Well guys, this is it. We've been at it since September, and I have to admit as I turned on the dvd player this evening I felt rather sad to be at the final episode. I wanted to kick things off early because I'm going away Thursday morning and didn't want to miss out on the discussion (although depending on everyone else's tv viewing schedules, I guess that's highly possible).

Before I get to the good stuff, one thing I'm really excited about is that I finally understand the whole murder of Virginia business. I think I've seen this episode four times, and this is the first time I've gotten it. Once Helen quits, Yvonne realizes Virginia is the key to getting rid of Fenner. But Virginia isn't interested in allying with her, so Yvonne starts bad mouthing Virginia to the entire wing, getting Maxi to go after her, etc all of which makes Virginia feel very very vulnerable. So Virginia agrees, or hints at agreeing, to testify against Fenner, which is what Yvonne has been trying to get her to do the entire episode. Fenner overhears this, and gets Maxi and Al to murder Virginia so she won't tell about the brothels and get him fired. And then frames Yvonne with it, thus getting rid of two birds with one stone. Clever, really.

The reason I never understood the Virginia-Yvonne-Fenner business before was because I never realized until just now how this episode is entirely about witnesses providing testimony. This idea of testimony operates within a broader look at trials, judgment and punishment in this episode, but it's the testimony part where all the power lies.

First, the trials and judgment. Of course, this episode focuses on Nikki's appeal, so it's almost facile to say that trials and judgment are a theme of the episode. However, the episode juxtaposes all different kinds of trials and judgment around the core trial. The episode opens with Josh standing above Crystal, looking down on her in judgment. Later in the episode, Crystal gets to return the favor when Di asks for her for forgiveness and instead Crystal calls her "evil." But in this opening, Josh's judgment is followed by Virginia coming out of her cell, seemingly for the first time since she was locked up after her "miraculous" recovery. The entire wing jeers at her, enforcing its own form of judgment, with only Tina remaining loyal, standing up for her as a witness.

Standing up as a witness is a very risky thing to do. Maxi punishes Tina pretty immediately, beating her up thoroughly for her betrayal. Sally Ann Howe dropped her charges against DS Gossard because she was threatened with professional retaliation if she testified about what happened. When she gives in she fares no better than Tina--she is pushed out of the police force anyway. And in Virginia's case, her willingness to "drop Fenner in it" is what gets her killed. Not only is there punishment for testifying, but there is the risk of inefficacy, of one's testimony not being believed. Obviously no one believes Tina when she stands up for Virginia. But certain people also seem to not believe Sally Ann Howe, as the prosecutor (or whatever it's call in the UK) questions the value of Sally Ann Howe's word, as if it's worth nothing if it's not corroborated.

The problem with testimony, the reason it's not believed, is so much of it is false, either due to deliberate lies, or people's unwillingness to see things clearly, or both. Helen seems to be the only character who values truth above everything else--she won't allow Barbara to lie on her behalf, authenticity being more important to her than saving her job. Not so to many other characters, from Virginia who treats the bible with the same respect perjurers do (witness the many scenes of her pretending to pray in thanks for her miraculous cure). Crystal, the Christian, concocts and stands by the story of her immaculate conception in order to save Josh's job. Fenner manipulates Karen back onto his side after Helen's accusations, telling Karen "you can see right through me" and then sealing the deal with a marriage proposal. Blech. But as this scene with Karen demonstrates, it's not just the lies, but the failure of the witnesses. Very few people seem able to see what Fenner is doing. In the car on the way to Nikki's appeal, after Fenner pulls his stunt with Nikki's hand on his thigh and Di reprimands Nikki for her outburst, Nikki retorts "Oh when will you open your eyes?" All of the potential witnesses against Fenner have their eyes closed, and can't or won't see what he's doing.

If only they could, because there's strength and power which can come from testifying. Yvonne testifies with perhaps the most efficacy in the entire episode when she tells the entire wing over lunch about Virginia and Fenner's little deal to run Virginia's brothels. Even though Sylvia silences Yvonne (there's that pesky rule 47 again!), Yvonne manages to back Virginia up against a wall, all part of her ultimate strategy to bring Fenner down. Fenner accomplishes something similar with Thomas by informing him of Helen's relationship with Nikki. He's wildly wrong about the details, but Thomas believes him. Nikki also testifies against Fenner, in the only way she can. Her moment in front of the television cameras provides her with the opportunity to be a witness, not to her crime, but to the horrors she's seen in prison. She speaks to the press, perhaps the only potential jury for the crimes of the prison system, and bears witness against Fenner, and for Helen. No one else is able or willing to do this, and so it has to be Nikki "No Speeches" Wade.*

Helen spends most of the episode avoiding giving testimony. Well, not exactly. Like Yvonne, she's eager to testify as much as she can against Jim Fenner. She takes her last opportunity in Karen's office (in front of Jim as well--in a court the accused is able to face his or her acuser) to remind Karen that Jim is a "misogynist bastard" and how she's been trying to get Karen to see it. She also (we find out later) prepares a sort of affidavit, a written testimony of Fenner's attack on her. She can be a witness against Fenner now that she's got "nothing to lose." But she still avoids, as much as she can, being a witness against herself. When she tells Thomas she's quitting, he demands honesty from her about her reasons, and she refuses to tell him. She's worried about how he'll react, how he will judge her, and she gets defensively hostile the more he pushes her. She can't tolerate his judgment for quitting seemingly without a fight, but she can't tolerate his judgment even more for having an affair with Nikki, so she'll settle for being judged for the former. Even once Thomas knows about she and Nikki, Helen still avoids telling him any sort of truth. She obfuscates, babbling on about choices of who she wants to be with, talking about how things get "twisted" in prison, "it's its own little world."

According to Thomas, Helen is hiding things from herself, and so in a way, Helen's trying to avoid being not just the witness, but also the judge and jury on herself. For three seasons she's been deeply uncomfortable at her moral weaknesses in relation to Nikki, her flexibility with her principles. Whether she was comfortable with the idea of being in a lesbian relationship is almost besides the point, because she wasn't comfortable being anything other than perfectly upright, playing by all the rules. Self-judgment, in its way, is the most effective silencer, even more than fear of punishment.

Helen must overcome this self-judgment, her silence, and therefore it's testimony which drives the action of the final sequence between Helen and Nikki. As she has this entire episode, Helen at first avoids reveal anything. When Nikki asks if she's got someone waiting for her, Helen's response is silence followed by absence. Trish serves as the witness for both Helen and Nikki, pointing out that Nikki doesn't "make speeches like that for all the girls" and then insisting to Nikki after Helen leaves the bar that "of course she's bloody interested." When Nikki chases after Helen, and Helen confesses that she and Thomas split up, Nikki tries to protect Helen from the dangers of testifying, to give Helen an out, to allow Helen to continue her avoiding silence, saying "I know what you're saying." But Helen is finally ready to testify, she needs to stand up for herself as her own witness. She presents her evidence in quite a logical manner. "Thomas is gorgeous" but he doesn't do anything for Helen. She doesn't want him, she doesn't want a man.

While we like to remember the closing of this episode as the scene of Helen and Nikki kissing outside the bar, the other moment which closes out the episode is far more chilling. Fenner stands over Yvonne as Yvonne gets carried down to solitary. His face and body tower over her, filling the screen. It's an echo of Josh's view over Crystal in the opening of the episode, and also implies a very god-like or at least judge-like presence. It's the physical manifestation of what Fenner pointed out to Yvonne earlier in the episode: "No one is going to take your accusation seriously. Not now that soppy Stewart is gone." There's a new judge, and it's going to be far less likely that anyone's testimony is going to be believed. Helen and Nikki are lucky they got out when they did.

Odds and Sods

Two references to luck in this episode, first when Nikki laments to Helen that Fenner's luck "always holds out" and then later when the Julies give Nikki the horseshoe and tell her "If you can't be legal, be lucky. I can't quite figure out what the luck references mean--does anyone else have any ideas.

Nikki never knows, as far as I can tell, that Helen resigns to protect her appeal. This struck me as quite lovely, and also so very Helen, kind of like the mode she was in with the whole Caroline situation. She will take any action to protect Nikki, even if it means Nikki hating her, or losing her job.

Did you notice that Karen's acceptance of Fenner's marriage proposal is juxtaposed with Trish's hitting on Nikki, and that Helen interrupts them both--Karen sees Helen's dossier, and Helen physically enters the bar. I'm not sure there's anything to make of it, but I liked the idea of Helen interrupting inappropriate pairings, you know?

* That's a little reference to Nikki telling Barbara not to make any speeches when she's saying goodbye. Funny from someone like Nikki who'll always open her mouth.

Oh wow, abzug! Brilliant post (as always). Yes I hadn't really clicked that this episode was all about witnesses providing testimony (other than the obvious) or the relevance with Virginia until you pointed it out. There also were quite a few luck and miracle references I think in this episode. And yes, I had forgotten that there was more after the final Nikki & Helen scene! Hopefully I'll get a chance to watch it tonight and be able to say a bit more (if there's anything left to say).

Think there may be some references to Romeo and Juliet in this episode ... the writers coming full circle back to where they started maybe. Anyway some random ideas that occurred to me .........

• Their final balcony scene at Larkhall where they lock tearful eyes with each other.
• Helen drinking when she watches Nikki's speech could be analogous to Juliet taking the sleeping draught, the "distilled liquor".
• Dark nightclub = Juliet's tomb
• Nikki: “Hey! I didn't expect you to take a vow of celibacy!” may be a reference to Romeo’s (Nikki) previous love, Rosalinde (Trisha) who took a vow of celibacy thus breaking Romeo’s heart. And no, she didn't have a last name either.
• Nikki misunderstands Helen's availability (i.e. she thinks she's still with Thomas), just as Romeo misunderstands Juliet's (i.e. he thinks she's dead).
• Nikki with her bottle, wanting to “get blasted” after she thinks she has lost Helen could be analogous to Romeo taking the phial of poison after believing Juliet is dead.
• However unlike the R&J script, Romeo is persuaded to chase after Juliet and not to take the poison.

I also had the vague idea that there were some comparisons/contrasts with the very first episode (e.g. pregenancy, Nikki in the dock rather than down the block, fighting the 'old boys network' and so) .... or maybe not.

I'll try and think properly later (when I'm more awake).

A couple of key points which alsao stick out as well as Abzug's and Cassandra's fine posts. I love the theme of testimony and how it runs through the piece and, of course, how the evidence by Sally Anne Howe finally overthrows official credibility. There's a strong feeling that I get where the overthrow of Gossard's credibility serves as a kind of proxy for Fenner, the two men aren't that dissimilar and a feeling of , there but the grace of God went Helen, in being forced out of her job and mentally destroyed.

Nikki had approached the appeal in a pretty confident (not to say cocky frame of mind when her cell was being searched). The aftermath of Crystal's trial was of real significance as it was supposed to go well but didn't. Nikki's tearfulness in front of Helen wasn't just about her relationship with Helen but her real fear that her appeal wasn't going to be successful. When she went to the court the next day, she had pulled herself together with remarkable courage and fortitude, something that is easily overlooked. Her behaviour at the trial was a testimony to her self control during the exchanges and doing what was most difficult for her, to remain silent while others fought over her. This is the influence of Helen at it's strongest. The reading out of a fragment of her pre trial statement was a measure of how far she had travelled.

Her statement outside the court has to be read in the context of the reality of being free, that she could say precisely what she wanted to say, no hindrance, no authority figure to shut her up. Her modesty contrasts with Charlie Atkins's boastful self centred approach in the same situation. In that moment of liberation, what comes uppermost but her declaration of love to Helen which both Trisah and Helen register.

I still have the transmitted version of BG (not in good enough condition to copy, regrettably) and the songs are of significance and s
There were 3 clips of Helen and Nikki in the club and the songs were as follows.

1. Kylie Minogue “Spinning around” which seems to be a 'mood piece' of dizzy freedom.

2. Texas “When we are together” - the lyrics ‘Now life is making sense. I make mistakes at my expense” seem to be gently encouraging Helen to finally take her courage in her hands

3. Tom Jones “it’s not unusual.” the trail off words 'that I'm in love with you' are perhaps another signpost to Nikki.

Finally, I can't help but think of the triumphant musical spirit of David Bowie's Heroes and this chunk of lyrics which aren't a million miles away. Outside in the street, there are cars and people passing but for once in their lives, Helen and Nikki are oblivious to everything and can afford to be so, no Larkhall to but up barriers between them.

"I, I can remember
Standing, by the wall
And the guns, shot over our heads
And we kissed, as though nothing could fall
And the shame, was on the other side
And we can beat them, for ever and ever
Then we could be heroes, just for one day."

This is my contribution before I nip off to work.

I hadn't thought about connecting the luck references with the miracle ones, but I think you're right. The two miracle references I can think of are Crystal's pregnancy, and Virginia's cure, but there may be others you'd notice if you watch out for them tonight. They are really flip sides of the same coin--it's luck if you don't believe in God, and a miracle if you do, right? It's funny, though, because the luck is real, while the miracles are fiction.

I think you're right. In fact, I remember writing something up about this on another thread. Let me go look. OK, here it is, from the amazing "Eureka" thread, kind of similar to what you were getting at:
"It might be worth referencing Romeo and Juliet again, when looking at this final scene. Of course Helen and Nikki are sort of the flip side of Romeo and Juliet. Juliet has been "killed" while Nikki has been liberated (although, remember, Juliet's "death" is actually a means to her liberation and her chance to be with Romeo), but in the final scene Helen chases after Nikki just as Romeo chases after Juliet. And Helen misunderstands Nikki's availability (ie she thinks she's back with Trish), just as Romeo misunderstands Juliet's (ie he thinks she's dead). To put it another way: I think this is why Helen/Romeo goes to find Nikki/Juliet, thinks she isn't available and leaves/dies, and Nikki/Juliet wakes up and follows Helen/Romeo. In Nikki's case she follows Helen outside, in Juliet's case she stays in the tomb and follows Romeo to the grave.

So I'm thinking that the way they staged this final unification scene with Helen and Nikki is attempting to use some of the urgency of the conclusion of Romeo and Juliet, but with the happy, rather than the tragic ending. Sort of modeling it on the quintessential archetypal Romance, and the quintessential archetypal conclusion of that romance."

Excellent, excellent post, Abzug, thanks for all your efforts!

(mod note: By the way, if you want to link to a specific post, rather than just a thread, simply click the "posted" link at the top of the post you wanna link to.)


I brought up the idea of a "balcony" scene in the S3, con'd thread, now archived, in Jan 06.

Also, for those who have been following the ITV rebroadcast, am going to post a link later today in the music thread with the original toones. It'll be a fairly large download. :) --e

Could you maybe paste in whatever you posted over there? It would be interesting to read it again in the context of our current discussion.

Oh boy, I can't WAIT to hear the club scene with something other than the random pseudo techno music they have on the dvd.

PS Love the Baby Jodie photo.

What is ironical is how Fenner contributed considerably to Nikki and Helen getting back together over this episode and last

- telling Nikki that Helen was 'shagging the new SMO' which comment was relayed word for word by Nikki to Helen and aroused Helen's protective / loyalty instinct at the very least

- his threat to drag in Nikki's escape to scupper Nikki's appeal at the last minute which further reminded Helen what Nikki meant to her.

- telling Thomas that Helen had been 'shagging behind his back' and that this was the real reason for Helen's sudden decision to resign which caused Thomas to make sense of seeing a tearful Nikki with an emotional Helen and to tackle Helen at the restaurant and confront Helen with the reality of herself.

There are others I've overlooked. One long standing puzzle is just what was Fenner driving at in trying to get Di to slip the sharp into Nikki's clothing. I assume that it was some kind of offensive weapong but I have never got this one.

Of course, Trisha knew Nikki of old to realise the unreality of the two of them getting back together. It is interesting how the factors that were opposing their union suddenly went into reverse and the two of them were in the right place at the right time at the very end. This hooks up with the very well written theme of 'luck' (or more properly humanist concepts of what you work for) delivering the goods whereas religion based ideas of miracles.

I love the Romeo and Juilet theme and can't comment on it as I can't think of any way to add to it. It is brilliant and links to the traditional film ending of the 'decreasing circle' perspective of Nikki and Helen at the end.

I agree, that was a great post, Abzug. Thanks. :)

There’s one thing though that bugs me every time I watch this episode though. In the beginning, when Helen is about to walk past Fenner, he stops her and reminds her that she has to resign. She says she’s hardly going to do it over a prisoner’s jottings and planted clues, Fenner offers to go ask Barbara herself and when Helen says nothing, it props Fenner to say, “Unless you want her to lie for you.” This is followed by creepy music and Helen looking nervous. He then tells her to make up her mind or […] he’ll have both of them. So, Helen only resigns after Fenner lets her know he’s not only after Helen but after Nikki as well. However, prior to that moment, I think she was willing to make Barbara tell a set of umm.. white lies, no? But when Fenner lets her know that even if Barbara lies, it’ll all come out anyway (because Barbara isn’t much of a good liar, is she?), she resigns.

Later she tells Nikki she has principles and can’t make a prisoner lie for her, omitting the fact that it might’ve been in her plans. I guess you could say she does it for Nikki’s protection, because if Nikki got wind of Helen even for a second considering putting Barbara up to lying, she would do everything to make it happen – which could lead to trouble and jeopardize her appeal. Am I the only one thinking she’d go for making Barbara lie [if it wasn’t for Nikki]? I think she was ready to take the risk if it was solely her job at Larkhall in question; if Barbara lied properly and both of them were in the clear, it still would make the judge and the jury suspicious, I imagine, and Helen didn’t want any shadow of trouble on Nikki’s appeal.

You gotta admire Helen for doing this selfless act; being the career-driven person that she is, to leave a job she’d been willing to get is quite a feat.

What’s also interesting is that Thomas interrupts two highly significant scenes for Helen and Nikki. First of all, the no-wee-iffy-yeah one and then also the one when Helen tells Nikki she’s leaving Larkhall. [Remarkable to see Nikki wearing the same sweater and Thomas the same flaming jacket.] In the first scene, they were about to kiss and in the second one, they were at least going to hug. Of course he makes up for it in the end when he makes Helen open her eyes and stop kidding herself, but he was the one who intervened in their natural processes in the first place, if Helen and Nikki shared some contact after the good news about the appeal, Helen would've probably never even gone out for a drink with him (and had one on Nikki). The dashing doctor and his sexus interruptus, tsk.

Lot of good points there richard and Mad Maggot.

Fairly sure it was a scapel but I'll check later when I watch it. Presumably if Nikki had been caught with an offensive weapon on her (and Fenner would have made sure of that) then her appeal would have been compromised.

One question. When Helen tells Thomas that she cared for Nikki, is it "care" or "cared". I always hear the present tense when she says it (probably just me). It's as if she'e telling Thomas that she's chosen to be with him but cares for someone else.

From what I can manage to hear, she uses the present tense. I believe someone else (probably in some other thread on this board?) asked if it was care or cared, too. From a phonetic point of view, she says this phrase rather quickly, no consonants hindering the speech (unlike, “..you told me you were provoked by Fenner, I’ve reason to believe you now..” :D ), if it was “cared for”, she’d make a slight pause to adjust her lips to merging the sound “d” into “f” [edition: or rather to move her tongue from the back of the alveolar ridge].

It's definitely the past tense. The context is important, because she's trying to explain to Thomas that her thing with Nikki was over before she got together with him. I know this may be a bit upsetting to some, but what interests me about it is that Helen is denying being in denial. She says this in response to Thomas accusing her of denying her feelings for Nikki, and she says no, I don't deny I had feelings for Nikki. That's actually very cool, to me, because there's a sense in this stretch that Helen thinks she's straight, but really the only thing she's mistaken about is that she's over Nikki (because she's not), but she's not denying the importance of what they had, or the strength of her feelings.

I completely agree with your whole analysis here. I think Helen didn't want to do anything to risk Nikki's appeal, but she would have toughed it out if the whole situation wasn't affecting Nikki, even if that meant having Babs lie. I mean, she's got Yvonne threatening Virginia, right? But I don't think her "I can't ask a prisoner to lie for me" business when speaking to Nikki was a lie or a coverup so Nikki wouldn't know the real reason. I think once she realized what was at risk, she also realized that she didn't want to take the steps she'd have to take in order to continue to fight Fenner. She was reminded of how dangerous it would be to try to cover it up, how vulnerable Nikki would be, how vulnerable she would be, etc etc. So it's not a lie to Nikki, but instead an emphasis on one thing rather than another.

This IS interesting, especially given that later in the episode Helen's the one interrupting everyone else. In the end, the only case where the interruption was truly effective was when Helen interrupted Nikki and Trish. The others wound up being temporary intrusions only. Which is too bad--I would have liked to see Helen's file have more impact than it did.

Abzug's post poses a real question. I go for the present tense on the verbal text though I perfectly understand Abzug's reasonings.

My reading of Helen is that she uses the word 'care' in a sort of platonic sense, wanting all the best for her future while saying that her love for Nikki is history. It is Helen trying to walk the tightrope trying to stick up for Nikki and Thomas at the same time- a totally impossible job.

This is Helen being backed up against the wall perhaps in a sort of rerun of the 'Arts room' dialogue only it is Thomas putting the direct questions. I freely admit that the semantics are convoluted to say the least but it kind of makes sense in a backhanded way.

Naturally, Thomas scoffs at this and cuts through the crap, giving Helen the final push to sort out her feelings (after Fenner's handiwork)

The reasoning behind why she wouldn't want Babs to lie is something I entirely accept to which I add that Babs has kept quiet about Helen and nikki when Nikki broke out. that night has been right at the back of her mind all along filed in 'consigned to the deepest memory vault' file until Fenner drags this out. It would be an active lie added to a passive lie.

Thanks for clarifying the scalpel thing, Cassandra as this makes sense.

Thanks abzug. I'll try and listen to that sentence yet again tonight.

Sorry ekny. I was in a rush this morning (bit late for work). I should have said the balcony scene idea wasn't actually mine but was discussed on an earlier thread. I thought it might be applied to this episode as well.
http://z4.invisionfree.com/Nikki_and_Helen...dpost&p=1183608

(Interestingly I must have also (subconsciously I add) plagiarized abzug from the Eureka thread as well. I wrote a completely different sentence but used practically the same words!!! Sorry guys!!)

One thing about the care/cared debate: I actually heard the word cared, in the past tense, and plus it worked logically in the scene. I wasn't just going on the logical argument there.

No worries Cassandra--with these kinds of discussions I think everyone just winds up absorbing all the ideas, massaging them in their own heads, and coming up with new perspectives on them.

Yeah, I know. Me too. One would think that Shell’s statement that Fenner raped/abused her, as well as the inmates’ knowing and Helen’s suspicions of him having an affair with Rachel and his assault on Helen would mean something. The only and indirect impact it had was making Karen see what Fenner really is which is good but too late and not enough.

I forgot to mention that I love the good-bye scene between Nikki and Yvonne. Very true to their characters.

Yep, so how I see events unfolding. It's the Nikki card being played again in the continuing bluff and game of cat and mouse.
Additionally, right after Nikki and Helen say their tearful goodbye and Helen tells Thomas she has resigned..I heard her retort to him that he wouldn't like the reason why she resigned...is because the reason is to protect Nikki's appeal at all cost...There's been discussion about this before...that even if Helen can't get rid of Fenner, Nikki winning her appeal is a driving motivation for her, "just friends" or not. I read Helen's response to Thomas about him not liking why she resigned (the reason being not to jeopardize Nikki's appeal) is that he wouldn't think that was a good enough reason...that is the surface thought and motivation...Helen isn't even thinking about Thomas knowing that she was involved with Nikki, she's only thinking about being successful with one of her personal crusades....winning Nikki's freedom.

I didn't go back and review the scene. I have always "heard" and read the scene in past tense and always felt grateful that Helen was not denying the depth of her feelings for Nikki in the past, for how she would have characterized their relationship at one time, but not now (thank goodness she "wasnt' being honest" with herself and the feelings are actually very much present tense.) My reaction to this part of the Thomas/Helen conversation is like abzug's.

Oh that was so Fenner lookin to wind up Nikki one last time...and one last time to mess up her appeal...Nikki would have so been screwed if a weapon was found in her clothing...that guy Fenner never gives up, he is so consistent in his mode of operation...it would be another way of him "having the both" of them. Screw with Nikki's appeal = screw with Helen thereby making her resing AND screwing up Nikki's appeal...

Yeah, I've always heard 'care' and in the same context Richard is talking about. But I can see how it's debatable with her accent.

And I've read SHED's reasoning for the "To be continued" line at the end, but when I saw it initially, I figured they made that statement because it would be easy for the audience to assume that since the Nikki/Helen storyline was resolved, that the entire series was over. It's interesting to me that instead of the screen fading out on Nikki/Helen, they do that picture shrinking transition that lingers on them a bit longer through a peep hole. It's like we are all leaving them reluctantly.

I don't know if I agree about this. I think she's completely aware he wouldn't like the reason because that reason would also make him aware that (1) Helen had an affair with an inmate, (2) Helen broke the law by harboring an escaped inmate, and (last but not least) (3) Helen still cares enough about this inmate to give up her crusade against Fenner, something she was NOT willing to do for Thomas.

I love this part too. I was looking for some background on the use of the Iris. I found this one little bit from a film article which I can't get full access to without paying: "The iris fade-out evokes historical memory and cultural nostalgia." Oh wait, here's another:
"IRIS A transitional shot showing the gradual appearance through an expanding circular mask (iris-in) or the gradual disappearance of the image through a contracting mask (iris-out). Common in silent film, irises today usually evoke nostalgia for the period when they were in vogue. "
That's from: http://www.tagg.org/teaching/mmi/filmtrms.html#I
Anyway, I like this idea that Helen and Nikki are a romantic silent film couple, you know? Like, as epic and timeless as that.

Yeah, I'm not a very good writer....I apologize for that (and imagine my frustration). I only meant to imply Thomas response would only lead to some realization similar to you #3. Helen telling Thomas the reason or one of the reasons she was resigning was to make sure Nikki's appeal went through would not have necessarily reveal #1 or #2 at all. I was trying to emphasize that Helen "working her ass off" on an inmate's appeal might not have seemed like a good reason to resign if you didn't know the background....of course it would have really piqued Thomas' interest that's for sure...but I wasn't jumping that far ahead because after all, Helen held to her stuborness and wouldn't answer his question.

Also, when Fenner breaks the news to Thomas, he says that Helen and Nikki have been shagging each other for months. That means he implies they have been at it up until the day Helen resigned. So part of why he is so hostile to Helen is that he thinks she’s been cheating on him, which she hasn’t. Fenner inquired whether his little revelation struck a chord and it did, Helen was accusing Fenner of having sexual relationships with inmates (I’m retrieving this from my memory, so actually I only remember that she gave him the statement of assault, but I’m sure she mentioned Shell and Rachel.. I just can’t recall it at the moment) and now it turned out she did the same thing. However, he never actually presses this matter when they are at the restaurant, I mean he never asks her how she dared to have a relationship with a prisoner, the morality of this, etc. And he doesn’t let her finish when she says it was over before they started .. umm.. to spend time together (to call it dating would be quite a stretch). Now that I’ve typed and re-read this, I don’t know where I was going with this.. probably to point out that he was concerned with her being unfaithful other than concentrating on what that relationship really was.

All in all, I think what Helen really wanted/wants from Thomas is to be friends. It’s been discussed before that he’s her ally on this side of the bars and he’s pretty much another Dominic. A good guy with good intentions and feelings for Helen.

I wasn't sure about the order of the scenes so I looked in the recap. Helen has made her decision, said goodbye to Nikki, imforms Thomas of her resignation before Fenner winds up Thomas with the shagging news. It's the next day actually that he does this...the reason Helen gives for not telling Thomas more about why she resigned is:
Helen : Because I don't know how you'd react to the truth.
Dr Yes Yes : Try me.
Helen : I can't...not yet...but I've made the right decision, you're just gonna have to trust me.

If Helen did tell Thomas about the threat to Nikki's appeal, still doesn't mean he would have to know the details of her's and Nikki's relationship including the the night out...By saying "not yet" tells the audience Helen IS protecting Nikki's appeal process. After Nikki is freed then who knows what Helen had planned to tell Thomas?

Good point...Thomas isn't about rules, he's about feelings and emotions.

Interesting one this. Thomas said that he wasn't 'a quick fix' and that 'she'd had a relationship with a female prisoner and hence risked her career, something that she had strong feelings for' - in other words, he was reasoning to Helen just how much her relationship with Nikki had meant to her- a further inference as to why he couldn't trust her to be his 'straight partner' following on top of the way his ex wife had betrayed him. Thomas had also bought Fenner's exaggerated version of them having 'been shagging for months.' Thomas's reaction has followed the consistent thread running through BG that dramatic emotional moments always come intertwined with relations to the prison system- it's never just relationship based. His reaction was the flipside of Nikki's 'I've had relationships with straight women- they don't know the meaning of honesty (?)'

One last mention on the 'care / cared' debate- there has been this difference of opinion throughout debates over the years and Abzug's version has the advantage of being simple and elegant. At the end of the day, both versions are possible.

I'm sure these are all points that have been brought up before. This board has been at it so much longer analyzing the show...

I was struck by a few things...
Before I get to H/N, I am amazed at how sympathetic a character Yvonne is. I mean she is a gansters moll who lived a criminal life. Through her time in prison, she has been positioned as a person with great integrity in some ways. This show does have a way of turning things upside down like that.

Nikki's facial expressions when Helen was getting ready to leave after telling her she was resigning. Mandana did such an excellent job of showing emotions without a word. It seemed Nikki was asking Helen for that one last expression or kiss or something to show it was not completely over. Then again - at the window when Helen was leaving Larkhall for the last time. Such great acting.

Nikki showing such maturity and fortitude in the goodbyes by her fellow prisoners and in particular in the courtroom with Fenner constantly trying to wind her up.

Helen telling Thomas in the restaurant "but I'm with yuuuuuu." Trying to convince herself and Thomas she has moved on.

How much help it took for these star crossed lovers to finally get together at the end. Was it because of so much love they each had for each other that they were willing to lose it? It had to take all these outside elements to bring them together once and for all?

I thought the peephole ending with the "to be continued" reminded me of a fairytale...a way of saying...and they lived happily everafter.

Much thanks to all the brill posts I have read and continue to read. You are all so great at getting to the heart of the matter!

Hi, whole day got away from me, can we all kill Verizon together? huhhuhhuh can we pleeeeease?

I'll try to find it again... not too bright of me but I was in a major rush. :lol

Actually, yes: I think it's much better with the 'original' mix, but I'll wait to discuss it in the appropriate thread...!

:) :) :)


I'm pretty sure I asked about the care/cared thing a long while back.... It might have been in the DA thread.

I understand Richard's question to mean not: what were the mechanics/intentions behind Fenner's trying to get Nikki in trouble, but why on earth would he want to? If her appeal's successful, she's GONE. Gone gone gone. Isn't that... what he might want? He can't (#ck her. He can't really get to her emotionally if Helen's gone. So what's the point?


ETA: I've always liked the nice little pause/stumble Nikki does verbally around If you knew how much that... [means] meant.

I don't know--I mean, how would she have explained why Nikki's appeal was threatened and her resignation would solve the threat? The only way to explain this is to tell Thomas about the relationship and Nikki's escape. That's got to be why Helen refused to tell him anything, because to tell him even a small amount (I'm protecting an inmate's appeal) would have been impossible.

Why do you say his reaction was the flipside? In a way, it's almost like he's saying the same thing Nikki did, and with far more reason, when he tells her she's not even being honest with herself. It's this lack of self-awareness which is what triggers the kind of behavior Nikki laments in S2. It's inconstancy which can come from not truly knowing or accepting one's feelings, and that's exactly what Helen is doing with Thomas. It wasn't what she was doing with Dominic. What is kind of enjoyable about it (in a schadenfreude sort of way) is to see a man be victim to it, rather than a lesbian, because usually it goes the other way, and it's the lesbian who is abandoned by the straight woman, not the man.

I remember reading some interview or other which talked about these two being like charged particles who are just drawn together, and once there are no bars between them, there's nothing which could keep them apart. Personally, I'm of the belief that even if Fenner, Trish and Thomas (and Claire) hadn't all pitched in, these two would have been drawn to eachother within a day or two of Nikki's release. There's no way, living in the same city, they would have stayed separate. Nikki might have, respecting Helen's wishes, but Helen wouldn't have been able to stay away. Well, I guess I could argue that Helen might have used all her willpower to stay away from Nikki as a way of not hurting Nikki when she was in a relationship with Thomas.

But the positive spin on all this community involvement is that it emphasizes how important it is to have societal support for a relationship. Crystal's got Yvonne and the Julies egging her on with Josh, but Helen and Nikki had no one, and it's very very tough to sustain a relationship with no community support. I think this is one of the points the show is trying to make. Not that Helen and Nikki weren't capable of coming back together on their own, exactly, but something slightly different which I can't put into words at the moment and I have to run to a meeting now anyway.

Some great touching scenes in this episode. And great acting behind all the tears.

I was surprised how well Thomas seemed to be able to read Helen. She can't understand her own emotions and is constantly giving out mixed signals. Yet Thomas, who has only known her a short while, seems to have her sussed. He instantly knew she was lying when she told him why she'd quit. He recognised that there was "an internal wall" he was unable to break through. Are we supposed to assume that it is because he is a psychologist or because he feels a connection with Helen?

And for Helen's threat to drag Fenner down. It sounded like another bluff to me as she has no way of knowing if anyone will proceed with her sexual assault case or whether she will be believed.

Absolutely richard. I still hear "care" so I'm going to side with our resident linguistics expert. Sorry abzug. Though I totally agree with your logic as to why it should be "cared". The reason I asked the original question was that I wondered if the writers deliberately used the present tense to indicate a Freudian slip on the part of Helen. But I wasn't sure enough thats what she had actually said. Sounds like we'll never know!

Not quite sussed this idea out yet. Good point that all the miracles are fiction, even though they are supposed to be wonderful while luck can be either good or bad. There were a lot of references to miracles, prayers, saints, the Lord and God visiting Larkhall. As you said Fenner seemed to be on a right "Godlike" power trip (except when he asked Karen to marry him ... then he looked simply desperate). That guy definitely has the luck of the Devil. As for the luck side, I would take this to mean fate. Luckily our "star crossed lovers" were destined to a happy fate. Unlike poor Virginia's and Yvonne's fate.

We haven't mentioned the trial at all. Mainly because there was a great discussion a few weeks back on it. Thought I'd post the link in case anyone missed it (http://z4.invisionfree.com/Nikki_and_Helen...dpost&p=1649516)

And depressed Crystal back to almost hunger strike (again). Don't tell me the food imagery is back? Didn't get why chameleon Di apologised to Crystal.

Sorry, back to the mysterious signs again. "Any unruly behaviour will result in loss of privileges" in the corridor when Helen is telling Thomas she quit. But later on Thomas didn't care, he hit Fenner anyway (Yey!). As Fenner fell, the door behind him had two notices; "Keep locked shut" ... fair enough ...."Do Not Enter". (Reminds me of Pandora's box since there was all the stuff about Helen being Nikki's hope) A locked door that you can't enter just seemed a bit bizarre to me. [ETA - Actually its the same door that Fenner comes out of when he interrupts Helen & Thomas.] When Nikki storms away from Barbara, the notice outside the cell looks a bit like ".... required to speak to a listener". Ironic since everyone appears to giving testimony. And when Fenner asked Karen to marry him, there was some strange green illumination thing on the wall. What was that??

Not to put too blunt a point to it, but he bonked her. He has information we don't have. What we do know, however, without guessing at it, is that he's good at his job: we've been shown this. Finally, T is sensitized to evasions given his previous romantic disaster. So things are not making sense to him on some basic level. Which, put together, made sense to me.

I agree with you both, that it's not entirely decidable (!) unless we get a script. I do not hear care, only careD, which gave me quite the pang when first it wounded me ears. I certainly don't dispute mad maggot's linguistic expertise, however, Abzug's slight-of-hand is also persuasive--and comforting. :) Together they make that reading/(hearing) bearable.

I know the answer to this one! I just thought of it today, actually. Well, it's not the reason in Di's head, but the reason the writers included this moment. See, Crystal's rejection of Di's apology is what gets Di into guilt-mode, and that's why she stands up to Fenner rather than doing his dirty work with Nikki and the exacto knife. Crystal's stern judgment actually had an effect, unlike most of the other judgments in this episode.

Gee, is that what it was? And here I was thinking I was just explaining the very obvious meaning of the line. I do like the idea of the Freudian slip here, though, which wouldn't necessarily contradict my interpretation, it would just provide some literal evidence of what we already know is going on in Helen's head.

Thanks ekny & abzug,

Your one: http://z4.invisionfree.com/Nikki_and_Helen...ndpost&p=277271
Also here (blink & you miss it): http://z4.invisionfree.com/Nikki_and_Helen...owtopic=60&st=0
Both very, very brief. Anyway I'm not going to mention the subject again ....

Simple ... he's a vindictive b****d!

ETA - There does seem to be lot of interrupting going on in this episode. Josh interrupts Karen & Fenner, Fenner interrupts Helen & Thomas in the corridor and Mark interrupts Yvonne talking to Crystal. I take your point, abzug, that they are all temporary except for Helen interrupting Trisha & Nikki. Wonder what would have happened if Thomas hadn't interrupted Nikki & Helen ....

I love the fact that the final N & H scene is in broad daylight in the open air. No more dark enclosed spaces with people watching or likely to interrupt. It just underlines the fact that Nikki is completely free and that they can be together at last.

I thought Helen looked more devasted rather than nervous when she realised that Barbara would have to lie for her. I agree that the threat of Nikki's appeal was the main factor but I'm not entirely convinced that she would have got Barbara to lie for her. And 'bigamist' Barbara is a good liar as she lied to everyone, including not-so-gullible Nikki. She sounded so plausible about hiring the detective and such that no-one doubted her.

Sorry, it was meant to be complimentary; I've always found it difficult to get past my dismay in order to just analyze it, so for me, a sort of emotional shuffling is required to do so. I do think, although the meaning might be obvious, the mechanism, as you aptly showed, is complicated.

Hi all,
this is my first post here although I’ve been reading for quite a while. Usually I don’t have much to add to these great discussions: just nod to posts I agree with and get new perspectives here and there.


Quote(Mad Maggot)
[There’s one thing though that bugs me every time I watch this episode though. In the beginning, when Helen is about to walk past Fenner, he stops her and reminds her that she has to resign. She says she’s hardly going to do it over a prisoner’s jottings and planted clues, Fenner offers to go ask Barbara herself and when Helen says nothing, it props Fenner to say, “Unless you want her to lie for you.” This is followed by creepy music and Helen looking nervous. He then tells her to make up her mind or […] he’ll have both of them. So, Helen only resigns after Fenner lets her know he’s not only after Helen but after Nikki as well. However, prior to that moment, I think she was willing to make Barbara tell a set of umm.. white lies, no?]

I’ve always seen Helen’s reaction to “unless you want her to lie for you” as close to surrender. As you say, there’s this music and, to me, Helen doesn’t look just nervous – she’s terrified! Her eyes are wide open, pupils-dilated – like she can’t do this! Of course, the mention of Nikki is the last straw, but I’ve always felt that she was about to give up even without him threatening Nikki. Which I’ve always found unsatisfying: I want her decision to be all about Nikki this time, not about her moral principles. Sadly, it makes it less powerful for me.

As for care/cared, I hear “care”, but reading the board has convinced me that it should be “cared”.

You’re right. I guess I just worded it not the way I wanted to, I was trying to point out that Barbara’s lies later become obvious and as we remember, she had the whole wing against her and only with the help of money and a charitable contribution she won them back, this always seemed to me insincere, btw, I felt like she did it to buy their love. So, Helen doesn’t have the same privileges, if she (she+Barbara or she+Nikki+Barbara) lies and it all later comes out, there’s no way she’ll be able to buy herself out like that. (Because if needed, Fenner could always dig out that “nurse Ford” who signed out the night he was stabbed, there are actually those tapes of Nikki and the nurse leaving her cell that looked so terrifying back in S2Ep13, etc.)

Hi voila! Welcome and congratulations on your first post. :)

Both you and Cassandra used different adjectives to describe Helen’s expression (devastated and terrified) and I agree with both of them. I hesitated with the choice of words for that one, at first I wanted to say she looks agitated or is fidgeting, but chose to go with nervous, your attributes describe her much better. That said, Nikki is obviously the main reason for her decision and it seems to be the ultimate selfless act to me, as for whether she was ready to pull out, I don’t know.. I thought she was ready to pull out when she stormed out of her office when Fenner first confronted her about the diary, the ticket and the coat (duh), but when she met Fenner in the corridor, she seemed to be pretty confident and sure of herself – as in ready to fight him till the end. I think she was also shocked that Fenner guessed she was going to try to make Barbara lie. For somebody like her who doesn’t lie on a regular basis it is indeed a shock that somebody could figure it out like that (I guess).

Hi, wonderful discussions here.

True, but since I like to try and find rational motivations for character's actions I've always reasoned that Fenner's intention was to keep Nikki in Larkhall and under his charge as a way to control Helen. If I recall correctly, the last thing Helen does before leaving is threatening to take him down with her, because now, without the job, she's got nothing to lose. But she has: Nikki. And Fenner may see her as the leverage to use in case Helen tries to pin something on him (the sexual attack, the dealings with Virginia, etc.) He's shown before he can act with a lot of impunity inside the prison walls, so if Helen tries anything, maybe Nikki can suffer a little "accident". But with Nikki gone, he's got nothing.

Yes, I agree: there's no rational reason I can think of for Fenner hassling Nikki, and there's no irrational reason either. We know he's a bastard. It doesn't further the plot or his own interests to try to set her up. If he's getting rid of Helen, it doesn't provide him with leverage there, either. So I still can find no way to make it make sense. Everyone has things they shrug off; this has always been one, for me.

Part of what Fenner has been doing is to blackmail Helen into resigning rather than vice versa and using the threat to Nikki's appeal as extra leverage. Otherwise, he has been exerting general harrassment on Thomas, Helen and Nikki in turn just to stir things in general. Ironically, a part of what he actually ended up doing was pushing Helen and Nikki together and driving Thomas and Helen apart which isn't what he intended. It is interesting that Fenner was totally ignorant of the whole 'Chix club scene' and after and Helen's reaction to Nikki's speech which is a form of revenge against Fenner.

The point was made about Yvonne's farewell to Nikki- you got the feeling that she knew she was losing a powerful ally but was incredibly generous in wishing her well for her appeal.

An excellent piece of Mandana's acting is the reaction to the 'I want a woman line' There was a whole range of visual emotions from total shock sliding into joy and Nikki's "We'll take things slowly" was her at her most endearing in not rushing Helen though the response put a different spin on that.

Oooh, brilliant! This makes complete and total sense. I had always thought of it in vaguer terms (he gets off on abusing people, particularly those who are strong, and so he'd want to continue to disempower Nikki for as long as possible), but your explanation is about 1000x better.

Hi, Why doesn't Helen tell Fenner to go jump in the lake when he tries to blackmail her into resigning, I mean she was still the Governing Governor and he was just a Principal Officer as such she had the power to warn/order him to stay away from Nikki and Barbara, or else she was would tell Karen about his visit to the knocking shop and also threaten to tip off the area management about his nocturnal visitations to pick up the dosh. And being the poltroon that he is it would've worked. Does anyone agree with my reasoning?

ETA: Also like to add my thoughts regarding Helen playing detective. :rolleyes: For somebody like Helen who is so ultra straight to borrow Richard's phrase, even to drive thru that neighborhood let alone spend half the night in the car to get damaging evidence against Fenner is just too far-fetched for woods. :eek

sorry for being a bit slow, but what's so incredibly painful about it if helen said "care" instead of "cared?" :huh:

It's the other way around--people find it painful to think that Helen said "careD" rather than "care" because it would imply she didn't care about Nikki anymore. But (to bring in my sleight-of-hand) the context is important, because Thomas thinks she's been having a continuous affair with Nikki, and she's trying to convince him it ended ages ago. At which point he accuses her of being in denial about her feelings for Nikki. And then she's like, hold on a second here mister, I'm not denying anything, I cared about Nikki, but I'm with you now.

Yes: thus the pang, the past-tense-ness of it. Perfect, by far the clearest statement on the matter made yet.

ETA: I mis-wrote the original (hurrying, sorry) so they've been edited to repair them. Sorry. Should be: I heard cared, not care.