I forgot about Bad Girls last night :o

And being as I haven't got that particular DVD, I can't re-watch the ep in order to start this discussion. So I was just letting non-UK fans know that it was on, and I'd appreciate if someone started the discussion. I'll just add bits afterwards.

Thanks,
Lisa
x

Ugh, I feel like I'm dropping the ball here! I totally intended to watch the ep last night, but then I figured I could watch it tonight instead, and then I got to go to this concert, and it ran FAR later than I expected, and so now, here it is, midnight, and I really can't justify staying up to watch BG and post about it when I have to wake up in about 6 hours. Anyway, anyone else who's seen it recently should jump right in. What I'll say from memory is this is one of my favorite episodes. In particular, I love how now that Helen has won Nikki over by letting her off with a warning after the Shell attack, Helen truly starts her seduction. It's not until the end of the episode (the Juliet & Juliet scene in the library) that Nikki makes any sort of move on Helen. Everything before that was Helen seeking Nikki out, Helen flirting, Helen expressing interest. It's a brilliant reversal of the predatory lesbian in prison stereotype.

OK, just rewatched the ep. I've seen this particular episode many many times, and the Helen and Nikki scenes I've probably watched a hundred. OK, maybe not THAT many, but quite a lot. All of which makes it hard to come up with anything new, but I did notice a few things.

Of course, this is a brilliant Denny episode, and the first where we really start seeing what's going on beneath the surface for some of the less sympathetic characters. Of course, the relationship she develops with Jessie is at the forefront, and I thought it was interesting how the show portrayed this relationship almost as a romance. The running off to be together at the end, etc. Just another way the show demonstrates the variety of ways women can relate to eachother.

But I also really picked up on the growing friendship between Denny and Zandra. These two were at eachother's throats just a few episodes ago, but there's this lovely short scene where they are both lying in bed, late at night, crying. And each feeling the pure shittiness of her life, and offering the tiniest bit of support. Well, not support per se, but company. It was such a small, quiet moment, but it's the kind of thing which added such emotional texture in the first few seasons.

I love all the Helen and Nikki scenes, as I've mentioned a few times. In particular Nikki's sort of shyness or hesitation in most of the scenes, as Helen is reaching out and encouraging her. And then building up to the final scene where suddenly Nikki turns on the confidence and becomes oh so seductive. It's the first time she's reached out to Helen in any way--something has definitely shifted for her. (And it's cross edited with Denny trying to convince Jessie to run away together, which I think is another way they emphasize the "romance" of Jessie and Denny's relationship.)

Oh, I noticed a churchy moment! Or a Saint Helen moment, or whatever we're calling them. At the end of the scene in Helen's office, where she tells Nikki to think about taking Open University classes, there's the light shining in from the window, sort of bathing Helen in light, and then the MUSIC--omigod, it's very ecclesiastical. I mean, to me it sounds organ-like. More so than any of the other religious-feeling music we've discussed.

I had another thought about this episode. The theme of writing and reading as a means of building relationships really pervades the entire episode. First, you've got every single Helen & Nikki scene built around reading literature (Sophie's World, take an Open U course, here's the course catalogue and SW, and then Juliet & Juliet of course!). In all of these scenes, both characters are using literature to bond, to build a connection, and even to communicate subtle meanings (the whole "Oranges Are Not the Only Fruit" moment in particular).

For any scientifically-minded people, if you think about how waves are transmitted, there is the energy of the wave, and then the stuff that energy passes through (water, most obviously, but air can transmit waves which is how we listen to the radio or broadcast television). To me, literature is the material which is transmitting the waves of emotional energy between Helen and Nikki, if that image makes sense.

Then you've got Denny and Jessie beginning to connect and reach an understanding via the letter Jessie writes to Denny. (And don't forget Nikki is the one who suggested that Jessie write the letter!) But Denny can't read, which is a practical plot point, but also a metaphorical one--at this point in her life, Denny has very little ability to form any true emotional connections with anyone. It's only through this relationship with Jessie, and her learning to read in subsequent episodes, that Denny becomes the person who can fall in love with Shaz in S2.

And THEN, bring Zandra into the mix. First, one of the primary ways that Denny and Zandra's friendship develops is when Zandra reads Jessie's letters to Denny. Zandra becomes the conduit for the Jessie-Denny relationship to develop, and by being the conduit, the reader, she joins in the building of emotional connections herself. Second, this is the episode where Zandra sends the letter to Robin through Lorna Rose. So even in her own relationships, Zandra is using writing as the most direct form of communication with Robin (it can't be intercepted by his parents the way phone calls and officially-mailed letters can).

Speaking of officially-mailed vs delivered outside the acceptable channels, this makes me think there is a connection between Helen sneaking in Sophie's World for Nikki, and Zandra blackmailing Lorna into delivering the letter to Robin. Something about the most impactful written word communications happening outside official channels, thus making them unregulated, more freely communicative. You could include Jessie's letter to Denny in this as well, since she was able to write it (in the bathroom--the one private location in the entire wing!) and hand-deliver it.

Edited to add: Sorry, didn't think this was worth a post at the end of the thread, but I forgot to add to the theme of writing that in one of the first scenes in the ep, Helen demands written reports from Jim about the three weeks that she was away. It seems like a petty punishment (creating work for him, on a very short deadline), building another sort of relationship--this time an antagonistic one between Helen and Jim.

Wow, when you're on you're really ON. Lemme think & get back to you on this. :)

Oh good, I'm glad that you have both jumped in on this one.
There are so many interesting things happening, firstly the last time for ages that Nikki calls Helen 'Miss Stewart' as it's always a halfway mark of 'Hi.' I have always loved Helen's very endearing jest to Nikki of 'call yourself a feminist' which gently reminds them of what they have in common. While being interviewed by Helen, Nikki adopts this very gently irony which has gone such a long way from her cutting sarcasm way back when. There's a very touching moment when Nikki confesses that 'she's scared' when Helen suggests the OU, something that speaks volumes for intimacy and Helen remembering the book. In Nikki's world, delivering on promises means all the world to her.

What is superbly put, abzug, is the way that Nikki comes over confident when Helen enters her world and that Helen has been chasing Nikki. What I had never thought about before is the connection of sneaking in Sophie's World and Lorna delivering the note to Robin.

A very simple yet effective touch is Denny's first totally generous act of offering a tablet to Zandra with no thought of payback and shows how much she has humanised.

Likewise, I got the feeling that the scene where Nikki explains to Jessie just how to get through to Denny is the writer's way of showing how Nikki and Helen are so well matched with Helen trying to deal with the prisoners. It suggests that beneath the official layer of influence / authority there is an unnofficial one in Nikki.

The whole Denny storyline is superbly written and acted in the way Denny reacted when Jessie denied ever having children. How ironic is it that Shell turns on Jessie for not looking after Denny and what in reality happened to Shell in her own upbringing.

This was one of my fave eps of the series, and in the whole Nikki/Helen storyline. I loved how the writers had Helen seeking out Nikki. Like Abzug said, it's the opposite of what you would expect in a storyline of a gay prisoner falling for a straight Gov. But that's what made it work so well: it wasn't a stereotypical story.

I also loved Denny's storyline in this ep. It's in this ep that we learn about her background, and we actually understand why she feels the need to be around Shell, to some extent. She needs to feel safe, and Shell shows her interest so Denny sticks with her. I cried - and still do - when I watch this ep, when Shell addresses the whole Wing and tells everyone about Denny's childhood. I also liked this story because it softened Denny up and, as Richard said, when she gave Zandra a jelly, she seemed more humanised. I really enjoyed the interactions between Denny and Zandra in this ep. I couldn't believe how easy it was for them to slip into a friendship, but I was amazed to realise they had so much in common that is was so easy to slip into eachother's comfort zones.

Hey Abzug, I sent your comments to a friend who agreed (very much) & replied:

"Yes. And later Nikki and Helen manage to communicate by letter through Babs! This is not only outside official channels but forges the friendship between Nikki and Babs as well as maintaining the Helen-Nikki romance. Abzug has spotted something we missed, focused as we were on the specific books, missing the forest so to speak."

;)

There were a number of other noteworthy scenes

The scene of Jessie being led down to her cell walking past the rows of faces looking out through the gap in the cell door with strident guitar chords created a feeling of menace without the dramatic action/ car chase stuff and was Shed creating a lot from an everyday event.

I always liked the way both Shell and Bodybag were laughing at Jessie trying to eat and where Helen ticked Bodybag off. Shed's capacity for creating a visual scene shone with Helen comforting Jessie and an out of focus Nikki smiling approvingly in the background. It is interesting that she kept quiet where at one time she mightn't have done which was her gesture of respect to Helen- i.e. not putting Helen in a dilemma of responsibilities.

I found this little scene interesting as well. I think it was an important point to look at with N&H. It's showing that their friendship has reached that point where they respect eachother, and it's not a prison-issue, "Them & Us" situation between these two characters anymore, like it was in the first ep of the series.

This is nicely summarized, echoed, & then augmented in the 2-second hallucination Jesse has of the face on the wall; it's a child's face for a brief part of those seconds--I assume baby Denny; certainly the background voice at one point seems to be asking a child's question about abandonment--and is just subtle enough that the viewer can either catch it & appreciate it... or get it subliminally & still have it 'work'. In fact it's one of the best special effects Shed's ever pulled on this show, imo, just because it's so quiet.

AND, it's a wonderfully layered scene, because it shows us so much about Jessie, about Helen's feelings about the inmates, about Helen's feelings about her officiers, about Sylvia's feelings about the inmates. Oh, and by the way, it also gives us information about the growing connection between Helen and Nikki. I'm hard-pressed to think of a scene in ANY of the later seasons which attempts to communicate so much, but this kind of foreground/background work pervaded the first 2-3 seasons.

It is brilliantly layered. I like how you described that, Abzug. And I too can't think of another scene that gives us this much information about so many different characters. At least, not one as short and simple as this one.

Love this episode too ..great scenes with Denny and her mum think the actress who played her mum was excellent!! Brought out more what disfunctional lives most inmates have lived and why most of them are in prison ..they are the 'dregs' not because they are bad people but they've had no luck no stability no support and can't cope.

Loved the N&H interaction..even my daughter thought they were cheeky...oh and Helen gives Nikki's bum the once over ...lol

COOL B)

Oh yeah, I forgot about that one!! :lol1

Brilliant analysis, abzug. I love it.

This is one of my favorite episodes, so I've seen it way too many times. A few thoughts:

I love the scene in the garden between Helen and Nikki. You almost sense that Nikki has been lounging about in the garden waiting for Helen to arrive. She is sitting facing the entrance where Helen comes in, and Nikki asks Helen about her holiday, showing that she is aware Helen has been on holiday and perhaps that she has been waiting for her to return. Helen is so warm and open with Nikki, and you see that a light has turned on for Nikki. Nikki watches Helen carefully as she (without Helen seeming to suspect a thing) gathers information about Helen's personal life. I also love how Helen practically floats into the office with a lilt in her voice afterwards, asking about Nikki's file.

So more than three weeks have passed (uneventfully, according to Fenner) since Rachel's suicide. The last interaction we saw prior to this episode was Helen asking Nikki about Fenner's fan club. Despite her reluctance to be a grass, Nikki gave Helen some information, so the buildup to this scene in the garden is that Helen has shown Nikki she is on her side and the side of the other prisoners. It's interesting to observe how Helen's present tack for getting Nikki on her side is personal and warm as opposed to her earlier attempts--most notably her tough-on-drugs stance that only antagonized Nikki. Bringing in the book for Nikki is a huge change for Helen, I think. Sure, it's a harmless act, but for the wing governor to bring a book in for a prisoner shows that Helen has crossed a line. It's the second time (that I can think of) that she's broken a rule for Nikki; the first was when she met with Nikki in her office instead of having an adjudication.

So as Helen settles into her job and learns how things work, she realizes that strictly adhering to rules often causes more trouble. It's almost like rigidly sticking to the rules is the refuge of the incompetent or the clueless. But, and this is a big caveat, this depends on the character of the person who is or isn't following the rules. When the person is corrupt (Fenner), rule-breaking leads to disaster.

Then Helen flirts some more with Nikki... er, excuse me, asks Nikki to consider Open University. Nikki is skeptical and resigned to her fate, but once again, the soft approach definitely gets through to her. Nikki is normally all hard edges and defensiveness, but once Helen gets past this side of her, Nikki is putty in her hands.

Helen also puts her personal, flirtatious approach to work on Dominic, with similar results. Incidentally, I love Helen in the drinking scenes with Dominic. She is charming and comfortable, at ease with herself. Then, back at her flat, when Dominic tells her about Zandra's escape, her hard shell returns.

It's interesting when Sean returns to the flat. On this viewing, I found it comical that Sean shows up carrying a plant so huge you can't see his face or torso when he walks in. Is it too ridiculous to say that Helen doesn't have a boyfriend, she has a man-plant?

I also like how early in the episode, Helen helps Jessie in the servery when she falls down, and later in the episode, Nikki helps Jessie after Shell's diatribe against her. It shows how N&H have joined forces and how they have the same concerns. It also seems significant that Nikki suggests that Jessie talk to a screw about her problems; she has acquired a tiny bit of faith in the screws, it seems.

Then we have Helen again in pursuit of Nikki, bringing her gifts (the prospectus and the contraband book). This gives Nikki the courage to admit some vulnerability about the degree ("I'm scared.") And of course, there's the Juliet and Juliet scene in the library. I have to admit a bit of discomfort with Nikki's final line here: "You should give it a go sometime--don't know what you're missing." Granted, the context of Helen's dogged pursuit of Nikki is important. Even in this scene, Nikki gets up from her chair and Helen follows her. So Helen is clearly curious about Nikki's sexuality and wants something from Nikki here. I also like how Nikki says the line, hands Helen the book, and walks away. I do like how it parallels Helen giving a book to Nikki and shows their interchange of ideas/worlds. Still, the line goes a bit far, in my opinion. I'd be interested to hear other takes on this.

For some odd reason, I really enjoyed reading your summary on this ep.
I agree the " You should give it a go..." line is a bit cliched.
I still love the library scene it's one of my favourites! :)

Your piece is spot on, for some odd reason. I particularly like the idea of Nikki waiting (and positioning herself) for when Helen comes back from holiday and that Nikki returns the favour of the 'Oranges are not the only fruit" in the library scene for the book Helen gave her as I'd not thought of that before.

Mandana has said about the subtext, the reams of what went unsaid..
A lot of viewers wouldn't pick up on 'Oranges are not the Only Fruit' for instance.

I've always said that BG was watched on at least two levels..

The general viewer seeing it was good prime time drama while they relax with a coffee after a hard day at work.

Then the viewers who picked up on every small subtle hint or glimpse, who homed in on a tone of voice, a raised eyebrow or half smile, who spotted Helen briefly checking out Nikki's rear, who knew the significance of 'Oranges..'[not a book l like actually but thats by the by].

Oceans of meaning was portrayed that did not involved scripts..down to great story boarding, great direction and fantastic acting ...?

It is these fine nuances that made some aspects of BG so rich, have so much depth and ring true in so many ways imo

COOL B)

I've been thinking about this ever since you posted it, because it happens to be one of my FAVORITE Nikki lines, so it surprised me that someone else would be uncomfortable with it, or think it went too far. I realized I can't really defend the line if you think it's pushing too far, but I can explain what I like about it, and you can take it or leave it (although I don't think it will really change your mind about it...).

For me, there are three lines of Nikki's which spring to mind as Nikki at her most seductive:
1. S1E6 "You should try it sometime. Don't know what you're missing."
2. S2E7 H: "Nikki, can I talk to you?" N: "Anytime."
3. S2E11 "I'm going to show you a good time when I get out of this place."

I love all three of these moments because Mandana really turns on the sexiness factor--she doesn't hold back at all. She's talking about sex. And I love this because it shows Nikki's comfort, confidence and competence at sex and seduction. And I also love it because it leaves no room for ambiguity: Nikki is a lesbian because she loves making love to women. This isn't about good friends who love eachother. This is about hot, lustful SEX. And Nikki (and the writers, and Mandana) sets that up right from the get-go.

Although we all might differ on what Nikki-lines are more or less effective, Abzug, I definitely agree with you about this part of Nikki's appeal; that it's unapologetic and frank, and not open to misintepretation. Nikki's verbal stylings aren't always the most subtle, but given who she is--and who she's directing them too--this ah, seems to work for them.

Hmmm. I hadn't thought about it that way. I totally agree with you--I love how Nikki is frank about sex. I would add a few other lines to the examples you gave:

1. "Wanna go back to my place?" I think this is in season 2 somewhere, and I hope I've got the line right.

2. In response to Helen saying they're going to be seeing a lot more of each other. "In private, I hope."

3. "I never expected you to take a vow of celibacy." (S3, E16, to Trish)

I guess my discomfort with the "give it a go sometime" line has to do with when Nikki says it. She's attempting to seduce an ostensibly straight woman who has a boyfriend. Maybe I'm a bit sensitive to the predatory lesbian stereotype.

When I came out, I was in a similar situation to Helen--I had a boyfriend but found myself drawn to a lesbian I had met. But the difference was that I ended up doing all the seducing once I came to terms with my feelings. The object of my affections didn't have to do a damn thing and in fact discouraged me at first.

My point is that I wish there was more of Helen seducing Nikki throughout their relationship. I wish Helen were more frank about sex and expressed her desire to have sex with Nikki, instead of discouraging Nikki ("You're going to have to keep you hormones under control, Nikki"). Helen sort of expresses her desire in the Shit Happens episode but not too much otherwise (correct me if I'm wrong here). Because to me the thing that rings true is that once you realize you're attracted to a woman, no one needs to convince you of a thing.

Obviously, at this point, Helen is still in denial, so I don't know what I want Nikki to say to her. I'm warming up to the line though. It certainly is Nikki being blunt and unapologetic about who she is. And Helen DID ask.

FSOR, I completely agree with every example you mentioned as well. In fact, I can't believe I forgot them when I was writing my post! As for Helen being the pursuer, it's funny you should mention it because I think one of the interesting things about S1 is how much Helen pursues Nikki. Even in just this particular episode, there are four H&N scenes, and only in this last one does Nikki take any action towards Helen. Every scene before this one between the two of them showed Helen pursuing Nikki, often in a very flirtatious manner ("I won't tell if you don't"). For "professional" reasons, maybe, but still, she wanted Nikki on her side, and she went after it very actively.

As for Helen being the active one once the relationship becomes romantic, I'd say that the scene in her apartment when Nikki escapes shows Helen taking a very active role. In the broadcast version, she's the one who kisses Nikki and removes Nikki's shirt, not the other way around. And in the deleted scene version, she pushes Nikki onto the couch and gets on top. :) Not only that, when we see them in bed together later, Helen is holding Nikki, rather than Nikki holding Helen. I thought all these choices were very purposeful on the part of the directors and writers, because they managed to show Helen feeling very conflicted and trying to hold herself back, but then when she lets loose, she WANTS Nikki--Helen is on fire, no doubt about it.

Apologies: this post strays quite a bit off topic.

In terms of Nikki's expressions of desire, how could we have forgotten Nikki's line at the start of series 2: "I want to make love to you all night long. Is that serious enough?"

Yes, I agree with you that Helen is in hot pursuit of Nikki throughout series 1 and long before Nikki will give her the time of day. But the thing about this is that Helen really does have professional reasons for her actions. I want an expression of desire from Helen that is not ambiguous.

I thought of a huge moment when we see that Helen is sexually attracted to Nikki--the scene after their first kiss (S1E9) when we see Helen close the door to Nikki's cell and stand stunned in the hallway. I love this moment. But it's so short, and if you blink you miss it (much like the first kiss). Although I appreciate the subtlety with which their relationship is portrayed, sometimes I think it is too subtle. Also, in terms of the development of the relationship, Nikki doesn't even get to witness this moment, so she doesn't really know how Helen feels. Yes, Helen kisses her back, but the whole kiss is what, five seconds? It just seems like Nikki has so little to build her hopes from.

Perhaps I'm examining this so closely because I recently had the experience of forcing my g.f. to watch the first two series of BG. Her underwhelming response at the end of it was, "Yeah, it's a pretty good show, but I don't get why you're so obsessed with it. And I never really buy that Helen is all that attracted to Nikki." And as much as I sputter "but, but, but..." I can see her point about Helen (even though I disagree).

I agree with the examples you give of Helen taking an active role in their physical relationship, but you have to admit, they're not much, at least not compared to Nikki, who, in addition to all her expressions of desire, risked her life and spent $3,000 for the chance to spend one night with Helen. I understand that Helen has conflicts because of her professional life that Nikki does not. And that Helen is more uptight, etc.

Anyway, I suppose either it works for you or it doesn't. It does work for me, though I think that the ambiguity of Helen's feelings throughout the show is part of the reason why I never identify with her as much as I do with Nikki. She always seems to be a bit of an unknown quantity. Perhaps this is also the reason why I quite enjoyed series 3 when other fans are so lukewarm about it. I found Helen to be quite consistent in the third series compared with the previous two. I enjoyed seeing Helen and Nikki have some time apart to develop. I think it is often as interesting to see them apart as it is to see them together. But this is probably a topic best left for another thread...

Hi FSOR,

It might appear I'm quibbling with a few of your ideas below about timing, but it's to make a point so I hope you'll bear with....

As far as examining things closely... I've certainly invested a wanton amount of time in doing just that because I think the show (s1-3) merits it (& I enjoy doing it). Though your impressions of how fast a moment passes are of course valid for you and specific to each individual, I imagine different scenes make different impressions on various segments of the audience. But overall I have to say... look, there are only, what, 5 kisses here, 6? depending how you count; not a lot over 3 seasons. So first, either one buys the chemistry or not, & no amount of discussion is likely to change that. Iow it's not about screen-time but quality. The first kiss may be 5 seconds, maybe a bit more, I've no idea, but it's mission-critical for the storyline: Helen's entire course is set by & after that kiss.

To which I can only conclude: boy-howdy, musta been some kiss. I honestly think most people (here, anyway) are persuaded of that. Those noises Helen makes? (pretty brilliant acting, imo): they're inadvertent: they mean business. I don't feel the moment outside the cell is at all a blink-and-you-miss it thing. Even the dullest audience member who saw the show just once could come to only one conclusion: that kiss seriously shook her up. I mean, we can argue nuance til the cows come home but that's the bottom line. I suspect the people who don't think the actors sold the kiss are, basically, not fans. Or uh, not crazed fans like, er... some of us. 'hem.

I totally agree there are blink-and-you-miss-it moments throughout. That's a large part of the appeal for a viewer like myself: the subtlety of the performances, especially Lahbib's. So for example, it's entirely possible a large part of the audience, even perhaps lesbians, might have missed the flicker of Helen's eyes after the Potting Shed Incident, at the very end of the scene (right before fade-out) as they unwillingly rove back to the Offending Mammaries for just a second or two. That's subtle--and very fast. It's a major scene, there's a lot of emotional data to take in first time viewing it. I know from just my time here on the board a lot of people could not believe they didn't catch her eyeballing Nikki's ass the first time out (guilty). Those are all measures of interest and desire; again, we can debate their nuances, but they're there. Aware of them or not, they work on us. How an audience member ultimately views them and what conclusions they draw is up to them.

Well, I must say, ekny, I had to pull up the potting shed scene again after reading your post. I never saw Helen look back at Nikki's breasts. And upon rewatching the scene a few times, I'm still not convinced she did. She is looking directly at Nikki's face, then she does look down for a split second (though I can't conclude she is looking at Nikki's chest per se), and then right before fade-out she looks off to the side as if processing what has happened. At least that's how I read the scene.

I've definitely missed other subtle scenes until someone pointed them out to me. For example, when Helen arrives in the morning at the start of S1E8, I didn't realize that she was looking at Nikki and this is why she spills her coffee until I read it somewhere on this message board. It's difficult to see where someone is looking unless we have a camera behind the person as they look.

Anyway, I take your point about subtlety, and that's why I like this show. It's not the L Word, where the desire is explicit. And though I like the L Word (I've only seen the first 2 seasons), I like N&H more because of the length and complexity of the relationship. You don't watch N&H to see two women getting it on. You watch to see two people fall in love. That love infuses their 5-second kiss with more eroticism than an explicit love scene. And yes, I agree, the noises Helen makes are a huge part of what makes the scene successful (i.e. hot!)

I thought that that line coupled with how natural, at ease and comfortable with herself Nikki is when saying it is exactly the opposite of the predatory lesbian stereotype.
What is 'the predatory lesbian stereotype' exactly? Can somebody elaborate on that?
To me she says 'I love it, but I'm not going to convince anybody of it'. She puts the book on the shelves, not in Helen's hands. She's not predatory precisely because she's so comfortable with it that she doesn't need to force it on other people to validate it. She's not even trying to sell it to Helen. To Helen's curiosity she doesn't respond with 'yeah you should definitely try it, here have some'.
She doesn't do persuasion she just exists there as a living example of it. And she'll be a living example of it, regardless of whether Helen will try it or not. This puts Helen in a very comfortable position. She doesn't feel threatened, rushed.

edit: Nikki does put the book in Helen's hands. After Helen says "I'm not interested in women. Not that way, anyway". But By the very fact that she leaves the library room after saying 'you don't know what you're missing', she is not even being 'predatory' on Helen's potential curiosity. Or so I see it

I agree with your comments about how Nikki handles this. Nikki is frank and forthright, and then she walks away.
I think my reaction to this line is a very personal one and has to do with my fear of saying anything to a "straight" woman that could be construed as showing interest in her, even though "straight" women often have no problem flirting with a lesbian--as Helen does; see abzug's comment in the S1 Ep7 discussion. Part of the reason I'm fascinated with the character of Nikki Wade is that she is so comfortable with herself and doesn't restrict her self-expression out of some internalized homophobia.
As for the predatory lesbian stereotype, maybe someone else could define this. I meant the idea that lesbians are out to "convert" straight women.

FSOR, I know what you mean. With the exception of one, my whole life has been a series of relationships or flings or whatever with straight women (by which I mean women who had no gay experience before or after me). And I expect this to be the case in the future. So our lovely Nikki Wade had a few lessons to teach me. Yeah I know it's fiction and you need to have a Helen for it to work. But then again if a Helen is what you want, then that's the way to go.
Other than Legs in Foxfire Nikki is the only one that I want to take my hat off for. Nikki doesn't make excuses for her being a lesbian. She's not agressive about it either, she doesn't need to have it written all over the way she dresses or acts, but she definitely goes for what she wants. She doesn't settle with what society's norms might allow the world to give her. And if you want somebody like Helen than that is the only way.

I was thinking more about the predatory lesbian stereotype (i.e., that lesbians are sexually aggressive). Fenner and Shell use this to their advantage--they try to convince Rachel and Monica that Nikki is coming onto them (it works a bit with Rachel but not with Monica). The series 2 storyline between Nikki and Barbara explores this stereotype in more depth. But that's another thread.

on holiday for three weeks

makes me want to move to england and work for home office

i found this thread and thought i'd see if i could resurrect it for one observation.

speaking of blink and you might miss it, i'm not sure if i'm seeing things, but when helen is having a drink with dominic and she just finishes telling him how much the women like him, a woman walks by behind helen and it looks like helen turns around and briefly checks her out. anyone else notice?

No, I hadn't noticed but I checked it out and I totally see what you're referring to. Something catches her attention to look long enough for Dominic to attempt to follow her gaze.

If it was intentional, it's very subtle and well placed. Nice observation.

Omigod, you're totally right! I don't know how many times I watched this scene and I never noticed. How funny!

Wow, nice to have some fresh eyes around here!

Good eyes! It is very subtle, and you never know - could be purposeful, or maybe just coincedence that she looked when a woman walked past!

I just spent the day putting furniture together. You know, the flat-packed sort. :party And of course I kept thinking of Helen's non-vacation. She wasn't kidding when she said it wasn't much of a holiday. There was no reading time for me, though, unlike Helen with Sophie's World. Harry Potter is having to wait.

Off to put my feet up....