Ok first off hello wonderful readers and writers of Nikki and Helen Fan Fic

I’ve read stories around here for almost a year now and I have enjoyed almost all, however I am sometimes very disappointed when I'm left stranded as a reader, for months at times, waiting for an update of course. I know and many if not all of our readers here also know that life is unpredictable.

There are so many great unfinished fic’s around these parts that am regretful that the writers have abandon them, writing takes patience and I commend anyone willing to have such patience and dedication to write.
However I don’t find that to many of the writers are genuine, that meaning that I’ve read the numerous stories that are the hot topic of the last month or two and I’ve not seen too many of those writers supporting each others fic, of course it’s by choice to leave a comment.

I would however thought that this board is such a place where support would be given more generous and not a partisan show of over zealous supporters only supporting picked writers it’s not a competition, its an art so CAN WE BE A BIT MORE SUPPORTIVE TO ALL THE WONDERFUL WRITERS support them fairly if you may.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read.

Again this is just an opinion as I am no one of importance but without continued support to each and every writer that takes the time to write we won’t have a reason to visit the board would we? Keep up the great writing Fic writers.

Cheers
:eek

I support whatever I read. Currently I'm only following about three stories, but that's because I have a busy schedule and can't possibly read everything. It would be cool if more people left feedback for the writers here period. I think feedback in general is splendiforific :) (not an actual word, I know.) but it only works the way you're suggesting if everyone gets involved.

Right now it seems that there's a small group of us that are active feedbackers, and I suspect that there are many readers who come and enjoy the stories here but either aren't registered or chose not to leave feedback and that's cool too, but it's kinda unfair for one person to come in and say that the people who are putting in the effort to leave feedback are not doing so appropriately. In a perfect world I would love to read everything (and I probably will get around to reading everything eventually) but right now I just don't have the time. :err

Perhaps you would like to join in and leave a bit of encouragement for the writers of the stories you're following (you said you were an avid reader of the stories here, no?)? :huh:

Thank you for the feedback Emms but unfortunately I'm not the one ineed of any feedback and had you taken the time you would have seen that I did leave encouragemet for the writers .

This thread broaches a topic that is a timely one.
First off, I have found that it works out better to write out the fic completely as a 'word' document and also to set out a 'list of parts/ chapters, etc' as a way of keeping continuity. The second suggestion is made after contributing to past debates on 'Shed's continuity glitches' in the original TV version (being super critical of the coffee jugs spilt by Shell all over Rachel Hicks and the full jugs appearing next shot) and looking at your own fic (or it being pointed out to you that you've done exactly the same in print. :D

The other way is to write and post 'on inspiration' and keep 'all the balls in the air' which is fine if you can keep up the inspiration. This is dependent on having the spare time, dedication and, most of all, that some life shaking event doesn't take place which puts everything else on the back burner or suddenly getting stuck in the plot or whatever.
It all depends on the length of the fic and its complexity. I have had experience working both ways.

As a writer, I thoroughly appreciate the work done by the active 'feedbackers' like Emms and I very much take the point that there are only so many hours in a day for 'ordinary life (including holding down a job)' going on the MB and just how many fics you follow. I don't think the issue of partizanship enters the picture at all or shouldn't do.

I thoroughly take the point about writers supporting other writers, the absence of could partly comes down to time and partly down to working in isolation. A roundabout way of working round this that the internet offers is jointly written fics i.e. each writer taking alternate chapters which could cause disagreements but on the other hand can maximise the positive and 'bookend' writing styles harmoniously. My experience of this has been very positive.

Also one should keep in mind that some people give feedback privately in a PM or email.

Wonderful Feedback Great to see You've woken up Thank You for responding and being such good sports.

AND KEEP SUPPORTING ALL THE WONDERFUL WRITERS ON THE BOARD FULL SUPPORT IS A GOOD THING.

Now I'll crawl back under my rock for a bit Cheers
:clap :swords

Hey guys...I too feel badly when an interesting fic is left unfinished....

If real life intrudes...or imagination flags...Perhaps writers need a way to back out gracefully.

A formulaic wrap up...".And they all lived happily ever blah blah blah."

Anything but an arid... pitiless.... vacuum.

Hey Richard....I've tried both and working without a net is way more fun. Continuity?Nope...names change...but everyone too polite to comment.Cool

Errors...? I find them endearing.....grammer? spelling? punctuation? in a phone text world...no big deal...let 'er rip....If I can sound it out and it's not boring....bonus.....Cheers and celebrate diversity bad girls n' guys

I understand where you're coming from and i agree with you - people SHOULD leave fdbk more, even if its just to say "thanks for updating" or "that was good" or even just a smiley face - just something to let the writer know that someone is reading, and appreciating what theyve written and stuff... but I can see this from a reading and writing perspective. I know i havent written many fics and they arent of the sort of high caliber of CBG and stuntdouble and mandanasa and coolbyrne and ginny... i dont pretend that they are.

but i know that in the past ive had 'real life' take over and things that arent maybe emergencies but serious personal, or financial situations have come up, and you forget about this board, you forget about checking your email, about myspace and msn and the book you were enjoying before, and any other hobbies and stuff, because something's happened that you need to sort out, that fills up your brain and doesn't let you think about anything else. For example ive not had money for rent and been working 23 hours a day before now during a story i was posting on here, i've moved house and lost my internet connection for periods of time, ive been seriously ill, my partner was diagnosed with cancer.... and i had less time and will to write happy stories for a while and even tho i came and checked the mb for updates fromt ime to time, i couldnt bring myself to write any more of my own story on here because i didnt have the time and i didnt feel in the right frame of mind (write frame of mind?) for it. maybe not every writer chooses to share this kind of stuff with the board, and just disappears for a bit. i've done both, i know what it's like. it doesn't mean you care any less about the stories or the ppl here... but at the end of the day, what you have to do, you have to do, and what you can't do, you can't do.

What i'm trying to say is that i think it would be nice to allow writers a bit more lee way when it comes to updates - my first few fics, i was known as someone who updated really quick, really regularly, but that took a lot of effort, writing and rewriting the fics, then getting my awesome beta to look over them, and then posting them here... and while writers should agree to undertake that effort by posting a story, sometimes it isn't always possible.

Emergencies aside, sometimes you just get writers block. Sometimes you get excited and start posting a story you havent finished, that you want fdbk on, but then you get stuck and get writers block, or you write yourself into a corner like painting yourself into a corner, and can't get out again, and you have to think about it and you get stuck sometimes. Sometimes you don't feel in the right mood to write about love or anger or hurt or joy...

i know i'm not in a position to talk because i am guilty of posting fdbk to stories saying 'pls update soon' because im enjoying it, but i try not to be too forceful or demanding about it because i know what its like to have people demanding you update and being basically mean to you because you take too long... when in fact we, the readers, should be thanking the writer for sharing the story with us at all. it takes guts and effort to do, and we should all be more appreciative, as fanficcrazy says. i know a lot of people leave private fdbk, by board message or email or IM... because i have sent and recieved such fdbk before myself. that's cool and some people might not want to post on the board in public.

Also i suspect that fanficcrazy has created a new alias to use to make this post, and is a regular member under a different name who does post encouraging fdbk, so leave them alone :)

This conversation is getting interesting. Terri brought up a lot of good points about writing and reasons why it's hard sometimes to finish a story. Personally, writer's block is the big one for me...

Has anyone else experienced anything similar? :)

I can't write at all, but i do read and appreciate all the fanfic. i try to leave fdbk on every story i read. When stories are unfinished i wonder what happened but i know that real life does throw curves for the authors . I really hear what you are saying terri .So i am grateful for any fanfic at all z

No terriw1979 am not under an alias I was hiding in the closet for many months ,but at somepoint in time you have to come out eh, (smiles) not that closet been out that for ages.

well I must say am estatic to see where this is going.

And am not bothering the writers its the readers mainly that don't support and maybe I was quilty of being one of the many guest readers that pop in from time to time ,however many of the regestired reader's and writer's are very much guilty of not supporting there fellow writers and you know who you are, the one's that read the various stories and don't leave that encouraging smile or words of appreciation it doesn't hurt to be supportive.

As for the many greats around like CBG, mandana sa and coolbyrne and ginny they support other writers work I'll add richard in there.They have and still continue to encourage.

stuntdouble is new unless thats an alias as you so assumed I would be.

So I would say again Support the writers make them feel appreciated it doesn't take much to do so eh.


Now Cheers and have a drink on me :D :swords

What an interesting thread!

Well, first off, I am new to the board. It would be a fun conspiracy if I was some sort of long-time poster assuming a pseudonym, but alas, I am not as awesome as Charlotte Bronte.

The fic I am writing here now is my first shot at any sort of fan fiction, but I have been writing non-fiction for years. I have a moderately well-traveled blog, and I have written for a few magazines. And I can easily say that I have received more encouragement and feedback from the posters on this board than almost anywhere else I have written.

When people post to say, "Please update!" I don't take offense to that at all. It often encourages me because it lets me know that people are interested.

And the feedback (both in the forums and on PM) has been stellar. I have been humbled by the wonderful things people have said to me. (I'm looking at you: Emms, Cassandra, Zena, Tudy, TerriW, Lahbib Lover... ) I mean, seriously, I have been overwhelmed with the affection of these posters.

The frequency of updates is a pretty complex issue. I have been trying to update my story twice a week, but this week that just hasn't happened. I have rewritten the chapter I am working on now about four times and it just doesn't feel right to me. I was torn between posting something - anything - just to let people know I was still committed to the story, and waiting until I'd captured the authentic voice of the characters.

I posted to let everyone know that I was wrestling with this chapter, and the response I got again amazed me again. Authenticity over speed, they said.

Anyway, I am just really thankful to have found such a supportive community. It has definitely changed the way I write. (In a good way.)

OOOOh stuntdouble , I'm weak in the knees from the shout out. I have no choice but to encourage you to keep on writing because I really love reading good fanfic. I get a little over wrought when I don't get my daily dose of fanfic. I do have to remember that you have other things in your life besides fanfic writing, so I try to remember to have patience while waiting for the next updates.

I used to not give feedback because I was to bloody paranoid about what to say but after a couple of pm's from music video people, I realized that if it were me writing or making videos I would really appreciate somebody acknowledging the fact that I existed and gave some pleasurable moments to others. I don't do it with every story I read but some just really touch me and are so good that I can't ignore them.

This is a holla to all fanfic writers that I really do appreciate your writing and time and energy. It takes a lot of nerve to put yourself out there. Thanks a bunch, you're bloody wonderful, yeah? :hug2 :kiss1

cheers,

Brenda

Well I think I’ll take the opportunity to add my piece also, not one for center stage but some interesting facts have been raised and since I’ve joined the rank of Fan Fiction writer some of the facts do pertain to me.

Where do I start ok yes I’ve written before, I write daily, I write lot’s of prescriptions tons of discharge notes to the numerous patients that are discharge from my care daily weekly, monthly etc and I’ve written a full page of love and devotion, my committed vow to my partner of a decade on our commitment ceremony four yrs ago now I couldn’t write anything more special than that. Laughing out loud, is that enough writing to be in the writers club?

Now I think that ranks amongst the best of the best writers I would say laugh if you wish I found this bit funny, hope you do too.

Six Degrees Of Separation is my first Fan Fiction ever and had been in the works since early summer upon joining the two most popular Fan Fiction boards for Nikki and Helen.
I finished 24 chapters wasn’t sure what to do wondering was it good enough for any of the boards. I was quite timid I was worried how it would be read, had thoughts of canning the whole Fic until I sent it to a great friend of mines <mandana sa> Thank you manni. She said no way find a beta and post. I took her advice and found my beta well I found two, one was a bit busy and the other has been a gem.

Even though I’ve written all those chapters you still find yourself trying to improve each chapter and your're delayed with putting them out as fast as you wish, as a good friend and supporter of my Fic said there's no reason to limit ambitions in Fan Fiction. Thank you Richard.

Support well am new so am quiet sure that played a factor in the beginning, but I've had some wonderful feedback so far, I would love to see more support from other writers also, who’s work I know I’ve supported in the short months that I’ve been a member, as it give's you an idea as how your Fic measures up, but am not here to force anyone to do such, but the support does make your effort feel counted and I'm definitely going to finish this Fic and hopefully follow up with another part.

With that said I welcome your feedback I don’t expect every chapter to be riveting but give a feedback make me feel warranted.
Thank you to the readers and writers that has supported my Fic so far I feel honoured.

Richard, bgfanatic, mandana sa, Emms, Zena, Cassandra, Sashindu, Bettela, Sexy Simone, Lahbiblover, Lizi and fanficcrazy who has started or rather open an age old topic as Richard mention.

And the many guest readers, try registering there's no free popcorn if you don't. :o

I just wanted to mention one more thing. (Or two.)

First off, HopelessRomantic, I typed your name in my head last night when I was listing out people who had been awesomely supportive, but my fingers forgot. I'm sorry. :)

Secondly, now that I know how uplifting it is to receive feedback, I will definitely leave it for other stories I read. But right now I can't read any other stories because I am afraid the characters' voices will get all jumbled up in my head. My imagination is fragile; I'd hate for fan fiction to push me over the thin line to crazy.

I know what that feels like! I'm glad it's not just me that has that problem!! sometimes when i go back and watch BG dvds or see video clips after ages, its good to bring you back in touch with things

Bwahahaha :rofl :rofl

Firstly, I would like to say I have only just read this thread from the begining.

As a writter and a fan fic reader, I can both appreciate the comments left on my stories...and i can also understand when they are not left...as I am guilty of doing this myself :err This I find mainly due to the fact I currently post my stories on four boards and often am to busy to actually stop and type anything...but maybe I should take the time to do it. As I know I appreciate every comment I receive.

As on one board I actually post on, I receive next to no comments and this has put me off posting there...the only reason I still post there is my g/f posts her Loving Annabelle stories there also...and from the count of hits on my stories I still know they are being read there as well as here.

Sometimes, readers do not comment like on this other board because they have taken offence at something you (the writter) has said in another thread...or something that is happening in your personal life...which has happened to me on this other board...there can be many reasons why people do not comment about a story update. Some reader wish to be lurkers only...and not comment on the board, but send emails and PM's...and I have received several of these.

As far as story updates and how quickly they are written...yes, my life and my family take priority over my stories. I have three young children under the age of eight. And in the last year I have travelled over 1600km twice due to the illness and death of a close family member...which was a very hard time for me emotionally. As a child and teenager I wrote everyday...but after the death of my father when I was 21 I stoped writting for over 10 years...I couldnt put pen to paper...So when I had this death again this year it slowed my writting down. I havnt stoped writting all together...but yes I have slowed down.

Sometimes also as a writter we can have a million story ideas floating around in our head and we start writting too many stories at once...I currently have three on the go...and I know I have several story ideas jotted down that are begging for me to write them...LOL...I can here them calling out to me to be written.

Also sometimes, it isnt just the writter, for those who use a beta reader...sometimes its them... :innocent ... :wub: ....(yes im sucking up to one of my beta reader, cos i bet you she reads this)...they also have a life and sometimes cannot get around to beta reading our updates as fast as we, the writter or our readers would like.

But I promise you I read all comments left for me, and i appreciate every single one off them...if they are posted or sent in a PM they are all appreciated...and received with a humble heart as I dont think my writting is that good as I do it only for my enjoyment.

LOL yes I did change my name Tudy...only cos every other site I posted on I was known as Aussiebadgirl except on this site. If nobody noticed bar Tudy, thats good (means people were looking at my stories not at my name)...I was posting under the name BGEp1,2&3 before my name change.

The whole debate has been highly interesting in seeing the perspective of other writers and of the very kind hearted readers who give active feedback. From my position, it is especially gratifying that particular effects I've aimed at are picked up on.

I fully appreciate the problems of fanfic writers coming up against life's trials and tribulations and, just normal life. For instance, I admire the dedication of auzziebadgirl being the mother of three young children and writing fanfic. That is a challenge and a half.

Just to relate my experience, I wrote a novel years ago and half a one a bit later but hadn't done anything creative for years until I bounced an idea off a woman writer on another BG message board and gradually found my wings from cowriting that fic. I'm happiest with writing where there is a central driving idea at the back of the fic and expand outwards from that. Taking part in debates on Bad Girls gives in the grounding in 'knowing the characters.' Aside from cowriting fanfics, I have tended not to look at other writer's fics but betaing hopelessromantic's fic has been a very interesting experience in seeing how another writer approaches a fic and, yes, I've been glad to help out.

this is my main issue - i take a break because of something that comes up in my life (like my recent layoff) and suddenly ... writer's block - and it just takes a while for me to get back into writing again.

I do always appreciate feedback though ... it lets me know someone is reading! i, however, understand when feedback isn't left because i'm not always so great about it ...
:wub:

Well first off I deeply commend you ALL, I would have never thought to have such feedback FROM PRACTICALLY begging for support for the many generous writers.

This is really great good things have come forward from my few pleading words.But I'm far from finish if you have time to read then you have time to leave encouragement even a smile would do it's the thought that counts.

Aussiebadgirl and Molsongrrrl keep the faith things do get better not when you wish for it too, but it get's better.

Keep up with the Encouragement of the writers good people it's not to hard to do.


Happy Weekend ALL :getingroove

Sorry stunt girl....Crazy was passed long ago...Post series three the madness took over...Welcome to Bedlam...My only answer to the dreaded...Was that an original thought or an echo ???Try to get so far out there that the snow is virgin...Even so still crossing tracks...Nuts....It's busy out here...

CBG...I think... estimated 1 comment for each hundred hits....and that does seem to be the rule....99 say naught...It seems to be bred in the bone...This thread is blowing the curve...and needless to say the best hear more than most...Cheers to all who share their creativity and to all who comment on same.

of course, it's worth remembering that the hits dont really accurately reflect how many people are reading... often people come back and check for updates lots of times before there actually is an update, clocking up hits.. and i know i reread good stories sometimes on the boards.

Hello again I've crawled out from under my rock. What can I say I've got to feed my fic addiction.

I'm happy to see many ongoing fics that's been due for an update up on the hot topic list again great job bc gal , sexysimone I understand the pressures of trying to fit everything in to your busy schedule's. I thank you for the great updates.

The writers: richard, stuntdouble, hopelessromantic, tudy ~aussiebadgirl and the group effort ~,sexysimone and (Emms it's nice to have something from you to read thank you ).

Thank you ALL as you continue to put out chapter, after chapter in the last month or two, I really praise your continued dedication to ALL the readers.


BUT MY BROKEN RECORD PLAYS ON AM AFRAID, THERE ARE STILL MANY

REGISTERED READERS AND AM AFRAID WRITERS TOO THAT CONTINUE TO

READ AND NOT SUPPORT EVERY WRITER THAT TAKES THE TIME TO KEEP THE

MB GOING. BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING.


~~~~~~PLEASE SUPPORT ALL THE WRITERS IT'S FREE TO DO SO~~~~~~


Cheers

:fanfic

I just wanted to say thank you to all the writers I know that a lot of us don't show the support that we need to, this site is one of the best site's out there. I know that all the writers have life's and it blow my mind that they find the time for their story's. SO PLEASE KEEP UP THE HARD WORK AND KNOW THAT WE ARE GRATEFUL FOR ALL YOUR WORK. :D

Sorry...posted in the wrong thread.

*cough* um...yes. I have absolutely nothing constructive to add to the convo. :D

haha. We've all done it :)

IT’S NOT A COMPETITION ITS AN ART SUPPORT IT.

SUPPORT THEM ALL.


There’s no consolation prize at the end. So FIRST PLACE isn’t necessary.



THANK YOU AGAIN WRITERS FOR YOUR CONTINUED DEDICATION TO THE READERS AND POSTING CHAPTER AFTER CHAPTER.




Cheers

I have edited this post to remove inflammatory comments. They did not appear to add to the intent of the thread

I have visited this site many times and find it to be a pleasant experience with many good people. Why are you creating a hostile environment?

SO WHAT if someone doesn't finish their story. I appreciate the hour or so they helped me escape reality.

I HAVE commented to authors but I prefer to do it privately. Leave the board alone - it's fine the way it is.

Now you can PM me if you wish to be more explicit won't change my rant SUPPPORT THE WRITERS

Who's arse kissing? I must be reading the wrong thread. I didn't understand a word you said fanficCrazy.

I have edited the last few posts on this thread and I'm pretty sure the other moderators will agree that that is something we'd prefer not to have to do. Points can be made and issues debated without personal comments directed at other posters or derogatory remarks made about people whose opinions may differ. Just a gentle reminder that this is a positive, encouraging place for writers and readers alike... and even for people who CHOOSE to do neither.

I'd certainly back up CBG's very timely post which expresses the views of all moderators- this post is written in the dual capacity as moderator and poster, certainly with the determination that this thread remains amicable one way or another.

The point has been adequately made in giving support to fanfic writers and needs no repeating. It is worthwhile repeating the point that some posters show support by sending writers PMs which the writer will know and appreciate without the rest of the board being aware of it which I for one, have had the immense good fortune to receive.

I can see that this thread at its best has been an interesting exploration of the differing points of view of fanfic writers, fanfic feedbackers, those who do both and those who just read. People give what they give out of what committment they feel they can give and how measurable is 'not enough' etc without knowledge of the private life outside the board. I certainly sympathise with and understand those writers whose circumstances cause fics to stop.

On a positive note, what I find a pretty reliable guide to writing dialogue is when you can 'hear in your own mind' the character saying the words you are putting in the character's mouth and if you can visualise the scene, you are right on the beam and riding it. I picked this up from another writer on another board whom I have written fanfic with. I was wondering if other writers have had that experience?

I do know what you're talking about (from writing non-fic essays or whachamacallits, pieces, for this board, oddly enough), but I think it takes a good ear, & you have to be honest with yourself about whether something you like, you're attached to, is really working or not. Like, maybe you can 'hear' Helen saying "aye" in your mind's ear. As it happens, I can't. And she never does. (Sorry, pet peeve.) It doesn't mean it's impossible to write a good fanfic where a version of Helen as-interpreted-by-the-author does indeed say Aye & it is indeed credible. But you'd have to earn it. (I haven't read a fanfic through here in months, so this is not an example 'about' anyone's specific story.)

Anyhoo, that whole process is made a even harder in fanfic (for this show in particular, I'd imagine) by the fact that a lot of the people writing it are... Americans. <shockhorror, I know> And BrE really is a different language. ;) So one would have to work extra-hard at it, I'm thinkin. Like trying to learn any foreign language--and then using it creatively. Really challenging!

Otoh, we might be lucky in a weird way. I've been lurking on a Willow-Tara board for the last week or so, reading very, very different fanfics than the ones here (I ran into someone who made recommends, you know how it goes... my heart, however, never strays. Hee.) Those characters might not have had a lot of screen-time as a couple, but Willow is a major player throughout the show, so people *do* know how she talks. The problem is, it's also easy to parody it, or to use lots of cute Signature Lines from the show & think it passes as dialogue. It's a really tricky line to walk, I'm learning--especially without being cutesy (a bit of a hazard with Willow/Tara) or too... damn, I just learned a new expression. Mary-sue? Susie-Q, Martha My Dear, Honey Pie... damn! Well. Which is (this expression) one of the hazards with N/H fics.

Er. Thanks for bringing up such an interesting observation, Richard. And letting non-ff people participate. Cool. <skuff> Maybe there should be a place for some kinda ongoing fanfic conversation about ff? Maybe see how this goes.

I know exactly what u mean! I have struggled with the same idea... maybe cos i live in scotland and know helen's (simone's) accent it pees me off too when people say helen's from glasgow. but these are little things - lots of times, someone has written a fic where one of the characters says or does something you would never have imagined, and it works.

Oh totally! I only have a few things (internally) that are deal breakers. No, I think the reason people keep reading is to find those little surprising or pleasing moments maybe, that do click or make perfect sense (hopefully within a story that works as a piece, too!) :)

You guys are making some really good points about dialogue.

I am one of those ridiculous Americans trying to write with a limited knowledge of BrE. What I'm working with is my unabashed love of British literature, the few trips I've made to the UK, and the handful of British television shows and movies I watch over and over. I know I get loads of stuff wrong.

I am posting my first ever piece of fiction on this board right now, and the whole process makes me a bundle of nerves. I love these characters; I want to represent them well. I would love to write Nikki and Helen in a way that would make a reader go, "Yeah, that is absolutely something Nikki would say."

It's a tricky balance between the characters' voices on the show, and the characters' voices in a writer's head. Richard, you made a great point about hearing the characters in your own mind. And Ekny you are absolutely right that writers have to ask if the attachment to the voice is true to character.

Writing dialogue leaves me feeling particularly vulnerable. I want so badly for it to be authentic.

Peter Selgin says, "When parts of your own soul speak through your characters, the result is good dialogue."

I kind of thought it was hooey until I started the story I am posting now. Much of what I have written has just poured right out of my soul onto the page. And I try really hard to measure it against what I know about Helen and Nikki. Would she say that? Why? What is her motivation? She would never have said that on the show, but would she say that now, three years later?

I had a seriously tough time with something I had Helen say in a chapter I wrote recently. I took it out, and put it in, and took it out, and put it in. It wasn't like anything Helen would have said on the show. But the dynamic of Helen and Nikki's relationship has deepened so much in the world I created, and I knew, I just knew in my heart, that Helen demanded to say it.

I had no idea, when I started writing, how emotionally unguarded I was going to feel when I posted here. I am still scared every time I post. I am just unbelievably thankful that everyone has been so merciful with me.

With any luck, the stuff I get right will outweigh the tons of stuff I botch up.

(And Richard, I think you write a really nice dialogue.)

I think dialogue is the hardest part to get right in a story As a reader it is usually what makes or breaks a story for me. The plot might be well done and interesting, I might find the story otherwise engaging, but if the characters don't sound to me like Nikki and Helen sound in my own head, then I usually can't get past it. And it is of course, completely subjective. What rings true for some readers will not for others. I write well professionally so I took a couple of abortive stabs at fanfaction and never finished or posted any of the stories because I could never get the dialogue right. I could never make Nikki and Helen sound the way I think they should. I had some stories with plots I felt were interesting and that others would enjoy, but I could never make the dialogue work. So as both a reader and a failed writer, dialogue for me is key.

And a general thanks to all the wondeful writers who continue to find time to write and post these stories to feed the beast of readers like me.

Thank you Richard and Ellen first for rescuing this thread and for the other thoughtful replies you garnered with your always acute observations.

And, Stuntdouble, you know how much I am enjoying your story...and I think I know which line you most likely are referring to.

Someone on the board just recommended some Willow/Tara stories to me as well. <G>

Ah, yes. The dreaded Mary Sue. She has been around, I'm afraid, since the very earliest days of fanfic (back when it appeared in a fan produced paper 'zine' and found its way to 'cons' to be purveyed) when the more immature writers, mostly, wished so desperately to literally inject themselves into the action of their favorite series they created a newbie character which spoke for them and interacted with the principles.

I've not realised how many Americans write BG Fanfic and that is a truly remarkable achievement and a delightful revelation. The presence of so many good posters the other side of the pond has put so much life into this board in all its facets, including the marvellous Bad Girls Annex board.

QUOTE (Peter Selgin says, "When parts of your own soul speak through your characters, the result is good dialogue." )UNQUOTE

That quote of yours, Stuntdouble, does pack in so much meaning, to make the portrayal of the character so true to life but yet get something meaningful of yourself to appear through that character. It's one of those very profound paradoxes which make sense to me.

The interesting thing is that this will certainly hold good if you are writing dialogue for a character that you closely identify with yet if you are not that character but wish you were, then the relationship is not necessarily a direct one.

What I found hardest to do is to write sustained dialogue scenes and trust that it sustains the effect that you want to give it. For that reason, I used to cut such scenes short.

There's another point which is of major interest to me and that is that Nikki and Helen are characters that Shed wrote as being both true to themselves but yet go through changes. For instance, I wrote my current trial fic portraying Nikki as having much more control over her passions and more patient than she was at the start- the Series 3 finale shows Nikki accepting her lot of not speaking out, allowing others to fight over her destiny which goes so totally against her nature.

Finally, I wish all writers that self belief to get over that 'nerves' barrier in putting their creations for public view.