PERSONALLY I DIDN'T THINK I'D LIKE IT AT 1ST BUT THOUGHT IT WAS GREAT

WHAT'S EVERYONE ELSES OPPINIONS ON THE NEW SERIES ?

We enjoyed it! I am hoping this doesn't become a disappointment for us again (we had hoped other series were getting better only to end up with disappoinment, especially series 7).

No surprise about Neil - And its going to be interesting to see how they carry the storyline on. I just hope it isn't too rushed.

Looking forward to next week now.

(PS - LIPWADERULES - Not to have a go, but people don't like CAP'S in posts - its considered to be shouting at another poster. Please try and type with the CAP'S off. Cheers).

What a first ep!!!! I knew Phyl was gettin shot in this series but the FIRST ep?!?! SHOCKER!!!!!

And just to recap my memory, when did Neil get demoted to wing gov?

*skips lightly through thread trying to avoid major spoilers...*

I just have one question... does the new gov (or something) really wear jeans on the wing?

It took a little while to get into it, but i thought it was pretty good.
Poor Neil! Poor Phyl!

And yes the new gov does really wear jeans on the wing!

Yay! Is she any good? (From what you can tell so far, I mean...)

I can imagine that Joy wouldn't be too impressed with the jeans :D

First impressions... I thought she was great :D

Joy was not impressed with her dress sense to say the least, the scene where they met on the car park was wonderful.

Joy *I though at least the department would have sent someone who knew how to dress for the job "


This was followed by an offer to loan Lou one of her tops...an offer that was flatly refused !!!!

Sounds like it could be fun... I will stop reading now, until it screens in NZ.

Thanks girls! I can't wait to see it...I've got it, but now I've got to get some sleep. I guess I'll just have to wait until tomorrow.... :lol:

Oh yes, I loved the car park scene! And loved Lou's response to Joy's offer to loan a top!! I'm lovin Lou already, think she's a great character - and Donny Kimber as well.

It was good. It had brilliant moments. But somehow I felt it didn't pick the pace. Or maybe my anticipation and excitement were so high that I expected somehting as fast paced as ER. Though, you know when you are watching something that is engaging, you forget about the rest of the world and the fact that you are watching. Cause you are there in the world of whatever it is you're watching. Well, I didn't all the time with this ep.

Mainly I felt yet again that nothing & no one will equal S1-3 ever.

Having said that, I love the fact that Amanda Donohoe is there, she doesn't dissapoint. She's such a mischievous actress.

The grand ideas and challenges that Shed push through in the form of BG are good as usual. Style of filming is different though and this may account for my not being so taken by it.

I really think a bit of Shell is just what it needs.

Amanda Donohoe for us has already come out with a classic line for the series!

Natalie – “And who the hell are you, bitch?”
Lou – “I’m Louise Stoke and I’m the new bitch in charge of this wing.”

As well as the interaction with Joy and Neil:

Joy – “If you don’t like my methods Grayling, you know where the airlock is.”
Neil – “If I walked out right now, you wouldn’t last a day.”
Joy – “Perhaps you should walk out if that’s how you feel.”
Neil – “Perhaps I should, might teach you a bloody lesson.”
Lou – “Day one in the ‘Big Brother’ house or what?”

I actually thought it has some pace back very like we did get in the earlier series. I am holding judgement for the rest of it, because unfortunately I didn't enjoy the last one - even ended up giving up watching most of it - and I was disappointed because I thought both series 6 and 7 started with promise, but never quite delivered for me.

So fingers crossed, and I've always been a fan of Amanda Donohoe's anyway, so I am hoping she is a good strong new character.

I just cannot get to like Natalie Buxton - even allowing for her being the nasty side of G wing these days. Admittedly better than some, I still just don't quite feel she has it enough.

I thought the way they tackled the racism angle was also well done - and again its going to be interesting to see how they might develop the storyline.

I also loved those two lines from Louise. I think I'm gonna really like her this series.

I remember Amanda Donohoe chiefly for her role in LA Law and also the memorable (although not in a good way) Brit horror flick 'The Lair of the White Worm'...but I have to say, her incarnation as Lou Stoke is the first time i've ever found her attractive.

I really enjoyed last night. Bodybag being typically racist (looks like the race relations course has been forgotten) and typically panicking when she thought that she was at risk of being poisoned. Joy very nearly being the captain that went down with her ship...even when recovering from being knocked out, she was still trying to stop the prisoners from running...

The fact that Emira was portrayed as a British convert was possibly the only way the storyline could work without ruffling too many feathers. Her debate with Pat was wonderful...Pat's assumptions that Emira had been brainwashed and Emira's own insistance that Islam had changed her life for the better.

And of course...all of the inmates on the wing just 'assumed'...mob mentality ruled supreme. Natalie was bound to take advantage.

My own personal highlight was the ricin discussion, particularly Janine's - "they send it to you in the mail and then you die'...brilliant!

This episode was a pretty strong dramatic opener. Shed wrote well in portraying the hysteria about tererorist poisoning before deflating it to legionaire's disease in the same vein as the Christmas special. One bit of a technical gripe was the absent Principal Officer who would have stopped the likes of Bodybag 'leading' the other Po's to turn and run and leave the prisoners to their fate- you have to sneakily admit that Fenner would not have done that. Ditto goes for the strange introduction of a deputy governor. The whole terrorist/ Islamophobia issue was adriotly handled and in making the 'terrorist' a white convert. Interesting also was both Natalie's and Pat's antipathy, Natalie being a racist bully and Pat being an atheist. The episode was very prescient in the horrifying death of Phyl in relation to the recent real life heavy handed big police operations (Jean Menendes for instance).

There were (as yet) unexplained chyaracter absences- Kevin Spiers (especially with Donny Kimber coming from G wing) and Di Barker- perhaps we will be enlightened. I was not prepared for Grayling's exit and the adroit portrayal of Joy jumping to conclusions. Grayling's and Louise's evident rapport and Grayling's very pointed remarks were pure entertainment as was his final scornful dismissal of Joy.

Louise's entrance to Larkhall after watching the pole dancer is certainly a mark of better things to come.

It's interesting at the end to see the line of armed police looking something like the Po's in riot gear as in the Series 3 and 4 near riot situations but this time they were penning in prisoners and prison officers alike and the full glare of the lights cast an eerie spell.

Certainly, it was noticable that Pat Emeera (?) and Louise have the makings of a reasonable relationship while they looked after Tina. Whether things go any further between Louise and Pat as previous posts have hinted would / might bang up against Louise's position though there is a hint that 'she needs to get her career back on track' as Joy mentions. The peculiarities of Shed time are only joined up by Joy's reference to 'since Grayling was demoted' (at the end of Series 6)

Well I was not riveted to my chair by any means. The muslim s/l is being handled well and rings quite true to the times. I loved the fact that bodybag thought she could step into Graylings place when he couldn't be found. However the mass exodus of both guards and prisoners was a little hard to swallow and the fact that Lou could figure out the problem with the a/c so fast another. I think Amanda Donohue is a great addition (I loved her in LA Law & Murder City). On the prisoners side there are very few that I could care about unlike previous seasons.
I must admit that the introduction of the idiot who played Ricky on Eastenders was also a minus. I hope as the season progresses they add some strong characters. It looked in the previews like they were hinting at a realtionship between Lou and the new doctor so I hope it is not a variation of the H&N s/l.

Hi everyone, great posts on this episode. I thought it was riveting--felt fully captivated the entire time and eager to see what would happen next. I'm not sure that I have any deep thoughts (for anyone who might have been anticipating them from me) but I am intrigued by all the ambiguous sexuality we're seeing all over the place this season. First, the introduction of Lou, with her absorbed in some sort of non-verbal flirtation with the pole dancer (and repeatedly ignoring the man hitting on her) told me she was a lesbian right off. And I think that's what Shed wanted us to think. But then they give us two instances of her flirting with a man (one with the new guard what's-his-name, and the other I guess was with the SMO in scenes from next week). But her rapport with Grayling suggests they have at least a little something in common. And then that very pointed dinner invitation for Joy, which echoed that moment in the first episode of series one where Fenner tries to invite Helen out for a drink and she refuses (as does Joy)--both were couched in similar terms: we have to figure out how to work together, lets go out for dinner/a drink--professional, and yet not? So very deliberately ambiguous with Lou (ah, love the masculine nicknames for the women!), and then we still don't know Joy's story (sexuality-wise), and we've got the new female officer actually scoping Lou out (blink and you'll miss it, but I rewound and it was really there--in the scene in Joy's office).

Apart from the sexuality stuff, I found Lou to be a very engaging character. A bit oppositional, a rebel--which I like. Moments of toughness where she reminded me of Frances Myers. And a definite caring concern which was reminiscent of Helen (her interactions with the ailing Tina etc).

I thought the staging of the attempted prisoner escape was very interesting--Joy was standing with the prisoners, among them, one of them. With a very scared, not-in-control look on her face. This is not the Joy from the end of season 7, that's for sure. Its a huge shift for someone who has shown very few signs of any identification with or feeling for the prisoners.

Oh, and poor Neil! At least he got a decent send-off, as any character who has been with the show four seasons deserves. And Phyl! Say it ain't so! Is it cynical of me to speculate that they couldn't afford to pay both Amanda Donohoe AND Stephanie Beecham?

Oh, hey, tothestarsandback and others, can we all agree to not post spoilers in the episode discussion threads? Its hard for those of us who are trying to stay relatively spoiler-free, but want to discuss episodes which have already aired.

Oh, and, interesting twist with Pat coming down against Emira. I think Richard mentioned this upthread as well. Pat, who always stands up for the underdog, has absolutely no patience or sympathy for anyone driven by religion. Very interesting contrast to her reaction to the cons' bullying of Arun. In this way, Pat is like the antithesis of our current evangelical-moralistic culture, where religious people are valued and people of alternative sexualities-genders are not.

I like how the show has consistently examined the role religion plays in society and for individuals. We've had a number of significant religious characters and plotlines (Crystal, Barbara, the nun, now Emira) and in every case the character's and the audience's assumptions about religion are questioned. Crystal ultimately loses her faith after seeing so many unjust deaths, Barbara overcomes her homophobic prejudices (which we assume were rooted in her religion), the nun who we all perceived as a loving and caring person was exposed as a sadistic abuser, and an Islamic fundamentalist who we thought was driven to harm people was shown as something much more complex. So there seems to be a bit of suggestion that religion has its time and place, and it helps certain people and hurts others. Before this episode I would have said the show came down decidedly against fundamentalism, but now with Emira I'm not so sure--she was able to articulate her case pretty effectively in her discussion with Pat. So kudos to BG for exploring a very touchy issue without being reductive or simplistic.

Well, according to the Official BG website Larkhall Insider, Di Barker won't be in series 8, at least not as a regular.

The new additions include:
Dr. Rowan Dunlop - played by Colin Salmon - the new SMO
Mandy Goodhue - played by Angela Bruce - a transfer PO
Donny Kimber - played by Sid Owen - a transfer PO
Louise Stoke - played by Amanda Donahoe - Assistant Governing Govenor (Grade 2); and now G-Wing Governor

Returning Characters:
POs
Sylvia (Bodybag) Hollamby - played by Helen Fraser
Joy Masterton - played by Ellie Haddington

Regular Inmates
Julie Saunders (Vicky Alcock)
Julie Johnston (Kika Mirylees)
Janine Nabeski (Nicola Stapleton)
Natalie Buxton (Danielle Brent)
Pat Kerrigan (Liz May Brice)
Tina O'Kane (Vikki Bush)
Phyl Oswyn (Stephanie Beachum)
Bev Tull (Amanda Barrie)
Darlene Cake (Antonia Okanma)

Hi Abzug, glad to see your posts
My political sympathies are antiwar but not religious except to the point of appreciating Barbara's tolerant, humanistic version of it. I found myself in some sympathy with both Pat and Elmira and Shed have handled the whole issue with great care. By contrast, Natalie personified the Rupert Murdoch influenced bigoted approach.
I love the way that Grayling and louise immediately struck up a conversation leaving Joy definitely sidelined and makes a very effective link in him 'passing on the torch' to her which Grayling has himself inherited from Karen, Helen etc. and Grayling's contempt for Joy that 'without him, she wouldn't last five minutes.' This contempt is peculiarly appropriate as it is a reflection on when he first came to Larkhall and had ideas which were as removed from reality as Joy's. That being said, you get the feeling that she is not just the ex army squarebasher, especially with her views on Christmas and of self improvement, however misguided they are in execution.
You got the feeling that Elmira was a touch more humanised in the way that she, Louise, Pat and Tina were all together and that while Joy is prejudiced against Pat, Louise sees a different side to her. And yes, the image of Joy with the others caught in the police spotlight was a very powerful image.

This thread has been split - this new topic is for general discussions only - please do not include conjecture about future storylines or characters - keep the discussions relevent to episode 1.
Thanks.

Yes, absolutely. Shed has done such a good job showing how religion can enhance a person and their life, and also how it can be used as a destructive tool. Not just the nun, but also the way "evil" characters like Shell and Snowball pretended to be religious in order to manipulate others, and assert power over them, and benefit from the priveleges religious people seem to receive (ie they are more immediately trusted).

Its interesting to connect Helen, Karen and Grayling while also emphasizing the importance of experience. Because when Helen first came in, of course, she had none, and in a way BG portrayed this as a positive thing, because she wasn't corrupted or lazy like Fenner, Bodybag or Stubby. But nowadays they seem to be suggesting the importance of hands-on experience. I wonder if that's because the writers themselves are older and more experienced and now see the value in it?

I was wondering about the meaning of Pat not escaping with the rest of the cons. In all the discussions of how Pat is like (or not like) Nikki, one thing that has always been at the back of my mind is that Pat doesn't seem to care about getting out of prison. Even during the relationship with Sheena, this was just not a major issue for her at all. And in fact, in the scene with Emira, Pat says something about how she's focused on living in this life, which was a surprisingly life-affirming comment from someone who is potentially going to be locked up for the rest of her life. And then this was shortly followed by the sequence where absolutely every other non-sick person escapes, except Pat, who stays on the wing and appears to be thinking "Where the hell are all of you going?" Almost as if she sees no possibility to get out, no real vision of what a life would be like outside the wing. I love the way that Grayling and louise immediately struck up a conversation leaving Joy definitely sidelined and makes a very effective link in him 'passing on the torch' to her which Grayling has himself inherited from Karen, Helen etc. and Grayling's contempt for Joy that 'without him, she wouldn't last five minutes.' This contempt is peculiarly appropriate as it is a reflection on when he first came to Larkhall and had ideas which were as removed from reality as Joy's. Very institutionalized, but yet not hopeless. This intrigues me.

Do you think there was an intentional parallel between the introduction of the character of Lou and the introduction of the character of Helen? Both are shown getting ready in their cars as they drive to work, and then entering the prison through the gate. Both putting their "masks" on (Helen's mask = makeup, Lou's mask = glasses), and both expressing frustration (Helen's first line is "shit" as we all know, and Lou made it very clear she was not anticipating having to go to work, nor did she feel ready to do so). For each there is a sense of who is this character inside vs the persona they show in the "public" sphere.

Was anyone else surprised when Lou came out of the bar and it was daylight? This moment surprised me, I guess because since she was in a bar, I had assumed it was nighttime. (Did I learn NOTHING from my trip to Scotland? ;) ) I suspect there's also something revealed about the character in this moment. Not that she's a big drinker/partier (although we could definitely conclude that) but that we may have assumptions about her (that she's at the bar at night) which will be proved wrong (its daylight when she leaves). I'm not suggesting she isn't a lesbian, but I do think they are playing around with us here, trying to keep us guessing about this character, since so much of her behavior is unexpected.

Edited to add this caveat: The following is just speculation, not spoiler-related. I don't know what happens to Phyl. They've implied she was shot, but that doesn't mean she dies. If she does die, however (and I don't know if she does), the symbolism of that would be very interesting. That's what I am contemplating below.

And poor Phyl! Of course I don't know her exact fate, but assuming she dies from the bullet, then she's another con in a long line of characters who Shed has seemed to determine actually deserve a negative fate. Yvonne, Shaz, Al, Fenner--nearly every character who dies (particularly those who die of non-natural causes) has a very questionable morality. As much as we love(d) Yvonne, it would be tough to regard her as a Good person through and through--she has little compunction about murdering people after all. Shaz was always portrayed as without any moral sense--not necessarily immoral, but more like amoral. No conscience whatsoever. And I think the writers always intended us to be troubled by that. Phyl, similarly, has always had concern for herself and Bev, and treated everyone else as a pawn in her own game. And in such a manipulative fashion (as is the way of the con-artist) which seemed to reject the basic humanity of her targets, of really anyone other than herself and Bev. Which is not so different from a mass-murderer really.

This isn't to say that these characters didn't have their redeeming moments (Phyl killing Malcolm was absolutely fantastic, and there are many others), but just that Shed chooses their characters' fates carefully, and its not an accident that Phyl has a violent end*, rather than a happy one.

* Edited to add: again, I don't know if she does have a violent end, all I know is what I saw at the end of this episode.

The comparison between Helen and Louise is an inspirational connection of thought.
Here are my preliminary thoughts which are transitional depending on what is revealed of Louise.
Certainly, Louise is older having been in the prison service for a while, once expected by Grayling to get to area management, Joy hints that she has been under a cloud in some way 'in getting her career back on track' and 'not having many options' while Helen had just started out after 2 years as a PO.
Both are liberals, Louise being influenced by Grayling and you get the feeling that both are crusaders only in Helen's case it is more overt while Louise has a tough Frances approach. That Louise, Pat, Emira and Tina end up in the wing is Shed being at their more subtle in suggesting Louise as a 'people person. Louise is hedonistic while Herlen, for all her ability to put away the alcohol in social situations has a more puritan approach.
The coincidence of both of them shown driving to work is something I clean missed but your point, Abzug, is spot on.

Thanks! :) I had to sleep on it before that one came to me. But I have to say, in noticing these kinds of things, it sure helps to have devoured all seven seasons in the span of 7 months, rather than 7 years! :)

Oh, one other thing I feel compelled to say. I do not miss Fenner or Di one tiny little bit. It is SUCH a relief to not have them on the show. Its like back to season 1, before Fenner was so OTT evil, and before Di was on the show. As my gf said, they had become SO toxic by the end it was incredibly unpleasant to watch their scenes. Even Bodybag doesn't seem as bad now that she's isolated. Another observation by my gf about Bodybag was that no matter what she goes through, the woman just never grows or changes. Not one tiny little bit. Which is strangely comforting in a way. Not comforting, but she's reliable in her laziness and total narcicism. And it makes it easier to laugh at her. There was no way I was laughing at Di or Fenner the last few seasons.

This will be a challenge to Shed to write BG without Fenner as he has been at the centre of BG for so long, the corrupting influence and, yes, I agree that Di had become so poisoned in her attitude in comparison with how she started. I shall watch this with interest.
The only different sides of Bodybag we have seen is her pursuing Henry and being taken for a ride by Dr No No but I agree with your general sentiments. It was interesting to see Lou's mistaken perception of Bodybag at the first meeting and how she put her foot in it when she was told of Grayling's death. This is something that Lou will take note of. Bodybag certainly needs someone to whinge to and usually has someone smarter than herself to conspire with, like Fenner and Di so that her present evolution will be interesting. I did note with interest Bodybag saying that Grayling wouldn't be stupid to walk off the job as Joy suggested.

I agree. I know most of us cheered when he croaked it, but lets face it - he was the one that we all loved to hate. Shed are gonna have to do something very special to replace Fenner.

It will be interesting to see, but I was definitely feeling like he had outstayed his welcome, his usefulness. I'm kind of hoping they don't introduce another character who is pure evil (as they seemed to be doing last year with Spiers) but instead allow us to see characters with moral ambiguity, or characters who take morally ambiguous actions, but aren't Evil. To me, this is a lot more like Real Life.

Hey, what did everyone think about the flashback device? If I am not mistaken, this is the first Bad Girls episode which was not completely linear. I thought it enhanced the dramatic tension quite a bit, in a good way, and allowed this episode to feel less derivative than it might have otherwise (since it was somewhat of a combination of the episode where the library explodes and the episode where everyone gets inadvertently poisoned by Phyl and Bev).

Your basic double comparison of this episode with past ones is pretty apt, abzug. If I've got it right with your other reference, I very much liked the 'collage' effect at the start of the episode which had a disorientating effect when first seen but which made sense once the episode had been seen. It had the same effect as the very end of Series 6 when the jump cut and the colouring effect made it seem that Fenner in jail wasn't necessarily real Talking of Fenner, there is a problem of an absence of a Principal Officer and, what there is of it, Bodybag as Senior Officer. The first job seems to work as a fulcrum between the Pos and the Wing Governor and above. So far, it has been only seen to work to evil effect .
(Curiously enough, and episode of Judge John Deed deealing with a racially motivated murder of a prisoner, aided and abetter by the prison officers had the villain of the piece as a Scot , Principal Officer grade who had an equally sinister influence over the PO's)

When I first read this I thought to myself, ok, fair enough. But its kind of stuck in my mind over the past few days because I realize I don't think I understand. Can you explain in a little more detail about why this character needed to be a convert rather than a Muslim who is originally from the Middle East? I assume I'm missing something about how Muslims are regarded in the UK....

Interesting association there, Richard. I hadn't actually thought of it, but you're absolutely right that in both instances the prison was portrayed in this very surreal way, very dream-like. A huge contrast to basically every other scene filmed in the prison, which are usually hyper-realistic. In both cases definitely making you wonder whether what is occurring is real or not.

The nice thing about only getting to watch one ep per week is that I've been inspired to watch twice, which is not something I've done since the days of S1-3. Two perhaps significant things I noticed the second time.

Us versus Them No More?
So, this us vs them theme, which they've played with off and on over the years, particularly in season 5. It seems to be a central preoccupation again now, in this first ep of season 8, except this time I'm wondering if there is a shift. A shift to something like "we're all in this together."

1. You've got this character of Lou Stoke, who is clearly a "bad" girl--we first see her patronizing a strip club, she arrives at work drunk wearing a leather top and jeans, she rolls her eyes and makes lewd hand gestures when Joy's back is turned etc. If I am not mistaken, this is the first prison officer character who has identified so much as a rebel, not respecting authority. Very con-like, imo.

2. The whole sequence with the discovery of the two deaths and then the escape from the wing repeatedly touched on this theme of the prisoners and cons being the same. Lou declares that she's going to stay in the wing "breathing the same air" as the cons. Donny winds up getting locked in a cell along with Janine. When Sylvia and the cowardly officers try to leave the prison, the police tell them they can't, and Sylvia shouts something like "You can't keep us prisoner!" Which of course, they can. And then the imagery mentioned above of Joy standing outside the prison amongst the cons, not separate, not as a leader, but as one of them.

My predictions in the past have been complete crap (I'm the one who thought Phyl was going to escape and live an idyllic life in Spain), but now I'm suspecting that this is going to be a season with little conflict between the officers and the cons, where they work more together against other oppositional forces (ie Pat vs Natalie, perhaps Lou vs Joy). I mean, who knows really, but it is definitely intriguing that they started off the season with this kind of equating of the cons and the screws.

The Supernatural vs the Rational
OK, I know many many people didn't like the Xmas episode, or didn't think it fit with the tone and themes of the other series of BG. But there was a section of this ep which really reminded me of the Xmas episode. When Ashlee is writhing in bed and we see Grayling lying dead in his office, the scenes are intercut with Emira praying. The whole thing is edited to suggest that her prayers are causing the illness in a very supernatural kind of way. And of course by the end of the episode the outbreak is nicely and scientifically explained. Very similar to the Xmas ep, where many supernatural things seemed to be occuring, only to have rational explanations at the end (the con who thinks she's the devil is psychotic after a traumatic incident, Julie J stopped taking her meds etc).

Background on Legionaire's Disease
In case anyone is interested. Excerpted from Wikipedia:

Legionnaires' disease acquired its name in 1976 when an outbreak of pneumonia occurred among people attending a convention of the American Legion in Philadelphia. On January 18, 1977 scientists identified the causative agent as a previously unknown bacterium, subsequently named Legionella.

Outbreaks of Legionnaires' disease receive significant media attention. However, this disease usually occurs as a single, isolated case not associated with any recognized outbreak. When outbreaks do occur, they are usually recognized in the summer and early fall, but cases may occur year-round. The fatality rate of Legionnaires' disease has ranged from 5 to 30 percent during various outbreaks.

Patients with Legionnaires' disease usually have fever, chills, and a cough, which may be dry or may produce sputum. Some patients also have muscle aches, headache, tiredness, loss of appetite, and, occasionally diarrhea. Laboratory tests may show that patients' kidneys are not functioning properly. Chest X-rays often show pneumonia.

People of any age may get Legionnaires' disease, but the illness most often affects middle-aged and older persons, particularly those who smoke cigarettes or have chronic lung disease. Immunocompromised patients are also at elevated risk.

How Legionnaires' disease is spread
Legionellosis infection occurs after persons have breathed mists that come from a water source contaminated with Legionella. Potential sources of such contaminated water include cooling towers used in industrial cooling water systems as well as in large central air conditioning systems, domestic hot water systems, showers, whirlpool spas, fountains, room-air humidifiers. and similar disseminators that draw upon a public water supply. Freshwater ponds and creeks are also potential sources of Legionella.

Yes, I put something about Legionnaire's Disease into the A to Z...

http://www.badgirls.co.uk/library/lib_atoz/atoz_l.html

Funnily enough, as soon as I saw that dripping air-conditioner I though, 'Legionnaire's disease'...I once knew someone whose job was to test and clean out air-conditioning units in hospitals and he had no end of horror stories...the reason I take apart and clean out my shower head on a regular basis!

Thanks ff, I should have known you'd be on top of it. Now you just need to add links from your episode summary to your AtoZ. Because that wouldn't take a ridiculously long amount of time or anything. Nah, it'd be a breeze. ;)

The interesting thing about Legionaire's disease is that when the initial outbreak occurred, the response by the gov't and its public heath groups was incredibly fast and proactive. A few years later when the first AIDS cases were discovered, needless to say the response was not the same, for a disease with a 100% fatality rate, as opposed to the 5-30% fatality rate of Legionaire's disease. Gay activists at the time were infuriated by this, seeing it as evidence of rampant homophobia--no one cared if gay people died, but they did care of middle aged white men did.

Kind of ironic, in this context, that Grayling was felled by Legionaire's disease then, isn't it?

Hi Abzug. The matter of Moslems in Britain is a tricky one. I am using terminology in quotes, not that I agree with the terms but to refer to expressions as used. Years ago, the forces of racialism as in the extreme right wing political parties targeted blacks from the West Indies as a cultural threat to the ,quote, 'British way of life', unquote, an unfortunate phrase that Tony Blair has used. To use the term generally, 'Asians' were thought of as a more industrious but still 'coloured' population. The blacks seem to have disappeared from racialist consciousness. There seems to be a side by side rise of a not exactly sympathetic fundamentalist Islam and at the same time, a Rupert Murdoch driven prejudice against 'bogus asylum seekers' and the same kind of bigots will also be also running scared of terrorists. Natalie Buxton's reaction is a perfectly drawn character who would read the Murdoch press and the fears of being poisoned by 'ricin' is par for the course. Unfortunately, when there is TV coverage of Moslem extremists, they do feature religious bigots which favour the extreme right wing party called the British National Party.
This is only my opinion but in Britain, the real and publicly unacknowledged accomplishment of the British antiwar movement has been to find a place for Moslem dissent to be suitably channelled via the Moslem Association of Great Britain. It finds a home in a political environment which is as bitterly and fundamentally opposed to corrupt Blairite New Labour politicians as anyone. Far better that than to turn to violent fundamentalism.

Back to Elmira. Shed did a good job is showing the range of attitudes in Larkhall and feature a white woman with a broad Liverpool accent to try and avoid a stereotyped person and a stereotyped reaction, i.e. to challenge thinking rather than viewers to pick up on ready made thinking.

Again, these are my thoughts and others may have a different point of view.

Thanks Richard--that explanation was extremely helpful. Its not so different from the US, but there are subtle differences in how we regard race as a country of immigrants where there are no True Americans (no matter WHAT anyone says!).

This seems to play into a lot of the analysis campgrrls was doing of Natalie in the season 7 threads, this idea that she embodies the ultra-conservative capitalist cultural-political perspective. And is therefore the height of evil, second only to Fenner. Did I mention how glad I am he is gone? ;)

I've been thinking more about this ricin idea, vs Legionaire's disease. Part of why I started musing over this is because of that random association I made up thread of Legionaire's disease vs AIDS, where Legionaire's epitomizes the "good" kind of illness, ie one that happens to you through no fault of your own (ie no promiscuous sex, no smoking, no hiking through swamps etc). Very few harmful incidents on Bad Girls are that innocuous in their cause. Usually when characters are harmed, its through intentional (or at least neglient) action. Fights, food poisoning, drugs, improper medical treatment etc. And there was an immediate assumption that this case fell into the same category, that Emira was poisoning all of the cons to make a political point, to punish the west for the damage it is doing to the middle east etc.

And instead it wound up being a situation which epitomizes the idea that sometimes bad things just happen, and no one is at fault or to blame, no matter what your political position and your ability to warp the truth (as happened with AIDS and the religious right declaring it God's punishment on gay people). Which of course is only worth noting because I can't think of another time when something very bad has happened to a character on Bad Girls and it wasn't someone's fault. Could be part of the new tone of this season, along with the unity between the cons and the screws.

These are the kind of things I contemplate when I only have one episode a week to think about....

First off, hello to everyone. I see a few familiar names.



I loved the introduction of Lou Stoke from the first time we see her, to her first meeting with Joy and then when she meets G-wing. I found Emira's story interesting, but I'm not sure I understand her charge. Aiding her husband's escape? We and the police saw the scene play out. I don't see how they had enough evidence to even hold her for trial on that charge. Donny seemed all right, but honestly the bar isn't very high for officers. If he's not a nutjob or a sadist, he might make employee of the month. If he is a nutjob or a sadist, he'll probably make wing governor. Mandy, eh, she's no Vicky. Speaking of, where did she go? Apparently G-wing is actually the Bermuda Triangle. I was sorry to see Neil go. He was my favorite male governor. Pat looked a bit glammed up, but she didn't really have much to do in the ep. I'm guessing the writers wanted to establish some kind of bond between Pat, the lifer with nothing to lose, Emira, the outsider with a huge target on her back and Lou, the new guy trying to fit in. I really can't think of another reason for having the Julies leave a very ill Tina alone to die. If it had been anyone else, I wouldn't have thought much about it, but Tina is their closest friend in Larkhall. I mean, she was a Julie at one point. Overall I quite enjoyed this episode and I'm looking forward to seeing how the rest of the series plays out.


If anyone watches the Daily Show with Jon Stewart, I give you your moment of zen...

Frances Myers: "There's only gonna be one bastard screw from now own and you're looking at her."

Lou Stoke: "I'm Louise Stoke and I am the new bitch in charge of this wing."

That hasn't stopped the American government from holding prisoners in Cuba.... ;) All kidding aside, I had actually assumed that they were holding her on a bit of a trumped up charge in order to get information about her husband. So we're not supposed to think its legitimate that she's in prison--that's part of the problem with this whole war on terrorism.

This totally cracked me up. So true, so true.

I always thought the Julies liked Tina, but saw her as a bit of a tagalong, more than anything else. Not someone they'd sacrifice their lives for, for example. I mean, when she became a Julie, they seemed a bit taken aback. Like, it wasn't a club that they thought she would presume she could join.

Nice. For the moment of zen, and the review.

Good points, APB and Abzug about exactly what Elmira is actually charged with. You got the feeling that Shed deliberately underplayed this point and went on to portray prisoners assuming that she was guilty despite their knowledge of experiences otherwise. For the benefit of non Brits who may know anyway,the armed police shot dead an ordinary South American called Jean de Mezeses who was in the process of catching the tube and recently, 200 police piled into a house in London and wounded one of two brothers. Both instances were where police intelligence was faulty and they went after the wrong guy. The filming of the raid on Elmira's flat had definite resonances of this.
I agree with all the other points and couldn't improve much on them apart from absolutely agreeing with the portrayal of Natalie who, if my memory serves me right, talked in Series 6 of market forces or supply and demand in terms of her vice ring. If not, she certainly acted that way along with her extreme xenophobia.

When watching the opening sequence of this series, I was reminded of S1 which opens with the dance sequence of the fashion show. That sequence always seems surprising because in a show that's about a prison and prisoners, you see it and you think, What's going on here? This doesn't look like anything about prison! The same thing applied to the opening of S5 in the nightclub in Amsterdam, and now they have used it again here! I thought that Lou's non participatory observation of the dancer was also perhaps a little reminiscent of Nikki standing watching the other women rehearsing in S1 Ep1 - which may also serve to help keep us guessing about her sexuality - as you have said abzug, I think that they are deliberately keeping us guessing in that regard!

I was puzzled about why suddenly, after 7 series, Larkhall suddenly needed an Assistant Governing Governor! But of course it is a useful device to allow for the introduction of the major new character, in the opening sequence, while the Neil Greyling character is still around! That way we also get to see the relationship and the common purpose of Lou and Greyling, and as I think it was Richard who said, the passing of the torch from Greyling to Lou. But I somehow don't think that now that Lou is going to be G Wing Governor, that the post of Assistant Governing Governor will exist anymore - tick that plot device off the list!

I think you make an interesting point abzug, about the similarities of Helen driving to work in S1 Ep1 and Lou in this one - the difference being that Helen hadn't just stepped out of a strip joint, and was the classic wholesome, fresh, optomistic fast tracker! Lou appears to have driven around the block a few more times perhaps!
(Perhaps on your next trip to the UK abzug, you might get to hire a black Saab convertible!) But she already seems to be an appealing an intriguing character. As Richard says, there is also something of Frances about her, especially perhaps in the fact that we see her in the club - Frances appeared to spend a fair bit of her time picking up men in drinking establishments!

abzug the point about Bodybag never changing or growing is a good one too! And as you say, there is something vaguely reassuring about that - she's solid as a rock is our Sylvia, and entirely predictable in her bigotry and her commitment to self-preservation! Her urging the other officers to join her in fleeing the prison, like rats leaving a sinking ship, was reminiscent of her urging the officers out on strike in the aftermath of Fenner's stabbing. Your point about the Us vs Them theme being turned on its head is highlighted by Sylvia's protest to the police officer that "You can't keep us prisoner!". The tables are turned - the jailers become the jailed!

Perhaps it is fitting, abzug, that Neil is felled by Legionnaire's Disease too, because so much of the way he presented himself publicly, including the sham marriage to Di, was reminiscent of a middle-aged white man!

Your comment that "Very few harmful incidents on Bad Girls are that innocuous in their cause. Usually when characters are harmed, it's through intentional (or at best negligent) action." is interesting, because I think increasingly we have been given a sense of the malevolence of Larkhall itself, as a building. Beginning with the very Gothic feel of the Christmas special - and even before that, in the build-up to Fenner's death, there was a sense of the supernatural in all those scenes down in the hanging cell. In the Christmas special, there was a sense that the prison itself was conspiring to bring about the mayhem - the flickering of the lights and the eventual failure of the electricity, Phyl's efforts to restore the power and Sylvia being felled by the very large rats etc. In this episode it is the prison, in the form of the dirty air-conditioning unit that is the killer. The sense of the building's malevolence is again enhanced by the flickering of the lights and the whole dark foreboding feel. And the building doesn't discriminate - the faulty air-conditioning unit is in Neil's office, Sylvia is knocked unconscious after trying to escape the rats - officers and prisoners are equally at risk, and they flee and stand firm together - it will be interesting to see how long this strange alliance holds out, in the episodes that follow!

I hadn't thought of this, but its true that both characters were introduced via a scene which focuses on their gaze on other women. It definitely can't be an accident. Very nice observation!

You've encapsulated this so well here. Thanks for pointing this out! I think its a theme which really got emphasized beginning in season 4, with all those scenes with Crystal and baby Zandra in the MBU (the image of the roaches is permanently imprinted on my brain, unfortunately). Crystal never seemed more miserable in prison than when she and her baby were being oppressed by the building itself in this way. And then certainly from the moment we started seeing floorplans and scenes in those basement tunnels at the end of season 5, the prison itself started seeming a very scary and harmful place indeed.