Dennis, I went ahead and decided to start a James Horner section. I went on IMDb to see what it shows for his next projects (and yes everyone I know that it is not always reliable). However, what they have listed looks like great projects.

East of Eden (2006) (announced)
The Da Vinci Code (2006) (pre-production)
Ask the Dust (2005) (post-production)
The New World (2005) (post-production)
Legend of Zorro (2005) (post-production)

I am particularly excited about the Legend of Zorro since the Mask of Zorro score was so good. I loved how the Flamenco dancers steps were added seamlessly as part of the score (as if they were percussion instruments).

I am not familiar with "The New World" or "Ask the Dust". I am getting ready to look them up. However, "The Da Vinci Code" looks like it is going to be good and it is directed by Ron Howard. Howard is a great director, and seems to really like Horner.

"East of Eden" must be a remake. My wife owns an older movie by the same title. I will also look into that as well.

Also, everyone should post their favorite Horner scores:
My List:
1. Legends of the Fall (I love the beautiful melodies)
2. Willow (Great Fantasy Score)
3. Star Trek the Wrath of Khan (great brass writing)
4. Krull (What can I say...Big, Load, Adventurous, Beautiful)
5. Braveheart (I love the Uillean Pipes)
6. Apollo 13 (Great Theme)
7. Rocketeer (Great Adventure Music)
8. Field of Dreams (very intimate....good use of electronics)
9. Cocoon (portrays whats on the screen perfectly)
10. Battle Beyond the Stars/Humanoids from the Deep (his first two films/great double cd release)

I can't wait to see what others think his best music is.......and by the way I could have made a top 50 list easily (it was hard to just list 10....) :yahoo:

He is a great composer with a lot of good ideas. I don't mind that he is re-using some of these ideas if it sounds good and fits the film. For example i like his music for A Beautiful Mind but i know the main theme is very close to his Bicentennial Man theme which does not bother me since both sound great.

Here is a little listing:

1. Aliens (one of the first action/horror scores that i really loved)
2. The Land Before Time (one of the first animation scores that i really loved)
3. Apollo 13 (the launch sequence alone makes it one of my favorites)
4. Bicentennial Man (excellent main title theme)
5. Star Trek 2 (nice seafaring score that does not sound like a Trek score at all)
6. Titanic (it is actually a good score, no idea why people bash it)
7. Willow (nice adventure score)
8. A Beautiful Mind (nice main theme)
9. The Rocketeer (annother nice animation score)
10. Star Trek 3 (this is almost as far away from a trek score as possible - with the exception of Leonard Rosenman's score - but still a nice listen)

Good job Jeremy! ;) The new projects sound really promising. I'm really looking forward to them, especially "The Da Vinci Code", which is in my opinion a film that is perfect for James.

Cheers,

Dennis

James Horner is a talented composer (but you already knew that :D).
This is my top 10:

1. Legends of the Fall
2. Braveheart
3. The Missing
4. The Perfect Storm
5. Willow
6. The Mask of Zorro
7. A Beautiful Mind
8. Enemy at the Gates
9. Titanic
10. Troy

Very nice list Lee!

Ok, I'll try to do my top ten list now. It is so hard to do (It changes every week).

1. Willow
2. Glory
3. Sneakers
4. Legends Of The Fall
5. Star Trek II: The Wrath Of Khan
6. Braveheart
7. Balto
8. Cocoon
9. The Rocketeer
10. Krull

Something like that :D

Dennis

Oh...great thread!!

So...my heroes are:

1 - Michael Jor...............no wait...wrong thread! :D


No, seriously...I like this composer. I don't know him so much, so I can't post a top-10 list of my favourite scores of his. Andreas, I think Titanic is bashed, because of Caline Dion's song played forever and ever and ever again by MTV.

So it's Celine Dion's fault, and most importantly, MTV's fault.
Yep, video killed the radio stars! :D


I love that song, by the way, it's one of the rare times that a song fits perfectly in a movie. It's one of the best-love songs ever, IMO, the only bad thing about it it's that it was played too much by MTV and radios back in 1997.

Hahaha, come on now you're exaggerating! :D LOL

About Horner's "Titanic"; I think it's a good score. "Hard To Starboard" is Horner action at its best I think. On the other hand, I think that sometimes, the score is just a bit too much on the commercial side. It was a smart move of Horner though, since that may have been the reason of its success, but that's not for sure (just a thought).

Could be a reason.

Oh, and Tommy, since you don't know much of Horner's work, I suggest you check out the list of essential cues I posted in your beloved "Your Heroes" topic :D just joking of course!

Cheers,

Dennis

Like I said the in hijacked thread, I have never gotton into Horner. The only scores I really know good are Titanic and Perfect Storm. And although they are pretty similar at times, I like both of them. I also clearly remember from Cinematic Sound that Legends in the Fall is pretty good.
Apollo 13 is from what I remeber fantstic, but there's no decent album to purchase as I've learned. Braveheart is a score I never liked, I don't know why.
I also can't stand StarTrek 2/3. I mean it's great music and all, it's just not StarTrek. It sounds very....boyish in comparrision to Goldsmith's, Eidelman's and McCarthy's mature sound of space. Just too springy and dodgy for StarTrek to me.
And man was I disappointed to see footage of the Enterprise in Drydock and the music is just some unnoticable underplaying. Just one quote of the "real" Enterprise Theme at this point, but no... and so be it.
Back to Horner. Apart from the terrible wailing women and the endlessly repeated 'danger motif' (so often that even my (film) musically ignorant friends laughed at one point...) there's some really good material in Troy, too.

I know from cinematic sound that his older scores are pretty good ,but I don't own or really know one of them.
But I'm sure, one day I will dig them.

My fav Horner (alphabetical order) :

Aliens
An American Tail I & II
Balto
Brainstorm
Casper
Cocoon I & II
Dad
Deep Impact
Honey I Shrunk the Kids
Krull
Land Before Time (the)
Mighty Joe Young
Perfect Storm (the)
Project X
Rocketeer (the)
Star Trek II & III
Titanic
Troy
Willow
Zorro

Alan Silvestri and James Horner are always duelling in my heart, it's very hard sometimes, coz James Horner helped me change at a difficult age (around 15), although he already cradled me when I was watching AN AMERICAN TAIL at 6. I'm so close to James' heart. All his music reflects perfectly how I see life and how I feel emotions.

Yeah, it's interesting: If the song is played to much then people complain about the film's score. The melody is actually quite nice and was a very fresh composition by horner at the time.

You are refering to the synth orchestration during the southhampton/drydock cues?

The promo would be the best way to go for you. No dialogue + unused material. I think there is even a isolated score on the dvd.

You mean stealing the enterprise from Star Trek 3? You know i like Horner's Trek stuff. It actually fits pretty well but in it's own personal way.

I now Horner uses some melodies and motifs again for various films. But to be honest all film composers do from time to time. They simply do not have much time to score a film. The deadlines are looming and they write things that are familiar to them. It is part of the job. Also, so many of the great composer from Bach, to Mozart, to Beethoven, etc. quoted one another and reused their own material from time to time. I do not understand why Horner is always the one to get bashed for it. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that around Hollywood he is not considered the nicest man in town.... I don't know.

I agree Titanic is a good score. I think that so many people that bash the score are actually referring to the song. I don't think very few people have taken the time to really listen to the rest of the score. The bashing got so bad this last year that a store chain in the US called Hastings were selling used copies of the Titanic score for .49 cents (you could go into anyone of their many stores and find easily 50 used copies on their shelves....they almost could not give them away). Although, I do not think the score is his best and I don't think it deserved the Oscar....many of his other scores have deserved to win.....

Pogel, you should check out some of his early scores (Krull, Willow, Land Before Time, etc.). You will not be disappointed.

Here is a list of some Horner score in alphabetical order and a link to a cool Horner website (http://www.hornershrine.com/):

Aliens (1986)
"Amazing Stories" (1985) (TV Series, episode Alamo Jobe)
An American Tail (1986)
An American Tail: Feivel Goes West (1991)
Angel Dusted (1980) (TV)
Another 48 Hours (1990)
Apollo 13 (1995)
Back to Titanic (1998)
Balto (1995)
*batteries not included (1987)
Battle Beyond the Stars (1980)
Between Friends (1983) (HBO)
Bopha! (1993)
Brainstorm (1983)
Braveheart (1995)
Captain EO (1986)
Casper (1995)
Class Action (1991)
Clear and Present Danger (1994)
Cocoon (1985)
Coccon: The Return (1988)
Commando (1985)
Courage Under Fire (1996)
Dad (1989)
Deadly Blessing (1981)
Deep Impact (1998)
Devil's Own (1997)
The Drought (1978) (AFI)
Fantasies (1978) (AFI)
Field fo Dreams (1989)
"Fish Police" (1992) (TV Cartoon Series, main titles)
48 Hours (1982)
A Far Off Place (1993)
A Few Days in Weasel Creek (1981) (TV)
Gist and Evans (1978)
Glory (1989)
Gorky Park (1983)
The Hand (1981)
Heaven Help Us (1984)
Honey, I Shrunk the Kids (1989)
House of Cards (1993)
Humanoids From the Deep (1980)
I Love you to Death (1990)
In Country (1989)
Jack the Bear (1993)
Jade (1995)
Journey of Natty Gan (1985)
Jumanji (1995)
Just for a Laugh (1978)
Krull (1983)
Lady in Red (1979)
Land Before Time (1988)
Legends of the Fall (1994)
The Man Without a Face (1993)
The Mask of Zorro (1998)
My Heros Have Always Been Cowboys (1991)
The Name of the Rose (1986)
Norman and the Killer (1978)
Off Beat (1986)
Once Around (1991)
Once Upon A Forest (1993)
P.K. and the Kid (1982)
The Pagemaster (1994)
Patriot Games(1992)
The Pelican Brief (1993)
The Persuit of D.B. Cooper (1981)
A Piano For Mrs. Cimino (1982) (TV)
Project X (1987)
Rascals and Robbers--The Secret Adventure's of Huck Finn (1982) (TV)
Ransom (1996)
Red Heat (1988)
The Rocketeer (1991)
Searching for Bobby Fischer (1993)
Sneakers (1992)
Something Wicked This Way Comes (1983)
Spectral Shimmers (1978)
Spitfire Grill (1996)
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (1982)
Star Trek III: The Search for Spock (1984)
The Stone Boy (1984)
Streets of Fire (1984)
Swing Kids (1993)
Tales from the Crypt (1989) (TV, episode, Cutting Cards)
Testament (1983)
Thunderheart (1992)
Titanic (1997)
Back to Titanic (1998)
To Gillian on Her 37th Birthday (1996)
Tummy Trouble (1990) (Animated Short)
Uncommon Valour (1983)
Unlawful Entry (1992)
Volunteers (1985)
Vibes (1988)
The Watcher (1978)
We're Back! A Dinosaur's Story (1993)
Where the River Runs Black (1986)
Willow (1988)
Wolfen (1981)

I hope you enjoy....Also, is there anyone out there that has the "Batteries Not Included" score by Horner and is willing to part with it....I can't find it and when it comes up on Ebay I can't afford it..... :/

I got the last list from the Horner Shrine....it is missing many of his newer scores like Iris, House of Sand and Fog, Windtalkers, Four Feathers, and many others.

Also, I mentioned in the last message that I am looking for a copy of the score to "Batteries Not Included". I am also looking for the score to "Thunderheart".

Also, BigMacGyver, you said next to "The Rocketeer" that is was a good animated score. The Rocketeer is a live action film. Actually a very good film......You probably all ready knew that. I always type so fast that I make so many errors.

:)

I never watched the movie. The CD cover always looked kind of cartoonish to me and reminded me of iron man so i thought it is animated. ;)

No, I think it's just the overall feel of the score. The beginning of "Hard To Starboard" may be a good example. "Titanic" just sounds very different from all other Horner scores, even though there are certain passages/motifs from other scores in it.

About the danger motif:
Yes, he used it many times. But when he uses it, it works; no question about it. Actually, I don't think he used it too much. He used it in 18 out of his 120/130 (?) scores and the only three scores in which he really uses the motif a lot are "Willow", "Enemy At The Gates" and "Troy". And even though he used it in 18 of his scores, it just sounds a little bit different everytime. The danger motif can also be found in Sergei Rachmaninov's "1st Symphony" and Richard Wagner's "Parsifal" :D

Pogel, maybe this will help:

Horner's emotional masterpieces:
- Legends Of The Fall
- Glory
- Apollo 13
- The Spitfire Grill (Great if you like Elmer Bernstein's "To Kill A Mockingbird", it has the same kind of feel)
- Braveheart
- Cocoon
- Field Of Dreams
- The Man Without A Face

Horner's action masterpieces:
- Star Trek II: The Wrath Of Khan
- The Mask Of Zorro
- Willow
- Krull
- The Rocketeer
- The Perfect Storm

Horner's suspense masterpiece:
- Sneakers

Horner's "animated" masterpieces:
- The Land Before Time
- Balto

Horner scores which are just great fun:
- We're Back! - A Dinosaur's Story
- An American Tail: Fievel Goes West

Of course this list is based on my opinion but if anyone wants to add some other great Horner scores to this list feel free to do so!

Cheers,

Dennis

Yeah, it's really too bad that the Horner Shrine hasn't been updated for a long time.

"Batteries Not Included" is pretty hard to find. I own a 2 scores on one disc bootleg release of "Vibes" and "Batteries Not Included", excellent quality! If you ever come across it I suggest you buy it.

"Thunderheart" is available at Footlight.com. Check out this link:
"Thunderheart" score at Footlight.com

Cheers,

Dennis

Thanks Dennis, this really helps - as I will approach the action scores first... ;)

Willow, Krull and Rocketeer are compulsory, I guess.
I'm not sure about the emotional ones - if I might use the term I just made up in the 13th Warrior thread, most of these types are too "outright subtly". Probably intresting composition wise, but for now I'm not going to spend money on scores that are hard to listen to (at least for me).

As for the danger motif, I think it worked really well in Perfect Storm, but in Troy it was just too annoying to work for me (but I only saw the movie once and I don't own the score) I do remeber the action piece (?) on the final battle in the town being really good, though.

But I think the point is well made that it's not right to reduce Horner to that motif.
You easily get the impression on FSM or other sites, especially the german that now is asking money [which was when I left], that people just dislike Horner because of that.
I'm under the impression that although he has a pretty "low profile" phase in his career right now, the quality of his scores isn't excactly worse then it used to be.

And it would be also fair to point out that a lot of other compoers have or had regular returning motifs, like Goldsmith's action motif (aka US Marshalls [great score BTW] ).

I think Horner's emotional scores are anything but hard to listen to, but of course it is possible that you won't like them. Maybe you should check out some sound clips of the scores at Amazon.com. If you love beautiful melodies you just can't afford not to own "Legends Of The Fall".

Yeah absolutely ;) ;
- "Willow" is probably Horner's most powerful action score, but there are many beautiful, emotional moments too. It's very thematic and epic.
- "The Rocketeer" is great fun. It's a bit like "Star Trek II: The Wrath Of Khan", but far more mature. The main theme is great and the action music is fast paced, entertaining and upbeat. Jenny's Theme (a slower, secondary theme) is just beautiful.
- "Krull" is more of a fantasy score actually but there's plenty of great action stuff. I like "Willow" better, because it's so well orchestrated, there are many great themes and the performance by the Londen Symphony Orchestra is so much better.
- And let's not forget "The Mask Of Zorro". Fast paced action music combined with the well known flamengo elements. Simply fantastic.

Hope this helps,

Dennis

Dennis, thanks for the link for the "Thunderheart" Score.

Pogel....you definetely need to check out "Legends of the Fall" (as Dennis said "if you like beautiful melodies)....in my book it is a must have....I just spent the last hour listening to it yet again....However it is not all beautiful music...if you have seen the film you know that many trajedies happen throughout and the music reflects this.

Willow and Krull are the next Horner scores I would recommend.

I am curious if anyone has read the interview that Horner did with Film Score Montly a few months ago (FSM Volume 9, Number 2). After reading this article I thought that maybe Horner had gone of the deep end :tease:.....however, I still love his music and always will.

In "Troy" the danger motif is more like a rhythmic base than a danger motif. Maybe he used it so much because of the lack of time.
The final battle music (the track is called "Through The Fires, Achilles...and Immortality") is great. I think it's the best track on the album. It's like a big suite of all the themes and motifs. The best part of that track (an heroic version of the Achilles Theme) wasn't used in the film I think. I think Horner wrote it for the end credits but in the end it was replaced by the song "Remember" (which I thought was good, but I would have prefered the instrumental stuff. I mean come on guys, a song for a movie like "Troy"... It probably had to do with commercial reasons ;))

Haha, what do you mean Jeremy? (I haven't read this interview but if you give me some examples I'll probably understand what you're talking about ;))

You're just so right ! At last someone who is clever about what he says about Horner ! Thanks for rationalizing the Horner bashing like this !

For TROY, the End Credits are actually after the song in the movie. On the soundtrack it's the end of the cue you mentionned Dennis.

If someone like beautiful animated music and songs a la Alan Menken, don't miss AN AMERICAN TAIL : incredibly fine and mature score, certainly because Don Bluth used Jerry Goldsmith just before in The Secret of NIMH, so he wanted to keep that mature musical sound. And the songs are funny and inventive, you just can't stop singing them ! BTW the leading song "Somewhere Out There" was a hit when the movie was released, 10 years before "My Heart Will Go On".

For Pogel : Great Adventure / Action / SF Horner scores :

The 80’s side :
Battle Beyond the Stars (pure fun/epic 80's SF)
Stat Trek II & III (pure fun/epic 80's SF)
Brainstorm (serious 80's SF a la Abyss)
Krull (pure 80's Fantasy)
Uncommon Valor (action)
Commando (action)
Cocoon I & II (moving SF a la E.T.)
An American tail (moving adventures)
An American Tail II (pure grand western)
Aliens (serious SF/action)
Project X (serious/moving adventures)
Willow (pure 80's Fantasy)
The Land Before Time (moving adventures)
Honey I Shrunk the Kids (funny pure 80's adventures)

If you like the 80’s adventures sound, all these soundtracks are absolute fun ! Especially Horner’s Star Wars (KRULL) to Horner’s E.T. (Cocoon) if you like the sound of these two John Williams scores.

The 80’s fun’s continuation in the early 90’s :
Rocketeer (great adventures)
The Pagemaster (great fantasy/adventures)
Casper (funny and moving adventures)
Balto (moving adventures)

The Great epic (but much more serious) adventures in the 90’s and 2000’s :
A Far Off Place (moving adventures)
Apollo 13 (moving adventures)
Braveheart (moving/tragic epic)
Legends of the Fall (moving/tragic epic)
Titanic (moving/tragic)
Deep Impact (moving/tragic)
Mighty Joe Young (moving aventures, very exhilarating though !)
The Mask of Zorro (adventures)
Enemy at the Gates (tragic epic)
The Perfect Storm (tragic adventures)
The Missing (tragic and moving western)
Troy (moving / tragic epic)

No boring/minimalist score here, for sure ! ;)

My favorite Horner scores as for so far I have are Titanic, Aliens and Windtalkers. They're good. Windtalkers has a good theme, Aliens, suspenseful and Titanic has good relaxing music.

Cool, all those scores for me!...oh, wait, you just mean the list ... :D

I've already bought Deep Impact on ebay for one dollar.

Ah, sorry about that. Thanks for the info though ;)

By the way, I think your list is great, but a couple of scores on the list are scores you have to listen to many times to fully appreciate them. That's why I wouldn't recommend the following scores as an introduction to Horner's work (of course it's not the case that Pogel never heard of James Horner before but still):
- Honey, I Shrunk The Kids
- Project X
- Brainstorm
- Commando
- A Far Off Place

Hey, not bad Pogel! :smoke:

Cheers,

Dennis

Yeah you're right for these titles Dennis, except perhaps Brainstorm which impressed me very much when I heard it for the first time.

Batteries Not Included is a nice score, I`ve got it on Lp only but still a nice listen

my 10 favorites among those Horner scores is:
The Mask Of Zorro
The Gorky Park (you gotta love the main titles)
Aliens
Another 48hrs (short amount on the CD, but better than nothing)
Commando
Red Heat
Clear and Present Danger
The Pelican Brief
Patriot Games (my very first Horner soundtrack album that i bought)
Field Of Dreams

and it is in that order

You're much action/suspense-oriented, Toby... ;)
Good scores though !

I love "Brainstorm", it is a masterpiece. I've never heard a score with such great contrasts; you got classical sounding music, modern/avant garde sounding music, religious-esque choir, everything. For me the score is like the evidence that Horner knows a lot about different styles of music. But I understand if there are people who don't like this score very much. Some parts of the score are quite "noisy" and abstract. At first, I didn't think "Brainstorm" was that great, but it grew on me. It gets better with each listen, that's for sure.

Dennis

:hmm: Hmm... Maybe I should give this score another try. :thinking:

Alright, I've been listening to Deep Impact for some time now, here are my thoughts:

The first thing that is immediately obvious, is the relation in the orchestration with Titanic in a few tracks.
However, the score offers enough original material to stand on it's own.
The themes are strong and memorable throughout, the piano theme that's introduced in the very beginning is especially catchy.
Unfortunately, there are not as many action or suspense cues I would have expected.
The score is to brooding, sometimes to slow, mainly due to the virtually unbearable length of 10 minutes plus per track.
Some of the best material is 'hidden' within those tracks, but you have to sit maybe through 6 minutes of material that's not interesting immediately.
On the positive side I have to say one thing, though. On a first listen, I usually run through every track, listening to tiny bits in the middle of tracks to know what's expecting me.
On Deep Impact, I quite often stayed with the music, which doesn't happen normally.
After the first and second listen, I would rate the score a fair 9/15,
for good themes, interesting ideas and a pleasant listen, but ultimately too much uninteresting stuff in between.

Well the Choir....James Horner loves it to use this synth-choir I guess..
He used it also in the Titanic score- especially in The Sinking...and many Ostinatos,Oh God I love Ostinatos!!! :music:

BWT:The Theme of Deep Impact remembers me a bit on some of Alan's scores....no idea why :hmm:

It's not just the choir.
I also forgot to mention that some sections remind of McCarthy's StarTrek:Generations.
Also due to orchestration and style. Purely coincidential probably.

Hey Dennis I got a Video for you and the other James-fans where James is conducting Titanic...
http://www.backtotitanic.com/makingof.html

Thanks for the video that's great !!

About DEEP IMPACT. The more you will listen to it, the more you will love it. I had exactly your opinion Pogel when it was released and today it makes me shiver from the beginning to the end. Very warm, fine and grand symphony with beautiful themes. the best track is in my opinion "Drawing Straws". And just after this stunning moment, the End Credits presents the main theme with a children choir. That is typically Horner and so tenderly moving...

Great Score.....
I saw the movie and I directly had this score....I listened to it long time ago but I should do again :D

I especially like the cue where the astronauts are on this first small meteorite and put the bomb on it...I can't remember the Title of the Track...I think it was Drawing Straws too but I am not sure... :hmm:

Yes, he loves it but it’s so annoying <_<

If it's an action cue, it must be 'The comet's sunrise', when the astronauts get burnt by the acid on the meteor when the sun rises.

Ah yes and one of the Team gets blind yes!!!

I've always thought that those strong and energic brasses that begin the cue remind me Superman (John Williams). I'm not sure why.

Yeah, I saw that one before but thanks anyway. Horner/filmmusic fans should also check out the following link, which contains video samples of Horner conducting and talking about "Enemy At The Gates" (Thanks to Nick from the Hornershrine):

Horner on "Enemy At The Gates"

Enjoy,

Dennis

Hey,
I don't want to annoy someone, but Horner looks like Italian or someone from south..