Hey guys. Some of you may have noticed that I didn't participate in the last episode discussion. Really sorry. And I didn't even watch this episode on Monday night, but thought I'd start it anyway.

I mentioned when sidcussing one of the S2 episodes, that I loved how Crystal and Josh's relationship reflected the normality of any life in prison. Of course, this episode emphasises that with their wedding ceremony. Everyone gets involved; the same people who were involved in setting up there first date. (Except of course, Zandra is absent and Babs is there).

I've also mentioned elsewhere that the scene after Nikki sees the appeal has been granted, I felt sure her and Helen were going to kiss. Until Thomas walked in. It was a very touching moment for the couple, but imagine all the consequences of that - they would probably have had to stay on for another series for some reason or another! (Not that that would have been a terribly bad thing, right?) :lol:

Anyway, as you can probably tell, I'm not feeling up to this this week either. But thought I should start it and at least get a little bit involved. So I'll leave others to expand.

Lisa x

Well for once I did round to watching it Lisa, so I'll add a little bit more

This episodes theme seemed to be about "Keeping Secrets" and I think that term was actually mentioned in the episode (Helen tellling Nikki about her promotion, Fenner talking to Helen about the attack, Josh finding out about Di switching the drugs test, Fenner finding out about Di's mum, Helen bursting to say something when she hears about Nikki's appeal and of course the wedding itself). The only exception was Charlotte who insisted on a drugs retest thereby revealing her secret.

I agree, Lisa. Think Helen & Nikki would have definitely kissed if Thomas hadn't interrupted. And the story would have been somewhat different ....

All the POs (except Helen I think) made apologises to people ... but I'm not too sure what to make of that? (Karen & Josh genuinely to Crystal, Di (don't ever believe a word she says) to Fenner, Josh & Helen, Fenner (is he ever genuine?) to Helen and even Thomas when he interrupts Helen & Nikki)

Crystal went on hunger strike but eventually forgave Josh & they got married. Sure there must be a lot more to say about the wedding but can't think what for now.

Di went on the rampage but later got a taste of her own medicine by being kept prisoner in the store cupboard during the wedding.

Can't remember if its supposed to be a linen cupboard that Crystal & Josh consumate the marriage. If it was then it must double as a Tardis ... it certainly seemed very spacious on the inside.

The Peckham Boot Gang arrive to a fanfare of fireworks .... indicating whats going to come in future episode perhaps?

Can't think of anything else for now. Where are you when we need you, abzug?

Hey Cassandra,

I like the points you've made about the keeping secrets thing. Good points raised :)

Forgot about this. Thanks for mentioning it. I think Crystal was very strong to protest her innocence like that. How long did she actually last for? Was it mentioned?

Hehe, I loved this. Classic comedy moment, thanks to the Julies. :lol:

Perhaps it is. Infact, if I remember rightly, doesn't one of them say "Must have heard we were coming" ? Shows they think a lot of themselves, and that they deserve respect and credibility.

I think they mentioned 5 days at one stage before she fainted so presumably it was a few days after that (after the drug test results) she started eating again.

Did they explain why on earth Josh agreed to meet with Di after her line dancing? I can't remember if the conversation was shown or not. It just seems a bit unlikely, that's all! He started to panic a bit after Gina wound him up about his date.

Fenner's face when he heard that Helen was the new No 1 was a picture. Definitely worried there! He buttered Karen up to prevent Helen causing any trouble.

Helen refused to be wound up by Stubberfield and almost gloated.

Oh and there was Thomas with his peanut butter and raspberry jam sandwiches!! Definitely a big kid.

Yeah Lisa, the two Julies scene was brilliant, especially the flabby line when Di asks why Crystal is at the gym (Oh yeah...that's right, she said she was feeling flabby.....)

Hehe. Sorry guys, my life is really busy right now, and tonight was the first spare minute I've had to rewatch and post about the episode. But y'all got things off to a great start, so no complaints here!

This is a great pickup! What interested me most about the keeping of secrets in this episode was how secrets (and their close relation, knowledge) are totally entwined with the power struggles in this episode. Fenner is so nervous when he hears that Helen has been made Number One, because she has knowledge which can get him fired. Di is nervous when Fenner finds out she's abusing and neglecting her mother, because now he has knowledge which can get her fired. Meanwhile, Charlotte, of course, uses her knowledge for good, not for abuse/control. But she had to FIGHT, really work hard, to have her secret become common knowledge--she quotes the rule book, she finds the info for an outside clinic, etc. It's almost easier to assert power by threatening to reveal information than it is to assert power by actually revealing information. That's awfully perverse, don't you think?

The idea of power kind of flows throughout this episode, in visual representations as well as the storylines. There are lots of overhead shots in this episode, and I thought in many cases they related to the idea that certain characters thought they had control/power, but in fact, they didn't, there was someone higher up, looking down on them, observing, reading, knowing. It started with Helen walking into Larkhall, and then the camera pulls back and up a bit on the entrance and holds that point of view for a moment. Later when the Julies, Yvonne and Crystal are planning the wedding on the wing, they are shot from above, and then the camera reverses and we see Di looking down on them. She knows what's up (pardon the pun).

The whole opening sequence contrasts two attempts by women to seize power. First, Helen. She's got that secret glee on her face, she's absolutely thrilled she's finally won the keys to the top of the shit heap. Second, Crystal. Right after Helen's entrance, we learn of Crystal's 5-day hunger strike. She's at the bottom of the shit heap, and this is the only option available to her to try to control her fate, and make herself heard. In fairly short order, Helen and Crystal are both victims of attempts to disempower the empowered. Stubberfield tells Helen she's just the "pretty face" Area is using before they "pick their man." Di tells Crystal "You'll be dead and buried before anyone takes any notice" of her hunger strike. These two moments are chilling, because in both cases, it seems that the underminers could be correct. We just can't be sure.

For both Helen and Crystal, there are others observing from the side, concerned about their potential trajectories toward self-destruction. For Helen, that person is Nikki, who (in her own pissy aggressive way) warns Helen that her newfound power isn't going to get her what she wants (assuming that what she wants is intimacy with Nikki). Helen thinks it will--she's going to have more power to get Nikki freed on appeal, AND she's going to get rid of Fenner. Nikki, however, is skeptical. Meanwhile, Charlotte can't stand to watch Crystal starve herself, and like Nikki, she takes action to try to save Crystal from herself. She's quite a bit more successful than Nikki, however.

I deliberately chose the word "won" when I mentioned Helen taking over as Governing Gov, because this idea of battles pervades the episode. Fenner comments early on when he sees Helen on the wing that she is surveying her "empire" and Stubberfield remarks that Helen has been handed a "poisoned chalice." I'm having a hell of a time finding the time period of the origin of that particular phrase, but it feels rather medieval to me, and definitely with the connotations of the political intrigue and assasination which go along with empire-building. Yvonne, the queen of picking and choosing battles, doesn't understand why Crystal is on her hunger strike, because she just doesn't see the point. But once Crystal's second drug test comes back, Yvonne stirs things up by revealing that Di knew Charlotte was going to test positive. Others can't pick and choose so much. Josh is essentially fighting for his life against Di, particularly in the scene at his apartment when she finally breaks down and admits what she's done. Cross cut with this battle is Fenner bolstering his alliance with Karen against Helen, planting the idea that Helen will trump up a sexual abuse charge against him. Karen thinks Helen is straight (hehe "straight") as an arrow, but the doubt is seeded.

The worst battle of all, though, is between Di and her mother. The abuse scene is absolutely horrific, because of the cruelty of absolute power. Strangely, I'm not sure whether it's Di or her mother who has the absolute power. Di, because she can hit her mother, knock her to the floor, leave her stranded all day in her wheelchair? Or Di's mother, because she can keep Di tied up at home as her caretaker?

I'm trying to come up with a connection between the power claims and battles I've outlined above, and the romances and weddings which also play a significant role in this episode. I've come up with something, but perhaps it's a bit of a stretch. If we think in medieval terms again, back to the poisoned chalice and the formation of empires, we can see marriage as historically playing a role in these efforts. Many empires and alliances were formed via romance and marriage. That's what Fenner's doing in his relationship with Karen. And that's what Helen is starting to do with Thomas. In a way, so are Josh and Crystal, because they've both been victim of a Di stealth attack, and must rebuild their alliance through this ceremony. Earlier Crystal had complained to Josh that she didn't want to have to prove herself to him every time he didn't believe her about something--there is a lot these two had to repair.

I found the whole wedding sequence fascinating, particularly the way it was mixed in with Nikki finding out about her appeal. The parallels between these two mini-storylines are actually quite striking once you start looking for them.
--Josh and Crystal are secretly scheming to get married. Helen and Nikki are secretly scheming to be together.
--Josh and Crystal (with a little help from their friends) find a way to have their wedding. Helen and Nikki (with a little help from Helen's friend) win an appeal for Nikki, and a chance to be together on the outside
--Di is doing everything she can to disrupt Josh and Crystal's wedding. Thomas inadvertently disrupts Helen and Nikki's moment of electric celebration.
So the appeal is sort of like an engagement for Helen and Nikki, but it's tenuous, as evidenced by the ease with which they are interrupted. If only they had the Julies to tie Thomas up and lock him in a closet! Yet another example of the importance of the community in supporting a relationship in order for it to succeed! Di, unlike Thomas, arrives too late, and though she finds the flowers left behind, she can do nothing about the wedding. More metaphorically, the wedding between Crystal and Josh establishes the idea that the most important thing is that they "feel married" not that they actually have a legal marriage. If that's not the pro-gay-est idea I've heard in a long time, I can't think of what might be. Even Babs (Mrs. Middle England) changes her mind and comes around to this idea, just like she came around about Nikki's sexuality.

Odds and Sods
There's a few things I wasn't quite able to make sense of:
1) At one point Di says that her "whole life's a stinking piss test." Earlier in the ep, she commented on her mother's stench of piss. And then at the very end, when Fenner comes into her mother's room, he's overwhelmed by the smell. What is this about? It's got to be metaphorical, but for something so banal as Di's addled brain?
2) I couldn't watch Thomas eat that sandwich. I was really grossed out. He's chewing with his mouth open, eating infantile food. What is up with that? They made this huge point about what he was eating, the scene was shot to emphasize how sloppily (ie like a child) he was eating it, with crumbs on his mouth, etc etc. Why? Why? It's got to mean something, otherwise why did they subject us to the horror of it?

Wow, some great points here abzug.

I did make the connection between the secrets and the power struggles but just wasn't able to formulate it into words like you do! Unfortunately I don't have time to respond to your post now but I thought I'd mention something on the origins of poisoned chalice.

I always thought it had been coined by Shakespeare. I only had time to find one definition to back that up (not really sure how reliable this source is though) .....

"Poisoned Chalice - something apparently cordial but actually deadly
A quotation from Shakespeare (Macbeth, I, 7, line 11), where it is Macbeth's image for his murdering of the king while giving him hospitality (a chalice is a drinking cup). Shakespeare may have got the idea from the tradition that the enemies of St John once tried to kill him by offering him a poisoned cup (Acts of St John, 3rd century) and from medieval depictions of the saints holding a chalice with a serpent around it as an image of death."

I thought I'd mention it now in case it changed the slant on the episode or added any further ideas.

When I did a quick Google search, I caught the Macbeth usage, but couldn't quite fgure out if it was the first usage with this meaning. But your research seems to confirm that. So, that's awfully interesting. First, this would be the second Macbeth reference in S3. The whole storyline of Macbeth, with the unrelenting battles to obtain power, fits quite nicely with pretty much all the storylines in this episode. Fits right in with Helen's ascendance to the "throne" and the way it destroys her. This posits Nikki in the role of Lady Macbeth, and puts the first scene between she and Helen into context. Because in it, Nikki shows how much she ISN'T like Lady Macbeth, who goaded her husband to accumulate more and more power, fulfill his destiny, whatever the cost. And actually, given how important the spouse is in the power grab in Macbeth, it fits in with Fenner and Karen (obviously) and Josh and Crystal as well, and ties together the two paired ideas of war and marriage which show up in this episode.

Of course, one could argue that the phrase "poisoned chalice" has entered the common vernacular so thoroughly that to relate it specifically to Macbeth is over-reading the reference. But given the previous reference to the play, and the fact that there have been earlier Shakespeare references, AND that the show often alludes to historical styles of storytelling/plot construction, I figured it's probably worth exploring.

I must admit I took this expression completely at face value as it is in common usage. I'm not entirely convinced at the Macbeth connection but given previous references, it is definitely worth considering. It would nicely explain the power struggles in this episode.

Wasn't Macbeth more about deception though rather than secrets? I seem to remember everything is an illusion in Macbeth and things aren't always as they seem.

Does it make a difference to the discussion that it was actually Helen who mentioned the poisoned chalice and not Stubby? I have to admit, rather embarassedly, that I've never read Macbeth so I don't know how it may or may not tie into the parallel.

Helen: "Well, I know I've picked up a poison chalice but I'll do my best to keep a grip of it."

Quick question, if Series 1 was "based" on Romeo & Juliet and Series 3 is Macbeth, what was Series 2?

As far as this episode, and I know I mentioned it somewhere else on this board, we have Nikki giving Helen that subtle look of jealousy when Thomas mentions a drink. For once, it seems Nikki actually has a reason to be jealous. Unfortunately, we don't get to see if Helen picked up on this but it has to make you wonder if that moment was foreshadowing the upcoming Riot episode and Nikki's relenting decision to participate.

If Helen did pick up on Nikki's jealousy, she was just pleased that Nikki didn't behave on it.

There are only an assortment of points to add the ground which has been well covered and most certainly the main theme

1. It's ironic that Karen sees Di as someone reliable to be Crystal's personal officer.

2. I'd like some input on Helen correcting Nikki's greeting as 'Miss' instead of 'Helen' and substituting 'Ma'am'. I'm not sure she was serious (contrast Helen's 'I'm not the bloody Queen' to Fenner at the start of BG) or was that her intro into saying she's governing governor. I thought Nikki's muted reaction was her gut reaction to the news without her being able to put it into words.

3. In this episode, Caroline has grown up from the 'spoilt rich kid' that she was in having researched how the prison service was forced to retest as well as being morally upright in doing so.

4. I will give credit to Karen saying that Helen was 'as straight (in the old fashioned sense) as a die'

5. The situation of Di and her mother deserves quite a bit of study. I got the impression that there was no involvement by Social Services (who are a part of local authority organisation) at all. On the one hand, they could provide the obvious assistance of a 'home help' in the daytime and on the other, they could 'take her into care.' Di's emphasis on those words as her biggest nightmare contrasts so strangely with her years of resentment of her mother. In a way, she is far more imprisoned and circumscribed in every moment at home than the prisoners at Larkhall ever are and the very shocking storyline is something waiting to happen. The finale of the episode shows how the appearance of 'all is well' can be maintained behind respectable lace curtained windows unless someone like Fenner persists and gets to see what is really going on. It is a playoff of the standard unspoken commandment of not being an 'interfering neighbour' which may be just a particularly Brit thing.

6. Helen had the chance of hearing about Di's home life but unusually didn't show sympathy'

7. There is the enormous contrast of Josh and Crystal in not having to conceal their relationship and from Crystal's friends and Helen and Nikki's. The only difference is that Helen is higher ranking as Josh is Crystal's jailer, a point which strangely hasn't been brought out. Likewise is the comparison of their first night in the broom cupboard.

8. I got the impression when Nikki went to see Helen that Clair and Helen kept straight faces before telling Nikki the good news and Mandana's acting in response was just superb and, strangely, even early on, Helen had discussed Nikki's case with Thomas which seems a touch at odds with their shared secret though the appeal, in itself, needed no concealing.

9. A major theme was the normality of prisoners- in staging the wedding of Josh and Crystal and the real childlike joy of them all watching the foreworks with only the presence of the Peckham Boot Gang added the presentiment in the disturbance in the balence of power- Yvonne's 'not more big mouthed kids' was as much a verbal expression of disturbance of a precious moment as was Thomas's entry when Helen and Nikki snatched those precious seconds celebrating the news of the appeal and Helen's shift from 'you're almost there' to 'we're almost there.'

3. Charlotte, not Caroline, innit.

4. Yes, that line cracks me up. Also forshadows one of the reasons Karen doesn't believe Fenner, later, when he tells her about Nikki & Helen.

6. I think Helen was too busy being annoyed by Di's incompetency. Plus, Crystal's health severely suffered, as opposed to the slap on the wrist she was giving Di, so I think she was simply being sympathetic to the one who had suffered the most, from her vantage point. Also, with her Miss Marple routine, this season, & the way Simone said the "How can a simple step-by-step procedure go so wrong?", suggested that Helen sensed there was more than Di let on. .o0Oh no, I can remember direct quotes from episodes, already0o. Sure, Charlotte didn't come forward right away, but I didn't get the impression that Charlotte had ever been a suspect of being the cause of the switch. Helen didn't have a motive though, so she must have assumed negligence on Di's part, more than Di was explaining. Maybe there was some sympathy in that she didn't push harder on "how it happened." Not exactly trying to defend Helen here, I didn't get the impression she particularly cared about Di's situation at all. She could have just as easily decided further inquiry with Di wasn't going to lead to a different course of action.


Yes, Linen Cupboard seems rather

, Cassandra. A couple of walls and some shelves wouldn't have hurt. I could believe a prison had a large linen cupboard (think of all the beds and extra sheets they must need on supply, what w/ the ripping and other fouling & many beds. The cupboard might not even serve just G-wing.


More on other stuff, later.

Shit, I couldn't tell from my notes who had actually said this line, and I guessed wrong. But no, I don't think it makes a difference in terms of the symbolic meaning.

I go back and forth as to whether Nikki has a look of jealousy in that moment, when she hears Thomas ask Helen to meet her for a drink. Her first reaction ("Have one on me!") seems so genuinely enthusiastic, so I never know what to make of the look of seriousness which comes over her face when she meets Helen's eye after Thomas has closed the door. But definitely, there is a sense that in this scene, these two are NOT on the same page. Their easy, instinctive communication and connection has vanished. They look in eachother's eyes, and they aren't sure what they see there. It's only because they have reached this less-connected place that the riot could blow up the relationship the way it did.

This is an excellent point. The analogy being to what is going on at Larkhall, except at Larkhall, no one can really barge in and expose it. Helen's the most barge-like, but even she is also part of the system (as we will be reminded in just an episode or two!). It's really us, viewers, who play the role of Fenner, seeing the rotting stink which is behind the closed doors.

I've thought of this, but always chalked it up to the fact that Josh and Crystal got together before he was a prison officer, and when he became a prison officer, he never anticipated she would be an inmate again. But the lack of concern for secrecy is quite striking, given how terrified Helen is that her affair with Nikki would come out. I guess it's supposed to show that Josh doesn't really care one way or the other about his job as a career--if he can't be a prison officer, he can do something else. For Helen, her job is a crusade, and she's terrified to lose it.

I hadn't thought of the Peckham Boot Gang in connection with the Thomas intrusion and Di's attempted intrusion, but it's a great point. The outside intruders are what destabilize and destroy things, be it Helen and Nikki's relationship, the general calm and order on the wing, etc. Crystal and Josh are the only ones who come through it ok, which probably means something, although I can't think of what.

Another thought on 6. Helen's goal is to find out how & why Di screwed up and give her a good bollocking for it. She usually wasn't very sympathetic when she was giving Nikki a bollocking. Helen loves Nikki in comparison to some random employee she doesn't have any interest in, even as a friend. I mean, when you compare her chewing Nikki out to chewing Di out, it feels like she let Di off easy.

Good point, that, that Helen's sympathy was more balenced towards Crystal and that Helen could have probed the incident further but chose not to proceed further and partly let Di off the hook.

(I've thought of this, but always chalked it up to the fact that Josh and Crystal got together before he was a prison officer, and when he became a prison officer, he never anticipated she would be an inmate again. But the lack of concern for secrecy is quite striking, given how terrified Helen is that her affair with Nikki would come out. I guess it's supposed to show that Josh doesn't really care one way or the other about his job as a career--if he can't be a prison officer, he can do something else. For Helen, her job is a crusade, and she's terrified to lose it.) quote from Abzug )

Interesting one this as I identify more with Helen's attitude towards her job while Josh has a much more take it or leave it attitude - hence when he finally resigns from the prison service.

I'd agree with that view, Richard.

Long day. Rest of this is deeply trivial. Sorry. :)

Wanted to also put a toe in over the issue of Thomas's so-called horrible table manners. Yeah, they're tacky but I guess I don't feel the need to run from the room screaming when I see those crumbs. Then again, my screen is 13". So they're uh... crumb-sized. And I make every effort to look anywhere else.

1) I don't think Shed ever expected us to pick over every last cr--. Er. So it's possible there's no transcendent metaphor here. There are crumbs because he's a sloppy eater. (Now, men with food in their beards?! Gah, talk about disgusting...!)

2) I think this was a shorthand move meant to simply & quickly convey: TW is a guy who's comfortable with himself. He's so comfortable, in fact, he can eat a dumb kid's sandwich at work AND make a mess of it and not care. Which, we could quibble, is simply another secret coded sign that he's a white, heterosexual privileged male. But I don't think that was Shed's intent. I think it was just a quick-and-dirty way to portray the fact he was not a tight-ass. Sean most definitely was. He was a little prig. Thomas is not. And this is one of the ways we know that. And if you were setting up a case for Mr Perfect Guy--for Helen--not-a-tight-ass would probably be a good thing.


3) The fact that they didn't anticipate

3a) the fastidiousness of their audience, or
3b) the many, many ways that audience might find to not-love Dr Yes-Yes...

may have escaped them, just a bit.

Or maybe not, and it was a secret coded message to all women, everywhere: finger down the throat time, girls! Are we grossed out? Let's hear ya! 1, 2....


Oddly, what I always find myself thinking about during that scene (I avert my eyes from him; it's easier than running from the room shouting The horror! the horror!) is: Poor Helen. You know: having to manage a salad while he's making a perfect mess opposite her.

In this ep we were reminded of Helen's prophetic words way back in S1 when she said "watch this space" when asked when she would be the Nr 1. We're reminded of this in 2 ways: we see her driving her car into the prison and parking in the Gov Gov parking space. And then later on, when we've heard the news through the Karen/Fenner exchange, we also see Helen putting on her name tag, we get a close up of what the name tag says, and it's on the space where she normally wears her name tag.

Fenner attempts to subtly tone down Helen's power a bit, minimise it for himself. He did this when she was up on the 3s looking down, "surveying your new empire, ay?" G-wing was Helen's empire when she was the wing governor, her empire is now the whole of Larkhall and not only this one wing.

Nikki looked so sad, almost defeated, in this ep. She doesn't hang around after the lifers' meeting like she normally would, she just starts walking straight out of the room, Helen has to call her back to giver her the news. It is almost as if Helen becoming Nr 1 confirms to Nikki that she's lost the battle. Helen is now where she wanted to be all along (cf. S1's "watch this space" et al) and she's not going to miss this opportunity, her job is going to consume all of her yet again. Another interesting thing to note is that now that Helen is in a position of absolute power within the Larkhall world, she's done away with her power suits. She doesn't need an external locus of control anymore, it has all been internalised. Maybe it is the fact that Helen's sense of power has now been internalised that scares Nikki the most. It is much harder to go up against or try to change something in a person that has been internalised, because it is now to some extent an integrated part of that person.

I have to agree with this sense of disconnection to a large degree. However, I did feel that they were still connected when Nikki first came into the office, both before and after she read the letter. They looked at each other and I really got the sense that they were communicating a whole lot with their eyes. But the moment that Claire leaves the office and they are now able to communicate verbally, they are at a disconnect. Helen has to draw a response from Nikki, who is totally reserved, not showing what she thinks or feels. I think the tables were turned at this point. Nikki is now the one who is protecting and controlling her feelings for Helen and not the other way around as we had it up to this point. The moment Nikki lets herself show her feelings, they are interrupted by Thomas. I don't think Nikki was jealous of Thomas at all, she just totally forgot where she was, she was overwhelmed by the possibility of freedom. "Have one on me!" was a normal reaction one would have towards a friend when you had good news but you were unable to go out and celebrate. Helen's look was more one of "hey, don't let on you're in with the powers that be, you are in prison, remember, and there is a hierarchy here" (iow, that's no way to speak [in such a familiar tone] to a PO when you're at the bottom of the shit heap).

I don't agree with this statement. Throughout BG we have the underlying theme of truths and lies. Almost everyone accepts the lies for the truth and the truth for lies. Both Nikki and Helen are some of the exceptions, and in this instance Helen just couldn't be bothered to become emotionally involved with yet another lie. She had no proof that it was a lie and just wasn't in the mood to expose it as such, since she has learned that it was almost impossible to do so within the system.

I think abzug questioned the power play between Di and her mother, i.e. who has the power? Di is completely powerless in this situation and she tries to regain some sense of power by abusing her mother. Di reached the short end of her stick since her sense of power was also taken away at the other dimensions of her life, mainly through Charlotte/Josh exposing her. Both were people lower down the hierarchy than Di - Josh as (junior) officer against Di as senior officer, and Charlotte as con against PO. She is frustrated as hell, so she goes home and "kicks the dog". She claims back her sense of power through the one that is least able to resist it.

Yeah, that's where the high def tv is probably NOT a good thing. I had never been so appalled by this scene when I watched it on my old tv. Thanks for the analysis of the food thing. I think you're right, about the idea that Thomas is sort of earthy and primal, a caretaker, not prissy or afraid of being judged. Unrelated to the open-mouthed-chewing, I always thought this scene was showing just the easy intimacy which can occur between two people who are on the same side of the bars, because they can eat a meal together, and Nikki and Helen can't, and it's such a simple thing, and yet such a huge thing at the same time.

My first thought when I read this was to point out that Helen stopped wearing her suits after she stopped being Wing Gov. When she came back as Lifer's Liaison, she had already dropped the trappings of power, and was dressed in a much more relaxed way. But then I started thinking about it more, and I do think you're on to something here. With everyone else who gets a promotion (from prison officer to Wing Gov--and we see this happen A LOT), that promotion is tied tightly with the change in clothing, from uniform to business suit. It started with Helen's "Nice suit" comment to Jim, but there are many other explicit references to it, in relation to Karen, Sylvia, and pretty much everyone else who gets to be Wing Gov.

So it is striking that when Helen becomes the Number One, there is no change of clothing, no reference to her having to switch "uniforms" from being Lifer's Liaison to being Governing Gov. And I think you're right, microsofty, that this represents the way Helen has internalized her power and role, and doesn't need to display or perform it to those around her, by wearing a costume, as she did in S1.

You are totally right with this. I hadn't quite thought about it as clearly as you did, but it works with the anti-Lady Macbeth idea above, where Nikki is fighting for Helen's soul, with Helen's ambition as her opponent--as opposed to Lady McB, who actually IS McB's ambition, and doesn't mind sacrificing his soul (or hers) in the process.

It is FASCINATING how many different ideas we've come up with for this particular exchange of looks! I always thought Helen had a look of semi-amusement on her face, not criticism. I just wasn't sure whether the semi-amusement was a reaction to Nikki's surprising lack of jealousy, or a reaction to the shared secret that Thomas had almost walked in on them. Man, this scene is just beyond ambiguous!

This is excellent. Thank you for taking this so much further than I could. It makes complete sense that Di's disempowerment at work in this specific episode is what inspired an escalation in the abuse she was inflicting on her mother. And I really like the "kick the dog" image--it's so perfect in this case.

Let me complete the sentence & sorry for not completing it further. It was in response to "Why isn't Helen sympathetic with Di? The statement was meant to be ready as:

I think Helen was too busy being annoyed by Di's incompetency to feel sorry for her.

It wasn't to be read as the reason I thought Helen wasn't pursuing the truth. Somewhere where I put that pretty much agreed with your, Microsofty's assessment of her reasons, but didn't put them in the same nice succinct way connecting it to overarching themes.

I can remember first time around that Thomas Waugh was very rapidly nicknamed Dr Sunpat. I certainly agree with both ekny's and abzug's very valid points about the doctor. My take is that there is something deliberately idiosyncratic and unselfconscious about him and the readiness both Helen and Thomas talked briefly about their childhood, that they had the time to talk and be free from interruptions. There's another point that Sean was definitely a control freak underneath that deliberately casual manner yet I didn't get that feeling from the doctor, psychiatrist though he is.
I cannot enlarge any more on the final Helen Nikki visual exchange except that Nikki heard first hand that Helen and the doctor were going for a drink with no untoward reaction.

For Americans, Sunpat is a peanut butter brand in the UK that, as far as I know, we don't have here.

But is this what attracted Helen to Thomas in the first place? If I were in her shoes, my first thought would certainly not be "oh gosh, this guy is just so comfortable with himself, look at the careless way in which he's eating his sandwich". I would lean more towards "close your mouth when you eat, you twat, didn't your mom teach you any manners?" They way in which he behaves would put me off him, not attract me to him! But maybe that's just me...

I think Thomas' table manners, or rather lack thereof, should be read in context. At the time of this crumb spitting incident, he is talking about the residents of the Muppet wing, saying "they shouldn't be on double doses of anti-psychotic drugs" while at the same time he acts like a complete nutter himself. His eating habits is probaly a way to stress that appearances can be deceiving - just because someone comes across as a nutter, doesn't necessarily mean they are a nutter.

Or they did it on purpose. Thomas is Dr Sunpat Smooth, what's not to like? We were supposed to be put off by him, to not like him, 'cause we're still rooting for H&N all the way! To obtain the desired effect, they have Thomas eating like a prize bull, which immediately evokes a reaction on our side, something to the effect of "what the hell are you thinking, Helen?"

Huh. Reading microsofty's post has planted an idea in my head. About hunger. Experiencing it, satisfying it. About hunger as a primal human desire. About how human beings are hungry for a lot of things: food, love, power, money.

So it's not just that Helen is eating grownup food, and Thomas is eating kid food. It's that Thomas is completely and utterly satisfying his hunger, exactly as he wants to, with a food that is delicious and filling, and which he loves. Helen, meanwhile, is eating a salad. Very grownup, yes, very polite. But not very filling. Salads are what women eat when they are on a diet. I'm not saying Helen is on a literal diet, but more on an emotional one. A Nikki-less-diet. She's denying herself, she's not satisfying her emotional hunger for Nikki. That's why Claire shows up while she's eating the salad, because it's like she's shown up to tell Helen that very soon she is going to be dining on a sumptuous feast. And Helen is hungry for that feast. That's why she grabs Nikki's arm, that's why she comes dangerously close to kissing her. (It's probably a stretch to connect this with an observation I had when I was watching this episode, which is that Nikki looks positively GAUNT in her scenes with Helen.)

So we've got Thomas, who represents satiety; and we've got Nikki, who later calls herself a "sex-starved con" but we don't need her to put it to words to know that's what she's feeling, and who can't even share a meal with Helen, let alone provide her with any emotional nourishment at this point. Helen won't allow her to do it.

:clap

You rock.

Helen denying herself the feast. I totally love this concept, abzug! Although the need for belongingness and love would feed into a higher level on the hierarchy of needs, in this instance - and the way in which you so aptly describe it - places it at the very bottom of the hierarchy. Oh, the irony then! Helen needs Nikki to satisfy her lower order needs before she can reach the level of self-actualisation, before she can really succeed in her job and be truely happy!

Ha! Who said we can't analyse a breadcrumb...? :)

Well done, abzug. I really love this theory.

I had totally the wrong take on this scene. I thought it was there for two reasons. Firstly to establish Thomas as a likeable big kid (in spite of his eating habits), wolfing down large mouthfuls of a kid's sandwich. Later when Yvonne says "Not more bleedin' big-mouthed kids', I took it to imply that Thomas was the 'big-mouthed kid'. Secondly, there were a few references to food/weight outwith this scene. I thought they were making some sort of statement about power by contrasting the PO's with Crystal (or the prisoners in general?); Thomas taking his huge mouthfuls with Crystal who is struggling to manage only a few after her hunger strike, Gina wanting to lose a few pounds with Crystal who is described as a scarecrow and so on.

It's amazing how we can all watch the same scenes yet have totally different ideas!

Oh, I actually think all those ideas are right on the money as well. This is one of those themes/metaphors which work on a lot of different levels. In fact, it wasn't until I read your post that I connected Crystal starving herself (as a protest so her lover will believe her) with Helen "starving" herself, except Helen's doing it so she doesn't have to sacrifice her career/morals. I had totally missed the Gina bit, but it fits right in, because Gina is absolutely the most sexually voracious character on the show, especially now that Shell's gone. She's constantly knocking Di as being prudish (what do you have between your legs, a photo of Jesus?). I'm actually amazed now that we're picking up on it, how much the food/starvation imagery pervades this episode. Are there any other examples we haven't touched on yet?

Brilliant theory, Abzug, and this locks in neatly with a theme in a previous episode of Helen's drive for self control for safety's sake- I have got that right?

Excellent comments and commentary from ALL of you.
I watched the epi several days ago to prepare for discussion only to have been away and then missed the discussion. I must say I have enjoyed the posts herein better than I enjoyed the episode itself....thank you all for givng me the opportunity to appreciate this BG epi where otherwise I might not have.

I especially love all the food/starving anologies, considering the whole epi started with Crystals hunger strike. I never would have put all that together.

As for the "jealousy" thing....that is definitely one challenging/disproving look Nikki sends Helen's way for a micro second before the scene cuts after the jovial "have one for me" comment. She all but glares at Helen. As someone mentions, this could begin the set up for the devolution of the relationship coming up with the riot. It does not speak of jealousy to me so much as challenging Helen to explain what is going on. But alas the scene cuts without us the audience being shown Helen's reaction to Nikki's glare. Without the reaction shot it is easy to miss or overlook Nikki's moment. At the very end, a scene which should have Nikki jumping for joy (the court has agreed to hear her appeal) to one in which she scowls and is displeased. No jealousy here, just displeasure, the opposite of what she should likely be feeling.

As you said it is easy to miss but it is also a very definite reaction. I suspect even with Helen's response, it would be highly ambiguous. Again I read this completely differently. As Nikki was relaxed and almost joking with Thomas, I didn't connect that look with jealousy or even with Thomas. To me it was a look more of deep emotion (overcome?) in that Nikki was trying so hard to suppress her own feelings in relation to both Helen and the appeal ... trying to keep them secret. Possibly so that she was still in control and wouldn't break down.

I know food was mentioned when Di confronted the two Julies but can't recall enough to connect to anything. Think it was something to do with supper finishing early, Crystal's eating and the flabby line? Sorry, can't think of any more at the moment.

The only other food related example I can think of is that Nikki was standing in the lunch queue when Gina came to fetch her to go and see Helen. In aid of the good news, Nikki was denied her lunch.

I'm a little more aligned with what you are saying, as far as Nikki challenging Helen. It felt to me like Nikki was trying to actively show Helen that she'd grown a lot since the Dominic incident(s). She's not going to jump to show her jealousy and not trust Helen, like she has in the past.

I don't want to use the word jealous because I equate that word with more anger than I think Nikki has at this moment. Envy seems a little milder/less hostile.

To me, Nikki's look was a mixture of acknowledgement of Helen's life outside of Larkhall and a longing to be a part of that. Her look that pretty much said "I wish that were me."

invisicoll Posted on May 12 2007, 02:59 PM
[QUOTE]I don't want to use the word jealous because I equate that word with more anger than I think Nikki has at this moment. Envy seems a little milder/less hostile. [QUOTE]
Nikki has just been told about the appeal bid going thru and she's too overwhelmed with emotions. I would say she's in a magnanimous frame of mind to even realize if there's anything going on between Thomas and Helen.

Oh, I wasn't thinking that far ahead. I just mean envious of having the freedom to leave the building and have a conversation over cocktails.

You know, seen in the context of hunger being a metaphor for their need for love and belonging, the Julies saying Di's at the gym "She was feeling a bit flabby." "Yeah, flabby." does end up having a real meaning. In the scene is highly amusing, because of Crystal's whole hunger strike, no one is going to believe that Crystal is feeling flabby.

However, taken in the context that Crystal is actually having a wedding ceremony with Josh, so she's really getting her fill. In the sense of happy and fulfilled in love, Crystal is far past flabby in comparison with the others in this episode. So she's in gym, excercising her right to fulfillment (in opposition to the "rules"), which leaves her cup is overflowing (flabby).

On top of that and maybe just because I'm American, I had thought it a little odd to call the linen closet a cupboard (especially, given the size of it). I could see them calling it a cupboard if it was the sort that was just open the door and there are a bunch of shelves, but that thing was seriously walk in. In context of the metaphor, cupboard, makes me think more of cupboards for food storage, than linen or anything else. Here we have Crystal, on her Honeymoon with Josh and the two of them are the most satiated out of everyone.

Also, being put forth, is that those who take the greatest risks (hunger strikes, illegal wedding, PO & inmate) with the assistance of their inner circle of accepting friends are currently at least reaping the most benefits (marraige & honeymoon).

PS.(I put this together a bit quick, so maybe I didn't put this quite right or support it properly, but I'm in a rush, sorry.

In general, great discussion, I'm glad to have nabbed a little bit of time to expand on something, rather than read and wish I had more time.)

Love it! It's absolutely perfect. This hunger idea really unlocks a lot in this episode. I'm so excited at how many layers everyone is pointing out.

invisicoll Posted on May 12 2007, 05:54 PM

Hi, I was just talking about that particularly scene in Helen's office. Claire puts that envelope in front of Nikki and tells her the good news about the appeal and Nikki is all emotional with tears of joy. Afterwards Claire leaves and Helen and Nikki are rejoicing when Thomas walks in and Helen tells him about Nikki's appeal. Because Nikki is almost in a state of shock and joy and in a magnanimous gesture she tells him "have one on me yeah?" But then her mien changes when it dawns on her that Helen will be going for a drink with Thomas while she'll have to go back to her cell. I also thought Nikki looked quite tanned(notice her hand) and beautiful there.


Regarding Thomas's eating habits. I didn't find anything untoward or irritating, I mean he was excitedly talking and eating at the same time. He obviously doesn't care for manners, the way he just barges in any room without knocking is any indication. Main thing is why is Helen so full of beans in the company of this sartorially-challenged but 'dashing' doctor. Is Nikki so forgetable?

Yeah, nice pickup Washuai. Now why the hell didn't I think of that!

Yes, there's far too much floor space. I can accept that it is a big cupboard but it should be stuffed with shelves (& linen!) as space would be at a premium. Having said that, some houses in the UK have what we call "airing cupboards" where the boiler for the central heating is located. They are usually used to dry washing or may have shelves for storing linen but can be small rooms in themselves.

This is still bugging me especially since there's another line that Yvonne says when telling Josh about Di - "Something stinks around here and it ain't just them piss pots." Only thing I can think of is to emphasis her dishonesty and deceitfulness. I think thats one of the meanings of the word "stink". Unless stink also means complete fruitcake?

And still the discussion continues .....

This is a brilliant and very insightful connection, cassandra! Both references to "stink" (by Yvonne and later on Fenner's reaction) are made in relation to Di and/or Di's actions, so clearly it must have some meaning! Two defintions of the word stink would apply to Di:

1. to be very bad or worthless
2. to be despicably corrupt or dishonest

There's one point that has crossed my mind. To do her job, Helen needs allies. In the past, Dominic was her ally at basic prison officer level and Nikki among the prisoners- also Karen is added in. Shed write very effectively that it is no good having good intentions at a high level of management as they can get twisted- the classic instance is of Helen's anti drug campaign which Shell and Fenner used very sneakily to discredit Helen. Helen comes to learn the wisdom to work at these various levels right down to what happens on the prison landing and gets to achieve her successes. The discussion with Thomas is all about the high level reforms that can be brought about and she doesn't have to cross boundaries (as she does with Nikki) to talk to Thomas- he's safe. Not only that, he has the formal power to make the necessary changes and perhaps Helen's attracted to that. This is an attempt to deal with badgirlnut's very valid question.

Helen's promotion removes her up and away from the layer she used to operate and, at the risk of intruding into the next episode, the same heavy handed stuff goes on which visibly winds Nikki up despite Helen's increased 'power'. She's being taken away from the practical arena where good can be done. To make it worse, Shed write a very original storyline of someone who has gained some wisdom and at this point loses it- letting her promotion go to her head. and I'm sure that this is why Nikki isn't positive about Helen's promotion- she feels it at gut root level without being able to put it into words.

I hadn't spotted Washuai's interesting point about Crystal feeling flabby- in this context, the Julies go for it in a pretty decisive way in tying up Di Barker and locking her up in the cupboard- and yes, the linen cupboard, is a fairly oversize affair.