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Title: S1ep10 Discussion
Description: ITV3 - 07/November


Lisa289 - November 8, 2006 01:32 PM (GMT)
So, airing of the first series ended last night, with "Love Hurts" - a great finale.

First of all, I want to mention my favourite scene of this ep: the one where Monica says goodbye. Or rather, where Nikki gives Monica a piece of her mind. I absolutely love this scene, and Nikki's speech is so moving. I think this is one of the best scenes that we see Mandana do throughout the whole show.
But, alongside Nikki giving the speech, I also liked how Monica sort of recreated it in her speech to the press. She knew they'd be watching, and took the opportunity to re-emphasise what Niki had said, and show all the inmates how much she appreciates them.

Another aspect of this episode that I absolutely cannot watch enough times, is Yvonne! It's her first full episode, and boy does she make an impression! I love her rants with Sylvia, they're so comedic. Yvonne knows who she is, and what she wants. She's not going to stand down to anyone. Not even the Wing Governor. In her induction with Helen, she doesn't hold back on anything. Similarly, she takes everything in her stride with the Larkhall Tabernacle Gospel Choir. She does things her own way, not anybody elses. Which is a great story, because it's prison - you wouldn't expect prisoners to act in that way and go about things as much as they can in their own way.

Now, Helen is definitely one to look at in this ep. She seems so distant throughout the ep and does not confront things head-on. Now, this is not the first ep that she's been "unattached" to Sean, in particular. But in this ep, you can see that she's very "careerist" (which is nothing new, really - we already had that impression), but when Sean says he got a call from Simon, she immediately thinks of her boss, instead of her friends, Simon and Claire. Which makes me think that maybe Simon and Claire are more Sean's friends than hers, and she's not really that bothered about getting into Sean's "crowd".
Then you have the way she tries to deal with the previous kiss with Nikki. She tries to ignore it when she calls Nikki into her office. Then Nikki brings it up and she is forced to confront Nikki about the kiss. I think she actually handles this one quite badly. She places all the blame on Nikki, she actually makes it sound like assault (bear in mind, this is prior to Sean calling it assault - Sean doesn't even know at this point). Which brings me to the point at which she tells Sean. Why does she lie about how it happened? Is she saying it for her own piece of mind? Or is she testing Sean's reaction? Either way, she's still ignoring the actual facts. She approached Nikki that night, she sat closely to her and she momentarily responded to the kiss.
I think the only thing she handles remotely well in this episode is breaking up with Sean. She tries to go somewhere else but he won't listen, so she just blurts it out. He gives her no choice, really. But then, in her office, I get the sense that she's having second thoughts about calling off the wedding. You've got that moment where you think she's going to remove the ring, but she leaves it. And then she calls her flat. Well, she quickly sees she made the right choice when he turns up to completely humiliate her. But she still doesn't understand her own feelings and is not quite sure how and why she realised she doesn't love Sean.

richard - November 8, 2006 05:50 PM (GMT)
I absolutely agree with you lisa. There's so much going on in this episode.
for a start, Yvonne patents her unique approach in driving a coach and horses through the regulations - witness the Larkhall Tabernackle Choir- and she easily beats Bodybag in every verbal duel that comes up, craftily exploiting her hatred of Crystal's singing to get visiting put back. Her phrase immortal "I don't do scared" comes in with a battle of power with Shell.

The domestic scenes with Helen and Sean go from bad to worse. I've always felt with a wedding in the offing, Sean shows himself in his true colours in making a definite move to take over the relationship or else he was manipulating Helen into making some sort of reaction, possibly to come out with how she really feels. Instead, she opts for a passive aggressive attitude (understandably) which forces him to make the move. Why else does he casually agree for friends (his more than hers, I agree Lisa) to take over the flat without so much as a by your leave? The scene where she sort of tells him about Nikki is possibly the only way she can say in words "I think she's in love with me' and think over the words and also wind up Sean. There's a lot of scope for discussion here.

Nikki is pretty consistent at her appealingly tough and tender with saving Monica's life and also the next day. The scene in Helen's office is where she looks intensely at Helen who clings to her 'crusade spiel' and except at the end, refuses to look Nikki in the eye. It is noticable that Nikki calls Helen 'Miss."Her parting shot at being banged up shows her very interestingly acute grasp of 'official speak' before blowing it apart with her '....by kissing her."When Helen confronts Nikki in her cell, the incredible power of Nikki's protectiveness of Helen contrasts so sharply with what Helen has to come 'home' to. One of Shed's finest moment was the absolute writing gem of layering the 'one two three four' 'count in' of the Larkhall tabernackle Choir with Nikki and the Julies saving Monica's life.

One very interesting question is the public reaction to Sean burning his suit. It's clear that Fenner and Bodybag see this as Helen being humiliated. The prisoners appear to be shouting at Sean while Nikki can't believe her eyes and only at the end calls out 'Helen' and is seen smoking a cigarette with some satisfaction at Sean exiting the situation.

I absolutely agree with Lisa's description of the morning of the trial and everything that followed after and Mandana's incredible suppressed power of the delivery of Nikki's speech.

invisicoll - November 8, 2006 06:01 PM (GMT)
QUOTE
Lisa: But she still doesn't understand her own feelings and is not quite sure how and why she realised she doesn't love Sean.


You had me until here.

I think she's known for a long time that she doesn't love Sean, she just didn't know what she wanted to do about it. The night when Sean comes home and wants to go out to dinner (ep7, I think) and Helen kisses him to reassure him (and herself) -- the look on Helen's face after that kiss says it all. She knows that she doesn't feel a flicker of passion for him anymore. So what does she do? She ignores it. So she continues to tell Sean she'll marry him, even when her actions are saying something completely different. She's almost sleepwalking through her life at home. Sean wants to go out with friends so unenthusiastically she goes along. He's making out the guest list for the wedding and she unenthusiastically agrees to whatever he says about it. She's been going through the motions with him for a while. She doesn't have the energy to make a change until Sean goes to buy a wedding suit and she realizes she has to do something.

She does have that flicker of hesitancy in her office after she breaks it off but, again, I don't think that it's because she's confused about her feelings for Sean. Helen doesn't make a move without careful consideration. I think it's normal for her to be a bit reflective about the big decision she just made. She's going through the 'Oh god, did I do the right thing?' And then Sean shows up to show us all his true colors by burning the suit in the yard.

QUOTE
Lisa: Why does she lie about how it happened? Is she saying it for her own piece of mind? Or is she testing Sean's reaction?


She's testing herself. She hasn't gotten to talk to anyone about this, outside of her conversation with Nikki. She can't tell Sean that she went to a prisoner for comfort when she was having a bad day, so she changes the details of the story, but leaves the three most important items in: 1) she was kissed, 2) by Nikki Wade and 3) I think she's in love with me. She doesn't tell Sean while they are seated and having a conversation. She tells him on the fly and then drops it. She doesn't want to talk about it at length but she does want to give the encounter some validity by telling someone about it.

Lisa289 - November 8, 2006 06:01 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (richard @ Nov 8 2006, 05:50 PM)
The domestic scenes with Helen and Sean go from bad to worse. I've always felt with a wedding in the offing, Sean shows himself in his true colours in making a definite move to take over the relationship or else he was manipulating Helen into making some sort of reaction, possibly to come out with how she really feels.

I've never really looked at Sean becoming "controlling" here. But, thanks to this explanation, I'm starting to see it. Sean is growing increasingly clingy, and he's assuming Helen will agree to him on everything. Because they're getting married, he thinks that that's it: they are one couple, and Helen is no longer her own person.

QUOTE (richard)
It is noticable that Nikki calls Helen 'Miss."Her parting shot at being banged up shows her very interestingly acute grasp of 'official speak' before blowing it apart with her '....by kissing her."

I also noticed the use of the word "Miss" in this scene. They've recently kissed, but Nikki still knows that Helen is in a position of authority. It's as if she knows the situation must be difficult for Helen, but she continues to push Helen into admitting some sort of emotion.

QUOTE (richard)
One of Shed's finest moment was the absolute writing gem of layering the 'one two three four' 'count in' of the Larkhall tabernackle Choir with Nikki and the Julies saving Monica's life.

Oh, absolutely. I've always thought this sequencing was filmed amazingly. It directly cuts the comedic side of the ep (The singing) with the dramatic side of the ep (Monica's suicide attempt).



Lisa289 - November 8, 2006 06:09 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (invisicoll @ Nov 8 2006, 06:01 PM)
She's been going through the motions with him for a while.

Interesting. I suppose she has. Maybe I didn't explain that bit carefully enough.

For some odd reason - November 8, 2006 06:50 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (invisicoll @ Nov 8 2006, 01:01 PM)

She does have that flicker of hesitancy in her office after she breaks it off but, again, I don't think that it's because she's confused about her feelings for Sean.  Helen doesn't make a move without careful consideration.  I think it's normal for her to be a bit reflective about the big decision she just made.  She's going through the 'Oh god, did I do the right thing?'  And then Sean shows up to show us all his true colors by burning the suit in the yard.


It's interesting. I've never interpreted the scene in Helen's office where she plays with her ring as her having doubts about her decision. It's a reasonable interpretation though. I just thought of it as Helen thinking about what she's done and feeling bad/wanting to give Sean more of an explanation than her abrupt "I don't love you." She did want to go somewhere else to discuss it with him, after all. He just refused to listen--as though he didn't want to hear her explanation and possibly already knew what it was.



QUOTE
Lisa: Why does she lie about how it happened? Is she saying it for her own piece of mind? Or is she testing Sean's reaction?


QUOTE
She's testing herself.  She hasn't gotten to talk to anyone about this, outside of her conversation with Nikki.  She can't tell Sean that she went to a prisoner for comfort when she was having a bad day, so she changes the details of the story, but leaves the three most important items in:  1) she was kissed, 2) by Nikki Wade and 3) I think she's in love with me.  She doesn't tell Sean while they are seated and having a conversation.  She tells him on the fly and then drops it.  She doesn't want to talk about it at length but she does want to give the encounter some validity by telling someone about it.


Good points. Along the lines that Helen tells Sean this on the fly, she can't even look at him as she says it. She starts the conversation with him being in another room, and even when he enters the room, she has her back to him the whole time. She says it oh so casually, and then she wants to go. Suddenly Helen has regained enthusiasm for socializing with their friends. LOL.

richard - November 8, 2006 07:17 PM (GMT)
[QUOTE] She doesn't want to talk about it at length but she does want to give the encounter some validity by telling someone about it.- by invisicoll

This sums up the scene very neatly and also the way Helen talked from another room or not looking at Sean. She also brushed aside his reaction to him telling sean that Nikki "tried to kiss her" in an apparently blase fashion- not quite sure if I have got the right words. I also got the feeling that Helen was yelling 'come on' to Sean to go out for the meal, not in any enthusiasm for it but to reverse Sean's bossiness.

I like the points about when Helen was back in her office and trying to phone Sean.

Lisa289 - November 8, 2006 08:15 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (For some odd reason @ Nov 8 2006, 06:50 PM)
I've never interpreted the scene in Helen's office where she plays with her ring as her having doubts about her decision. It's a reasonable interpretation though.



When I first watched this ep, I thought this was going to be the dramatic moment in which she removes the ring, finalising her decision. So, when she doesn't remove the ring, her decision doesn't seem finalised. Just my viewpoint on this scene.


QUOTE (FSOR)
Along the lines that Helen tells Sean this on the fly, she can't even look at him as she says it. She starts the conversation with him being in another room, and even when he enters the room, she has her back to him the whole time.

I also think this is an interesting point. And I suppose it clears the question of why she did it. She's not even concentrating on Sean's reaction; she's more focused on her own reaction.


invisicoll - November 8, 2006 08:19 PM (GMT)
QUOTE
FSOR: I just thought of it as Helen thinking about what she's done and feeling bad/wanting to give Sean more of an explanation than her abrupt "I don't love you."


I agree with that too. It's likely that she had a lot of things running through her head at that moment.

Lisa289 - November 8, 2006 08:22 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (invisicoll @ Nov 8 2006, 08:19 PM)
It's likely that she had a lot of things running through her head at that moment.

Very likely. And, like FSOR said, maybe she feels guilty about ending it so abruptly - and that's why she tries ringing the flat: to apologise properly. But, to me, she's worrying over nothing. She shouldn't feel guilty becasue she didn't choose to end it like that: he pushed her to it. She originally wanted to go elsewhere and talk but he wouldn't allow it. It's all Sean's fault really. :rolleyes:

richard - November 8, 2006 09:10 PM (GMT)
Definitely agree with Lisa's post. She said repeatedly that she wanted to go someplace and talk and he was fixated (or pretended to be fixated) on buying the suit and forced her
It's interesting when he first proposed that he said (on more than one occasion) that she could back out of marriage if she wanted to and when she finally did so, he reacted totally differently.
I agree with Lisa also that when she talked about Nikki to Sean, she was measuring how (parts of) it sounded and how it felt.

There's an interesting connection between Nikki finally working out what Monica was up to and a scene in the previous episode when Monica was saying "To think that I shall be leaving this all behind me" and Nikki says "I thought there was something you weren't telling me "(just before the kiss).

Another interesting episode was when Helen came into the cell where the Julies, Nikki and Monica and Helen was smiling at what appeared to be a friendly get together and then sensed there was something wrong- wasn't sure if it was sensing Nikki's evasive manner or a very ill looking Monica or both.

Lisa289 - November 8, 2006 09:26 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (richard @ Nov 8 2006, 09:10 PM)
It's interesting when he first proposed that he said (on more than one occasion) that she could back out of marriage if she wanted to and when she finally did so, he reacted totally differently.



That is interesting. Maybe he was positive that she wasn't going to back out. Maybe not. But seeing as she'd declined all the previous offers of calling off the wedding, I can see why he was so surprised - shocked, even - when she finally did break up with him. The thought going through his head was probably, "I gave her lots of opportunities, why is she only telling me this now?"
Listen to me - I'm starting to feel sorry for the guy!! :o


QUOTE (richard)
There's an interesting connection between Nikki finally working out what Monica was up to and a scene in the previous episode when Monica was saying "To think that I shall be leaving this all behind me" and Nikki says "I thought there was something you weren't telling me "(just before the kiss).

I agree, this connection is interesting. But to be fair to Minica, she wasn't not telling Nikki anything, really. "I shall soon leave it all behind". This is true: she'll leave it all behind because she'll be dead. She's telling Nikki the truth, but just not telling Nikki all the facts. But that's in ep9, so maybe I shouldn't really go into that here.


QUOTE (richard)
Another interesting episode was when Helen came into the cell where the Julies, Nikki and Monica and Helen was smiling at what appeared to be a friendly get together and then sensed there was something wrong- wasn't sure if it was sensing Nikki's evasive manner or a very ill looking Monica or both.

I've often wondered something about this scene: the part where Helen finds out Monica has been sick and views the toilet bowl. This bit I completely understand: she should have been notified if a prisoner was unwell. Then she looks disappointed, angry even. And this is the bit I'm a bit stuck on: is her reaction directed at Nikki more than the Julies? You've seen where Helen's standing, where Nikki is sitting and where the Julies are sitting. To me, Helen's gaze is upon Nikki at the end of this scene.
That brings me to the next point: Helen going into Nikki's cell afterwards. Why doesn't she question the Julies about Monica's OD? It's as if she wants to be in a confrontation with Nikki. Either that or she places - once again - all the blame on Nikki. Maybe she assumed that Nikki was the one to decide not to tell anyone and pushed the Julies into keep quiet about it.


ekny - November 8, 2006 10:07 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Lisa289 @ Nov 8 2006, 05:26 PM)
Helen going into Nikki's cell afterwards. Why doesn't she question the Julies about Monica's OD? It's as if she wants to be in a confrontation with Nikki. Either that or she places - once again - all the blame on Nikki. Maybe she assumed that Nikki was the one to decide not to tell anyone and pushed the Julies into keep quiet about it.

I think you've got it with the latter idea. Stand where Helen is standing & imagine you're gazing on this scene with Nikki & the two Julies. The thought "natural leader" wouldn't exactly flash first through your head when eyeballing the two Julies, would it? From the first episode on, Helen's made a logical observation--Nikki's a born leader--followed by a somewhat instinctive but extremely accurate assumption--that basically, save for circumstances... Nikki is also her peer. A lot of H's decisions are based on the idea that a leadership role will fall to Nikki regardless N wants it or not (which is also correct), so might as well see if some headway can't be made there. (How Helen rationalizes her feelings underneath all this Professional stuff is another story of course. ;) ) So in terms of taking responsibility, of course Helen's appalled, because all she can see is the terrible risk to Monica.

Ironically, neither one of them is thinking of themselves in what leads up to Helen entering N's cell to confront her. Nikki, as we know--and as she so informs Helen--did it for Helen: specifically, to save her career. Helen's not thinking about her career at all, only of what could have happened had Monica died without even an attempt at trying to get her to the doctor, and trying to understand what could possibly have motivated Nikki to take such a decision into her own hands. Perfect.

abzug - November 8, 2006 11:24 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (ekny @ Nov 8 2006, 05:07 PM)
Helen's not thinking about her career at all, only of what could have happened had Monica died without even an attempt at trying to get her to the doctor, and trying to understand what could possibly have motivated Nikki to take such a decision into her own hands. Perfect.

I'm not so sure about that. I do think Helen is sincerely worried for Monica's life and well-being. But I think the career stuff is in her mind as well. How could it not be? Maybe not in the "Omigod I'm going to get fired" kind of way. But in the "That's it, I'm completely incomptetent at running this prison and now it's apparent to everyone including me."

I'd also say that not only does Helen look to Nikki because of Nikki's innate leadership qualities, but also because Nikki is the one she has a personal relationship with. It's that simple--it's personal. Nikki is the one she expects to "behave" to not cause problems on the wing, to do the right thing by Helen. She doesn't expect that of the Julies--they don't have any personal relationship or obligation to her. She can't look them in the eye and say "Tell me the truth about what happened" and expect that they'd care to do so. With Nikki, she can.

Great posts from everyone. I've really enjoyed reading this discussion today, particularly the varied viewpoints on Helen's thoughts when she tries to call Sean after dumping him, and what she's trying to accomplish when she tells him about Nikki. I haven't rewatched the ep yet, but I plan to do so tonight, so I may post again later.

abzug - November 9, 2006 03:30 AM (GMT)
I just finished rewatching the episode. It was good having just read everyone's reactions and then getting to see it myself with everyone's interpretations in mind. So many of the scenes can be read in so many ways, primarily because of how complicated the human mind and human heart are, and this episode in particular captures all of those complexities.

QUOTE (Lisa289)
I think she actually handles this one quite badly. She places all the blame on Nikki, she actually makes it sound like assault

I did have a thought about this scene, the one in Helen's office where Helen & Nikki talk about the kiss. The words Helen uses are: "You had no right taking advantage of me." I didn't interpret this as Helen placing blame on Nikki, or suggesting Nikki assaulted her. I think it's important that she doesn't say "You had no right to kiss me" or "I hated kissing you, it was horrible." Instead, she accuses Nikki of "taking advantage"--which is really an emotional thing, not a physical one. It contains the implication that Helen was in an emotionally weak state, and that Nikki knew she was in such a state, AND, most importantly, that Helen knew that Nikki knew. Which is all a roundabout way of saying that Helen is really saying something like this: "I made myself emotionally vulnerable to you because I thought I could trust you, and instead you took me in a moment when my better judgment wasn't in control and you got me to do something I never would have let myself do otherwise."

My point being, she NEVER says that she didn't want to kiss Nikki, and that is really significant. She knows she's wanted to kiss Nikki for a while now, and Nikki knows this as well. Otherwise why should Nikki have restrained herself from taking advantage? If Helen had no interest, there would have been no advantage to be taken, and both of them know this.

Obeying the Rules

You know me and episode themes, and while this episode isn't chock full of them exactly, there is a theme which runs throughout the episode, which I found really interesting. It has to do with obeying the rules of prison. The preoccupation in this episode, it seems to me, is the ways that people manage to do what they want, and get what they want, even within the letter of the law in Larkhall.

The first mention of it is in the scene between Helen & Nikki with the whole "Rule 47" bit that we love to quote. The whole way that Nikki quotes this, which I think has been mentioned already in this thread, is of someone quoting chapter and verse, someone who knows the "scriptures" well, and still chooses to ignore their precepts when she wishes. But more importantly, we know that Nikki didn't really break this rule--she didn't disrespect the Wing Gov; if anything, she did the opposite, showing Helen deep love and respect in Helen's moment of need.

Then we've got the whole guitars business. Crystal insists that she's not breaking any rules by playing, and Yvonne jumps on this loophole with the whole tabernacle choir and guitar scheme. Yvonne is particularly interesting this way, because everyone is always quoting the rules to her (Bodybag about giving away cigarettes, Helen in the induction scene which is ALL about going over the rules), but Yvonne is one to understand the rules and use them to her advantage. In this case, for a political protest.

The thing that makes this particularly interesting is that those in power (Helen, the screws) have no recourse against Yvonne, because if she doesn't violate the rules, they have no power over her. Their hands are tied by the rules almost as much as the prisoners are confined by them. This particularly comes into play for Helen, given her growing emotional attachment to Nikki, and she spends the next 13 episodes trying to find a way to maintain that emotional attachment within the rulebook.

Other Little Tidbits

There's a little churchy imagery moment, when Helen and Monica leave to go to Monica's appeal, they walk down a hallway, through all these locked gates, and into the light at the end. Very heavenly symbolism, don't ya think?

Did anyone notice how frequently Helen looks down in this episode? She'll be standing and talking to someone, or walking along, and she'll kind of bow her head and look at the ground. I don't know if she did this all along in S1 and I just noticed it now, or if it's supposed to reflect her lack of certainty, relative to her confidence that she knew right and wrong from earlier in the season. Or her being beaten down by everyone and everything, including herself. A kind of imposed humility. But I don't think it's something she did in S2 and later, when she sort of comes into her own emotionally, and has more confidence in making her way in the world. If that makes sense?

richard - November 9, 2006 05:55 PM (GMT)
I've been thinking all day about Helen confronting Nikki about Monica's overdose. I'm open to argument on this but I read Helen's attitude as "why didn't you play things by the book and report Monica's overdose to the nearest prison officer and not take chances?" In her mindset of basically following rules and also of not covering things up as Fenner does, Monica's health was what she was exclusively focussing on. This is ekny's position and I think she's right.

Nikki's reply was , yes, I was looking after Monica's life and simultaneously ensuring that Helen wouldn't carry the can for a reported overdose (whether fatal or not). Helen's position couldn't have stood that happening and it is likely Nikki knew this.

You can see Nikki's mind at the time of the overdose working on overtime balencing the odds either way and opting to report it just before Monica was on the point of being sick and changed her mind back again.

The next day, Nikki was a few steps ahead of the game from Helen at this point. What is really appealing about Nikki is how incredibly protective she is of Helen once she knew that Helen was for real and that she was up against the old boy network.' That kicks in from time of the Guardian article onwards alongside the more complicated stuff of the potting shed incident, etc. At the moment of Nikki saying "I did it to protect you' really took Helen aback and meant the end of any future with Sean- it was just waiting to unravel.

Helen's words to Nikki about Monica that 'she was grateful' to Nikki vastly understated her feelings for what Nikki had done and, yes, I can see Nikki easily as Helen's peer from when she enlisted Nikki's help in talking to Monica and also as a born leader.

I like Abzug's points about the 'taking advantage' line and also the theme of rules which really explore the themes very well.

abzug - November 9, 2006 06:55 PM (GMT)
I've been thinking about Helen's feelings about Monica's overdose as well. I posted my alternative interpretation to ekny's idea before I had rewatched the ep, and when I rewatched the ep, I really did start seeing it the other way. I mean, we have no idea what is truly going on in Helen's head, but she gives no indication that she's thinking of her career at all. As Richard points out, that comes solely from Nikki. So I've revised my opinion on this one, and now agree with ekny and Richard. :)

I do think this represents some sort of shift with Helen, though, away from caring primarily about her professional ambitions and secondarily about the women in the prison. Now she cares primarily about the women in the prison and secondarily about her professional ambitions. I'd say this is due to two factors:
1. The obstacles she faces when she battles against Jim and Stubby. By this point they are feeling pretty insurmountable to her.
2. Starting from the potting shed, I think a switch is flipped inside Helen, a switch which opens up the possibility that she can relate to the prisoners (specifically Nikki, but also Monica, of course) as a human being, not as wing gov. Then when Spencer dies, it gives Helen a way to channel her emotional, caring impulses which have been awakened by Nikki.

On a completely unrelated topic, I forgot to mention Shell, who is brilliant in this episode. There's this scene where she and Denny are eating and Shell is complaining that she's not back on enhanced even though she got Lorna caught for bringing drugs in. And Denny points out that they were Shell's drugs that had been planted on Lorna, and Shell dismisses the importance of this point. It's this incredible example of the twisted way Shell's mind works. She really doesn't think she's lying, and she doesn't see the absurdity of her taking the moral highground for Lorna when she's the one who set Lorna up--that Lorna wasn't even a drug dealer. She's like convinced herself of the story she's told Helen, to the point that she can't tell the difference between reality and the version she invented anymore. Although I have no real experience in such matters, it seems to me that this is pretty typical of sociopathic people, and I think the show does an incredible job with this character in demonstrating the feelings, motivations and thoughts which drive a sociopath.

ekny - November 9, 2006 07:01 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (richard @ Nov 9 2006, 01:55 PM)
The next day, Nikki was a few steps ahead of the game from Helen at this point. What is really appealing about Nikki is how incredibly protective she is of Helen once she knew that Helen was for real and that she was up against the old boy network.'  That kicks in from time of the Guardian article onwards alongside the more complicated stuff of the potting shed incident, etc. At the moment of Nikki saying "I did it to protect you' really took Helen aback and meant the end of any future with Sean- it was just waiting to unravel. [...]

I like Abzug's points about the 'taking advantage' line

Ditto on Abzug's Taking Advantage gloss, that was really nicely put, A. And R, I agree as well with your nice summation around this scene, the idea that from the moment N says the bit about protecting Helen, that's the nail in Sean's coffin. There's no longer anything to compare between the two; here's Sean at home barely listening to Helen, & H barely communicating with him, this ever-widening gap: the wedding day looming larger & closer, & their distance from each other growing just as quickly, and here's Nikki (of all people), condemned for manslaughter, no reason to be anything other than a depressed pile of rags in a corner, paying such close attention to Helen, right there to step in as needed when H's off-scene, it's shocking, that moment to Helen, and I think others have also mentioned, in its own way, more powerful than the kiss. Attraction is one thing, but this is another order of gesture entirely.

badgirlnuts - November 9, 2006 07:19 PM (GMT)
Richard Quote,"At the moment of Nikki saying "I did it to protect you' really took Helen aback and meant the end of any future with Sean- it was just waiting to unravel."
I agree with you, Richard. You know, when Helen asked Nikki, " What were you thinking?" and Nikki standing there looking tall and desirable says,"You!, I did it to protect you." With that line, which was so heartfelt, Nikki had unknowingly sort of won Helen over. :) And Sean had become, Sean who?
Also concerning the marriage proposal of Sean, it was not a declaration of love but I want to marry you because you'll make a good mother! No wonder Helen was not so enthused about it.
I know majority of you thought, Nikki's so called "speech" to Monica was admirable,but don't y'all also agree it was a bit OTT?

Texex - November 9, 2006 07:48 PM (GMT)
"I made myself emotionally vulnerable to you because I thought I could trust you, and instead you took me in a moment when my better judgment wasn't in control and you got me to do something I never would have let myself do otherwise."

Wow, thanks for that. I've struggled with that scene and couldn't wrap my head around what Helen meant by taking advantage because my thought was she wanted to be kissed. What I was forgetting is that Helen has "rules." Brilliant.

richard - November 9, 2006 07:53 PM (GMT)
I very much like Abzug's notion of Helen's emotional, caring impulses being awoken- the scene where Helen tucks Monica into bed most certainly backs that one up - and the whole idea of a shift in emphasis is convincing. Ekny brings out very nicely the emotional power of Nikki protecting Helen in relation to the kiss and the point is very well made as to Nikki's nominal status is as a prisoner. If that is overlooked, just how this because how powerful an impression Nikki has made in the mind of the viewer.

The study of Shell is a useful one which I agree with in her dissociated way of thinking. It is interesting how readily Shell dumps her 'Christianity' either as a cynical move when her 'conversion' ceases to be useful or, alternatively, to dump it if it didn't get immediate results.

The Nikki's speech to Monica (together with Monica's after the appeal hearing) really drew most of the threads together of what BG was about. There was an understated power about the whole speech that was utterly convincing and, typical Nikki, she talked of herself the very last. What is interesting is Mandana's strong memory of it and her recent description of it "that she (Nikki) could still be annoyed and angry and compassionate and understanding at the same time."

abzug - November 9, 2006 08:03 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (badgirlnuts @ Nov 9 2006, 02:19 PM)
I know majority of you thought, Nikki's so called "speech" to Monica was admirable,but don't y'all also agree it was a bit OTT?

I've always found Nikki's speech to Monica and then Monica's speech outside the prison both a bit OTT. However, I understand why they put those speeches in the show, and in such an emphatic way. They really wanted to drive home some of the themes they had been dramatizing all season: about prison, it's ineffectiveness, in fact its harmfulness. For those of us who have been paying attention, it feels like we're being hit over the head. But for those who have been watching less attentively, it's a reminder of the show's political message.

QUOTE (ekny)
the idea that from the moment N says the bit about protecting Helen, that's the nail in Sean's coffin....Attraction is one thing, but this is another order of gesture entirely.

Totally. I love the way Ann and Chad put this in the episode commentary. They say something like "This is when Helen knows she's done for." I think they even say explicitly that this is when Helen realizes Nikki is in love with her, although I haven't watched the commentary recently enough to be sure.

QUOTE (richard)
It is interesting how readily Shell dumps her 'Christianity' either as a cynical move when her 'conversion' ceases to be useful or, alternatively, to dump it if it didn't get immediate results.

I always thought Shell's Christianity was a complete ploy, that there was no true belief (even momentary) behind it. What amazed me about that whole scheme of Shell's was how patient she had to be, really pretending to be religiously observant, to have quit drugs, etc, for quite a long period of time, until she gets Lorna and Crystal to trust her. It was very calculating in a very strategic way. The only other time Shell engages in a similar scheme is the whole business exposing Fenner to his wife, Marilyn. But otherwise she always seems to be reactive and opportunistic.

For some odd reason - November 10, 2006 04:09 AM (GMT)

I like everyone's comments about Nikki's state of mind. I think what is so moving about the scene with Monica's overdose is that Nikki simply took charge of the situation. She asked for help from the Julies, but they looked to her to decide what to do. Nikki didn't want Helen to know about it at all.

I remember when I first watched this episode, I thought, Jesus, Nikki, why don't you go tell the screws! Why are you trying to handle this yourself? So when Helen gets the truth out of Nikki, I was just as surprised as Helen was. It made the scene very powerful for me. In fact, I stopped the DVD so the impact of it could sink in (plus I wanted to prolong the last episode as long as possible because I didn't yet have access to the 2nd series).

This is a situation that speaks volumes about Nikki's character. She is calm, assertive, decisive, and she devises a strategy that helps Monica while protecting Helen. And she does all this without expecting anyone to thank her. Whatever Nikki's flaws, she's the person you want on your side in a crisis.

Nikki looks everywhere but at Helen when Helen appears in Monica's cell. Helen has to follow her back to her cell and demand to know Nikki's motivations. When she hears them, Helen is shocked.

I agree that this is more powerful than the kiss in terms of getting to Helen because it forces Helen to rethink what love is. Helen sees this courageous, selfless, loving act from Nikki, and nothing Sean has to offer can compare. I don't think that Helen thinks at this point that she can be with Nikki; she just sees that she can no longer be with Sean. He just doesn't have a deep passion and determination for life or for Helen. He doesn't surprise her. His love is simple and lifeless by comparison to Nikki's.


orlando - November 10, 2006 02:08 PM (GMT)
Great posts everyone! And I'd like to get in line to thank Abzug for her enlightened interpretation of the whole taking advantage issue.

I'm sure this must be old news to most of you, but I only just discovered this and had a bit of a eureka moment. While we see Helen and Monika embracing on the TV screen in Larkhall, we also see Nikki's reflection on that TV screen, which I thought was rather brilliant. Then I remembered that on the DVD commentary track to E10 they said something like, that in a way Helen was finally (emotionally) embracing Nikki while she physically embraced Monika outside the court of appeals. It's a moment when both women have let their guards down (Nikki is crying in public, which we know is not like her), and I think that it's at this point, Helen consciously decides she can't marry Sean.

user posted image

richard - November 10, 2006 04:53 PM (GMT)
There isn't much I can add on these last posts except to add to Abzug's post about Shell. It was interesting when Shell first announced that she was going to reform (or a bit of brown nosing as Fenner cynically put it) that Fenner couldn't work out what Shell was up to.

As an aside, this fascinating series of posts started when Series 1 was being televised. I was wondering about floating the idea of carrying this on into Series 2, where hopefully most if not all people have got their DVDs or videos. What do you all think?

abzug - November 10, 2006 05:29 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (richard @ Nov 10 2006, 11:53 AM)
As an aside, this fascinating series of posts started when Series 1 was being televised. I was wondering about floating the idea of carrying this on into Series 2, where hopefully most if not all people have got their DVDs or videos. What do you all think?

Well, of course you know I'm up for it! But I heard rumor from someone in the UK that they are planning on continuing the ITV3 reruns into S2, so we can stay on our weekly schedule that way (although in truth I think only a handful of people are actually watching the eps on ITV3 rather than dvd!).

QUOTE (Richard)
Fenner couldn't work out what Shell was up to.

Thanks for bringing up Fenner again, because I think his behavior in this last episode is so significant. Just as everyone else is trying to work the rules to their own advantage (even Shell, in a way, with all her scheming to bring Lorna down in S9), Fenner's the one who has no regard for the rules whatsoever. He does what he wants, what will benefit him the most. And in the end, he's the most powerful character throughout the seasons he is on the show. Kind of a depressing message about the effectiveness of being an anti-social sociopath, isn't it?

Oh, and Orlando, I also love that moment with the television screen at the end of S1. It's beautifully framed and lit, and it's incredibly emotional. It's interesting to think this might be when Helen decided she had to dump Sean. I always thought it came earlier, shortly after she found out that Nikki was protecting her when she saved Monica from the overdose, but you're right that she keeps putting it off and putting it off, and then something happens between when she leaves the apartment in the morning and agrees to meet Sean to buy the suit, and when she actually meets him at the store, which means she can't put it off for one more second.

richard - November 10, 2006 07:22 PM (GMT)
I'll fess up, Abzug, to working off the DVDs except for one week when I was on holiday. :) See what others think.
It was a bit slipshod of me to meglect Orlando's post. It is very interesting how screen caps pick out things that can be missed, like Helen staring up at Nikki in her cell and spilling her coffee. In this case, I didn't spot Nikki's face reflected off the TV screen which adds a little something to the ordinary reversed perspective. What is absolutely brilliant about this series is that Shed aren't afraid to appeal to the intelligence.

Lisa289 - November 10, 2006 11:12 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (abzug @ Nov 10 2006, 05:29 PM)
I heard rumor from someone in the UK that they are planning on continuing the ITV3 reruns into S2, so we can stay on our weekly schedule that way

I heard that they are as well, but I haven't looked into it yet looked forward on my Sky planner. Either way, count me in to continue the discussions - especially as series2 is my fave series :)

xanalex - November 11, 2006 05:30 AM (GMT)
I'm curious about the scene where Helen is in her office after having broken up with Sean.
When the phone rang and Helen snatched it up, fully expecting it to be Sean only to be informed that he was at Larkhall and had all ready gone through to the gardening area--I think she was terrified that Sean had turned up to harm Nikki in some way.
Sean knew that a) Helen was "obsessed" with Nikki; B) that Nikki had "tried to kiss" Helen and "thought she was in love" with Helen, and c) Helen had just broken off the engagement because she didn't love him.
If he wanted to talk to her, convince her that she'd made a mistake, Sean would've come to Helen's office. That he got through the gate on pretense and went to an area where he knew Nikki spent a lot of time scared Helen. She's surprised at first and then a split second later, worried.

Other than that, love how fallible and cowardly Helen can be. It's rare to see a television character who ISN'T always noble or DOESN'T always do the best thing. Instead, she procrastinates and generally makes things miserable for herself and those around her. Fascinating stuff.

Lisa289 - November 11, 2006 02:46 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (xanalex @ Nov 11 2006, 05:30 AM)
I think she was terrified that Sean had turned up to harm Nikki in some way.

I've never thought of it like that before. I always thought that she was just surprised that Sean had arrived and that he'd gone straight through to the gardens. Even more so, the gate officer assumed Helen had asked Sean to be there, so Helen knew that he was obviously going to do something wrong. But harm Nikki? I don't know.

COOL - November 11, 2006 02:54 PM (GMT)
According to the Radio Times and my Freeview guide BG is on next Wednesday at 00.10 to 01.15 am ..no details available but l assume it will be BG2 Ep 1

Lisa289 - November 11, 2006 02:59 PM (GMT)
Thanks, COOL. They're changing it to Wednesday?!? Well I think I'll have to stop watching and just watch the DVDs because I have to be up at like 7am on a Thursday.

COOL - November 11, 2006 06:45 PM (GMT)
Its on just after midnight Tuesday IE very early Wednesday morning...so you can still have an early night Wednesday.

Lisa289 - November 11, 2006 09:10 PM (GMT)
Ahh right, I wasn't thinking when I read that! Thanks, COOL!

richard - November 11, 2006 09:50 PM (GMT)
Very good point, xanalex. It's one of those scenes you look back retrospectively and know that Sean acted to deliverately humiliate Helen in front of everyone in the prison- incidentally without saying a word. I hadn't thought in terms of what Helen thought without the benefit of hindsight. I'm not sure if Helen would think in terms of specifics, of setting out to harm Nikki, not being someone that would risk his own neck but I'm open to argument on this. It's probably something vaguer than this, more like a gut instinct telling her that there was danger and really not knowing what he might be getting up to.

xanalex - November 12, 2006 03:30 AM (GMT)
I've got the first three seasons on DVD and I have to admit, if I'd been watching the episodes on television I probably wouldn't have dissected Helen's reaction. The ability to reverse and watch again is critical--and probably also leads to a lot of over-interpretation!




Lisa289 - November 12, 2006 01:15 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (xanalex @ Nov 12 2006, 03:30 AM)
The ability to reverse and watch again is critical--and probably also leads to a lot of over-interpretation!

I agree! It's a bad habit of mine. One episode, that should last about 45mins on DVD, can last over an hour when I watch it because of all the re-winding I do!

richard - November 13, 2006 06:03 PM (GMT)
I admit that I hadn't watched the series that recently but there are very strong impressions left when I had watched them since I saw them transmitted but they do pay fresh examination, sort of like, 'pretend I haven't seen the programme before " (as far as that is possible) and, in particular, checking out other people's take on it which is particularly rewarding and enlightening.

Nikkhele - November 14, 2006 03:59 PM (GMT)
I'd like to add a bit of a different interpretation to a few points in this episode. I'm going out on a limb with some of them ;)

When Helen finds out why Nikki didn't report Monica's overdose, I think she not only realized that Nikki is in love with her, but that Nikki's "confession" mirrors back to Helen what she herself is feeling about Nikki. IOW, she realizes that she is in love with Nikki too.

I say this because as soon as she gets home, she tells Sean that lie about Nikki kissing her. When she said, "I think she's in love with me," I think not only was she trying to see how that sounded out loud, but in her head, she was saying, "I think I'm in love with her." IOW, the opposite of what she was actually saying. I just think Helen is one of these people whose wires frequently get crossed, especially during that time in her life. When I first watched this scene, for me, there was almost like a cartoon bubble over Helen's head projecting the opposite of what she was thinking versus what she said. I might be way off here, but I remember when I watched that scene the first time, I'm going "what the f**k!" I thought she was going to tell Sean!

My point is, I think the reason Helen couldn't marry Sean is because she realized she was in love with Nikki. When she told Sean, "because I don't love you," she could have easily added "I love Nikki" (another cartoon bubble).

Another point I wanted to bring up is Helen telling Nikki she took advantage of her. I think I disagree with some posters here about whether or not Nikki took advantage. I think she did. Helen had a very rough day and she went to Nikki for comfort. Nikki knew this and tried to comfort her. But the right thing to do in that situation is to comfort the person as a friend, not make a pass at her. IOW, Helen was dealing with a big pile of bullshit and Nikki piled it on even more. She did take advantage of Helen who was in a very vulnerable state.

However, having said that, I'm not objecting to what Nikki did. It makes her human and fallible, which I love. Also, being a prisoner with limited time with Helen, she saw one of her few opportunities and took it, not that I think she was consciously thinking that. I do think it was a spur of the moment thing.

I'd also add that the "taking advantage" part was not an isolated incident. It was sandwiched between Helen pursuing Nikki, flirting with her, the potting shed incident, etc on one end and Helen kissing Nikki back on the other. If you consider "taking advantage" the "negative", it's sandwiched between two "positives". IOW, even though Nikki took advantage of Helen, it wasn't an unreasonable next step. And once Nikki kissed Helen, it wasn't like Helen wasn't receptive to it. If you look at the kiss carefully (oh, what a hardship! lol), Helen had three opportunities to back away before she actually does.

My point is, I think Nikki did take advantage of Helen, but on one side Nikki was justified and shouldn't have to apologize for it and on the other side, it gave Helen a chance to blame Nikki for the kiss. Not that Helen was being honest. She would have been only if she had stopped Nikki right from the start.

The last scene I want to mention is where Sean is at the shop with the suit. Helen tells him about six times that she needs to talk to him in private. He ignores her until she had no choice. Later, in S3Ep1 when Nikki tells Helen she's going to SF, Helen says "no" about 7 times (I lost count). There's no real comparison to these scenes, except to say I found it interesting that in both instances, neither one listens to Helen at all. I don't know what it says about her personality or communication skills, just that both conversations stood out to me for that reason.


invisicoll - November 14, 2006 09:23 PM (GMT)
QUOTE
My point is, I think the reason Helen couldn't marry Sean is because she realized she was in love with Nikki.


I see what you are saying, but I don't think Helen is that self aware yet. I think Helen's level of denial and Time Towards Acceptance is a little slower. She's definitely interested in Nikki and knows that Nikki has strong feelings for her. But Helen is still adjusting. My timeline goes a little like: when Helen goes on her leave of absence, she realizes that she might be in love with Nikki, but also thinks she can ignore that and carry on with business as usual. And as we know, she finds out that she can't do that. Then she kisses Nikki, leaves the prison and falls hard for her. When Helen visits her in series 2, she is positively smitten and it's written all over her face.

Here's another example. When Nikki waits for Helen at the gate after the Zandra incident, Helen is fascinated with her. She's all wide eyed and wondering why Nikki's there. Then Nikki tells her she's in love with her and Helen has to put on her armor and walk away. Helen still can't be pushed into acceptance, even if Nikki is putting her heart on a platter for her. She has to do it in her own time and her own way.

QUOTE
She did take advantage of Helen who was in a very vulnerable state.


Again, I see what you are saying, but I don't think Nikki really thought out her actions. When Helen walked into her cell, I don't think Nikki was thinking, "I'm going to kiss her," which would be taking advantage of her. It's more like she was reacting impulsively to someone she cares about. Is it still out of line? It's a gray area since Helen wasn't completely against it.




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