Just thought I'd pull this out of the archives, because I'm right there with Sarah Waters, time to leave the US, and move to the UK!



Canadabadgirl PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:26 pm

Sarah Waters is a "Bad Girls" Fan
Hi all,

I bought a copy of "The Big Issue" today (for New Yorkers, it's an upscale equivalent of "Street News") and was surprised to find an interview with Sarah Waters. In it she speaks candidly about her characters, writing sex scenes, lesbian characters in literature and coming out - among other things. She also was disillusioned by the lack of engaging characters in "The L Word". She said "I actually prefer "Bad Girls" - it's ludicrous melodrama but the lesbian characters are quite realistic."

Ok, I might have overstated it by calling her a "fan", but she likes the BG lesbians.

She talks quite a bit abouther new book "The Night Watch", which I bought over the weekend and would like to discuss with anyone who's interested. Not sure if anyone will be, but if so, we can start a thread in a more appropriate forum, or just chat here and throw in a reference to BG every now and then to keep things on topic. Wink

A.

My addiction is definitely with BG! I've only watched a few episodes of TLW but they've never managed to grab my attention and/or imagination. For me TLW slides more towards the stereotypical typecast of lesbians, whereas BG have more full characters that continues to develop.

In general I prefer UK stories to US ones. The people and the storylines in UK stories are more real, I can identify with the characters more. They look and act like us ordinary folk, I can keep up with them. US stories tend to have beautiful people doing extraordinary things, which has no relation to my life - I therefore battle to engage with the story.

I know what you mean, probably why I don't watch many TV series here, movies are my usual media of choice.

Unfortunately, living here in the US I didn't even know Bad Girls existed until this year. I was so starved for lesbian content I jumped on The L Word bandwagon immediately. I'll still watch The L Word for that reason, but there is no comparison, Bad Girls is the real deal!

You can say that again!

The L Word doesn't even compare to Bad Girls. I've watched TLW since day one, but only recently been introduced to BG, and BG definitely wins. The writing staff on TLW just doesn't know what they are doing. They drop characters at random, they don't pursue the storylines they've created, and they effing kill my favourite characters. TLW is nice, if you want to watch something without much substance, which sometimes is okay. But BG sucks you in, big time.

I agree, the first 3 seasons of Bad Girls absolutely blows The L Word away. The L Word lost its luster at the end of season 2, and never recaptured the magic it once had.

I'd say, I wasn't this bloody obsessed with TLW, when I got into it, as I am with BG. I watched the L Word, but I don't think I was so out of control. Sure, I would watch it, as soon as I could, but I didn't watch it as obsessively, or rewatch it as much. Of course, at the time, I wasn't even aware of certain internet things, but even now, I can't even really say I've read 1 set of recaps, let alone, read 2, like I am for BG. Personally, I like them both and for different reasons, because they are quite different shows, melodrama aside.

Well, when I started watching TLW, I had been teased for over a year with shotime trailers & didn't even know Bad Girls existed. It was pretty much the only game in town and I gobbled it up. There are things about the show and about the community of fans that have made it special and a part of certain memories. Mostly, the L word mostly squanders its potential and keeps disappointing me in various ways, but it also is addicting. Even when its terrible, it still is fun to talk about.

The L word is more flash, while Bad Girls is more substance. However, I think tLw and BG have quite different goals and perspectives in some respect. These shows make different points, more often than they make the same ones.

It depends on my mood, which I'd rather see. It probably helps that I'm a Californian. the L word sadly isn't all fiction, but it is definitely not the majority. I mean, I can't say they never have some lofty goals or concepts, but they bloody mishandle that show and its character's left and right. Sure, it's addicting the way I guess that that kind of melodrama is. I enjoy the conversations going on about the show and sort of the L word community. The problem is, the L word, while it wants to tell certain stories, decides it has to sell out to sex. I dunno. In Bad Girls, I feel like there is a great respect for the characters and the subject. With the L Word, I feel like Ilene Chaiken has some serious personal issues and is trying to work them out with her show & while she's at it, she's frying her characters like a kid using sun beams through a magnifying glass to burn ants.

Ah well, I don't consider TLW to be a bit of a guilty pleasure for nothing.

I am really rambling. Anyways, let's put it this way. I may have an autographed copy of Season 1 of the L word, which was kinda an odd coincidence, since if J.B. had shown up, I would have given the autograph to someone, I had gone to see, hear & meet, but I didn't give a toss about collecting autographs. Although, Leisha Hailey is awesome & well Sarah Shahi has a great personality and a great body, so in the end I lucked out.

Bottom line, actions tell the tale. I'm not buying more seasons of the L word, until I have to show it to friends. However, I've already purchased a DVD player and 3 series of BG. It is clear, which one I'm more addicted to, innit? Plus, I don't think I've ever picked up any manerisms from tLw, but I definitely have been picking up manerisms and accents from BG.

Although, I have some serious doubts about S4-s8 BG. I'm not saying Nikki & Helen are the only characters on the show worth watching, but I'm not saying I won't buy the rest of the L word, first.

Hi Washuai,

LOL! It's so funny that you brought up BG mannerisms and accents because I'm on location right now, and the people on the set think I'm absolutely mad! I keep cussing British style; I just can't help it! I say shite, sod off, up your bum--call people wankers! LOL! They have no clue what the hell I'm talking about! It's so funny. I've always been a bit of a cheeky monkey, but now I'm a British cussing machine. So, I must say, Bad Girls has definitely been good for me. :D

Cheers,
Route66

I have a tie....Law and Order: SVU first (OF COURSE!) then Bad Girls. (OK so I added one as I am devoted to both!!) :D

I like L Word but not as addicted. :rolleyes:

You know, I think one key difference between the two shows is that Bad Girls has the drama built in (because it's set in a prison), whereas TLW has to manufacture most of its drama. In BG, you have natural conflicts all over the place: between inmates and screws, inmates and inmates, inmates and their families, and then the underlying issue-based conflicts of whether they should be there, whether they'll be released, etc. Violence, drugs, and sex are all around them -- the drama is right there. A lot of the emotions we feel through the show (as through the Zandra storyline) are firmly grounded in the actual drama of prison life.

On TLW, you've got mostly well-off women whose main conflicts tend to be in their relationships. There's not a lot of surrounding drama for them to work off of, so it has to be manufactured and often in ways that make me roll my eyes. Outside of the relationship storylines, I think there's a lot of nonsense that goes on because these women aren't surrounded by the natural drama you have in BG. Someone loses her job, someone gets deathly ill, someone loses all her money, someone becomes successful ... the non-relationship drama tends to feel less true -- still possible, anything's possible -- just not as natural as in some parts of BG.

My dictionary says melodrama is "a sensational dramatic piece with exaggerated characters and exciting events intended to appeal to the emotions." I think both shows are guilty pleasures because of the melodrama in some of their characters and storylines. But for me BG is more grounded in real, earned drama which is one reason it's the more appealing show for me.

I loved the first 3 seasons of Bad girls for obvious reasons. But i also love The L word!!

Jennifer Beales is gorgeous <33

I have to admit that I am a fan of both shows, but I do lean more to BG.

I am an odd sort because when BG was played on BBC America a while ago I tried to watch it but couldn't get into it. Then I watched it on the Logo Channel and saw three eps of season one and still was not impressed. I don't know what it was. I decided to give it another chance and saw the ep with Jessi and Denny thats when it clicked. That was when I saw real emotion. It was this emotion that hooked me in. I watched all three seasons on You Tube and never looked back. I have talked to a few of my British friends and they said that the series for them died after three but I have continued on.

The L Word has major issues for me because everything feels forced. There is no real emotion. Everybody is so sterio typical and nobody feels real. It feels like they are trying to shove every lesbian relationship into this 50 minute show that is just not happening.

BG on the other hand shows life love and not sex. Love is not about sex and how much nudity you can show. BG lets you enjoy everything arround while watching a beautiful flower grow in the middle of dark walls and chaios. Its just hands down better.

I don't know if I could explain it any other way.

XenaClark, I think you explained it beautifully. In contrast tLw tends to take beautiful flowers and wilt them amongst relative sunny surroundings.

I sort of heard of Bad Girls, before I really gave it a chance. "Women in Prison" biased me & I hadn't heard anything to encourage me that it didn't mean anything more. Yes, I knew there were "lesbian storylines", but I didn't know it was going to be so much deeper than the kind of regular trite women in prison stuff that really annoys me.

Which it was nice, knowing so little & since I'm kinda thick sometimes, in the beginning, I hadn't actually expected things to really happen between Nikki & Helen. I had the fun of discovering I wasn't imaginging things, it wasn't subtext. Yes, definitely there is more to the show.

Just moved this across to a slightly more suited forum. :D

Alright...well, being that I'm from the Us, I was exposed to TLW first. I must say that TLW did help me through a lot, and for that it will always have a special place in my heart. Plus Leisha Hailey...I mean, come on!

BG is great...and even though I predicted the Nikki/Helen pairing half way through the first episode, I kept coming back to actually see it happen. I'm a sucker for romance, especially if it involves two beautiful women.

So I may enjoy both shows, but I cannot compare one to the other. They are too different...the styles, the content, the types of characters, etc. TLW is like an idealized lesbian world that just happens to have soap opera qualities. It is not real or even close to it, but some of the issues and emotions faced are. There are at least two characters that I can relate to, well now only one...:( BG, while it too is not real, has more validity in the content. Granted prison life is not the way it is portrayed, but it rarely is like the media presents it. BG's love story with Nikki and Helen felt real...meaning that the actresses did a good job, especially since they're (unfortunately) straight. You could feel the tension, passion, and love. You can sometimes get that with TLW, with some of the characters...think Dylena. And the conflict was realistic...damn those fickle straight women! So, I guess after saying I couldn't compare them I have, but I still cannot say that one is better than the other. I watch them for different reasons. When I want to escape the reality of my single existence, I watch the fantasy of TLW. When I want proof that love can overcome obstacles, I watch BG.

I too am from the other side of the pond and have been watching TLW from the begining and I must say that for me it is way too much. I know a lot of people who have dropped it because it is too unrealistic.

I think for one thing I can not see myself in any of the charachters at all. I mean they are beautiful but not really realistic. I watch it every Sunday night and my partner is more disappointed if at the begining there is not a warning for nudity. I mean its almost as if the people are not watching it for the story.

I think the reason I like BG better is because I didn't start out hooked and then came to like it. I started out blech about it and grew to love it. I fell in love with Helen and Nikki as they were falling in love with each other. I came to hate and then feel sorry for Shell with all the other inmates. It was as if I was actually there through their hardships and cheered when someone was freed. I wanted to see them everyday and see what they were going through. For me this may sound odd but during the first ep I felt as if I was being punished and then as I continued to watch it I became friends with the inmates and cared about what happened. With TLW when they killed of Dana they killed of the innocence and thus really lost me. If any ohter charachter left I would not mourn them. But in BG I cried when people left or were killed.

I think the writing for TLW is not up to the quality of Bad Girls, not on a consistent basis.

I think we would like the actors from TLW better if their storylines and dialogue were better.

If you read the L Word pilot, it's actually pretty good. Ilene had a great concept; she just let the ball slip as time went on. She doesn't know how to tell a story: Beginning, middle, end means nothing to her. The Bad Girls' writers, on the other hand, do. I'll always love Alice and Dana though, and of course I'm partial to West Hollywood. :)

I think the show would have done better IC had set her ego aside and had higher aims... if she had any of Helen's instincts, in this case about writers... As it stands, with the constant shift in writers, the show is only held together by the actors/characters, that's too much of the burden of success laid on them if you ask me. Also, I feel like the problems set forth at the beginning of last series were the same ones resolved by the end, and that is just rediculous, too soap operaesque... just waiting for the inevitable and the predictable. At least in Bad Girls, twenty unexpected shifts and story lines happen over the course of each series if not each episode.