why does Helen tell Dominic?
wordsmith PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:29 am

why does Helen tell Dominic?
Just wanting to get various opinions. Why do you think Helen outs herself
to Dominic??? Given that she is struggling with her sexuality, her feelings
toward Nikki, and her ambivalence about being involved with a prisoner why spill the beans to him?? What is her motivation??? When Dominic
attempts to kiss her, she rebuffs him. But instead of a simple "sorry, not
interested" she goes on to confess she is in love with someone else.
And those choice of words intrigue me as well. Why not simply say "I am
involved with someone" or " I am interested in someone else"? No she
uses the phrase in love with. And just when did she arrive at that conclusion??? Then she goes on further and tells Dominic that its a woman
she is in love with..in fact, its Nikki Wade. What is driving Helen to
confess this????
----------
Jeanna PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:07 am

She HAD to tell someone. To make it real, perhaps? And they've both had a drink or two. And Dom's the most sympathetic person around. Still, maybe it was just a moving the plot along device and he would've figured into complications that came along with Nikki's escape and return to Larkhall.

I don't know. I watched this for the first time not long ago...and I expected her to pull away and say she was "spoken for" (as Nikki does with Caroline) but my jaw dropped when she told him it was another woman and then hit the floor when she told him who. That was dangerous. But she trusted him. And he is a trustworthy chap. However...what would he have done had he discovered Nikki had run and was missing. What then? Would he have remained a loyal friend or screw, which would come first in that scenario?

More than the surprise I felt at Helen revealing all in this scene...I was totally astounded when she told Nikki that Fenner had molested her. I mean...what the F was Nikki in prison for in the first place?!...defending her gf's honor in a sexual assault by a copper! I thought the last thing Helen was going to do, in order to protect her and stop her from jeopardizing her appeal and eventual hoped for freedom, was tell Nikki. Her first reaction...as we would've expected: "I'll kill him." But this is from season 3 which I feel became much more plot driven than character driven compared to the first two seasons which seemed composed of more slice-of-life realism than the higher melodrama of series 3.

------------

Late Starter PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:12 am

it might b she felt she owed it 2 nikki 2 say somethin as the had already argued about, & when nikki phoned & heard dominic's voice helen automaticly new what nikki wood b thinkin, mayb helen came 2 the conclusion then that she was n love with nikki, but i think she also felt dominic was owed the truth as well,
_________________

abzug PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:14 am

Re: why does Helen tell Dominic?
wordsmith wrote:
Just wanting to get various opinions. Why do you think Helen outs herself to Dominic???

I think its two-fold. The primary issue is that she is totally isolated in her relationship. My guess is that she hasn't even shared it with her friends (we assume she has some, although the only one we've ever seen is Claire), either because of the stigma of being with a woman or the stigma of being with a prisoner. Dominic has been her biggest and most loyal supporter her entire time at Larkhall. She trusts him more than anyone else there, and he knows Nikki. This makes him an ideal person with whom to share her secret. The secondary issue is that I think she feels its the best way to let him down easy, because she really does care about him, and values his support/friendship. There is no better way to tell someone its not about them than to tell them that there's someone else. (Note the parallel to Nikki telling Caroline she's involved, and Caroline saying--paraphrased--I'm a big girl, you can tell me if its just that you're not interested, no need to pretend there is someone else.)

Quote:
Why not simply say "I am involved with someone" or " I am interested in someone else"? No she uses the phrase in love with.

Again, two-fold explanation here. First, she wants Dominic to know that her feelings/the relationship are serious, so to say involved or interested wouldn't capture that. Second (and more importantly), she's quite crafty in using "in love with" rather than "involved with." If she said she was involved with Nikki, that would imply she had behaved inappropriately/illegally--ie it would imply she had kissed/slept with Nikki, or at the very least that they were carrying on a relationship in some way. By limiting her coming out to being about her love for Nikki, she's very specifically NOT ADMITTING to having taken ANY action whatsoever. Dominic may conclude that she has been sexual with Nikki, but Helen hasn't admitted it.

Quote:
And just when did she arrive at that conclusion???

Ah, well, this is a question we can debate endlessly. Sometime during the letter-writing period? After the art-room scene? I think its probably going to be hard to figure this out definitively, but it sure will be fun to discuss it! The

--------------
Jeanna PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:18 am

Late Starter wrote:
it might b she felt she owed it 2 nikki 2 say somethin as the had already argued about, & when nikki phoned & heard dominic's voice helen automaticly new what nikki wood b thinkin, mayb helen came 2 the conclusion then that she was n love with nikki, but i think she also felt dominic was owed the truth as well,


So, you're saying she did it out of a kind of guilt...but in her usual honorable fashion. <G>
_________________

Late Starter PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:28 am

yea in a way it was easier all round, that way there woodnt b any misunderstandin
_________________

GeauxGurl PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:27 am

Telling Barbara ~~
Okay, kinda along the same line here ~~ why do you think Nikki let Babs know about her realtionship?? We never really see her tell her about Helen ~ it just sorta gets "implied" between the "cattle prod" incident, and Babs offering to play "postal go between" for them. Of course, Helen isn't there at this time, as an employee, so maybe she doesn't feel like it's a problem for someone to know. But obviously Dom. has some kind of idea, because he knows that Nikki & Helen are keeping in touch. (This also kinda makes you wonder why it is such a complete shock for him to find out later ...)

I agree with all of the points made above about why Helen does tell Dom.

Good points made ~~

GG Very Happy

_________________

notsuchabadgirl PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 10:06 am

Helen felt that dom was possibley falling in love with her. she liked and respected him a lot and felt that she owed him a proper explanation for her rejection of him.
also of course there was her need to confide in someone her feelings for nikki, and dom was the only person she felt comfortable doing that with.
he was one of the good guys, helen trusted him and he didnt let her down.
_________________
Xenclair PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 5:07 pm

I think Helen realizes she doing her flirting thing without realizing it, and not only Nikki, but Dom thinks she interested in him.
Nikki got it part right when telling Dom "How far did you get, don't say she didn't flirt with you made you think you had a chance," something like that.

I agree with the other ideas too.

Claire

------------
notsuchabadgirl PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 5:17 pm

yes i agree, the way she was behaving towards dom certainly gave him cause to believe she was more than a little bit interested
she maybe realised she had gone to far, i think she says something like "i just need you to know where im coming from"
or in other words "no chance dom!)

_________________
Lisa_Gemini1976 PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:23 am

I'm sure I'm going to repeat what's already been said here, but I'll try to give my two-cents anyway.

I think that when Helen told Dominic, she was not only admitting it to someone else, but also to herself. Dominic gave her the perfect chance to test her own feelings toward Nikki because he was ready and willing and not a bad guy. This is the first time that we actually hear Helen say that she loves Nikki. Nikki had said it before, but Helen hadn't actually said the words. And I think she realized that when she actually said the words aloud that there was no going back. Dominic just happened to be the person she revealed it to. And I thought it an amazing confession on Helen's part. She has always seemed so private to me, except for where Nikki has been concerned. She's always blabbed more than she probably ever intended to Nikki! But outside of that, Helen's always very private. At least that's my perception. Helen

I thought that Helen telling Dominick that she was in love with someone else was such a freeing moment for her. A chance to unload some of that pent up emotion by finally saying the damn words out loud! Helen

As to why Nikki told Barbara who writes EVERYTHING in her diary...argh...what the hell was she thinking??? LOL. Especially knowing how Helen feels about her work integrity! I thought that a serious mistake, but then again...Nikki could be needing to unload that same bundle of pent up emotion as Helen, although she seems to do that every chance she sees Helen.

Helen Simone Helen Simone

_________________

GeauxGurl PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:36 am

Lisa_Gemini1976 wrote:
As to why Nikki told Barbara who writes EVERYTHING in her diary...argh...what the hell was she thinking??? LOL. Especially knowing how Helen feels about her work integrity! I thought that a serious mistake, but then again...Nikki could be needing to unload that same bundle of pent up emotion as Helen, although she seems to do that every chance she sees Helen.



That's my point, we aren't ever "shown" that Nikki "tells" Babs. I can't understand Nikki telling anyone ~ but maybe the "need" to be able to bounce it off of someone else. I guess maybe this is why Nikki is sooo hurt later on when it comes out that Babs has lied! Nikki trusted her ~~
As for the diary, remember how Nikki made the point to say something like, "As long as you don't write anything about me in there .......", and then it turns out to be the doggone diary that is finally the "fall of Helen's reign"!!! (Should've listened, Babs ~~~) Rolling Eyes

_________________

wordsmith PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:37 am

Great comments, Lisa G 1976. Maybe Helen needed to hear herself
say it out loud. She was such a private person and yet she blurted out
this incredibly vulnerable part of herself.
I also find it interesting that Dom knew Helen loved Nikki before Nikki did!
Because Helen doesnt tell Nikki she loves her until after they make love.
But even tho Helen confesses her love, it isnt but a few hours later that
she tells Nikki it's over.

----
Lisa_Gemini1976 PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:32 am

Well, I haven't seen any but the first episode of Season 3 yet (more watching tonight!), but I have read spoilers and such. I think the struggle we're shown between Helen and her love for Nikki is heartwrenching, and yet, how many of us have had to wrestle with something within ourselves that we did not want to succumb to? For many of us, it was very possibly our sexuality, but it can be applied to many other aspects of life. Helen sees things as being so completely black and white, right and wrong, and yet she tries to hard to deny what is in her own heart. It's heartbreakingly beautiful to watch. And Simone does such a wonderful job of portraying this stuggle that Helen deals with daily.

When Helen tells Dominic it has to be such a release for her. And you're right, wordsmith, the fact that he knows before Nikki knows is an interesting aspect. And yet, twice she asks Helen to tell her that she loves her. And Helen can't.

The intricacy of this relationship is just fascinating. I'm enjoying be able to discuss this with ya'll so much!

_________________

Just Another Mad Bad Fan PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:15 pm

Why does Helen tell Dominic?
I thought it was rather interesting that it would seem that Nikki apparently tells Barbara fairly early on about her and Helen. This is despite not knowing her very well yet and in spite of Barbara's apparent, if not homophobia, then perhaps homonervosa! Nikki has a rant to her about the officers looking at her letters from Helen and Barbara offers to act as a go-between. In the deleted scenes, we see Nikki telling her that her services as a go-between won't be required after all, as Helen is back. Then when we see Helen walk onto the wing while the women are lined up for their meal, to speak to Nikki, the knowing little look that Barbara has, suggests that she is privvy to more than just the knowledge that Nikki has been getting friendly letters from the former Governor. This seems strange as she is very careful not to out Helen to anyone else.

Lisa_Gemini1976 PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 9:00 pm

Re: Why does Helen tell Dominic?
Just Another Mad Bad Fan wrote:
I thought it was rather interesting that it would seem that Nikki apparently tells Barbara fairly early on about her and Helen. This is despite not knowing her very well yet and in spite of Barbara's apparent, if not homophobia, then perhaps homonervosa! Nikki has a rant to her about the officers looking at her letters from Helen and Barbara offers to act as a go-between. In the deleted scenes, we see Nikki telling her that her services as a go-between won't be required after all, as Helen is back. Then when we see Helen walk onto the wing while the women are lined up for their meal, to speak to Nikki, the knowing little look that Barbara has, suggests that she is privvy to more than just the knowledge that Nikki has been getting friendly letters from the former Governor. This seems strange as she is very careful not to out Helen to anyone else.


I think that Nikki, in her passionate nature, has a tendency to speak before she thinks, which often lands her in hotwater. Surprising, considering where she is, she doesn't seem to know that she shouldn't Babs about her and Helen! Then again, look at Helen telling Dominick! Very interesting dynamics here!

Cheers to the writers for the complexity and depth of characters and storylines!
_________________

abzug PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 9:15 pm

Well, one defense of Nikki is that she probably told Babs before she knew that Helen was going to be working at Larkhall. (Was this mentioned up thread? I can't remember.) So she wasn't necessarily revealing anything which needed to be kept secret. Especially because she already knew Helen was coming to visit her, so obviously Helen was comfortable with people knowing they had some sort of intimate relationship.

-------------------
Lisa_Gemini1976 PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:26 am

abzug wrote:
Well, one defense of Nikki is that she probably told Babs before she knew that Helen was going to be working at Larkhall. (Was this mentioned up thread? I can't remember.) So she wasn't necessarily revealing anything which needed to be kept secret. Especially because she already knew Helen was coming to visit her, so obviously Helen was comfortable with people knowing they had some sort of intimate relationship.


True enough. I was rather surprised that Helen did go visit Nikki, actually. I never thought she would!

_________________

Lisa289 PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 5:54 pm

I never thought Helen would go see Nikki either. I kept thinking, "Are they gonna show they'rea couple or what?" But they never, it was just a friendly visit. The look on Hollambys n Fenners faces were priceless tho!
_________________

ekny PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 6:20 pm

Just Another Mad Bad Fan wrote:
This is despite not knowing her very well yet and in spite of Barbara's apparent, if not homophobia, then perhaps homonervosa!


Did you coin this or hear it/read it somewhere or what? For whatever reason I missed it first time round... it's really pretty damn clever. --e

-----------

Just Another Mad Bad Fan PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 12:06 pm

Why does Helen tell Dominic?
Coined it I'm afraid. I couldn't think of any other word to describe it as it's not as offensive as homophobia, but it seemed a good way to describe Babs in bed with her duvet up to her chin and her knickers on, and that rather quavering "Goodnight Nikki" (please don't climb into my bed with me tonight!)

_________________

ekny PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 3:12 pm

Just Another Mad Bad Fan wrote:
Coined it I'm afraid.


Well I think it's excellent!

------------
Jeanna PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 6:06 pm

I second that. I'll be using it, with proper accreditation, of course, from now on. Smile

-----------
munky PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 3:20 pm

Helen telling Dominic at her house is in s2ep12. In s2ep11, if you remember, after a lifers' meeting, Nikki lingers and she and Helen have a very private and intimate moment. Actually it is the moment when Nikki is just about to declare her love for Helen.

Just that the moment is interrupted by Dominic... who came to lock up.
It is after this that Nikki writes a letter to Helen confessing in black & white about how she feels.

Couple this with the fact that Helen is fond of Dominic (not part of the old boys network), she has plans for his career (if he progresses on the fast track like her she could an invaluable ally) and respects him as a human being.

Plus, as with the others, she is ultimately honest. She needs to tell Dominic both because she thinks he's thinking about it anyway (after 'catching' them after the lifers' meeting) and because she sees that he is falling in love with her and it wouldn't be right to let him fall in love her when she doesn't love him. Again, for Helen being in love, love itself is serious and precious. She needs to be honest with Dominic as she needed to be honest with Sean. Out of respect for their love for her, out of respect for what love is, out of her fundamental honesty.

And above all that, she needs to hear herself say those words, clear and loud. Nikki has already declared her love in the letter and Helen wants to do it too. Short of doing it to Nikki's face (which is rather complicated seeing as they have no privacy AND Nikki is so tormented by jealousy at this point that she doesn't give Helen a chance), she tells it to Dominic. Who else could she have told it? Safely and in a fulfilling confessional way?