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Nikki And Helen > Debates > S3E9 Discussion



Title: S3E9 Discussion
Description: Talk talk talk


abzug - May 1, 2007 02:47 AM (GMT)
Since I never did manage to rewatch last week's episode, I figured I'd get things kicked off for this week. In my eagerness, I forgot that this episode is not only Nikki-less (like last week's) but also Helen-less. <sigh> Now I'm remembering why I watched S3 in three huge chunks. It's a bit bleak to watch the episodes one at a time. I can imagine it was brutal to watch as it was being broadcast.

Argh, I took all these notes and now I'm finding it really hard to get started. Taking some effort. Must. Write. Words.

So, the opening of the episode kind of sets up the themes pretty neatly. It's nighttime (our first nighttime prisoner arrival? perhaps...) and the press is crowding the prison entrance. So we've got this push and pull between secrets (the sneakniness of the nighttime arrival) and exposure (the press). Then we meet Mark for the first time, and at the intake, Gina tries to get it on with him. She thinks it's secret, no one will see them, but he's nervous they'll be observed and caught. So it's all sketching out this motif of being seen, of what conclusions people will draw about others from what they see, about the impressions we give off.

The whole Charlotte Mydleton character is wrapped up in appearances. Her father gets her sent to jail because he wants to make an example of her, to not appear as if he's playing favorites. All the guards and prisoners draw conclusions about her, ones that she protests from the start when she tells Gina "You don't know anything about me." The only way people do know about her is via the press, who aren't above making things up, as Charlotte points out later in the episode.

Of course, the reason Charlotte is judged on her surface is because she doesn't use her voice. She tries when she first arrives, threatening to report Gina's treatment of her. But to who? And with what? Gina takes her phone away as soon as she's aware Charlotte has it. Charlotte doesn't speak to her fellow inmates (in fact, Buki and Shaz mock her for this fairly quickly), thinking there's no point, given the powerlessness of her situation. But she's offbase: speaking isn't just about standing up for yourself, asserting power. It's also about relationship-building, about knowing others and being known. Her silence enforces her isolation, demonstrating her rejection of the community around her.

The battle between Yvonne and Charlotte centers around language and speech. Yvonne is initially impressed by Charlotte's insults toward Gina. But Charlotte doesn't care about impressing Yvonne, or interacting with her at all. Yvonne wants to make sure Charlotte is on side, and so informs her "A way with words isn't enough in here." Charlotte thinks of her fellow inmates as sub-human, the the wing as a jungle. Later, after she's arranged the theft of Charlotte's clothes, Yvonne mocks Charlotte's anger, and her earlier dismissal of her, "You're talking to an animal, remember?" But Charlotte continues using words as her weapon against Yvonne, grassing her up to Karen (in fact, Yvonne is grassed up TWICE in this episode, once by Charlotte and once by Buki--words have been a very effective weapon against her). When Yvonne confronts Charlotte about being "a narc" Charlotte asserts her power and status by insulting Yvonne's speech: "You mind saying that in English?" Charlotte's status and power come from how she speaks, not just what she says.

But Charlotte's words are giving of a false impression, a front. Yvonne at first doesn't realize this, and threatens Charlotte quite violently. Charlotte becomes suicidal, and Yvonne realizes what is happening when she finds out about Buki's blackmailing scheme. After she rescues Charlotte, Yvonne apologizes with the confession "I thought you was as hard as you made out." At this point, Charlotte finally uses words to open up, and share her familial pain, and Yvonne mothers her.

Charlotte's not the only one with a front in this episode, some of which are authentic, but many of which are not, and the difference is hard for outsiders to discern. Di manipulates both Crystal and Josh into thinking she's a loyal friend, and seducing them into opening up to her. After Crystal's positive drug test, Di suggests to Josh that Crystal's religion is a front, an act. Buki stages the photo of Charlotte for the reporter. And then the postcard from Denny, which everyone assumes is also a cover for the fact that Denny and Shell are still in London, in King's Cross. But it's not: the surface image of the photo of the marina in Spain transforms into the three dimensional real world of that marina, and Denny and Shell are in it. The drug test is the most offensive of the fronts, because they are so easily scammed and corrupted. Buki points out as much when she describes how she's going to beat the test. But Josh doesn't believe the test can be wrong, and instead distrusts everything he ever knew about Crystal.

Josh doesn't understand how much he is being manipulated and exploited. He's just one of many in this episode who suffer when words are used for this purpose, rather than for building community and connecting. Di fishes for info from Crystal about her relationship with Josh, as Crystal is mopping the floor. The whole scene is incredibly creepy, with scary music playing in case we weren't sure that Di was being sinister. And then just a few minutes later, the report fishes for info from Gina and Mark about Charlotte Mydleton, managing to find out the wing she's on, and the name of her cell mate. This reporter is much more competent in her fishing expedition than Di, but both of them inflict significant damage on their targets. Later, these two confessors are paired again, when the reporter visits Buki and bribes her for information and photos, while Di sits with Crystal in her cell and convinces Crystal to keep her confidences about Josh a secret from him. These two both elicit information for personal selfish gain, and destroy others' lives with it.

Interestingly, Charlotte and Crystal ultimately must fight back with completely different techniques. Charlotte writes an expose to the paper (which she has no problem getting published, with the powerful Yvonne as an ally for getting the article out to the papers) while Crystal can't get her own boyfriend to believe in her and trust her, and so (next week) must engage in the most disempowered form of resistance, the hunger strike.

microsofty - May 1, 2007 11:32 AM (GMT)
abzug, how are we suppose to add anything meaningful to this debate after your post? :)

Maybe this, although I don't know how meaningful it would be. Charlotte and Yvonne had a very strange dynamic between the two of them. It is not Yvonne's style to stoop so low as to steal someone's clothes, or even to get someone else to do her dirty work for her by means of manipulation - planting little seeds into the heads of two of the most gullible inmates - Shaz and Buki. Yvonne didn’t strike me as a character that poked her nose into someone else's business, especially if that person wanted to be left alone. For one she did not "harass" Tessa Spall who also isolated herself by having her meals in her cell, walking alone in the yard, etc. Conclusion: something in Charlotte pressed a button in Yvonne, but which button and why?

popstalin - May 1, 2007 02:14 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (microsofty @ May 1 2007, 11:32 AM)
Conclusion: something in Charlotte pressed a button in Yvonne, but which button and why?

The mom button would be my guess. Yvonne seems especially attracted to young women about Lauren's age—Denny and Charlotte—and I think she uses them as a substitution for her strong desire to take care of her daughter. She can do this indirectly being in prison (Babes Behind Bars) but certain inmates seem to be physical proxies.

I think she is also drawn to and can sense young women who have great inner strength, such as herself, but are emotionally stunted. In this sense, the Yvonne character helps other characters grow emotionally because she reinforces the inner-strength but nutures and helps repair the emotional turmoil these women have. It happens much quicker with Charlotte but she also eventually "repairs" Denny by the time she gets sent to an open prison.

abzug - May 1, 2007 03:24 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (microsofty)
abzug, how are we suppose to add anything meaningful to this debate after your post? 

:rofl A lot, I can tell you! Already you picked up on something which had been nagging at me quite a bit, because it felt so out of character for Yvonne.

I like this idea of the "mom button" in Yvonne. It makes sense that Charlotte's total rejection of her interest and protection would push a button in Yvonne. I mean, that whole scene where Charlotte tells off Gina, and Yvonne praises her, I think Yvonne expects this to be a bonding opportunity, and is surprised and pissed off when instead she winds up being victim of Charlotte's venemous mouth, just as Gina was. So her nurturing protection is rejected (huge insult not only as a mother but as a (God)mother, in the Mob sense, if you know what I mean).

I had thought there was a class issue involved, but I don't like this theory as much, because Yvonne never struck me as one who was insecure from a class perspective, a la Bodybag, and so why would she be resentful of someone upper class? She has all the power and money she wants, and I doubt she places high value on being accepted by the posh set.

QUOTE (abzug)
Charlotte's not the only one with a front in this episode, some of which are authentic, but many of which are not, and the difference is hard for outsiders to discern.

Sorry to quote myself, but I wanted to go into this idea of "fronts" a little bit more, because I think this episode is very preoccupied with how "fronts" are created: through words (Charlotte's mouth), through images (Denny's postcard), through the combination of words and images (the media), and through the manifests of the bureaucracy (ie the drug tests, Di's role as a position of trustworthy authority). The authority of the media and the bureaucracy is questioned in this episode, not only because we know Di is a total nutter, and therefore can see right through her. But also because Charlotte exposes the "front" created by the media: the staged photograph, the possibly-false quote by Charlotte's father rejecting Charlotte. The real danger is the mixture of truth within the lies, so when looking at the image created from the outside, it's impossible to know what to believe. Should Charlotte believe the quote from her father? He turned her in, he didn't come to visit her in prison, but on the other hand, the media has a history of making up salacious provocative quotes. Similarly, should Josh believe the results of the drug test? Drug tests are normally reliable, and why would anyone purposefully taint the results? But of course, drug tests can be tampered with, just as photos can be staged, and quotes invented. This leads to quite a volatile mixture of truth and lies, which it seems is almost more damaging than just pure lies.

QUOTE (abzug)
Charlotte writes an expose to the paper (which she has no problem getting published, with the powerful Yvonne as an ally for getting the article out to the papers)

See, this is what I get for posting right after I watch an episode--I never think things through sufficiently. So, one other thing about this. I never should have made it parenthetical, because it's like one of the most important points of the episode, in terms of the power of Speech. Yes, Charlotte can get her report published in the papers because of who she is, part of the ruling elite. But she can't get her words to the paper without the alternative ruling power of someone like Yvonne, who wields her power from outside the system, rather than within it. So again, it's questioning the established beliefs, not just seeing what's presented as Truth as being true, but also Power as being power. Like, how much does the so-called ruling elite need the support of people like Yvonne to make them effective? Probably a lot more than we think....

Here's another question: why the fuck was it not a big deal for Karen to have an attempted suicide on her wing, when back in S1, when Nikki saved Monica, it was like she also saved Helen's job? Perhaps some of the grounding in reality has been sacrificed, when an attempted suicide is taken in stride, rather than being a matter of course....

microsofty - May 1, 2007 03:40 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (abzug @ May 1 2007, 05:24 PM)
Here's another question: why the fuck was it not a big deal for Karen to have an attempted suicide on her wing, when back in S1, when Nikki saved Monica, it was like she also saved Helen's job? Perhaps some of the grounding in reality has been sacrificed, when an attempted suicide is taken in stride, rather than being a matter of course....

My guess would be that because Karen did not have a series of "fuck-ups" prior to Charlotte's attempted suicide. And when I say "fuck-ups", I don't mean it from our perspective, but from the perspective of the powers-that-be. We saw all Helen's efforts and good intentions that somehow always went arse-up. And she already had the Rachel suicide tick to her name, which didn't help matters. Rightly or wrongly, Helen was already branded as negligent, unfortunately.

invisicoll - May 1, 2007 05:39 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (microsofty @ May 1 2007, 11:40 AM)
My guess would be that because Karen did not have a series of "fuck-ups" prior to Charlotte's attempted suicide. And when I say "fuck-ups", I don't mean it from our perspective, but from the perspective of the powers-that-be. We saw all Helen's efforts and good intentions that somehow always went arse-up. And she already had the Rachel suicide tick to her name, which didn't help matters. Rightly or wrongly, Helen was already branded as negligent, unfortunately.

Well, it is all about Stubberfield's perspective because Karen has had her fair share of fuck-ups. Having the red bands at Silvia's party and then Shell stabbing Fenner should have resulted in Karen getting a stern talking-to alone. Stubberfield practically micromanaged Helen, but Karen has free reign to do as she chooses.

I haven't seen this episode in a while. Has Stubberfield been fired yet?

ekny - May 1, 2007 05:54 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (abzug @ May 1 2007, 11:24 AM)
Charlotte can get her report published in the papers because of who she is, part of the ruling elite. But she can't get her words to the paper without the alternative ruling power of someone like Yvonne, who wields her power from outside the system, rather than within it. So again, it's questioning the established beliefs, not just seeing what's presented as Truth as being true, but also Power as being power. Like, how much does the so-called ruling elite need the support of people like Yvonne to make them effective? Probably a lot more than we think....

That's a good general question & I agree with your observations within this episode, but... the first thing that came to mind was Crystal, who is working-class & had NO trouble accessing the Guardian. Without help.

abzug - May 1, 2007 06:06 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (ekny @ May 1 2007, 12:54 PM)
but... the first thing that came to mind was Crystal, who is working-class & had NO trouble accessing the Guardian. Without help.

I thought of that too. But, she had Shell's scheming to help her, remember? So it wasn't purely in isolation, and in fact Crystal never would have written it in the first place, let alone succeeded in getting it in the paper, without Shell behind the whole thing. In addition, there's a difference between a letter-to-the-editor, and the kind of feature coverage Charlotte received. Charlotte KNEW if she got her "article" into the hands of the press, they would run it. Crystal/Shell just swung for the bleachers and hoped they'd hit a home run, which they did. I know I'm making pretty subtle distinctions here, but I think they're significant.

QUOTE (invisicoll)
I haven't seen this episode in a while. Has Stubberfield been fired yet?

Well, I didn't watch last week's, but if I recall correctly, Stubby got fired in last week's episode, and Helen gets the Acting Governing Gov position in next week's episode, so this week is a limbo week, with no one in charge.

richard - May 1, 2007 06:27 PM (GMT)
There's a couple of themes I wanted to pull out which is all that is left over after the really excellent posts.
As a rule, a 'posh' prisoner will get a rough ride unless there is anything else about them to counter that. It was starting out that way with Monica except that the turning point came with her hitting Denny to prize her off Rachel and, like Babs, that they 'mucked' in. Nikki in reality has a fair amount of 'posh' about her with her boarding school education except that her cover was the sentence she had for killing a cop , that she will roughen her accent when up against the likes of Dockley and that she is physically tough. Charlotte has none of these defences and has operated in an environment where her sharp tongue got her way.
Aside the really excellent posts by Abzug about 'fronts' and her interaction of Charlotte and Yvonne, Karen's display of controlled firmness also put her in her place after the demands to 'arrest' Yvonne. The points are well made by the way Karen has had a pretty free hand from Stubberfield in contrast with Helen and the absence of Karen having the dread phone call to go to Stubberfield to be blamed.
Another theme Shed address is the political one and they unobtrusively draw a comparison with the way that Buki will 'sell' what Charlotte wants, her clothes back by a process of blackmail in return for the equally amoral press reporter paying Buki to skeak a faked up photo of Charlotte taking drugs and tape recording a supposedly friendly conversation with Gina and Mark in a pub and pretending to be a fellow PO.

ekny - May 1, 2007 07:14 PM (GMT)
Abzug: I think your distinctions, although subtle, are valid for the framework you're using. :) Agreed. --e

abzug - May 1, 2007 07:25 PM (GMT)
Phew! ;)

ekny - May 1, 2007 07:45 PM (GMT)
No--sorry, didn't mean it like that: I mean they're legit questions both ways: do these distinctions extend beyond the episode, & if so, in what ways, & if not, why not? So you're right to point out that Crystal needed Shell's urging to spur her on, although I do believe Crystal would've been entirely capable of figuring out how to mail to the papers herself--had she thought of it. She didn't need Shell's help with the mechanics, but rather the idea that she was entitled; just as able as any other person to use this resource. But of course otoh, the kind of coverage they get in the Guardian is different than the sort of front-page tabloid stuff Charlotte is getting--for better and worse, then. Charlotte gets a lot of splashy attention, but it's not really 'about' her--or her problems or situation--at all, in the end.

abzug - May 1, 2007 07:50 PM (GMT)
Omigod, no, I was just kidding! Sorry, I'm the one who didn't mean it like that! But I agree with everything in your post, most definitely. And it's a good issue to unpack in more detail, as is everything related to the press on BG. I mean, as Richard points out, the total sneakiness of the reporter (impersonating the prison officer, bribing Buki) is a total demonstration of the complete amorality of the press. Similar to the depiction of the television crew--anything for the story, as long as the story is as salacious as possible. It's definitely a theme in S3....

ekny - May 1, 2007 07:59 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (abzug @ May 1 2007, 03:50 PM)
It's definitely a theme in S3....

It is, & been one throughout in one way or another--the larger theme of the media in relation to the prison, that is. After all, one of Stubberfield's chief concerns in many of the conversations he has with his underlings (as he'd see them)--from Helen to Karen through even Fenner--is The Press: what they'll think, how this will play, and of course first & foremost, how this will effect Him. That's been there since S1 ep1.

microsofty - May 1, 2007 08:10 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (invisicoll @ May 1 2007, 07:39 PM)
Well, it is all about Stubberfield's perspective because Karen has had her fair share of fuck-ups.  Having the red bands at Silvia's party and then Shell stabbing Fenner should have resulted in Karen getting a stern talking-to alone.  Stubberfield practically micromanaged Helen, but Karen has free reign to do as she chooses. 

Stubberfield has regarded Karen as one of the "boys" right from the start. He's the one that got her the job at Larkhall, remember? And when Karen said she would expect the support of those above her, he replied "Of course, 100%, you know that." As far as Stubberfield goes, Karen is in the same league as Fenner, they just can't put a foot wrong. But yes, my fuck-up comment was defintitely from Stubberfield et al's perspective.

If memory serves me right, Stubberfield was the one who authorised the red bands at Sylvia's doo, not Karen. He said as much when Karen called him to the wing when Fenner was still locked in the cell with Shell - "... which I authorised... just let me just hear those two words..."

richard - May 1, 2007 08:14 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (ekny @ May 1 2007, 07:59 PM)
It is, & been one throughout in one way or another--the larger theme of the media in relation to the prison, that is. After all, one of Stubberfield's chief concerns in many of the conversations he has with his underlings (as he'd see them)--from Helen to Karen through even Fenner--is The Press: what they'll think, how this will play, and of course first & foremost, how this will effect Him. That's been there since S1 ep1.(quote from Ekny)

I hadn't thought to loop this theme of the media back to Stubberfield, ekny but it is certainly a very valuable connection and as Stubberfield lived by the press angle, he died by it.

I've just caught up with Abzug's treatment of Crystal and Charlotte of their approach to the press and it a real insight as Crystal isn't far removed from the ordinary member of the public and the most that they can achieve of the letters section of the Guardian if they're lucky. Charlotte is already tabloid news and can hit the front page with a tiny effort.

Referring back to invisicoll's post, Stubberfield was fired after Area investigated 'the great escape.'

microsofty - May 1, 2007 08:25 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (richard @ May 1 2007, 10:14 PM)
[...] as Stubberfield lived by the press angle, he died by it.

Ah! Now Stubberfield's comment when he left Larkhall makes perfectly sense: "This is how a man looks when he's been made to fall on his own sword".


invisicoll - May 1, 2007 09:22 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (microsofty @ May 1 2007, 04:10 PM)
If memory serves me right, Stubberfield was the one who authorised the red bands at Sylvia's doo, not Karen. He said as much when Karen called him to the wing when Fenner was still locked in the cell with Shell - "... which I authorised... just let me just hear those two words..."

Hmm, I remembered him talking about authorizing the party in the PO's club, not approving the red bands. It's been a while since I've seen it.

Cassandra - May 2, 2007 06:38 AM (GMT)
Lots of great points in this thread. Not sure if I can add anything remotely useful .....

QUOTE (richard @ May 1 2007, 09:14 PM)
QUOTE (ekny @ May 1 2007, 07:59 PM)
It is, & been one throughout in one way or another--the larger theme of the media in relation to the prison, that is. After all, one of Stubberfield's chief concerns in many of the conversations he has with his underlings (as he'd see them)--from Helen to Karen through even Fenner--is The Press: what they'll think, how this will play, and of course first & foremost, how this will effect Him. That's been there since S1 ep1.(quote from Ekny)

I hadn't thought to loop this theme of the media back to Stubberfield, ekny but it is certainly a very valuable connection and as Stubberfield lived by the press angle, he died by it.
I agree. What struck me with previous episodes was that Stubberfield fully embraced the media which (indirectly through the escape) lead to his downfall. In this episode, Charlotte's father tried to avoid the media by getting Charlotte arrested but ultimately had to pay the price and resign. The media triumphs regardless.

Also I wondered if the "Auntie Nellie" postcard was a reference to Nellie Bly. Didn't she blow the whistle on prison conditions by going undercover? And she also did one of those 80-days-round-the-World Verne-type trips.

abzug - October 26, 2007 01:54 PM (GMT)
bump for Logo




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