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Title: S3Ep7 Discussion
Description: To act, or not to act, that is the qu...


abzug - April 17, 2007 05:35 PM (GMT)
I wasn't sure if ITV3 resumed their broadcasts this week, but since I watched the episode last night, I thought I'd get things rolling. I thought this episode offered a complex examination of how we human beings struggle to take action, to get or do the things that we want.

It opens with Sylvia's little throwaway exchange with Di about her bingo-playing. WHich is so full of slang that I seriously thought she was speaking Greek. Anyway, the point is, she was close, but did not win, the bingo jackpot. OK, whatever, fair enough. Then Di says "There's always next week." And Sylvia replies "Story of my life." So they set up this motif very early, the idea that some people can seize the day and be rewarded, and others feel like they are always waiting to get what they want.

There are a ton of little examples of this throughout the episode. The television crew jokes about the lack of security getting into Larkhall. In fact, one mentions it's harder to get through a supermarket checkout. Some things are easy to get through, and others hard. Obstacles can be physical (ie strip searches), but others can be psychological or bureaucratic. Karen has been hesitating about moving in with Fenner, and when she finally tells him she's ready she says "I haven't jumped the gun, have I?" There's a human caution of taking action too soon, without thought or judgment, which can lead to suffering, pushing people off etc. Similarly, Denny is unsure she wants to escape with Shell because it will mean leaving Shaz. But Shaz jumps right in and seizes the day, making Denny feel like the whole thing will be easy as pie. And then during the escape there are two more wonderful examples of this particular symbolism, the first when Shell can't get the car started because she doesn't realize it's in park, and the second when Shaz falls out of the truck and can't escape with Shell and Denny because her foot is literally tied to the truck.

There are two primary sufferers of this condition in this episode: Helen and Fenner. Helen, sadly, is struggling to take any action. She has a few attempts. She tries to lock the gate between herself and Fenner when he approaches her to apologize. She tries to gauge from Karen whether Karen will be sympathetic and supportive, or dismiss her (and decides Karen will dismiss her). She then sees Nikki, and this scene is incredibly interesting, starting from the moment when Nikki spots her, because Helen CAN NOT UNLOCK THE GATE! There's her lover, waiting on the other side, expressing concern, and Helen's key is just not working. She cannot open that door and allow herself to be close to Nikki. This to me is just so sad to watch. Helen finally gets through, and Nikki convinces her to confess what happened. The rest of the scene is Nikki urging action: Nikki wants to kill Fenner! (Helen says that wouldn't be a good idea). Nikki says do something! (Helen fantasizes about siccing Shell on Fenner). Nikki says go to Stubberfield and get Fenner fired! (Helen acknowledges, and Nikki is aware, that this probably isn't going to work). And then the two of them stare at eachother helplessly. There are two types of solutions, official channels and violence, and neither one is an option. And Helen is paralyzed.

Nikki, however, is constitutionally unable to just let things lie. She's the opposite of paralyzed, and she stalks Fenner, looking for her opportunity to take action against him. Gina thwarts her first attempt, out on the wing, but then she sees her chance when Fenner is alone in the office. However, her whole strategy is this brilliant combination of acting without acting. She goes to the edge, she puts her hand near the bottle, but she doesn't touch it, and she doesn't touch Fenner. She's taking psychological action only, and that's how she defends herself when Helen is outraged later. Nikki defends herself with "I didn't touch him!" to which Helen replies "No, but you wanted to." As always with Helen, there's no separation between thought and deed. In this weird way, Helen seems to almost value her own paralysis, her own inability to take action. She, Helen, also wanted to kill Fenner. She said so in the previous scene with Nikki. But her ability to repress that anti-social desire is something she sees as positive. That perspective is something she's going to have to overcome. Nikki knows this, which is why, when Helen says "There are ways of going about things other than violence" Nikki retorts "Yeah? You just haven't thought of one yet."

Another character desperate for a way to channel her rage is Buki. This is the second occasion we see her cutting herself, but the first where it's really explored. She talks to Stubberfield about wanting to release the rottenness inside her, which she then describes as storm, rage and anger. Violence against herself is her only option to get it out, because she can't commit violence against the people who have harmed her, so she actually has gone so far as to feel and enact anger and violence against herself instead. This is the tragedy of abused women, and I think we're meant to see it as a cautionary tale, a potential path Helen could head down. It's what Nikki is fighting against, on Helen's behalf.

Fenner's plan to help Shell escape is symbolically similar to Buki's cutting. He's trying to expunge himself of the fear and rage by releasing its source. He comes up with the plan, gets Shell to fake the diary, creates the keys, plants the evidence, and hopes to get rid of two enemies at once: Shell and Helen. Why is Fenner able to put this plan into place, given that he's been sulking and suffering for 3-4 episodes now? It's not until after Nikki intimidates him that he approaches Shell with the idea. So Nikki's act did have an effect.

This introduces the idea of the power of teamwork in taking action, making changes. Helen insists to Nikki that each of the two of them should fight their own battles: "This is my battle. You concentrate on fighting your own." But Helen is way off base, as the rest of this episode demonstrates. Shell's escape requires teamwork. She needs help from the Julies to create a distraction so she can get out of the chapel. She needs Fenner to give her all the tools of escape. And not only that, she doesn't want to be alone when she gets out, so she recruits Denny to join her. Action requires teamwork and support, and that is something Helen is denying herself. No wonder she is paralyzed.

There's another theme to this episode which also plays into this idea of the things that enable or prevent characters from taking action. It's the idea of performance. So many characters ham it up for the television cameras: Bodybag, Shell, Stubberfield, etc. All of them lie, baldly, to tell a story of how they want others to see them, rather than how they are. All of them are so transparent and awkward, it's almost ridiculous to watch, particularly as we see the gullible reactions from the television crew. Strikingly, Fenner won't let himself be filmed. And yet he's the biggest actor of them all! But Fenner knows the real point of acting. It's not to change how others see you. Acting enables you to act. Or, to sound like Gertrude Stein-y, being able to perform is what enables characters to take action, rather than allow themselves to be stuck or paralyzed. Shell wouldn't have gotten the keys in the chapel if she hadn't put on the show of penitence and walked up to the altar. The Julies put on a show in the chapel to create a distraction. Fenner acts like he didn't know three people would be missing (well, he probably didn't know THREE people would be missing) from the chapel.

Helen, on the other hand, is such an authentic person, she can't possibly perform in this way. Not even at the level Nikki can, when she intimidates Fenner in the office. And by denying herself any support, she truly cements herself in, with no productive channel for her anger. No wonder she takes it out on Nikki a few episodes from now!

abzug - April 18, 2007 05:57 PM (GMT)
And here I had thought I was getting a discussion going, and it seems I stifled one instead! Not my intention!

So, one of the most provative issues in this episode, I think, is Nikki's reaction to Helen's confession, both in the moment, and then her behavior with Fenner later. And then Helen's very upset/hostile reaction to Nikki. I know lots of folks have expressed concerns about these scenes, and wished Helen and/or Nikki could have behaved/reacted differently. I know for me personally, when Helen tells Nikki about the assault, I want Nikki to say something like "I am so sorry this has happened to you!" but she says nothing of the kind, offers no comfort, or, no verbal comfort (one could argue her eyes say volumes). It seems such a shift from the Nikki who comforted Helen in S1E9. Is this because they're in public? But Nikki still could have used words....

Any thoughts about this scene or the others?

Lisa289 - April 18, 2007 06:42 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (abzug @ Apr 17 2007, 05:35 PM)
I wasn't sure if ITV3 resumed their broadcasts this week

As far as I know, ITV3 did broadcast this episode on Monday night. But I went to a gig on Sunday and was absolutely knackered, so went to bed straight after work at 10:30. And I haven't had chance to start the discussion, so thanks abzug for getting it started. And with such a great opening post as well :)

QUOTE (abzug)
[Helen] tries to lock the gate between herself and Fenner when he approaches her to apologize.

I just want to say that I actually really like this scene. Although we see Helen struggling, we also see that she has some fight inside her and she can stand up to Fenner, even after what he did. I admire her actions in this scene. She tries to get away, but when she sees that she is going to have to converse with him, she let's him know exactly how she feels. In fact, the first thing she says to him after he tries to apologise is, "You assaulted me". I think this was one of the most important things she says to him; she's letting him know exactly what he did and that she's not going to brush past it. Then she tries to get out of him what he thinks he actually did, and he actually does brush past this, saying "Apology accepted then?" But then Helen makes a bit of a mistake, in telling him "If I thought I had and I ought to have a chance of anyone believing what happened, I'd have you sacked in a second". With this statement, she's letting him know that she's not prepared to tell anybody, namely those higher than him (Stubberfield/Area), so he thinks he's gotten away with assaulting her. But when Helen makes a move to leave, he turns nasty and decides to scare her for a little. Now this is where Helen comes back out on top: she clarifies that she feels no sympathy for the stabbing and she knows he was somewhat to blame. Her final line in this scene ("I hope she's that much luckier") is a great ending to the scene and the look on Fenner's face is a picture! He knows realises that brushing past the matter was not so simple after all.
And I just had another little thought. Fenner can't brush past the "Helen" matter, and it's as if Shed don't want to just brush past it either. This is the very first scene in the episode, and Helen actually appears in the next three scenes. (When she enters the POs office asking to see Karen, in Karen's office, and the garden scene with Nikki). For the first 5 or so minutes of the episode, the only character that the viewer is completely concentrated on is Helen.

QUOTE (abzug)

  She cannot open that door and allow herself to be close to Nikki.  This to me is just so sad to watch.

I know what you mean, abzug! This is such an emotional scene, but it's an immensely wonderful one too. Everything you've said about this scene is spot on. At the beginning of the scene, Helen shows signs of not wanting to tell Nikki, or anyone else for that matter. But when she turns around, her whole facial expression tells a different story: you can see that she's dying to tell someone what's going on in her head. And she knows she can trust Nikki, but she just needs a push in the right direction. And Nikki gives her that push, by showing her concern for Helen's wellbeing and clarifying the trust they share. When Helen actually says "He assaulted me", her voice is so choked with emotion that it's obvious how much he hurt her. But Nikki doesn't quite put the words with the direct emotion, realising it was sexual assault. Not until Helen says, "between my legs". Helen doesn't even say "sexually" - I don't think she ever actually says, until the report she files, that he "sexually assaulted" her. Nikki is the one who says, "he sexually assaulted you". This is the first time she's told somebody else about the assault, but she still can't bring herself to say it was sexual. Saying the words out loud just makes it all to real: you can see that when she says "between my legs", her voice is so broken and hushed that it is actually better than if she would have said "sexually". She lowers her voice slightly in this line, and it's as if she doesn't want to hear the words herself; but she wants Nikki to hear them.

QUOTE (abzug)
Helen replies "No, but you <i>wanted</i> to."  As always with Helen, there's no separation between thought and deed.

I like the way you've noted the seperation between thought and deed here, abzug. As we all know, Helen noted the similarity she saw between thought and deed in "Shit Happens", and she shows in this episode that she still sees that similarity.


QUOTE (abzug)
Another character desperate for a way to channel her rage is Buki.  This is the second occasion we see her cutting herself, but the first where it's really explored.  She talks to Stubberfield about wanting to release the rottenness inside her, which she then describes as storm, rage and anger.

I think the scene between Buki and Stubberfield in this episode is amazing. The film crew are there, and Stubberfield doesn't want any bad publicity. So he won't listen to what Buki's saying: he's showing he doesn't actually care of the prisoners' welfare, more his own welfare.

QUOTE (abzug)
   Why is Fenner able to put this plan into place, given that he's been sulking and suffering for 3-4 episodes now?  It's not until after Nikki intimidates him that he approaches Shell with the idea.  So Nikki's act did have an effect.

I'm glad you mentioned this. I've often wondered this about Fenner too. I think Nikki's intimidation pushes him to getting rid of his two enemies (Shell and Helen). Although he's had warring with Nikki before, he sees Helen as a bigger problem and Helen as somewhat responsible for Nikki's behaviour in prison. If he gets rid of Helen, he thinks that Nikki won't be as pushy towards him. Obviously, we know Nikki better than he does!

richard - April 18, 2007 07:46 PM (GMT)
I thought I'd kick off by taking a different tack in describing this episode was partly one of Shed's overtly political ones (another is the tabloid press in relation to Charlotte Middleton.)
I watched with total incredulity Stubberfield's incompetence in drawing up controls of the TV team and the way he was fatally lured towards the idea of publicity. He assumed that questions would be cleared with him first (how - as they film) that no one would be filmed if they didn't want to and without a thought as to how it would be enforced. The produced cleverly skipped over the agenda and played him for a sucker in going along with the filming of 'Stubby' something and you knew that it would end up on the cutting room floor. Curiously, Fenner's paranoia about a 'stitch up' was actually right and likewise for Di. Helen obviously had similar reservations but felt so insecure and threatened not to say her piece. The TV film crew milked the opportunities for all they were worth and Stubberfield's attempt to talk to Buki clearly lacked the Helen touch, one of the few occasions that he did anything and his vain hope that 'I trust you won't be using any of this.'.
It was all summed up by Julie S in saying 'They never think' as they didn't see that there were those who didn't want to be on film and Shell who exploited it for her own purposes. Another curiosity is that both Helen and Fenner saw Shell 'getting far too friendly with Chris, the soundman' but Karen never picked up on this.

Going on to further points, Helen curiously was on top form in dealing with the very pushy producer who wanted to film the lifer's unit. She claimed her authority and one of the most superb lines came in response to the line 'I'm only doing my job' which is a Fenner line and Helen's response 'not historically a great excuse' invites the audience to link it in with the Nuremburn judgment on those in the Nazi regime claiming this as a defence.

Harking back to the aftermath of the sexual assault, one point keeps ringing in my mind and that is the outside scene when Nikki found out what had gone on. It would be utterly normal for Nikki to lead her away and comfort her in some private room. However both of them were conscious of others around and paralysed in terms of going elsewhere. On top of that, the scene is deliberately cut short which makes for an appearance of paralysis. It invites the question as to what would have happened immediately afterwards.

There is a strange interplay immediately after Nikki terrifies Fenner. 'Jealousy, anger is not what Helen looks for in someone' seems to hark back to Nikki's bust up over Dominic. On the other hand, what Helen describes to Nikki about Fenner and her manner gives Nikki an immediate flashback to Nikki finding DC Gossard on the point of raping Trisha and the similarities between Gossard and Fenner seem very striking (perhaps being part cause of their antagonism?)

Nikki goes out of her way to apologise for her behaviour and one dodgy Helen moment was saying to Nikki 'Why don't you fight your own battles?' Up till then Nikki had worked on the basis that either of their problems was the two of theirs. This is counterposed by Helen 'working her arse off' for Nikki's appeal, all going to show that Helen is not best judged by what she says.

On top of that, I agree with all the really good posts.

Lisa289 - April 18, 2007 07:55 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (richard @ Apr 18 2007, 07:46 PM)
Going on to further points, Helen curiously was on top form in dealing with the very pushy producer who wanted to film the lifer's unit. She claimed her authority and one of the most superb lines came in response to the line 'I'm only doing my job' which is a Fenner line and Helen's response 'not historically a great excuse' invites the audience to link it in with the Nuremburn judgment on those in the Nazi regime claiming this as a defence.

Hey richard, I totally forgot to say anything about this scene. Strange, as it's one of my favourites. But you made a connection that I'd never seen before: Fiona's "I'm only doing my job" line being a typical Fenner line. Then when you mentioned Helen's response, I was surprised at your interpretation of it. This is what I was actually expecting to read, seeing as you'd mentioned that the previous line was one typical of Fenner to say;

When Helen says "not historically a great excuse", she's thinking of Fenner's arguments about "only doing his job". Because this is something Fenner would say (and has said in the past), I think Helen would have noticed this and known that historically, in Fenner's case, it's a crap excuse. Because Fenner abuses his power from his job that he's "only doing".

msalt - April 18, 2007 08:16 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Lisa289 @ Apr 18 2007, 07:55 PM)
it's one of my favourites. But you made a connection that I'd never seen before: Fiona's "I'm only doing my job" line being a typical Fenner line. Then when you mentioned Helen's response, I was surprised at your interpretation of it. This is what I was actually expecting to read, seeing as you'd mentioned that the previous line was one typical of Fenner to say;

When Helen says "not historically a great excuse", she's thinking of Fenner's arguments about "only doing his job". Because this is something Fenner would say (and has said in the past), I think Helen would have noticed this and known that historically, in Fenner's case, it's a crap excuse. Because Fenner abuses his power from his job that he's "only doing".

i love this line of helen's. def. one of the top few lines in the entire 3 series for me. and lisa, i don't agree that helen's use of the word "historically" would apply to fenner. here i think historically really means throughout history, not just mini-larkhall history. plus that just makes it that much more cutting to fiona, who knows nothing of larkhall or fenner, but does know she was just compared to all sorts of mindlessly evil minions from the past.

also, i don't think of that line (only doing my job) as very fenner-y at all. much more like something sylvia would say, it seems to me. fenner's not the sort of creep who would do something he didn't particularly like but felt obligated to do, and then act defensive about it. he's a different sort of creep. the kind who delights in doing mean job-related things, and then shoves it in people's faces that being such a jerk is actually part of his job! he gets paid to be a creep!

i suppose there are probably several instances where fenner does use that line, but it still sounds more defensive than something i expect from him.

ekny - April 18, 2007 09:19 PM (GMT)
Hi msalt, I firmly support your & Richard's readings in favor of the Nazi-comparison. Anything else would be a far second--not to gang up on Lisa289: I try to be open to different interpretations but there's just never been a question in my mind that Helen's making a very, *very* clear political point here. My support for that reading is simple: without getting Helen's reference, there's no joke. And it's a superb bit of humor at Fiona's expense, which F. roundly deserves. So it would be a shame to miss it. ;)

I don't feel as strongly abt the Fenner thing, but would say Shed's been quite careful since day 1 (littrally) to set up a series of top-down verbal echoes around Policy. And (appropriately for the sake of the point I'm going to make--sorry, bad form!), this example shows the distance Helen's come, as well, in terms of understanding the nuances of the bureaucracy she's working under:

After her showdown with Nikki, what, 15, 20 minutes into ep1, Helen says to Fenner:

"I had to face a near riot out there because of what she let happen, so don't blame me for coming down heavy."

The next words we hear uttered are as a harassed Fenner trails up the stairs after a temperamental Shell--and what are they?

"Shell, don't blame me."


So yes, I think Shed's been both clear (and wonderfully economic) about helping us understand how to read their show from the start. And part of the point throughout is about how responsibility and its opposite, blame, skitter round. They're moving targets.

Helen's too new on the job, initially, to handle herself better, but the real point of that neat transition, I always thought, was that any excuse would have done for Fenner. Whatever came down from the top could be used or misused. (And of course Fenner doesn't really recognize Helen as his boss anyway.)

abzug - April 18, 2007 09:40 PM (GMT)
Wow, great discussion all around. And here I was worried that nothing had gotten going, and now we've got so many sides of this episode opened up for examination. I love it.

QUOTE (richard)
Going on to further points, Helen curiously was on top form in dealing with the very pushy producer who wanted to film the lifer's unit. She claimed her authority

I really like this idea of "claiming authority" and I think it plays into the idea of the cameras and the television documentary really effectively. I'm sort of rehashing what you already pointed out, when you talked about Stubby saying "You won't be using this" after the Buki confrontation. The idea that the camera (and, really, the person who is behind the camera, the director) claims ultimate authority. Anyone who lets themself be filmed no longer has control over themselves, no matter how much they might perform the version of themselves they want others to see. Sylvia wanders through the wing explaining "free flow" while the real free flow happens behind her as Shaz and Denny kiss and mug for the camera. So Helen does claim authority in not allowing the Lifer's Meeting to be on camera.

But unlike Fenner, who also refuses to let himself be filmed, she doesn't ever quite assert her authority over the other factors that threaten her, such as Fenner. Instead, she claims authority over Nikki! Is that because she's projecting herself onto Nikki, given that the action Nikki took is probably one she would have wanted to take herself?

This idea kind of leads into the point ekny just made:
QUOTE (ekny)
And part of the point throughout is about how responsibility and its opposite, blame, skitter round. They're moving targets.

Because, in a way, this episode is also about shifting blame--Fenner blaming Helen for Shell's attack on him (hello? dude, you were in her cell, ready to fuck her!), Helen blaming Nikki for having rage against Fenner, rather than channeling her rage against Fenner, which is where it belongs. Or against herself for doing nothing.

QUOTE (richard)
There is a strange interplay immediately after Nikki terrifies Fenner. 'Jealousy, anger is not what Helen looks for in someone' seems to hark back to Nikki's bust up over Dominic. On the other hand, what Helen describes to Nikki about Fenner and her manner gives Nikki an immediate flashback to Nikki finding DC Gossard on the point of raping Trisha and the similarities between Gossard and Fenner seem very striking (perhaps being part cause of their antagonism?)

I like this point a lot, because it shows how much baggage there is, for both characters, both in relation to eachother, and from events that happened long before they ever met. This Fenner assault created sort of a perfect storm of emotional turmoil for these two, at a time when they were least equipped to deal with it and resolve it productively. It got them both in their deepest, darkest places, emotionally-speaking.

Lisa289, great breakdown of the Helen-Fenner and Helen-Nikki scenes at the top of the episode.

Lisa289 - April 19, 2007 10:43 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (ekny @ Apr 18 2007, 09:19 PM)
Hi msalt, I firmly support your & Richard's readings in favor of the Nazi-comparison. Anything else would be a far second--not to gang up on Lisa289: I try to be open to different interpretations but there's just never been a question in my mind that Helen's making a very, *very* clear political point here.

Hi guys, I feel the need to say something here. To defend my reasoning, if you will :)

When I mentioned Helen meaning "historically" to mean Fenner, I knew Fiona wouldn't actually get this joke. Fiona would think it to mean that Helen was referring to points in universal history. But I think, somewhere in Helen's mind, she did make a connection to Fenner. And she's not the only one in the room who could have made this connection: Nikki is facing Helen when she says this line, and has a big smile on her face.

richard - April 19, 2007 03:25 PM (GMT)
I agree with Lisa on this one. 'Historically' is Shed writing to take in the attitude of the 'good obedient nazi functionaries' and, by implication, before that. Helen knows very well that Fenner will play the system to his advantage as will Bodybag when it suits her purposes but Helen is up against 'old school PO values' (as later shown up in Bodybag's husband trying to reenter the prison service). I'm pretty sure I've heard Fenner say at one time 'rules is rules' so within this sweep, Shed, through Helen, targets Larkhall. As Lisa quite rightly says, Nikki's grin showed that she got the point very clearly. I very much like ekny's idea of blame and am struck by the contrast between now and the Helen quote that she selected.

What is of interest is the quite immorality and amorality of the TV crew who clearly show how there is a general lack of understanding at Larkhall just how much power they have to edit what they've filmed, that the likes of Bodybag simply do not know how they can be stitched up 9a Fenner phrase) and that they are wide open to being manipulated.

Abzug makes the striking point of the irony of just how little power Helen has of her own situation in contrast with the changes that she creates for others.

Lisa289 - April 20, 2007 10:22 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (richard @ Apr 19 2007, 03:25 PM)
I agree with Lisa on this one. [...] As Lisa quite rightly says, Nikki's grin showed that she got the point very clearly.

Thanks richard :) I would never have actually brought up the "Fenner as historically" thing if you hadn't mentioned that Fiona's line was a Fenner-like thing to say. So I'm glad you agreed with me on it :)

abzug - April 20, 2007 02:02 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (richard @ Apr 19 2007, 10:25 AM)
What is of interest is the quite immorality and amorality of the TV crew who clearly show how there is a general lack of understanding at Larkhall just how much power they have to edit what they've filmed, that the likes of Bodybag simply do not know how they can be stitched up 9a Fenner phrase) and that they are wide open to being manipulated.

Shed is definitely making a general statement about the media, and a more pointed statement at non-fiction television, from news to documentaries to reality tv. I wonder if it's also a jab at the press who always wrote about Bad Girls as a soap, rather than as a serious political drama. Essentially saying, you think a documentary news program is more accurate than we are? Think again!

richard - April 20, 2007 07:05 PM (GMT)
I had never thought of that one, Abzug but there is a passage where Stubberfield says to Fiona that 'my wife watches all the docusoaps. Can't get enough of them.' It makes sense to skewer the supposedly 'fly on the wall' documentaries as not the truth they appear to be, adroitly show the mechanics and agendsa in their making and insist, quite rightly, on the greater truth of their vision of 'Bad Girls' despite preconceptions to the contrary. They have laid down particular and general truths, all within a framework including the emotional fireworks between Nikki and Helen and the escape.

popstalin - April 20, 2007 09:44 PM (GMT)
The one thing that has always, always, always bothered me about this episode is Helen's shock in Nikki's response to Fenner. Helen's lover is in prison for "protecting" the woman she loved from a sexual assualt in a "most vicious manner."

I think an argument can be made that the reason Helen told Nikki about the assault is that she subconciously wanted someone to stand up for her since she wasn't able. The whole "let's hope next time she's that much luckier" could be seen as an indicator that she wanted Fenner punished for what he did and it's shortly after this scene that she confides to Nikki what happened.

Another issue I have is the scene in Nikki's cell after her Fenner confrontation. Helen says she's not usually attracted to someone who has feelings of anger, violence and jealousy but she knowingly is involved with someone who has demonstrated she has all those feelings/capabilities and as we all know ends up with that same person in the end. I know she wishes to change those parts of Nikki but they are still there nonetheless.

Having said all that, I thought it was a brilliantly acted scene by Ellis and Jones. It gives me goosebumps each time I watch it and secretly inside there's a little piece of me that wanted to see Nikki do Fenner—does that make me a bad person?





abzug - April 20, 2007 10:11 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (popstalin @ Apr 20 2007, 04:44 PM)
I think an argument can be made that the reason Helen told Nikki about the assault is that she subconciously wanted someone to stand up for her since she wasn't able. The whole "let's hope next time she's that much luckier" could be seen as an indicator that she wanted Fenner punished for what he did and it's shortly after this scene that she confides to Nikki what happened.

Excellent point! I think you're absolutely right. And Helen told Nikki as much when she said the only thing she could think of to do to Fenner was lock him in a cell with Shell Dockley. But I'm not surprised Helen was surprised that Nikki saw underneath to Helen's true desires. This pattern has been true for them since the beginning. Helen communicates desires to Nikki that she is not aware of. Nikki responds to those desires. Helen is upset and astonished. Helen is just not very self-aware about some of this stuff. :)

QUOTE (popstalin)
Another issue I have is the scene in Nikki's cell after her Fenner confrontation. Helen says she's not usually attracted to someone who has feelings of anger, violence and jealousy but she knowingly is involved with someone who has demonstrated she has all those feelings/capabilities and as we all know ends up with that same person in the end. I know she wishes to change those parts of Nikki but they are still there nonetheless.

I always read this scene as being a moment when Helen is truly fear driven. She's fearful about Fenner's retaliation against her. She's fearful about Fenner's retaliation against Nikki. She's fearful Nikki will not be successful in her appeal and she (Helen) will be left alone. So anything she says needs to be taken with an enormous grain of salt, since it's essentially coming out of the mouth of a (momentarily) raving lunatic who can't think straight. She wants to hurt and scare Nikki as much as she is hurt and scared, and calling Nikki violent and jealous are hitting two of Nikki's vulnerable insecurities. In addition, as you pointed out, in this scene the things Helen says she doesn't want are also the things that (subconsciously) she DOES want. Nikki's anger (when directed towards those who deserve it) is something Helen was attracted to way back in season 1, because it demonstrated Nikki's strength and integrity. So it's a very complex communication from Helen overall.

QUOTE (popstalin)
Having said all that, I thought it was a brilliantly acted scene by Ellis and Jones. It gives me goosebumps each time I watch it and secretly inside there's a little piece of me that wanted to see Nikki do Fenner—does that make me a bad person?

Yes. :guns

ekny - April 20, 2007 10:20 PM (GMT)
I'd just like to add (I know I've already pointed this out elsewhere) that this is one of the most obvious places to hear what Lahbib does with her voice: the air's barely coming out of her throat (the other place is the 3.1 breakup of course). Helen's angry, sure, but she dead scared, really panicked.

richard - April 21, 2007 11:54 AM (GMT)
My thanks for the last three posts which have certainly uncovered hidden dimensions to this episode. I was going to add to ekny's post about Simone's very real talent in using her voice in the scene where she tells Nikki about what happened to Sally Ann Howe how her voice deepens and becomes huskier to register her shock at how the police officer was paychologically abused by her colleagues.
I was going to move on to the scene where Helen tells Nikki to 'fight her own battles' and link it in to the themes explored above. It sounds as if Helen is emotionally 'battening down the hatches' - as if the only security she feels she has is if everything is directly in her control- even not permitting Nikki to act on Helen's behalf. There is something incongruous about the scene as this is in response to Nikki's apology- even if Nikki is responding to what Helen unconsciously wants.

solitasolano - April 22, 2007 03:54 AM (GMT)
By Helen telling Nikki about the assault, she makes it Nikki's business. So of course Nikki makes it here business. Stalking Fenner is exactly what she does and finally corners him in the office...But what I want to know, is how does Fenner know that Nikki is talking about the assault when she calls him a first class bastard? Was something maybe cut here? Fenner responds as if Helen has told Nikki. He immediately replies, "Women like that sort of thing, anyway, real women that is." Throughtout the whole series, I love the way Fenner and Nikki torment each other as their way of interacting.

The apology scene isn't so much incongruous, it's what Helen yells at Nikki when she tries to apologize here which doesn't jive with the dynamic from the time Helen confesses to Nikki about the assault early in the episode. That Helen sterning admonishes Nikki, "This (Fenner's assault) is my battle, why don't you concentrate on your own," is sorta 180 degrees from what Helen yells at Nikki in her cell, "There goes your appeal out the window. I've been working my arse off to get you out of here or haven't you noticed?" Talk about a double message. She contradicts herself. First Helen almost complains about all the effort she's put into Nikki's appeal gone unnoticed, then she won't let Nikki recipocate by "helping" her with her battle against Fenner, plus now she's dumping Nikki's appeal fight back onto her. I find Helen to be full of contradictory actions in Series 3. This tendency cause she and Nikki to meet at cross purposes again and again.

P.S. I love the Dockley to Fenner line about Helen, "You plannin to dump her innit?


microsofty - April 22, 2007 11:05 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (solitasolano @ Apr 22 2007, 03:54 AM)
By Helen telling Nikki about the assault, she makes it Nikki's business.  So of course Nikki makes it here business.  Stalking Fenner is exactly what she does and finally corners him in the office...But what I want to know, is how does Fenner know that Nikki is talking about the assault when she  calls him a first class bastard?  ... He immediately replies, "Women like that sort of thing, anyway, real women that is."

After watching this episode again last night, I share your confusion on this matter solitasolano.

Throughout all three seasons we always see Nikki's actions as a reaction: verbally attacking Helen about Carol's miscarriage; attacking Shell after her bad joke about Rachel's death; slapping Dominic after being provoked by Fenner; etc etc. Nikki wasn't the sort of person who went about intimidating and/or attacking people just because she felt like it. I'm quite sure the screws (Fenner in particular) was aware of this fact, they just chose to ignore it and put Nikki down as a "trouble maker". We, as the viewers, know that Nikki intimidating/threatening Fenner is a reaction on the assault, Nikki defending Helen's honour. But yeah, how did Fenner know that? Also the look that Helen gives Fenner after Nikki leaves the office says something like "Watch it. That's my girlfriend you know. You mess with me, you mess with her".

This whole scene got me thinking that maybe Helen was now, on top of her paralyses on what to do about the assault, also scared that her and Nikki's relationship would be exposed. (Talk about making a bad situation worse). It is not as if Nikki would've reacted the same way if Fenner, for example, assaulted Di. Nikki's whole reaction was because of her feelings for Helen "I've got feelings, you know". And those feelings were clearly displayed to Fenner - someone who always manages to twist things and use it to his advantage.

richard - April 22, 2007 11:55 AM (GMT)
Microsoftly and solitano have pointed out a number of interesting questions which deserve close attention.
The whole scene between Nikki and Fenner is incredibly well acted and written. The tone of Nikki's voice is very soft when she first asks Fenner for the complaint form. Fenner falls for it in being uncooperative and Nikki implies menace in the disproportionate anger in calling him a 'first class bastard' and also in not 'warming up' into getting angry. As mocrosoftly says, Nikki never starts anything without provocation which Fenner must recognise. Nikki uses that to tell Fenner that she knows what he's done but in not so many words. Right throughout the exchanges, Nikki has the advantage in turning Fenner's taunts back on him and also you get the feeling that this is Nikki's revenge on Gossard by proxy.
Helen's reaction is wierd as she is wanting to fight Nikki's battle- her appeal- but not letting Nikki fight her battle. The nearest I can come to an answer is that, if Helen is feeling insecure, then she has to be the one in control. Letting Nikki take action on her own would surrender that control.
An interesting point is raised that while Helen has been instrumental in saving Shell from being shipped out to a 'muppet farm', Shell reverts to type in being willing to help Fenner drop Helen in it and allying herself with Fenner despite the stabbing incident and her tormenting Fenner.

Lisa289 - April 22, 2007 11:56 AM (GMT)
I actually never thought Fenner knew Nikki was talking about the assault. That was until Helen stormed in. The way Helen entered the office, saying Nikki's name, showed that she knew what Nikki was doing and she was trying to stop her. I agree with microsofty re the look Helen gives Fenner when Nikki leaves. I think Helen realises at this point that it's very possible that Fenner has clicked about them, and she's kind of warning him of it.

microsofty - April 22, 2007 12:21 PM (GMT)
Fenner clicked on long ago:

S2E6: the look he gives Nikki after visiting speaks volumes. Also when he winds Nikki up about Helen's (pseudo) letter "... very affectionate... she likes you..."
S2E7: "I know you didn't come back to see me... how was the reunion by the way?... I guess Simon is up to speed with the situation..."
S2E13: "Looks like it's going to be a while before she gets it up for you..."

Apart from that, Fenner knew Nikki was on about the assault, as solitasolano pointed out.

I also have to agree with you, richard, on Helen always wanting to be in control. But I want to add that it also seems as if, as soon as things start heating up for Helen, the first thing she wants to do is to switch off her emotions by reverting back to cold facts "that's your appeal out the window... I've been working my butt off if you haven't noticed..." From a psychological point of view, Helen has a complete reaction formation on the situation: deep down she is actually PROUD of Nikki for standing up to the likes of Fenner, but she can't admit this, because that would be admitting to her feelings for Nikki that is now supposed to be "suspended". So instead of being grateful, she takes the complete opposite route and attacks Nikki for her seemingly "stupidity". Also interesting to note is the fact that all these negative emotions that Helen accuses Nikki of having (jealously, violence, etc.) are all suppressed emotions in Helen herself. She would have loved to get the upper hand on Fenner, but someone else has got to do it ("sticking him in a cell with Shell Dockley", telling Nikki who she KNEW would react). So again Nikki was spot on in zooming in on Helen's suppressed emotions (that she's trying to hide so desperately) by saying "yeah, you just haven't thought of any" in response to Helen saying there are ways to go about things other than violence.

abzug - April 22, 2007 01:55 PM (GMT)
Wow great discussion here to wake up to! I really like the points everyone has made.

QUOTE (microsofty)
the first thing she wants to do is to switch off her emotions by reverting back to cold facts "that's your appeal out the window... I've been working my butt off if you haven't noticed..."

I agreed with the general ideas of your post, microsofty, but not this one. I've always interpreted Helen's "your appeal out the window" line as borderline hysterical. A total overreaction (as is proved later, given that Nikki's appeal went just fine), rather than a repression. Helen is just Freaking Out, and this (as you point out) is the way she can blame Nikki, shifting the focus to Nikki's behavior, rather than her own feelings and anger. But her feelings aren't repressed, they're more like displaced. No?

Cassandra - April 22, 2007 02:40 PM (GMT)
Great discussion.

QUOTE (abzug @ Apr 22 2007, 01:55 PM)
I've always interpreted Helen's "your appeal out the window" line as borderline hysterical.  A total overreaction (as is proved later, given that Nikki's appeal went just fine), rather than a repression.  Helen is just Freaking Out, and this (as you point out) is the way she can blame Nikki, shifting the focus to Nikki's behavior, rather than her own feelings and anger.
Yeah, I always assumed that Helen was completely panicking at this stage and just lashing out at Nikki. Not sure how much of her anger is also due to frustration at not having a solution to deal with Fenner herself.

There's some brilliant acting from Ellis, Jones & Lahbib in this episode - you can really feel all the emotion and tension that's going on. Just luv it! :)

microsofty - April 22, 2007 02:54 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (abzug @ Apr 22 2007, 03:55 PM)
But her feelings aren't repressed, they're more like displaced.  No?

Just on a point of clarification: what do you mean by "displaced"?

solitasolano - April 22, 2007 03:01 PM (GMT)
Oh I like all the comments since I posted last night.
Helen freaked, Helen suppressing her feelings, Helen's need to control. Nikki action, Nikki to the rescue because she can't help it, Fenner as Gossard by proxy. Their two different styles are contrasted so well in this episode, to their's and this viewer's frustration. But oh, isn't that what drama is all about, no?

mircosofty, I agree Fenner is on to the gov and her pet, knows they are tight, so I must assume thro Fenner's quick response to Nikki's bastard line he knows she knows. Also love your point about Helen sorta overcompenstating for her own lack of action against Fenner by lashing out at Nikki.
QUOTE
So instead of being grateful, she takes the complete opposite route and attacks Nikki for her seemingly "stupidity". Also interesting to note is the fact that all these negative emotions that Helen accuses Nikki of having (jealously, violence, etc.) are all suppressed emotions in Helen herself. She would have loved to get the upper hand on Fenner, but someone else has got to do it ("sticking him in a cell with Shell Dockley"

Feels like the beginning of the end, N&H RIP. I'll fight my battles you fight yours. Where do are two girls pick up next? The Helen putting Fionna/filmcrew in her place doesn't really count. Nikki couldn't grin wider in appreciation of top dog Helen, but she's not the one who wants to suspress the relationship. I had to look ahead, next time they meet is after Helen becomes #1. Nikki feels shuffled to the back and with good reason.
Season 1 ...the firt. Season 2...the burn. Season 3 the suppression.

Edited to add: oops mircosofty I was composing and didn't see your response. Don't mean to speak for abzug but I believe she means Helens displaced anger and frustration, etc from Fenner where it should be aimed towards Nikki. abzug, correct me if I'm wrong.

abzug - April 22, 2007 03:10 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (solitasolano @ Apr 22 2007, 10:01 AM)
Edited to add: oops mircosofty I was composing and didn't see your response. Don't mean to speak for abzug but I believe she means Helens displaced anger and frustration, etc from Fenner where it should be aimed towards Nikki. abzug, correct me if I'm wrong.

Yup, that's exactly what I meant. :)

microsofty - April 22, 2007 03:25 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (abzug @ Apr 22 2007, 05:10 PM)
QUOTE (solitasolano @ Apr 22 2007, 10:01 AM)
Edited to add: oops mircosofty I was composing and didn't see your response.  Don't mean to speak for abzug but I believe she means Helens displaced anger and frustration, etc from Fenner where it should be aimed towards Nikki.  abzug, correct me if I'm wrong.

Yup, that's exactly what I meant. :)

So true. The fact then that Helen displaces this anger is actually so ironic in a sense. Let me try and explain: when they were together, both of them never seemed to feel secure in the relationship. Now that they are in one of their "off" stages again, Helen feels so secure that she is lashing out at Nikki without fear of rejection or other (long term) repercussions. Its as if she somehow knows Nikki will let it slide.

The other thing that I find very interesting about this whole scene is the lack of "correction" the prison service offered Nikki in terms of her behaviour. Years have passed, but here we find her again in (sort of) exactly the same position that landed her in prison in the first place: with a bottle, a man in uniform who sexually threatened her girlfriend, and her defending said girlfriend through an act of violence (or the intent to act violently).


Mad Maggot - April 22, 2007 03:53 PM (GMT)

I agree with the point that popstalin has made about Helen telling Nikki about the assault because she subconsciously wanted Nikki to stand up for her. And it’s not like Helen didn’t know what kind of character and temperament Nikki has and yet she still told her. I wonder if she expected Nikki to say she’s sorry about it, then dismiss it, sit down and start polishing her nails. Nikki by nature has a protective character, it’s in her essence to stand up for “the weak” and fight with injustice. Helen certainly wanted to be comforted, but she was well aware of the kind of comfort Nikki can offer in a situation like this one.

Which brings me to another “comforting point”, S1Ep9 where Helen went to Nikki’s cell looking for comfort and, shockingly enough, Nikki gave her the kind of comfort that she could give. I hope none of this sounds like I’m bashing Helen, because I’m not, but she doesn’t seem to be in tune with her inner self. [I just scrolled down from popstalin’s post and saw that I nearly repeated everything abzug’s written.. oh well, so much for attentive.]

And as ekny and richard point out, Simone’s control over her voice is impressive. It seems like her vocal cords are the epicenter of her emotions. The scene after the confrontation with Fenner is superb.

I’m not sure how to take Helen’s “why don’t you concentrate on fighting your own [battle]?” though. It sounded very dismissive to me and in a way I was reminded me of “Shit happens” although the latter wasn’t harsh. Basically, Helen tells Nikki not to poke her nose in her business and to leave her to sort out her stuff on her own. And nice points there about Helen’s control issues, richard and microsofty, Helen wants to be the sole dictator when it comes to herself and Nikki dealing with any sort of situation. Also, she suppresses a whole lot of emotions when it comes to other people, but she pours out a lot of negativism onto Nikki. Nikki’s (rhetorical) question later that season whether Helen ever considered therapy is not all that unreasonable. Which brings up another point here --- Helen tells Nikki about Fenner’s assault and Nikki interferes (what causes Helen to lash out at her and accuse her of being angry, jealous and violent) and later apologizes, but when Helen, upon breaking up with Nikki, catches her kissing Caroline in the library, she ships her out and tells Nikki she’s “waaay off” when Nikki accuses her of being jealous and says she has “no more to say on the matter”.

microsofty - April 22, 2007 07:15 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Mad Maggot @ Apr 22 2007, 05:53 PM)
[...] but when Helen, upon breaking up with Nikki, catches her kissing Caroline in the library, she ships her out and tells Nikki she’s “waaay off” when Nikki accuses her of being jealous and says she has “no more to say on the matter”.

This probably belongs in another (future?) discussion, but I had to agree with Helen on that one - Nikki was way off. I don't doubt that Helen felt a tingle of jealousy, but in this instance she was more protective (so sweet!) of Nikki than jealous.

Mad Maggot - April 22, 2007 07:44 PM (GMT)
I don't know, Helen's facial expression in that particular scene makes me think it wasn't all that much about being protective, just my opinion of course. And even if she was protective, how come is she allowed to be protective of Nikki and Nikki should just shut up and concentrate on fighting her own battle?

microsofty - April 22, 2007 08:14 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Mad Maggot @ Apr 22 2007, 09:44 PM)
[...} how come is she allowed to be protective of Nikki and Nikki should just shut up and concentrate on fighting her own battle?

Hmmm, good point. I think it goes back to Helen's control, mind over matter (or in this case, heart). Up to this point she has been fighting so hard to keep the balance between what she feels for Nikki and acting (or rather not acting) on her feelings. And it seems as if it worked somehow, because Nikki looked quite comfortable in their respective "new" roles as people waiting to be together when the circumstances were better. Until the scene at the gate, Nikki wasn't as pushy anymore, more resigned to her fate. She had a pushy attempt in S3E1 "all you want is an easy life" and the next sort of pushy scene only follows in this episode "might have known I couldn't be of any help".

Helen doesn't want Nikki to be protective of her, because that brings her own feelings for Nikki to the forefront again. She can't afford to loose control, because then she will be back to square one in trying to keep her feelings at bay.

Oi, does this make any sense at all?

popstalin - April 22, 2007 08:55 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (abzug @ Apr 22 2007, 01:55 PM)
Wow great discussion here to wake up to!  I really like the points everyone has made.

QUOTE (microsofty)
the first thing she wants to do is to switch off her emotions by reverting back to cold facts "that's your appeal out the window... I've been working my butt off if you haven't noticed..."

I agreed with the general ideas of your post, microsofty, but not this one. I've always interpreted Helen's "your appeal out the window" line as borderline hysterical. A total overreaction (as is proved later, given that Nikki's appeal went just fine), rather than a repression. Helen is just Freaking Out, and this (as you point out) is the way she can blame Nikki, shifting the focus to Nikki's behavior, rather than her own feelings and anger. But her feelings aren't repressed, they're more like displaced. No?

Hmmm.... I think I have to disagree about this on all points, i.e. Helen's reaction in Nikki's room after the Nikki/Fenner confrontation. I think some really good points were made but maybe slightly off the mark. :P

I think Helen was genuinely concerned that Fenner would try to throw a wrench in Nikki's appeal because of her actions in the office (which was a valid concern as we find out later in the series). To me it seemed Helen's reaction came from a place of "Oh my god, you've just ruined our chance to be together." I agree that Helen was indeed holding on by a wire at this point but I think she was still thinking in terms of N&H's future together. I also believe she wasn't thinking about her career at all—which is one of the few moments in the N&H storyline that she doesn't immediately consider her career first.

abzug - April 22, 2007 10:10 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (popstalin @ Apr 22 2007, 03:55 PM)
I think Helen was genuinely concerned that Fenner would try to throw a wrench in Nikki's appeal because of her actions in the office (which was a valid concern as we find out later in the series). To me it seemed Helen's reaction came from a place of "Oh my god, you've just ruined our chance to be together." I agree that Helen was indeed holding on by a wire at this point but I think she was still thinking in terms of N&H's future together. I also believe she wasn't thinking about her career at all—which is one of the few moments in the N&H storyline that she doesn't immediately consider her career first.

This may sound funny, but I do actually agree with your post. Back up thread a bit (on the first page maybe?) I said I thought Helen was scared of three things, one of which was Nikki's appeal failing, and she and Nikki therefore not getting to be together. :) The other two had to do with her fear of Fenner, against herself or against Nikki, so I'm also with you that none of her fear had anything to do with her career.

QUOTE (microsofty)
Helen doesn't want Nikki to be protective of her, because that brings her own feelings for Nikki to the forefront again. She can't afford to loose control, because then she will be back to square one in trying to keep her feelings at bay.

This totally makes sense, and I think is right on the money. Excellent excellent point. Like, Helen started to shift back into Nikki-help-me mode (the scene in the yard when she tells Nikki about the assault), and then realized she Could Not Go There. Too dangerous.

microsofty - April 23, 2007 08:51 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (popstalin @ Apr 22 2007, 10:55 PM)
I think Helen was genuinely concerned that Fenner would try to throw a wrench in Nikki's appeal because of her actions in the office (which was a valid concern as we find out later in the series). To me it seemed Helen's reaction came from a place of "Oh my god, you've just ruined our chance to be together." I agree that Helen was indeed holding on by a wire at this point but I think she was still thinking in terms of N&H's future together. I also believe she wasn't thinking about her career at all—which is one of the few moments in the N&H storyline that she doesn't immediately consider her career first.

Oops! I never meant to imply that Helen was thinking of her career here, but rather, like you said, about her and Nikki's future. But it goes back to my control comment earlier on in the thread. There is no denying that Helen is in a very difficult position at this point in time, being pulled in different directions, if you will. She's just getting it from all sides as in S1E9, but this time she might even feel that Nikki has joined the ranks of those who make life difficult for her, albeit on a very different level than the rest.

Just Another Mad Bad Fan - April 23, 2007 06:45 PM (GMT)
In Helen's defence, I think that her outrage at Nikki's threatening Fenner has far more to do with her concern that it will jeopardise Nikki's appeal than anything else. It is for that reason that I think that she is appalled at the thought that Nikki was in the Officers' Room threatening Fenner with exactly the sort of violence that got her in there in the first place. And while I disagree with Microsofty that Nikki's action appears to demonstrate a lack of correction on her part - on the contrary, I think that Nikki demonstrates a complete awareness of what she had done in the past, and how her unthinking protective lashing out on that occasion is what has got her into the situation that she is in. In this instance she is in complete control - it's a masterful performance on her behalf, she goes into the office not knowing that there is going to be a bottle near at hand, but she manipulates the situation to her own advantage. She knows exactly which buttons are going to set Fenner off and she presses every one of them. She relies on his paranoia after his own little misadventure with a bottle, to terrorise him - she has learnt from her previous mistake not to touch him, and she is smart enough to know that she doesn't have to, she lets his own mind do all the work for her. She is like a big cat playing with a terrified but stupid and easily manipulated mouse. She uses all the tricks in her arsenal to punish him for what he has done - her tone is controlled and menacing, she never raises her voice, she doesn't draw any attention to what is going on in the office, and then she reminds him of what Dockley did, and gives him a little reminder that she's capable of doing exactly the same thing, she hovers around the bottle - and she has him on the ropes - all without having laid a finger on him.

She has learned from her previous experience, she does realise that violence isn't the answer, but she is not above using her reputation for violence to achieve her goal of punishing Fenner for what he did to Helen. And she can't understand why Helen doesn't see the distinction - "I didn't touch him!" is what it's about for her - she's moved beyond the Nikki that stuck a bottle in a policeman's neck, that Nikki would have responded on auto-pilot, consequences be damned. This Nikki has thought the whole thing through and she is able to achieve her goal, with no negative consequences to herself - other than Helen's outrage of course!

Helen on the other hand is furious, not neccessarily at what she has done, but at the appearance of what she has done. To anybody else, if Fenner was to report the incident, it would appear that Nikki hadn't been rehabilitated in any way, because to all intents and purposes here she was, threatening to do exactly the same thing to Fenner that she had done to the policeman. If he was to mention it in court, it wouldn't help her to say, I was only trying to frighten him or wind him up, because unlike Helen she is the one "serving life for sticking a bottle in a policeman's neck." That is what terrifies Helen - that Nikki might have blown her chance of any court seeing beyond that. For that she needs Nikki to "keep (her) head down and (her) nose clean" and Nikki has just stuck her head above the parapet!

badgirlnuts - April 23, 2007 07:46 PM (GMT)
I don't wish to throw cold water on this discussion but would anyone agree if I said that Helen should've listened to Nikki's suggestion/advice and made an official assault complaint against Fenner and consequently got him sacked or suspended. Then Nikki would've no reason to confront him, and also he wouldn't have an upper hand on both of them. This keeping schtum doesn't help anybody.

BTW if this is already discussed in any of the above posts please overlook my post as I haven't read all of them.

orlando - April 23, 2007 08:14 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (microsofty @ Apr 22 2007, 08:14 PM)
Helen doesn't want Nikki to be protective of her, because that brings her own feelings for Nikki to the forefront again. She can't afford to loose control, because then she will be back to square one in trying to keep her feelings at bay.

I agree with this. By comparison it's very interesting to see Helen's reaction when in S3e14 she involves Thomas. He reads the report she made about the assault, but doesn't expect him to get involved: "It's my own personal crusade". Being a good guy he says that he is involved now that he knows and then goes on to say "sitting on the side line, not really my thing". The similarities between his approach and Nikki's are startling, but unlike her reaction to Nikki's help, Helen clearly feels it's safe to accept help from Thomas. Of course he's on the right side of the bars, but I think it's also important that she deems she won't relinquish (emotional) control by accepting his help rather than Nikki's.

JAMBGF I also agree about your assesment of the motives for Helen's actions. I do think she was genuinely worried (justified or not) about Nikki's appeal chances being worsened. Love your reading of Nikki's formidable intimidation skills. There's is definitely something very feline about her... :)

richard - April 23, 2007 08:36 PM (GMT)
Wow, this debate has moved on with enormous strides. JAMBF has done a suiperb job in explaining nikki's very controlled intimidation of Fenner and Abzug and Popstalin have done a great job in explaining Helen. There's one point to bring out here and that is that Helen has thrown her weight around quite a bit recently in putting the pressure on Stubberfield over her enquiry into Fenner's stabbing. She'd criticised the standard of discipline that night, putting Stubberfield in the frame for a report that had gone to area. She'd tried to talk to Karen about Fenner and because she didn't feel confident about opening up to Karen,she knew that she'd made things worse. She'd pushed through a programme to bring in those on the muppet wing onto G wing but the one thing she couldn't do was to resolve her own problems. Her perhaps incautious but understandable outburst to Fenner at her impotence testifies to the horried realisation of her lack of power. This adds weight to Abzug's 'displacement' theory.

I got the feeling that Helen was saying to Nikki that she would fight Nikki's major battle- her appeal- but that Nikki couldn't fight Helen's battle and suppressing the fact that she couldn't fight it either.
An earlier post said that, under pressure, Helen will revert to facts and there is a lot in this in the same way that at one time, Helen couldn't have a relationship with Nikki because of the fact of her being Nikki's 'jailer.' It does two things. On the one hand, it's true and on the other hand, it camouflages Helen's feelings behind those facts. If Helen cares so deeply about Nikki prejudicing her appeal, it means that Helen does care about her, it's just that she can express it in terms that she can deal with.

ekny - April 23, 2007 08:46 PM (GMT)
Very nice, clean set of links, Richard. :clap --e




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