For anyone who is interested, just saw that Simone made it to place 20 on the Hot 100 list on the afterellen web site. I think it's great!

I can't believe Mandana didn't make it. That is so fucked up. And unfathomable to me. I mean, some of the people they have on this list, well, ugh, whatever. I'm stopping now....

ETA: Carmen Electra?!?! Over Mandana Jones? Shoot me now!

In Germany we have a saying: Über Geschmack lässt sich nicht streiten.

Meaning something like: One can't argument about taste.

That is what I thought about the one or other name on this list. I too can't believe that Mandana didn't make it.

Totally fucked up. I stopped going through the list when I read that Mandana "almost made the list". Almost? How can that be?! I can't believe the Nr 1 is the nr 1, frightening. Maybe I would have had a different opinion if I actually watched and/or enjoyed TLW. Oh, and can I just say that they really could've picked a far sexier photo for SL.

I tell you: it's criminal...


Unbelievable.

I propose that we start our own top 100 list...

Definitely could have used a better pic of Simone. There are far better pics of her floating around cyberspace!

Oh my, that's quite umm... incompetent.

I feel bad for Mandana, but I think it's great about Simone in the top 20. I agree they could have used a sexier one of her.

I feel bad that I didn't vote. I didn't care about the list in the least ... until I saw Mandana left off. Not that it's a competition between her and Simone, but it makes it seem like (and maybe this is helped along by the crush the recapper has on Simone) Mandana is somehow less compelling. Just not the case, at least for me, and I'm saying that in regard to the character she played as well as the woman herself.

And it's ironic because of course Mandana played a full-on, no-doubt-about-it lesbian character for three seasons. Maybe that's not as "hot" to some people as watching Helen's journey from the straight life to "I want a woman."

LOL, I just checked out the top 100, and I don't know who a third of those women are, ha ha...
My top twenty happened to be scattered all throughout the top 100, oops and some aren't even on there..... I definitely don't get this list, but then I didn't vote, and probably lots of folks didn't....

Mandana has every right to be on that list ... more so than most. Thank God they had the common sense to include our Simone though. Why didn't they check with us for a better picture? We all have many pictures a lot hotter than that one! :wub:

i checked the list late afternoon and the comments at the end. i got the impression from sarah warne's post that they changed the picture of jackie warner. maybe if someone sent a better picture of simone, they'd replace it?

Just looked at the list and agree with all you say the pic of Simone is certainly not one of her best i have many that are much better than that rubbish pic.

As for Mandana how could she possibly not make the list shes beautiful :D

See what I mean?




Dreamy :rolleyes:

Thats mint thats Simone is numner 20!!! :D :wub: I totally agree with everyone that the pic they used isnt the best pic of her, still nice tho.

Too bad that Mandana didnt make the list, she should have done, definately.

Number 20??? They should all be made to watch Beyond the Valley of the Dolls 20 times, walk barefoot through Larkhall singing old disco songs, and wake up next to Bodybag. :)

All hail Helen and Nikki! Hooray!

-------------
"How can I be your best friend when I don't even like you." -- Party Monster

Route66, you are SO funny! :rofl

Someone should e-mail scribegrrl (the BG recapper with the mad crush on Simone) and attach a couple of pics that we suggest they switch to? Couldn't hurt. Anyone with a really hot close up recent pic? Most of my stuff is all BG.

I am bummed about Mandana, but for Simone to make the top 20 beating out hotties like Evangeline Lilly, Kate Beckinsale, Kristinanna Loken, Gina Gershon AND the lesbianation.com constant top #1 and #2 Renee O'Connor and Lucy Lawless. I think it is SO awesome!!

silverballnz - I totally see what you mean. That's one of my favourite pictures of Mandana.

So wistful...


lisa 2007 - would it be the end of the world if the picture of simone was from bad girls?

:rofl Excellent idea ladder! I'll second that.

I don't recognise some of the women on the list but I would definitely have put both Simone & Mandana high up. Must admit I'm gutted that Mandana didn't make it at all. Nice pic, silverballnz .... illustrates the point nicely. And yes, Simone could do with a much better picture. *hint* *hint*

I don't know where Mandana got the impression about her being an international gay icon. I hope this list will disabuse her of the idea.

ITA. Let's discuss it. In detail.

Hi Lisa and Cassandra. I perfectly understand your sentiments that Mandana didn't make the list. Simone's placing is partly owed to scribegirl's errm enthusiastic and capable writing. :lol: More to the point, it has pushed Bad Girls into greater prominence amongst what I assume to be a largely American audience.

ekny Posted on Jun 9 2007, 03:11 Am.

After the second season of BG, Mandana received tonnes of mail which she assumes were mostly from women (since she didn't read all the letters) who were affected by her portrayal of a gay woman on TV in a positive way. In the media the very few times she was interviewed the questions were always about her playing the gay role, which she didn't take exception to. Simone too got fan mail probably double the amount and even though Shed insisted that she was a lesbian, she was never asked how she felt playing a lesbian and nor was she forthcoming as to the type of mail she received.
I have no idea where I'm going with this except to say that Mandana got the responsibility but when it came to accolades it was anyone but Mandana. I have come to the conclusion that Mandana probably has more non gay fans than Simone and that she should be made aware of this.

Ah. I took your comment as tongue in cheek, & found it, accordingly, very funny--& was agreeing in a humorous way, I thought. I see your answer, though, is pretty serious, and do agree with the points you've made... except perhaps the last, a bit? That is, most of the interviews I've read seem to indicate she feels it's a pretty high split, with like 60% dykes & 30% straight women & 10% men (which latter seems very politic to me, though perhaps a bit wishful, reality-wise). But it's not like she seems to have any kind of issue with the lesbian-thang whatsoever. :) She's been pretty brilliant about it, really. --e

i'm a little confused as to your point. are you saying something along the lines of, "manada may think she has lesbian fans, but really, no one likes her as much as they like simone, so i'm glad she didn't make the list. maybe now she'll stop deluding herself?"

why do you think that manada doesn't have lesbian fans? (that's actually two questions, i guess. one: why are you under the impression that M has no gay fans? two: what do you think the reason would be for lack of said fans?)

i've got to run, but this topic interests me, so i hope to read / think more about it later.
m.

It's not like there's a competition, but I just want to point out the obvious, which is that we don't know who received more (or how much more) fan mail. Also, Simone was a more established and better known presence on TV before BG. In addition, you could argue that Helen's struggle with her sexuality (in addition to other elements of her storyline) would drive more fans to write in, as compared to Nikki, whose sexuality was assured. I think in season 3, for instance, Helen's story got really interesting, and Nikki's story was reduced. I'd assume that would lead to more mail for Simone but perhaps no less interest and appreciation for Mandana.

Shed insisted Helen was a lesbian only at the end of the third season. Prior to that, she was a straight character, and then a character struggling to figure out her sexuality. Simone wouldn't be asked during seasons 1 and 2 about playing a gay role, because she wasn't doing so. And saying she wasn't "forthcoming" makes it sound like she purposely held something back. I think she just wasn't asked, right?

Agreed, and I think you're right that the gay community appreciates Mandana a great deal, regardless of how a few hundred people voted in the AfterEllen poll.

ekny Posted on Jun 9 2007, 07:43 PM

After 2 years on this site I've come to believe that the lesbian fan base is split SL 70% and MJ 30% and that MJ has a far larger fan base among the straight(women) than SL.

EKNY

None whatsoever. She's very open-minded person.

msalt Posted on Jun 9 2007, 10:53 PM

My educated guess is that it is split 70/30 in favor of SL.

DontUWish Posted on Jun 9 2007, 11:10 PM

No competition and not obvious.

Not true, infact MJ was in a london soap for 3 years.

.

My post specifies it's after the 2nd series

Again my post says after the 2nd series.

Exactly why wasn't she? Why didn't she volunteer like MJ. Did her agents tell her to keep shtum?

Just my POV.

Just wanted to pop in here before driving up to Scotland and caught this completely by chance (its the only thread I've read in about 3 or 4 days).

One point - Simone always had the largest fan base, even when the series first ran.

I am sure other "old guard" members like myself on the original Larkhall Insider remember as a Mandana fan, you knew you were outnumbered by some considerable margin - That if you saw a poll about who do you like the most, often Simone would get 90+% of the vote.
Our website stats also hold this up - except for the last 18 months or so, whereby the Mandana site had a real surge of interest. Mandana is definitely appreciated more by the American audience - far more than she ever was by the UK one.
If the websites are anything to go by in more general terms, currently we have about a 50/50 spilt of interest, with Simone's just creeping up - but its pretty obvious that is simply because of her up coming role for WITB rather than BG's.

Nikki Wade never 'stood' out like Helen Stewart did for many viewers from day one. The number of people who had no idea about characters sexuality who I've spoken to over the years all say, Simone stood out the minute she stood on the wing. Why Simone and not Mandana? Partly they say because she was the figure of authority, Mandana was merely a prisoner and somehow that seemed to stay with quite a chunk of audience for some time into the show.

No I don't know why it happens - but it always has, and this is no different. No doubt there is a multitude of reasons we will never fathom out.

Off now to drive to Scotland.

I guess in the end the popularity contest just makes me feel a little ill. That's what I meant about it not being a competition. Both women seem pretty deserving of whatever attention they get.

I do think it's more than fair to say Simone was the better known actress heading into the series, and MJNet makes good points about Helen's character being in some ways the easier for the majority to relate to.

About why Simone didn't talk about playing a lesbian ... I'd go back again to saying Helen wasn't a firmly established lesbian until the last episode of season three. There's no evidence to suggest Simone failed to respond to any question posed to her on any topic. No reporter ever suggested Simone said "no comment" or anything like that, and she did delve into other sexuality-related topics like the first kiss.

Also, there's no evidence to suggest Simone's agents told her what to say (or not say) about her character's sexuality or anything else. We could surmise the same about Mandana -- that her agents told her to talk openly about her character's sexuality to draw in the lesbian audience. But that kind of conjecture is never resolved and can create an unfair (mis-)perception.

I'm a bit disappointed that Mandana did not make the 100 list, but not surprised. Both Mandana and Simone are very attractive women, but Simone is attractive in a more conventional way. To me I personally think Mandana is more attractive and unique at the same time.

Mandana should have been on the list as well, I agree, she's very sexy.... Don't worry Mandana, that list is crap! LOL

Hiya...first post to this amazing board. Brilliant analytical deductions...most impressive.

All I can say is that the poll is just that...It is a North American poll mostly with a U.S. slant. Logo does a crappy job of advert of BG. The L Word is crap, but we at least have it. The poll is very slanted towards what Americans mostly see. There are very few British and Aussies represented.

Since I caught the BG bug in January (through Netflix series 1) I have tried in vain to get friends and/or anyone who will listen to watch this fantastic show...so far no takers....

Which goes to show that you cannot account for good taste. IMO most American tv shows are set for the attention span of someone reading whilst on the crapper. So...again...depending on who you poll....

Mandana is bloody fantastic, so is Simone...it would be hard in America to get a 19 year old to vote for either of them...again..ya can't account for good taste!

Hey Bluedogblues, welcome to the board!

I'm with you on the lack of marketing etc, so of course it's hard to expect that SL and MJ could have as broad an impact as American stars who are in the press on a daily basis.

I've been thinking, since ILMJN's post, about why Mandana/Nikki might have more fans in the US than she did in the UK, on a percentage basis. I hate to make broad cultural generalizations (esp. about "Americans" as if we're some homogeneous category), but I'll risk it anyway. Is it possible that certain aspects of Nikki's character (her bluntness, her outspokenness, her lack of interest in "behaving" or in propriety in general, her aggressiveness) are somehow less troubling to Americans? Perhaps because American culture actually values some of those traits? Again, I'm not speaking for all Americans, just in terms of generalities. And in particular, it's highly possible I am way off base when it comes to English culture, and how much it values politeness. :)

(I mean, just because I read this book doesn't mean I'm an expert or anything!)

That is an interesting point Abzug. BTW, I find your analysis of the episodes most interesting and spot on. I have not read the book you linked, but I venture to guess that Americans as a whole are more outspoken, adventurous, and yes; agressive.

In the same token, depending on what part of America you live in, it changes dramatically. Being from New York and moving to Texas was a fascinating culture shock.

I never really thought of the popularity of the Nikki/Helen characters based on culture before, but it is interesting food for thought. Personally I like both characters. They are the ying/yang to each other. Together, they sizzle and IMO when they are on the screen together pop out. But, I found that Nikki stole my heart with her righteous attitude. Helen makes me crazy...what is going on in that mind of hers? Perhaps that is why Helen stands out for many...

Going back to Logo...such a disappointment in how they handle this show. I agree with you A. about that bloody blue ball bouncing around..WTF? and with no thought to the scene they do it in. The teaser ads have done nothing to attract people I know into watching it. Certainly they could have used a few Helen/Nikki clips to get interest.

Sorry to get off the subject a bit, but that has bothered me.

This is an interesting discussion, especially ILMJNet's post. My impression on first watching BG is that Helen grabbed my attention very quickly while it took a little time for Nikki to make an impression. After a while, I ended up becoming more of a Nikki fan. What is curious that there should be a polarised attitude towards the two characters.

Abzug's theory is a highly interesting one and I can imagine that Nikki's outspokenness would , as it were, 'wash over' American viewers or alternatively, be something that would be accepted as part of a normal mental landscape. The cultural comparisons sound easily possible to me.

Mandana grabbed my attention right from the start when she was standing next to Rachel in her very first scene. I do believe she even rolled her eyes at Fenner during that scene. I was mesmerised by her whole conduct and they way she carried herself. To this day I'm much more of a Nikki fan than a Helen fan, and if I'm honest, I think it is because she represents my ideal self. I would love to be so outspoken and forthright about issues close to my heart.

Every time when I now watch S1E1 I have to suppress a giggle when Helen walks onto the wing for the first time and they have this heavy music playing in the background to signify the importance of the moment. I just find that whole scene so overly serrrrious (to quote Helen), that it has become funny to me. If that makes any sense.

:)

That is so true MS. I *want* people to tell me as it is..not hide behind a facade and have you guess what is going on. If I'm being honest, I am more like Helen as to not expressing my feelings so easily. I am drawn like a moth to a flame to someone who wears their heart on a sleeve. I had a parallel universe in a previous life where I was the manager and the employee was pursuing me. I get Helen...the whole moral compass etc...
perhaps that is why she makes me crazy! LOL

If we are talking about the AE poll..and it IS a mostly American poll...and Mandana might be arguably more popular in America...then how come she did not rate in it????

IMO goes back to Americans barely know BG and the ones that do...get on message boards and obsess about it. :wink