I'm jumping in to start off this discussion because I was so sad to be away for most of last week's discussion. Plus I think this may be my absolute favorite Bad Girls episode. I know we had a thread on that topic a while back, and I voted for the episode where Spencer dies and Nikki helps the Julies make wine, but now I'm really torn.

Normalization of Lesbian Sexuality
There were all these ways this episode was normalizing the lesbian relationship. Its no wonder that all the straight fans were rooting for Helen & Nikki--all the subtext was pushing them in that direction.

The episode is fairly explicit about drawing a contrast between Shell's dysfunctional sexuality and Nikki's lesbian sexuality. The scenes of Shell camping it up in group therapy, reliving her sexual abuse, are intercut with the scenes of Barbara/Fenner's homophobic confrontation of Nikki. Its meant to be ironic, of course, because Barbara is scared of Nikki's sexuality, when we can see that Nikki's sexual/romantic behavior is quite normal particularly in contrast to Shell.

Then, you've got the development of Helen and Nikki's relationship, with Helen coming to visit, and again, this directly follows the female prisoners protesting the male guards (the exagerated, performative anti-male displays, with the blocked peepholes, the covered-up nakedness). Meanwhile you've got an actual prison officer (Helen) who is pursuing a real relationship with an inmate (Nikki--who btw doesn't participate in the "protest"). Of course, Helen & Nikki's relationship is not portrayed as perverted, as is the interest of the male officers in female inmates. In fact, it's significant that this is the first scene where Helen and Nikki have a functional romantic dynamic between them, rather than a battle against Helen's repression.

So, heterosexuality is a source of trauma, while lesbian sexuality is normalized, highly functional, and enhances lives. :)

Indignities of Prison
Another theme they explored with these intertwined plotlines is the indignity of prison life. The scenes in Nikki & Babs's cell emphasized this the most, I think. The mundane moments of Nikki washing up at the sink, changing her clothes, or using the toilet, in incredibly close proximity to a total stranger. As always, Nikki maintains her dignity, but in a way that's even more disturbing, because she has become so accustomed to such a dehumanizing situation. I think the whole business with the peeping Tom protest provides a counterpoint to this same theme, another perspective on the women's complete lack of privacy. While it's slightly silly for the Julies to be accusing Dominic of spying on them, the fact is, their door has a peephole and an opening, and they can be watched at any time.

Opportunities for Individual Expression
I'm kind of thinking out loud as I write this, so I apologize if it's not particularly coherent, but I keep feeling like there is a link between the peeping Tom protest and the Shell-in-therapy storyline, and I think the theme has something to do with the fact that it's impossible in prison to allow the prisoners to truly express their feelings, or even to have true privacy of the soul. Let me clarify....

The reason Dominic has to open the Julie's cell door, even though they claim to be undressed (and, in fact, ARE undressed) is because he can't allow them to have privacy behind that door. They could be doing anything (hanging themselves, shooting up drugs, whatever). The thing is, when you bare yourself in prison, you bare yourself publicly. There are all these moments when Shell, or the Julies, wrench power from a male officer when they have an opportunity to bare themselves. Dominic won't touch Shell even though she won't go into her cell when he tells her to, because she's accusing him of sexual assault. He won't enter the Julies' cell until he has to, because he thinks they are not dressed.

But of course, this is something the officers can't really allow. It's too destabilizing, and it gives the prisoners too much power. So, when the dilemma is between Shell's mental health (the therapist tells Karen to go easy on her, and urges Karen to not put Shell in solitary) and maintaining the rules of order of the prison (Shell did vandalize the hallway), they have to choose to maintain the rules of order. The prisoners can't be allowed to express themselves, to know themselves more intimately.

There's more to this, but I still can't really get my head around it. I hope someone else can jump in with more ideas.

Other Bits

--Debra Stephenson is astoundingly good in this episode. I mean, the writing is terrific, but she really runs with it. Even as she is revealing things about her past, it's in this incredibly dissociated and corrupted kind of way, which completely makes sense for such a "deranged" character. I don't think BG ever created such a fully-realized hateful-yet-sympathetic villain character after Shell.

--It's amazing how much Simone and Mandana make of so little material. I mean, their total screen time in this episode must be 3 minutes, maybe 4, and no matter how many times I see the visiting room scene, my stomach still flutters with the thrill of it. They managed to show such a complex range of emotions in such a short period of time.

--I really like Karen in this episode. I think this middle part of S2 is like the high point for Karen as Wing Gov. Her scenes with Shell are sympathetic yet controlled and responsible. She catches Sylvia in her skyving (sp?). And then next episode she and Helen start to build their collaboration.

Oh my god, it's after 9, I've GOT to get out of work for a few hours, but had to say:

It's pretty much like a bushel of fresh juice oranges, then, ja? SO glad you're back, I'm just snickering my little dykey tuchiss off over upstate-ways. --e

As usual great post abzug.
I just want to second your praise of Debra Stephenson in this episode. I think her acting is what make me like Shell in spite of myself. I say this because in later episodes with another Nikki nemesis Maxie, I simply can't stand her.
Also your point about Karen are spot on. The later episodes with her and Fenner are just icky that I find a bit unbelievable. I don't buy a together woman such as Karen falling for the likes of Fenner.
Another thing this episode led me to question is Nikki's hygiene habits. I mean she didn't wash her hands after going potty. Eew.

I'm glad to BE back. And poedgie, I completely agree with you about Maxi in S3, although I found my heart crying for her a bit in S4. And that lack of handwashing thing always bothers me too!

E, since you're busy, I thought I'd bring over your post from the S2E4 thread, which really was about this episode:

I had a thought about your age comment. In watching the episode this evening, it occurred to me that when she says it started at age 11, it's just one more example of Shell's unreliable testimony. At another point in the episode, she said it had been going on as long as she could remember. My feeling was that 11 may have been the age where her father started having intercourse with her. But that other types of sexual abuse (with her father or perhaps another perpetrator) started much much younger.

I'm also interested to hear a little more about what you mean about US prisons being over-therapized and UK prisons being under-therapized. I guess I missed the thread where that was discussed.

I think the handwashing--given Nikki's general fastidiousness about washing daily, her clothing & make-up--might have been a wee detail we weren't supposed to notice. I think I recall we discussed in the er, toilet thread (are we completely mad? yes! yes, a thousand times, yes) that they didn't have running water hooked up to the sets for sinks & stuff, so we see people brushing their teeth & spitting, for ex., but not drinking from their hands to rinse.

The prison thing was me talking out my arse, sorry. I assumed US prisons made more of a go at certain types of behavioral- and group-therapies for substance abuse, at the very least. Perhaps not. I looked around on the net, but wasn't able to find much of direct application in the time I had available.

I think Abzug's idea about Shell's unreliable testimony plays beautifully, actually--I'd forgotten the bit about her saying it's been happening as long as she can remember, which does make perfect sense & feels true, regardless.

First off, let me start by saying this: Helen’s back. Yay! I absolutely love the visitor’s room scene where Helen returns. It is by far one of my favourite scenes in the whole series. What I found a bit hard to believe, at first, was how comfortable the N&H reunion was. Something strong must have been said in their letters to each other to make them both feel so confident about their relationship. It’s obvious in this episode that they both see themselves as a couple. Nikki compares Helen to Trish by saying, “Or until you meet someone else, like Trish did”. In this statement, Nikki does two things: Compares Helen to her ex-girlfriend; and clarifies that she sees Helen as her girlfriend (“meet someone else”). Helen simply shakes her head at this and makes an ever-so-slight sound that sounds like she disagrees with Nikki that she will meet someone else (or am I the only one who hears this little bit from Helen?). Anyway, if I did hear that correctly, I think this shows that Helen feels exactly the same, sees Nikki as her girlfriend, and all of her fears are gone, regarding being personally involved with a female inmate. Oh, and then Helen coming back to work – brilliant. I love the library scene too, and how Nikki had not guessed Helen was coming back. I loved how Helen sneaked up on her too; total element of surprise, it worked wonderfully.

Ok, moving on: Shell’s therapy. I agree with statements above about Debra Stephenson’s performance in this ep. And Claire King’s, while I’m at it. They both acted through this storyline brilliantly. I don’t really know what to make of the age issue about when Shell was first abused. I don’t think I ever really “read between the lines” in regards to her saying it had been going on ever since she could remember and then saying the first time was at age 11. I never really thought that a child usually remembers things that happened before 11, but I suppose it’s true. I, personally, remember things from about 10 years ago (so I was about 7), so the two statements do sort of contradict one another.

As for the “sexual abuse nonsense” that the inmates have against the male officers in this ep, I thought it was brilliantly done; written and acted. I think it added a comedy element to the episode, but at the same time it was serious enough to make a point. And that was obviously the point about the prisoners not having enough privacy. And, although Nikki does not participate in this protest, she has the same sorts of problems with sharing her cell. As she pointed out in the previous episode, she’s a lifer and so is not used to sharing a cell: she’s always been allocated one of her own. So, it goes from “hogging the en-suite” to going to the loo and getting changed in front of Barbara. Which brings me to another point: where was the shift in the episode where Nikki and Barbara became sort of friends? Because, one minute Nikki’s saying she hates Barbara and the next, Babs is offering to help Nikki receive letters from Helen. While I’m on the point of trust between Nikki and Babs, it seemed a bit weird that Babs would know about Helen: that Nikki would tell her. Did Nikki tell Barbara because Babs didn’t actually know who Helen was? I think I need someone to analyse this a bit for me. Any offers?

I’d like to take a minute to talk about Zandra in this episode. I never really saw her as being particularly vain before this episode. But then she’s so determined not to go “four-eyed”. But, through Zandra getting glasses, we see a definite development in her attraction to Dominic. It’s obvious in this ep that she fancies him, and I think we can see that he’s warming a bit too much to her than he wants to. He has a laugh with her and treats her like a mate, not particularly like a prisoner in his care.

Crystal and Josh captured that sense of normality again in this episode. They make no effort to hide their growing romance from the Julies, with Josh knowing there wasn’t a leak – he was just chatting to Crystal. And the cross pendant, I think this shows that Josh has completely fallen for Crystal. And she accepts, which means she really likes him too. Crystal’s a devout Christian so she doesn’t go round accepting expensive-looking jewellery from any old bloke. I love the romance that these two characters develop over the series.

This is definitely one of my favourite episodes. Another of my definitive faves next week – can’t wait :)

Well, I don't know about any broad programs nationwide, but I can speak to what goes on in a medium security prison in upstate NY where many offenders from NYC are sent. There they do have drug rehab programs and anger management therapy etc. But there's so little space in the programs that prisoners who want to be in them have to go on a waiting list. A waiting list to go into drug rehab!!! Is that messed up or what?! But I don't know that US prisons offer just general group therapy, without a specific purpose, any more than UK prisons do (or don't).

This is a fantastically detailed reading of this scene. I've always been amazed at how much of a couple these two are by this point. Earlier in the episode Nikki does make that comment to Babs ("Even if I were available...cattle prod."), and I've always kind of wondered when it became so solid. Sometime between the first letter (when, in the deleted scene with Di, Nikki is much less certain of her relationship status) and the letter before Helen's visit, they became girlfriends, of a sort. Of course, even so, Nikki still isn't totally sure of Helen--she does make that comment that she thought Helen wouldn't show.

But back to your breakdown of the scene, I generally agree with your interpretation of Helen's reactions, and the fact that they indicate that Helen considers the two of them to be in a relationship. I do think there's one additonal layer, though, which is that Helen is unwilling to make any promises she can't keep. So when Nikki suggests Helen might get bored of coming, Helen doesn't say "No, I promise that will never happen." Instead, she says "Well, I'm here now." So in a way her tiny head shake could be more a non-verbal message to Nikki to get Nikki to stop thinking so destructively, rather than a non-verbal message saying "I won't ever leave you."

Good question. I was wondering that myself. I think in a way, it happens in this very scene. Nikki is angry, and so she's venting to whoever is there. It's not that she feels particularly close to Babs. But Babs now takes this as an opportunity to make a peace offering to Nikki, to help and support Nikki's relationship. Which in a way is the perfect thing, because it shows the journey Babs has made in terms of understanding people in greater depth (Shell's the dangerous one, not Nikki). My guess on why Nikki was able to refer to Helen as if Babs knew who she was related to the fact that Helen had come to visit, so when she returned from the visit (or in anticipation of it) she might have told Babs who Helen was, in a very cursory way of course.

Thanks for this, Abzug. I know I went into a lot of detail with that scene but I didn't really pick up on Helen's personal thoughts during the scene. I merely focussed on the couple in general. So thanks for pointing these points out.

1) Nikki being unsure of Helen. I think she has absolutely every right to feel this way. If you think about it, all Helen has done is the past is walk away and let her down. So it's quite right that she should feel apprehensive about this meeting.
2) I think the way Helen doesn't make any promises is brilliant - she's showing Nikki that she is there but she's not willing to really let her down. The only thing she does promise is that they're "gonna make this work". Now I know we've thoroughly discussed this line somewhere in the past so I won't drag on about it, but I think it's important to note that this is the only promise that Helen makes at this point. Which means that she is completely determined to make it work.


Regarding Nikki's quickly-developed friendship with Babs, I think you've made me understand it more than I did originally. Barabra's the only one who is there and can actually listen to Nikki. And she [Babs] takes it upon herself to take this opportunity to, as you say, make a peace offering with Nikki. So thanks for that analysis too. :)

Yes, the lack of any kind of serious help for patients is in keeping with the general awfulness of prisons; everything I have looked at says alcoholism is esp widespread, drug issues, etc., so obviously the most basic kind of therapies are indicated. But there's no funding for that of course, just more prisons & staff.

re Babs: I'd have to agree w/Abzug's take that I don't necessarily think Nikki would've done more than tell Barbara the absolute minimum about who Helen is; it's Barbara's move to fix things between them, & I think she makes the offer to help as a gesture of both friendship & apology. She can use her eyes as well as the next person, but only Barbara has a *reason* to--so when they have that moment in the servery (ep 11?), she sees it because she's looking for it.

This is a bit off-topic but... As for Nikki, I suggested a long time ago (on the board... I think?), she's always kept shtum about the nature of her relationship with Helen, to everyone. Barbara becomes the only exception in ep12 or thereabouts, when N's driven herself into her semi-nuts phase. Before that, I really doubt it, there's be no reason.

And much much later, long past a time N might be expected to be loyal to a relationship that supposedly is no more, she still gives Caroline absolutely zero data on the subject of her conversation/argument w/H in the office. However awful she must be feeling at that time, their lowest (officially non-existent) moment, Nikki's always loyal to this aspect of their connection: no kissing & telling here. The idea that Nikki might use their relationship against Helen--as some kind of leverage; bargaining chip; for revenge--is literally unthinkable. It's one of the characteristics of Nikki I've always liked best, that we never question even the possibility of this happening, it's outside the parameters of the story. Her integrity on this matter's watertight.

Um. Me go back to work now. 4 days, pls make em go fast...

oh, ps, technical question: if we're running this in tandem w/the UK reairings of the show, does that mean we're skipping next week? might make sense, people will be busy w/the holidays anyhow, & that way we'd stay aligned with whenever they DO decide to pick it up again. It was my impression ep 7 was slated for like, Jan 2 or something but I could be mistaken. --e

You know, I have trouble with this scene. Not in the basic elements: Helen surprises Nikki with news that she's returned to Larkhall in a different position. I'm fine with that. What I didn't really love was how they played it out. And by "they" I mean the director and/or editor because Mandana and Simone played it several ways. Maybe I wouldn't feel that way if I hadn't seen all the outtakes but I'm surprised that they chose to play the scene so.... giggly.

Are they elated with the news? Sure. It's just that the scene at the visiting room is so ripe with tension. I'd think that if they were in a private area after that with news that they'll see each other more often, they wouldn't be giggling like school girls.

I dunno. Maybe it's just me. I would have gone with a different take though.

The first time I saw this ep, I thought this scene was absolutely amazing. But I think your - and maybe others' - disappointment is mainly down to the fact that we have seen so many outtakes of this scene. Is it just me, or does anyone else think that there were different takes all merged together in the editting room for this particular scene? I just seemed to end very abruptly and I could place it almost exactly to one of the outtakes. But the earlirt part/s of the scene don't match that particular take.

Wow, the debate on this episode has leapt ahead which is no surprise and all the posts are absolutely fine, especially Abzug's opening post.
First off, it is interesting that the women who were most affected by the 'man hating' thing are those who dress and behave flirtatiously to men. Shell and the Julies. From seeing the background ,Shell is an obvious candidate but the Julies are an interesting choice when this is cross referenced with an episode in Series 5 when they pull Christopher Biggins up short about 'prossy jokes' 'punters are the only jokes we know.' What is interesting is that when Shell kicked off when Dominic tried to get Shell into her cell, you see Nikki right at the very back lowering her head as if to dissent from Shell and that she took no part it it at all. Am I imagining things but wasn't Nikki accused of being a 'man hater.'

What is interesting is how Babs’ conditioned acceptance of authority systems still operated in taking on face value the person who appeared to be a reliable authority figure (i.e. Fenner) as he appeared to the novice and the way Nikki shook away those illusions as she confronted Babs. There is a marked contrast of Babs’ mild mannered deceit with last episodes of Dominic’s blunt honesty. Babs had to work hard with a demonstration of action(offering to be ‘postie’ for Helen) before Nikki would relent. An interesting point is the few interactions between Karen and Nikki where I got the feeling that Nikki made Karen feel as if her questioning of Babs was somewhat pedestrian. It is an instance of Nikki having the sneaking feeling that she could run Larkhall better than the screws –‘the trained chimpanzee’ crack about Fenner in Series 1 wasn’t just Nikki expressing her detestation of him.

I can’t agree more about Debra Stephenson’s sustained brilliant acting throughout this episode. The way her outfits veered sharply from scene to scene underlined how seriously she was coming apart. What was fascinating about Shell’s account of herself was her bizarre shift from ‘I like men….to I can’t stand them, they expect me to like them’ and the very convincingly reasoned case that Shell’s sexual abuse started from earlier than 11. What was also very shocking is Shell’s revelation that Shell’s mother was also guilty of it which is confirmed by her realization that her own daughters are at risk from her mother.
The whole interview of Shell by Karen was both brilliantly acted and written in the space Karen leaves for Shell to reveal what had been going on and the very circuitous way the conversation developed.

Lisa and Abzug are right to bring out how central Helen’s visit is. It gives a fascinating glimpse post Series 3 as even if Nikki isn’t free, Helen is. She is astonishingly courageous for all that in visiting in the first place and being so free in her manner. There is not a single trace of tension in her manner and this scene shows how splendidly Simone and Mandana pull out the stops in their acting ability, so much of which is non verbal. You are conscious that Nikki is more facing Fenner and Bodybag than Helen is but for all that, does her best to not let them exist.

I’m open to reason but I have felt that the rot started in terms of Karen when Fenner lays the guilt trip on her ‘The I’m not a total shit’ line. What is enigmatic to me is Fenner’s modesty about his part in the Tessa Spall thing which might be a spontaneous response. This and the later scene prefigures Helen’s very astute rider to Karen’s observation of Fenner as ‘model officer’ “as far as she knows.”

Very nice pick-up on that detail, R!

I think they did an interesting piece of work with Karen's relationship to Shell. I wouldn't want to parallel it too closely to H & N because it'd be too weird, just the total opposite/inverse on every level. But the kind of caring Karen shows for Shell now & throughout the rest of S2 (some of the nicest moments for Claire King's acting also, I felt) indicates if not another kind of parallel in background (between Shell & Karen, that is) or experience, some... damn, I don't know, really, thing, there's some bond between them. It's not friendship, not given their situations: this is *not* H & Nikki. But it's definitely about men.

Nice one, ekny.
Just to push this one further, Helen always distrusted Shell as someone who occasionally led to the truth (her being beaten up by Fenner, Series 2 and stabbing fenner, Series 3) Shell was only too willing to stab Helen in the back as Helen came between Shell and her privileges and knew too much about her schemes. Likewise, Nikki's interaction with Karen was very limited and distant. Both Karen and Shell had in common was being attracted to a bastard, Fenner most notably and Karen also saw the softer, more vulnerable side of Shell.

Karen's treatment of Bodybag was very entertaining but what was curious was the way Fenner was prepared to betray Bodybag who had been loyal to Fenner. Just to pick up on another theme, Karen has unleashed a lot of bottled up feelings with the therapy sessions and you got the feeling that there simply wasn't the resources to cater for it - as has been pointed out, to reconcile therapy with a prison regime.

Just to come back on the scene of Nikki and Helen in the library, while I'm aware of the 20 takes or so it took to get it right, I always found the giggly atmosphere convincing in the way that matters had gone so suddenly right in reuniting them after a period when their only contact had been in Helen writing to Nikki.

It's episode 7, the very next episode, when Helen comes in for her first day at work.

I've always thought that Nikki told Babs about the relationship in this very episode we're discussing. And I don't think it undermines your argument, because at this point she didn't know Helen was coming back to Larkhall, so all she was doing was telling the one person who knew she had a visitor, and wasn't at Larkhall during the time Helen was there. It's interesting, because now that I'm thinking about it, perhaps Nikki *didn't* tell Babs at this point. Perhaps all she said was that she'd had a visit from this woman Helen, and that Fenner was stealing/reading her mail from said person. Babs probably made some assumptions based on Nikki's happiness at the prospect of the visit, and her passionate anger at Fenner, but Nikki may not have said anything explicitly. There's no question that Babs knows what's up, even in this episode, and definitely in the next one, when she looks upon Nikki looking at Helen with a positively doting expression.

If the episode isn't broadcast on ITV3, then we shouldn't discuss it. That's my vote at least. We're all at least pretending to be sticking to that broadcast schedule, and it's friendly to newcomers who might actually become fans of the show in reruns and want to discuss the episodes as they air. If we continue discussing one a week, we'll get ahead of ITV3, and then we're totally unstructured, and that seems dangerous to me somehow. :)

It's so funny that you should mention this, because I feel very strongly that seeing all those outtakes has permanently colored my perception of this scene. So, before I watched the outtakes, the very first time I saw this episode, I remember loving the tone, because it was SOOOO happy and gleeful, and just brimming with barely contained passion and energy and joy. For anyone who is familiar with the musical Fiddler on the Roof, there was a revival on Broadway recently, and the song "Wonder of Wonders" was staged in a very similar manner. It's the song where Tevye's oldest daughter, Tzeitel, gets permission to marry the man she loves (Motel, the tailor) rather than the butcher to whom she was promised. And in this recent production, since these two are both Orthodox Jews, they aren't allowed to touch. But they are SOOOOO excited that they are literally (or, make that lit'rally ;) ) bouncing on stage, physically and emotionally uncontained and exuberant. This scene with Nikki & Helen is really similar. They absolutely can't touch, but they are elated, and so the energy just expresses itself in joyful laughter.

That said, now that I've seen the outtakes, I don't feel this when I watch the scene. Instead, I see all the seams of all the takes. Which makes me SOOOOOO glad they didn't show us the outtakes from the first kiss.

Wow. I love how you come up with an interpretation which absolutely never occurred to me. But it is SO spot on! It's yet another stereotype that the show is attacking--the man-hating lesbian. Demonstrating how straight women have MUCH more of a reason to hate men than lesbians do.

I absolutely love this scene. Nikki is so fantastic, she just comes right in and demonstrates complete authority and control. I've always felt that she might not have grassed on Shell if she hadn't just come from her visit with Helen. She was in such a good mood, and felt more optimism than usual, and rather than rail against the incompetence of the screws, she helped them.

Well, I wasn't conscious of it, but now that you've pointed it out I am!!! That's really a key observation in understanding this scene. I think it would have played very differently had Helen had to actually face Fenner and Bodybag throughout the visit.

>>That said, now that I've seen the outtakes, I don't feel this when I watch the scene. Instead, I see all the seams of all the takes. Which makes me SOOOOOO glad they didn't show us the outtakes from the first kiss.

Quite possible they've influenced peoplein that way; I've only watched that batch the once, wasn't anything that interested me (except trying to figure out what SL was saying at the very end, right)... the only thing that's ever felt a bit odd to me about it is the same as it was the first time I saw the show: the scene just sort of... ends. I mean the timing is very weird, like they should've either cut sooner or a line was removed. I remember discussing this with Abzug & coming to some sort of resolution about that, but for the life of me can't recall at the moment what.

I shouldn't be allowed to write when sunk hip deep in retail, honestly, my brain's going to need to be scotch-taped together by the end of this week. Wonder how other people survive.

The transition from Babs being homophobic as hell to having a truce with Nikki, I've always been fine with that; the transition to her beaming at the pair like a proud mum always kinda bothered me. I figure I should chalk it up to ah, Nikki's inherent charm.


>.You are conscious that Nikki is more facing Fenner and Bodybag than Helen is but for all that, does her best to not let them exist.

I agree, Richard, & find that interesting, but I've always felt there was practically a protective force-field coming off Helen around her own back. I can hardly explain or defend anything so fanciful, beyond saying we do see her (and N's) consciousness of Bodybag as she moves into H's field of vision at the end of the visit, as well as everything about their faces conveying throughout they're extraordinarily aware of their surroundings.

Also, 1 tiny thing: visiting "HOUR", hello? I mean I am hardly complaining about one of the most gorgeous scenes in the show, I completely adore it (and can't imagine a fan not, really), but theoretically they'd've had a good half-hour to chat. Sigh. Just a smidge more would've been lovely.

So Abzug: your next assignment, should you choose to take it:

Visiting Hour: the Missing Minutes

Hah! But actually, I recall reading somewhere (probably in the background info on rights & privileges on the official BG site) that if you are on Basic, you only get 30 min of visiting time every 2 weeks. So from that perspective the length of that visit was just right. Plus, Helen arrived a little late, if you noticed. Hey, maybe THAT'S why Nikki thought she wasn't going to come. Maybe she was sure Helen would, right up until the minute she was sitting there and Helen didn't show right at the beginning of visiting time.

I've wondered about that before--if the actual visiting time wasn't closer to half hour; with all the people needing to be vetted & searched (can't *quite* imagine Helen put up with that from youknowwho) & so forth, actual time would've been much closer to about 20 minutes or perhaps even less. I don't think Helen was late because--especially in her case--they wouldn't have let her in, remember other prisoners in similar circumstances...? but she might've been held up a little just to make her uncomfortable.

I always thought there was more than meets the eye in the Karen/Shell relationship as well. I found it quite touching.
Thier relationship also acts as the impetus in Shells stabbing of Fenner.
I believe you're right that it's about men. Perhaps this explains Karens compulsion in taking up with Fenner.
Like so many issues in Bad Gilrs alot takes place of-camera which leads me to the Babs Nikki make up. I think it started when Babs offered to be the postie for N/H. I imagine that night after lockup they had a long heart to heart. I think also it would have helped clarifying matters between B/N had they chose not to delete the scene when Nikki tells Babs about Helen coming to work at Larkhall. Nikki: "now you can stop worrying about me pouncing on you" Babs: "I wish you would let that drop"

I know this discussion isn't about this episode but I just wanted to add to this. The double meaning When Nikki tells Caroline "anyway let's forget about her" always gives me the feeling like we're in on a secret that Caroline knows nothing about.

My interpretation was that the 30 minutes visiting time was from the moment the visitors entered the visiting room. So the searching and security and so forth happened before, and was not included in the 30 min.

According to
http://www.badgirls.co.uk/library/lib_bg4/bg4_3.html
here's the deal on visiting:
Extra or improved visits - prisoners on Basic may just get the minimum legal entitlement of 30 minutes twice a month (for convicted prisoners), but those on Standard usually get longer visits and those on Enhanced will either be allowed longer visits still or more frequent visits.

I don't mean late as in she had to talk her way in because the visiting half-hour was already well underway. But when you watch the scene, all the other prisoners and their visitors are already seated at tables, so at best Helen was very much in the back of the pack (if not even detained a couple minutes), which could still be the explanation for Nikki's momentary doubts. There's some precedent for them letting in visitors who were slightly late--remember Denny insisting that her mother was still going to show? It was only after some time had passed that they told her even if her mother did show up, she wouldn't be let in because she was too late.

Do you think the show is trying to say something about the difficulty/impossibility for women to preserve their own relationships with eachother, because of how men can come between? The Karen-Shell business is one of the few examples on the show where this occurs, but it's a storyline which is MUCH more common in other films and television. So in a way it's almost surprising that they did this storyline on BG--it's almost antithetical to their message....

Your point is something that I’ve thought about mainly in regards to Karen and Fenner. I think there is a fine line in the K/F relationship that is almost insulting, yet at the same time almost understandable. The insulting being that a career minded professional woman seemingly with her shit together such as Karen would fall for such a despicable human being in Fenner. The understandable part is that if Karen had abuse/molestation issues with men in her past then its part of a pattern that woman of abuse often follow.
I’m sure that we all know plenty of woman who’ve followed that pattern. My partner of 16 years is among them. When I met her she was 41 and had been married 5 Times!!! To make a long story short we’re still happy together after all this time. (Our biggest problem now is our age difference. I’m 9 years younger than her and she’s having a really tough time with the big six oh approaching)
Back to the point I don’t think that the show is trying to say anything about the difficulty of woman on woman relationships considering the wonderful woman/woman relationships that they do depict. From the Julies symbiotic one to Nikki and Babs affection for one another.
I really think it was more of a convenient plot point. That is a good reason for Shell to stab Fenner.

There's three points here worth picking up on.
1. I can quite understand you being incredibly busy before christmas, Ekny, and Abzug has quite rightly reproduced your pieces where they fit in just fine.

2. Another reason why Babs changed so markedly is that she learnt the hard way who to trust and who not to. It's interesting that Babs has quite a strong spirit- witness the wallop she gave her stepson round the head and that, when she adopted a position, she would stick by it come hellor high water. Another thing is that it wasn't Nikki's explosion of anger at Babs as such that got home, it was what she said.

3. Your description of a 'force field' sounds absolutely convincing and very real to me

What I'm fascinated to pick up on was something I'd missed up till now and that is Ekny's and Abzug's very acute observation of the 'missed scene' that Nikki had told Babs about Helen's forthcoming visit and I agree that a minimal amount of information was given. A lot of the subtlety in Shed's writing is in the way that they allow the viewer to infer 'off screen' events. I am sure that this is deliberate and a nice tribute to writers to trust the viewer to follow them if they want to.

I agree with poedgie that Karen has a definite character trait in falling for the same kind of smooth talking bastards despite her obvious intelligence and likewise with Abzug with her reading of the Helen and Nikki library scene. I would go along with the week' s break in episode discussions.

This is how I felt too. The scene just ends. Just like that. I love the scene where Helen returns, but just the way it ends kind of bothers me.

On another note, I have checked ahead on Sky for the ITV3 schedual and Bad Girls is not due to be aired next Tuesday. Which means that Ep7 will probably be aired on January 2nd.

I've been stewing a little bit over this episode in the past few days, primarily because I wasn't happy with my attempt to draw a connection between the peeping Tom storyline and Shell's storyline. But I think the real unifying theme there is about controlling self-exposure. This idea actually allows us to tie in Helen's visit to Nikki and even Zandra getting glasses. Here's my thoughts:

In this episode, everyone is trying to control how much they expose of themselves, physically and emotionally. The peeping Tom protest is the obvious one--inspired by Shell, some of the prisoners take a stand in demonstrating how vulnerable they are to exposure, and how they are going to protect themselves from that vulnerability.

But there are other less explicit examples. Helen is finally ready to come visit Nikki because she's finally not scared to show other prisoners and prison officers that Nikki is special to her. Or, she's been missing Nikki so much that the desire to see Nikki outweighs her fear of exposing herself. Zandra doesn't want anyone (read: Dominic) to see her in glasses, even if it will cure her headaches, primarily because it will expose a side of her which she isn't comfortable with--the flawed, semi-nerdy side.

And then, of course, we've got Shell, who in this episode alternates between exposing herself to the extreme (the barely-there outfit in the group therapy session, the meeting with Karen when she's been confined to solitary), and hiding herself (accusing Dominic of spying on her, switching from her revealing clothes to baggy sweatpants and sweatshirt). This being Shell, everything is dysfunctional and inconsistent, because Shell doesn't really know when it's appropriate to expose herself and when it's not. Not = group therapy, telling Karen she wants to get a knife and stab Fenner, protecting herself from Dominic, the least likely peeping Tom at Larkhall.

All this stuff about exposure also revolves around a sort of performativity, the idea that you can't expose yourself without an audience. Of course, again, the peeping Tom storyline serves as the core, because it's a bit of a staged performance itself. The participants are purposefully not dressed when their cells are opened. They aren't actually walked-in on, they're making sure it happens to make a point. But Shell, similarly, finally decides to expose herself before an audience (the therapy group), showing something she never revealed before. It's like, something significant can happen, power can be asserted, when someone is willing to do something in front of an audience. Not only the peeping Tom protesters, but also Helen, and, even more notably, Shell, at the very end of the episode, with her dramatic appearance up on G3.

This is the essence of prison--it's why prisoners are sent to solitary when they misbehave, because it takes away their audience. No statement can be definitive without people to witness it, and that's perhaps why Helen came to visit Nikki, even though she was hoping to come back to work at Larkhall, and in reality, could have skipped the visit altogether. So, as audience members, we only know now, during & after the visit, that Helen & Nikki are for real.

Edited to Add: I think this is yet another way that this episode normalizes Helen & Nikki's lesbian relationship and identities, in contrast to everyone else. They are the only two in complete control of their exposure, doing it sincerely, and out of a totally open desire.

This piece of Abzug's is definitely a masterpiece and connects up what a casual viewer sees only as a series of disconnected events. It is also a prime example of a valuable gift of 'looking at life sideways.'

It makes a connection of the wierdness of Shell in her drastic changes in outfits and her mind flying all over the place. it is ironic that Shell's stock in trade is of manipulating others (in exploiting her harrassment of Marilyn and setting Fenner against Nikki) whereas she is totally not in control of herself let alone anyone or anything else.

I like the inclusion of the minor yet appealing theme of Zandra's opposition to wearing glasses before Dominic and Helen's visit to Nikki at a time when she was hopeful of getting the job she was after.

I have taken this phrase which sums up prison life as to what is believed, what is accepted as fact, what is recorded as 'official history.' Throughout, Shed portrays what actually happens and plays this off against what is accepted as truth (i.e. Fenner is a respected prison officer, Nikki is a troublemaker, Fenner is not having an affair with Shell)

"No statement can be definitive without people to witness it."

It opens up the further question of who the witnesses are in terms of the believability and makes a nice connection with the idea of segregation which is also designed to leave the prisoner with no human contact. It is a severe test of just how much the prisoner is 'at home with herself' which Shell most evidently isn't.

Brilliant.

Wow, thanks everyone! I'm glad people liked the self-exposure theme. I was pretty pleased with it myself when it suddenly popped into my head, and it confirmed my instinctive feeling that this is one of the most tightly written episodes of the show, all eight seasons.

I particularly liked this bit:

coupled with the observation about why solitary's so punitive socially & psychologically. Tied in to your larger theme it really works nicely, playing off Richard's ideas about accepted truth as well as the inner resources (or lack thereof) of various prisoners.

Still digesting. :)

(And happy holidays to everyone!)

A few comments:

ekny:

It's quite possible Shell was abused earlier than 11, but if it started somewhere at 5, she wouldn't have been able to process it in a "rational" way. So she would have blanked it out of memory, which happens frequently with this kind of abuse. It's also possible she blanked out the abuse altogether and the therapy brought it back to the surface. In the beginning of the therapy she talked about seeing shadows in her room and it could have been the memory of her father being the abuser was tucked away in her memory until the therapist kept pressing on.

Shell has always been an interesting character to me, someone who was damaged but still had a soul somewhere underneath all the bullying. They showed glimpses of her where she cared that she had no friends despite her bravado (even Denny, who was damaged in her own way, came with a price). And it was because of this glimpse into her soul that she was a character I came to love. Or loved to hate, whatever the case may be.

OTOH, Fenner is a different story altogether. He wasn't someone I could empathize with in any shape or form. He wasn't someone I could love to hate, I just hated him. He had no soul.

The problem with him is that even when he's telling the truth, it feels like he's lying because you always get the feeling that he's already planning to use it for his own gain somewhere down the line. Like when he says to Karen he's "not a complete shit". My immediate reaction was "oh, yes you are, you bastard" like I don't believe a single word that comes out of his mouth. I think part of him was being sincere when he said it, but another part of him was scheming to get on Karen's good side, his ultimate goal. It's the same when he said he didn't want the medal for saving Karen. In that instance, Karen immediately saw through him and called him on it, "you don't have to overdue it." So he was lying but he wasn't lying. Just not a character I could ever relate to.

richard

When you see Nikki in the background, she doesn't join in the protest, but she actually laughs when Shell says to Dominic "you watch us on the bog". It was filmed kinda weird though, because one minute she's there, and the next she's not, it's very quick.

richard

I love the way Nikki responds, "Anytime.... (pause) governor." It's like she's mocking her at the same time she's accepting thanks. LOL!


JMO about the giggling scene with Nikki & Helen. I liked it a lot because it was so lighthearted in stark comparison to the many angsty scenes they have together. But I also thought it wasn't long enough. Maybe not in this scene but some other one, I would have liked that they hugged at least one time. Of course, their surroundings prevented them from doing it but there were times they could have when it was safe. I mean, even when Nikki won her appeal and Helen met her at the club, they didn't hug. And they should have given the circumstances. OTOH, you always got the feeling that there was so much sexual tension between them, maybe they were afraid to hug because of where it would lead even in front of Trisha. Oy! :D

Maybe this belongs on the camera angle thread (I haven't read it) but it would also be nice if they showed Helen & Nikki below the chest line, like waist high. IOW, there are times when Helen touches Nikki or vice versa but we can't really see it, we just see the tops of their fingers (if you look very closely) so we know they are being touched. Maybe it's just me, but I want to see that! I guess it's keeping in line with whole "Victorian" theme, but it's just frustrating. Ah, maybe that's the point. LOL. Never mind!

Hi Nikihele,

I hear what you're saying! I don't think it's about anything intentional, or some sort of frustrating 'victorian' subtext Shed was introducing: it's purely technical, what you're talking about with the framing, a kind of glitch introduced when the show was transfered to DVD. I don't know if that'll ever change.

BBC is currently rebroadcasting the 'original' show--the exact same show we have on our DVDs, but with the soundtrack from the initial TV airings. A UK friend of mine is quite adamant about this version including more of the frame, & from what very little I've had time to look at thus far, she seems to be right. This is mainly at the sides of the frame, rather than the top or bottom; maybe this is something that just happens when a show's being put into DVD format, or sloppiness on the part of Contender or Kult (whoever did the technical stuff involved), don't know. If BG is rereleased, it should be possible to see *some* of that stuff you're talking about. A lot of it is at the bottom of the screen, like Helen touching Nikki in the garden when asking for her help with Monica, so that might be deliberate on Shed's part. My feeling is it's a way to be subtle. ...the one thing I did see for sure is, remember when Zandra's at the hospital for her abortion, mugging it up for the onlookers? there's a guy standing screen-left: she's mugging specifically for him as audience. The scene still works w/o knowing this--she's just being obnoxious & hamming it up for 'everyone' in general--but as it stands, it does make Zandra seem even more unstable than she is. So yeah, in sum--I totally agree, if it was filmed with a certain type of framing, then obviously, we'd all want to see it that way!

From what little I've seen, the other thing I'd have to say is Shed's blocking & framing is just as meticulous as the rest of the show through the early seasons. So it is a shame we'll probably never get to enjoy it in its pristine form.

Ah, the madness that is fandom. ;)

Hi Nikhele. You raise interesting questions in the points you raised about Fenner and Shell and bracketing them both together. Certainly, I started to have more sympathy for Shell in Series 2 when her dissociated personality and history of abuse came to the surface and fractionally, that she was getting no thanks when she initially testified against Fenner and got him suspended. I felt that in the post Tessa Spall scene his "I'm not a complete shit' was deliberately designed to make Karen feel guilty and ungrateful and is entirely as you say and ekny has said in a different form. Even when he does something worthy of merit, he can't help twisting it to his own personal advantage. One scene I can think of where there is any sign of genuine feelings is a later scene when Marilyn left him, taking their kids with her.

I'm glad that you interpret Nikki as laughing at Shell when Shell was accusing Dominic of touching her. That was the way I read it and is interesting that Shed take care to include that background shot.

Great post Nikkhele. I completely agree with your comparison of Shell and Fenner. Even before we find out about Shell's abuse in this episode, we see her emotional side, with her advocating for Denny against Denny's mom in S1E6, and with her desire to have Fenner back, the only man who's shown her any attention (which she interprets as love). In a way, she's just a child who desperately wants to be loved, but has very limited tools to use in getting love from people (blackmail, bully, torture etc).

The lack of humanization of Fenner is one of the things that has always bothered me about the show. The guy was a complete jerk in S1, but you could sort of get where he was coming from (old guard, likes having power over women etc)--he's maybe a sociopath, but not a psychopath. By S2, and definitely S3 and beyond he's just a monster.

I did think the first ep of S7 offered a very interesting glimpse into his head, showing how fractured it is, and how his ability to compartmentalize and repress is his defining trait. Without it, he never would have been able to do the things he did. Didn't make me more sympathetic to him, but it did make me feel (for a brief brief moment) that he wasn't just The Villain. For a show which offers a remarkably complex take on characters we would otherwise dismiss (drug addicts, murderers, prostitutes), it's a shame they didn't give us at least a little insight into Fenner.

We can agree to differ on this, of course, but I think dating his 'monster'-hood from S3, much less S2, is perhaps a bit premature. S2 spends a lot of time showing him in recognizably human contexts--w/his wife etc., and S3 with Karen. They're very unpleasant contexts, but they're credible. He's a massive creep, a conniving opportunist, an abuser, & so on ad nauseum, but he's still believable as a character. (To me.) I'd argue it's not til we find out he hasn't reported Di's abuse of her mother--beginning of S4--that he leaves the reality that's been well-established through then for points uncharted.

I'm convinced, ekny. :) Although I do think there's a change in Fenner sometime in S2 from the character he was in S1, you're right that he's not really monstrous until S4, and we all know what happens in S5 and S6....

Oh god, yes! <run away! run away!> :)

I've always found the way Fenner evolved as credible although I know other posters have had trouble with late series BG Fenner. It seems to be that the scale of his 'ambitions' increased step at a time following the gradual realisation of what he could get away with.
At the start, his ambitions were limited to having the pick of the women he fancied, the chance to run prison from his level with backup and no interference from above and coming home and his wife ironing his shirts, etc.
He didn't plan to be a monster, it's just that he was originally limited in his imagination for what he could get away with and likewise his desire for power. Everything builds on what he's done before, only ratcheted up that little bit more each time.
It isn't easy to pick out just when Fenner becomes a monster for that particular reason. This is illustrated by comparing Ekny's instance of Fenner not reporting Di's abuse of her mother and his attempt to blackmail Di into plant a knife (??) on Nikki when she was going to the appeal court.

I don't know if I can say exactly when Fenner became a monster. It seemed to me more that he was a popular character and the writers had to come up with more and more contrived ways of keeping him on the show. Not to get into too much of future episodes, but the one huge instance of him... ahem baring himself, in real life, would have had him transferred to an all male prison at the very least. To go back to Larkhall, on G Wing, just not plausible. But by that time, I had long stopped caring what they did with his character.

Richard.
re the scene with Nikki laughing in the background, I have a zoom on my DVD and it's clear she laughs, along with the other prisoners, when Shell said the bog comment to Dominic. What's odd is that you don't really see her in any other part of the scene, just way in the background behind Fenner in that one shot. I almost missed it and was surprised to see her there.

Ekny,
So I'm not the only one who is frustrated with the touching below the camera line. heh. Other scenes besides the garden/Monica scene: when Helen resigns, Nikki touches her, after Claire's first visit, Helen touches Nikki when she says she feels the same thing. There are more. It feels like we're missing so much! As a side note, one thing I noticed is how much Simone "talks with her hands". I didn't notice it right off because much of it is below the camera line, and I think actors aren't supposed to do that, but with Simone (Helen) it just became a really cute thing! There should be a drinking game for every time she does it. Unless there already is one. lol.

abzug,
Interesting point about Shell wanting Fenner back. Even Denny saw through his bullshit with that letter. At first, I didn't understand how she could be fooled so easily, but then I watched the DVD interview with Debra S. and she explained that Shell felt that someone actually loved her, even if he was married and a total asshole, because she was that desperate.

The other thing about Shell is how she continually lied that Fenner raped her. From what we saw, it was a two way street, her wanting him as much as he wanted her. Ick. But I think in Shell's mind, after the abuse of her father came to the fore, she equated Fenner with her father. A man who simply took what he wanted and she felt she had no choice but to give in. IOW, as a child her personal boundaries were taken away from her and that stayed with her as a adult. Shell was one of those women where sex didn't mean anything to her other than a means to an end, i.e. favors, a place to stay etc. Fascinating character and Debra does a superb job with it.

I find re-watching the season one episodes that Fenner, while not likeable by any stretch of the imagination, was tolerable as a character because he seemed to have less of a twirling mustache villainy about him and was simply a man who used his position to get what he wanted. I might not have liked his methods, but his means never rang false to me. Especially in season one, seeing him with Dominic and Bodybag, he is quite "normal"; personable to his co-workers without having that sheen of creepiness about him. I suppose it's because they had nothing to offer him so he didn't have to play this dual role of "I'm nice to you only because you have something to give me". His interaction with Rachel Hicks seems incredibly genuine... until you find out what his real intent is in later episodes. Had I not known beforehand about the character, his actions in those first couple of episodes might not have felt so icky.

Somehow they managed to balance a bit of sympathy with brutality with Shell, in a way they never could with with Fenner. By that I mean, it was often easy to forget the downright horrible things we had seen Shell do (and the situation with Hollamby and her husband in a later ep is the sledgehammer that reminds us all of Shell's psychosis). There was a vulnerability to her that softened even the most brutal of actions. They never gave that to Fenner, though it's easy to see why, not only due to his purpose as a character, but I think also due to the overall theme of men on the show. Most of these women came to prison because of their actions against brutalizing men only to find the epitome of these men on the inside.

Re: the framing. Any idea what the aspect ratio was when SHED originally filmed it? I doubt they filmed in widescreen back then, but I wonder if it was transferred to DVD with the intent of being able to better fit standard 4:3 screens? I'd have to see a cap of the current run and compare it to the DVD cap. How odd, though.

Don't have any info abt the original aspect ratio, maybe someone else does? S1-3 DVDs were 4:3, then they made S4 16:9, which made adding clips from that series for the fanvid just about impossible (argh!); then they went back to 4:3. Very odd indeed.

Hmmmm... well, the 4:3 shouldn't have made a difference in the transfer to DVD. Unless they give the widescreen option on S4, then there will be a transfer problem (ie. will they go fullscreen or pan & scan). Then to go back to 4:3... bizarre. Cost efficiency, perhaps? Either way, it doesn't explain the left/right paring of the scene that occurs with a transfer from 2.35:1 to 4:3. The puzzle continues...