in the physical field. The idea of the 'person behind the disability' is rightfully revisited again very successfully with Virginia O'Kane in the way that she really isn't disabled.
Another point struck me was the way that prisoner's calls can be listened into in the same way that their mail can be read.
abzug - March 22, 2007 11:28 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (richard) |
| Where she and her mother are talking about going on holiday, Di's mother had that dominating personality to force Di into really being the dutiful daughter and agreeing to go to Spain despite her protestations. Her feelings of weakness only come into play in the physical field. |
I think this is a really important point, that the mother is manipulative and abusive as well, just in the emotional sense. But I'd say that Di gives as good as she gets, with the business of pretending she didn't hurt her mother, and the threatening to take her vacation away or have her put in a home. So there's weakness on that level for Di's mother as well, that Di really does have the upper hand, and she's probably getting revenge for 30+ years of shitty mothering.
| QUOTE (richard) |
| Another point struck me was the way that prisoner's calls can be listened into in the same way that their mail can be read. |
Yeah, another way in which the prisoners are performing, although in this case for an unseen audience, of which they were unaware. So private communications inherently become public performances.
I had another thought about this fantasy vs real idea, which was related to Nikki's comment that Babs wasn't a real criminal like the rest of them. If someone is sent to prison who is not a "real" criminal, like Babs, then it means that a judge and/or jury thought they were a real criminal. So something we might assume to be an objective fact (Babs is a criminal in that she did end her husband's life, and was convicted of manslaughter), is really more about your point of view.
Lisa289 - March 23, 2007 12:41 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (abzug @ Mar 22 2007, 01:50 PM) |
The idea that we, the audience, are so convinced Babs is telling the truth when in fact she's not shows how easy it is to play a pantomime, to lie so utterly that no one can tell the difference. [...] Different audiences, different assumptions, different interpretations. |
Thanks for this, Abzug :)
richard - March 23, 2007 05:21 PM (GMT)
Spot on, abzug on all points and my only point to raise about criminality is that not everything that is criminal is immoral and the flipside is the 'legal rackets' that are operated outside prisons that don't get the perpetrators brought to justice.
abzug - September 21, 2007 01:41 PM (GMT)
Bump, in honor of yesterday's Logo broadcast....