Hey everyone.

What I wanted to share with you is this new piece of mine. It’s a completely orchestral one, and something that I’ve been thinking to do for a long time. It’s just the basic idea in a small extract, and therefore it’s a sample. If things turn well I will turn it into a complete piece one day. Anyway I am currently experimenting with my sound and I would really love some input from you guys plus this I think, is the most serious work I’ve done ‘till now. I would like some thoughts on it, if you want. And by that I don’t necessarily mean positive ones! What I want is honesty :) Positive comments aren’t good for anyone if they are not honest and true.

Oh and you might want to pump up the volume on this one hehe.

Download link (bottom of the page) :

Theme for Orchestra, part I
http://users.auth.gr/~dichrist/samples.html

That’s for now, thanks for your time!

Yours,
Demetris

p.s. So, if you have music of your own, bring it in!

Every attempt of doing something creative with music is great. I really like your piece Demetris, mostly because of the deep three note bass. This reminds me a little bit of David Arnolds "Dawn Of The Species" cue from Godzilla. I just love that! A lengthier version of that cue with an extension of the ending would be great IMO.

The "compositions" (some would rather call it 3-days-hack-job) i did for "white crime" have hit some sort of demand (yeah, there are indeed people who want to have all of the music from the film ;) ).

There will be a "promotional" cd-r for everyone who is interested with all the music from the film (including the stuff of the other composers, the songs and unused music).

I would share the new album versions here but first i have to figure out how to do that :help:

Thanks my friend, really appreciated.

You mean you want to put samples of your music, online and don't know how to do it?

Yeah, thats the problem :(

how large are they? maybe i can host some stuff

I am very impressed with your music, Demetris!
It reminds me of something Thomas Newman would write, a brooding crescendo, it build and builds very powerfull.
It also sounds very classical in it's movement, quite varied - it really sounds like a lot of thought and care went into it.
On the more negative side, I can't really nail the musical "theme". It fows rather smoothly around this motif, maybe it's missing a more outright statement.
But in any way, it's much better then anything I could do...;)
I also like the rest of the music on that site, especially the Movement for Piano, Violin, Strings and Guitar. But is it just me or does the file "jump" towards the end? Little glitches in the file.


If anyone is interested, I recently put together a "suite" with some of my recent fooling-arounds with music, so if you can spare 11 minutes of you time, here it is:
http://pogel.net/sweet_suite2.mp3
(For individual breakdown and tracklist see ID3v2 tag in the file)
(BTW, Dimitri, I "borrowed" a piece of music/sound from you for the transition to the last section)

Thanks Pogel, appreciated!

About what you say on the theme, i know that it needs more development but i wanted the piece to be small, sample-like and convenient for downloading. It will be reworked in the future :) I will download your piece as soon as I am able, for any comments look here.

“ But is it just me or does the file "jump" towards the end? Little glitches in the file.”

Are you talking about that piano violin and guitar piece?

Thanks,
Demetris.

Demetris,

I listened to your orchestral piece and really enjoyed it! I agree with BigMacGyver that he end needs to be extended. Even more motion and rhythmic ideas can be added with that great theme you have written. One idea I kept singing in my head while I listened to the end of your piece was a string motif that would add more motion (high strings playing 8th note triplets on beats 2-4 of each measure....beat two triplets would be runs up leading to the first note of the triplet in beat 3....the beat 3 and 4 triplets would be identical and would be runs going down.....). Or something like that. Just an idea for another element that could be brought in.

Also, I was curious to know what sounds you use to create your music? The better you can make these sounds sound real the better your composition will sound. I would love to hear this piece with a live orcherstra. If you can afford to purchase sample libraries like: Vienna Symphonic Library, Garritan Strings, Quantum Leap Brass, etc. then it would be worth your while. Also, did you use a sequencer like Digital Performer, Logic, Cubase, etc. to create your music or is it being played by a notation software like Finale or Sibelius? Just curious. To see what I use to produce my music check out my website...click on the home studio link. The web address is below.

I would love for you guys to check out my website and listen to some of my music. I would love feedback. My site is (www.jeremydossfilmcomposer.com). I think my best work is the following pieces (There Must be a Mistake - blues piece, Cafe Amor - romantic piece, and Who's in the Basement - suspenseful piece). But feel free to listen to anything I have posted.

The 7 cues that are of interest run 10:49 as a whole and are about 109 mb as wav. The longest cue runs 2:17 (22 mb wav) and the average length is about 1:20 per cue.

Pogel, the solo voice in your cue sounds great! If this is a sample it must have took a lot of time to make it sound so realistic. I also like the "medieval" sound with the harpsichord. A very elegant and detailed instrumentation. The action music at the end puts my "white crime" cues to shame. This stuff is unbelievable and so complex, i guess i will have to listen to it several times until i get every detail of this piece.

Well, too damn large.

Send me an e-mail at christodoulidesd@scoremagacine.com if you want to send me the cd in order to edit, make them sample-like and put them online at my page as a seperate POGEL ( ;) ) page. let me know what you think about it.

Thanks for all those comments Jeremy!

I would love to hear to your music, and i'll download some very soon. Of course for all the feedback, look here.

I use KORG Triton Le 76 and KORG SP-500 workstations with racks and all, along with a simple sequencer software. No finale or any notation software for those ones, I performed everything one by one on my korgs. I am trying to learn cubase sx 2 now but it's damn hard. About sound libraries, i would like to have some of them in the near future but money is a huge issue now since i am a university student and it's quite hard.

Haven't listened to yours yet but what do you use? and how much money are we talking about a good orchestral sound library?

Cheers,
Demetris

i've corrected the clicking problem of the 'Movement for Piano, Violin, Strings and Guitar (05.02)' piece btw :) thanks for the heads-up

Demetris:
"Are you talking about that piano violin and guitar piece? "
Yes, it starts at about 2.30. The sounds stopps for just a little moment. I've downloaded it several times, I can't imagine it's my connection. It's really quite beautiful, but these glitches are very irritating.
EDIT: Gone now ;)


Jdoss, I've listened to your music a while ago when you first posted the link. It's a lot material. Unfortunately, it's plaqued by every digital-composer's worst enemy (I guess): Some sound quite artificial.
(But in a way it's good so you can see through the composition.)
Most of your music is not my taste, especially the blues.
But I LOVE "Heroic Fanfare" and especially "Hanging by a Rope". They sound like out of an old-fashioned war-movie. Very traditional cinematic composition.
They are best pieces from your site in my humble opinion, and that's really a tough pick.
Please make more of them! It's a real treat ;)
I will go through more of your music and add some more feedback.


MBG, thanks for nice words I guess.
Funny enough, the 'solo voice' is a (digital) sythesizer of Reason2.0 I tempered with a bit, like many instruments, because I don't have that much samples.
I wish the sound would be more clear, especially on the stuff at the end, it tends to "collaps" to one center-mud, but it's reasonable enough I guess.

Samples and composition are a problem for me. I am not using any composition program or stuff like that (musically speaking, i am just too stupid to use them). Instead, i record the instrument kits from my keyboard Yamaha PSR-290 (the beginner model with less keys but a nice palette of sounds) via the microphone connection of my pc. As soon as i have them in the editing program i start to modify the raw keyboard samples (additional hall and stuff like that). Then it becomes a puzzle game when all sounds have to be combined to form the cue. All that is done by ear, i still have problems with the tempo/rythm sometimes.

This does not seem to be a usual procedure, but it works.

Pogel,
Thanks for all of the comments. I appreciate when people are honest about what they think. I am like Demetris...I don't want any of the comments sugar coated.

Several of my pieces do have a problem with sounding artificial....most of them are older pieces before I purchased new and improved sounds. I am either going to rework them or completely take them off of my site. However, most of the cues on my site are of live players. All the live players are professional studio musicians here in Los Angeles (well except "Heroic Fanfare" they are college musicians). I have had the opportunity to use many musicians that work with Thomas Newman, Michael Giacchino, JN Howard, etc.

Demetris...I have listed everything I use to create my music on my website. It is on the "My Studio" link (www.jeremydossfilmcomposer.com).

Demetris....the Vienna Symphonic library is considered by most to be the best sample library....it will run you around $3,500.00 US dollars....you can buy smaller versions of the library for less. However, there are a couple of libraries that are good that would not cost that much.....Quantum Leap has a good Orchestral library....Garritan Personal Orchestra (this would only set you back $200-$300 US dollars)....and PS Advanced Orchestra is also good. The Vienna library though is used by all the pros: JN Howard, Zimmer, Debney, Silvestri, T. Newman, Horner, you name the Hollywood composer and they use it. I think everyone out there would be amazed at even when these composers use large orchestras they still use samples to make the bass bigger (T. Newman does this on almost all of his scores), JN Howard says that whenever he has bass drum he uses one or two live players and then adds a lot of sampled bass drum sound to get the sound he is looking for, and in many, many, many cases they add sampled strings to the live strings to sweeten the sound. There is almost no score these days that does not contain samples. You have to remember that samples are recordings of live players unlike synths that are computer generated sounds. If samples are handled properly it can be hard to distinguish them from the real thing. Anyway, I guess this is a little off subject. Sorry.

Thanks Jeremy.

Do all these libraries work with CUBASE series software?

To be able to play samples you have to have a sampler (hardware sampler or software sampler). Software samplers have become more popular since computers speed and memory size have increased.

I used Halion 2 (made by Steinberg...who also makes Cubase). The most popular software sampler is Giga Studio however, but it is pricey.

If you want to get around buying a sampler right now and just get good sample sounds then you can get the Quantum Leap Orchestral Library (it comes in Silver, Gold, and Platinum versions). The silver version goes for $295 US dollars. Check out this website and listen to the demos (http://www.soundsonline.com/sophtml/details.phtml?sku=EW-155).
It also comes with its own sampler. And yes Cubase can open it as a VST plug-in.

Another option is the Garritan Personal Orchestra (here is a link and it only costs $139 US dollars - (http://www.personalorchestra.com/). It also comes with its own sampler.

Here is a link to Vienna Symphonic library so you can compare the best with the rest....I am going to purchase this soon....EVERYONE SHOULD LISTEN TO THE DEMOS.....INCREDIBLE! SOMEONE HAS SEQUENCED A JERRY GOLDSMITH CUE....CHECK IT OUT HERE (http://www.vsl.co.at/).

I hope this helps. If you have any questions then let me know.

I enjoyed every cue of yours!!!
Demetris your cues are great especially the piano cue wich sounds really emotional and beautiful...The Orchestral Theme was also good but I prefer the Piano Motif wich sounds great (!), but I cannot deny that this is a real piano or?..... ;)
Jeremy I listened to your music a while ago and started with the Heroic Theme! I was surprised how great it was...I got the melody in my mind,heheheh and I love real orchestra used for action....
Moritz, your cue sounds also great! The last part seems to be inspirited by Jerry huh? :D Great work! And I can't hear the parts you "borrowed" from me... <_<

It would be also great if you would listen to my music....sadly I don't know how to put music into the internet as a link or something like that but here is the link for my homepage: www.dimitri-dodoras.com
Below mp3-demos you can find the music I composed with Reason and Cubase...I also have Logic but don't know where it went... :blink:

BUt is there any way toput a link here to share your won music?

Thanks Jeremy, really helpful post there. I'll see what i can do!

Dimitri, thanks for the comments. I'll listen to yours soon :)

Hey guys,

thanks to demetris, a sample of the final fight music from white crime is now online. Feel free to check it out here

I liked the piece. It has some interesting atonal processions and dissonance. Of course the sound needs improving but that's an area you can fix if you spend some money and learn how to use a software like cubase and all..keep it up ;)

It sounds great: has some great effects and great moments...it's thrilling like a duell! :D

BigMacGyver, my first reaction was: "OK, interesting.". I really don't know if that's a good thing or bad thing ;)
But it certainly sounds quite good, it's nothing like you said (Zimmer vs. Fiedel). I think it's a quite effective suspense piece.
I impressed since I know just technically how you did it. I'd also really recommend to get some sort of software.

Dimitri, update your site, you've done much better cues since then!

I can't wait till Dennis finds this thread.


Also, in the light of this thread, I have revamped my music-website. I tried to include a low-quality and a high-quality file for each cue.
http://www.pogel.net/music/
I like "Egypt" and "Mellow Meadows Melody" best.


BTW, I find the discussion about the equipment very interesting. Obviously I am just a hobby-composer, so I use Reason 2.0 for everything (well, not editing).
I have a few self-made samples from different synthesisers and also trackers, but nothing compared to you guys.
(And it's enough for my purposes - otherwise it's way too much money too spend ;) )

BigMacGyver....I listened to your piece and enjoyed it. I liked the percussion stuff right after the beginning and thought I would hear that little motif later. I also liked the Middle Eastern sounding instrument near the end. I would have liked to hear more of that. Although, I am listening to it out of context. I am sure everything makes since against picture. I wish I could see that scene with your music.

Has anyone went to the Vienna Symphonic Library page and listened to the demos....there are demos of famous classical pieces, demos of orignal works....all demos were created using on Vienna Library sounds....there is a Goldsmith cue from Air Force One.....pretty incredible stuff.....the site address again is (http://www.vsl.co.at/).

Pogel, I justed listened to your Egypt piece and it is very good. I like the theme. I have it in my head now and it will not leave. It made me want to dance. I will listen to more of your music later.

Anyway, I have enjoyed listening to everyones stuff.

I am really glad that all of you enjoyed the piece. Thank you all for the kind words!

The hard thing was not so much to find ideas but making it fit the action. This fine-tuning consumed most of the time. The best way to do that was to compose little sequences of music (about 10 to 15 seconds long) and then combining them so that they fit whats on the screen.

The heroics at 1:23 are actually 3 pieces of music. We see the hero chasing the bad guy on foot. The hero is hiding behind a tree, the bad guy is turning around and shoots at him. The hero is shooting back and thats where the sharp string outbursts step in to underline several shoots and giving the shootout some kind of melody. Then, the bad guy is out of ammo and the hero is running to him. This reminded me of some sort of wrestling contest, so the music becomes a climax until both hit each other. All that does not last longer than 20 seconds and three different cues are used within this time.

The ethnical instrument is actually a high pitched electric guitar sound. In this moment, we see a close up of the gun lying in the grass and the girlfriend of the hero is getting it. It is a kind of foreshadowing what will happen with the bad guy but it is still keeping it interesting wether she will shoot the bad guy or not. It was not so much about the instrument but about having a weird effect to create a disturbing feeling.

It is a pretty effective cue in the movie and i remember everybody was dead quiet during that scene. When the bad guy gets shoot after the music was over, some laughter returned. I guess it ended too early but i only had separate scenes to work with and not the entire ending, so there was no way to extend it.

If there is still some interest i can ask Demetris to put up one or two more cues.

Ok I updated my site now with new music below http://www.dimitri-dodoras.com/html/mp3_-demos.html

I agree, this thread was a great idea, JDoss. A lot of talented people here, and a lot of wonderful music. (I'm still playing your cues, I also love the Vampire one)

The VSL is really impressive, as is the EW/QL Symphonic library. You really can do a lot of good things with these samples, but I guess it takes a lot of mixing-time too.
I really want to know how much time they spend with that Air Force One Demo.
I read that EWQL also has some choir samples where you can even let it sing certain lyrics.
Of course, any of these products is far beyond my budget, so I have to keep dreaming.
Glad you liked the Egypt piece.

I like your explanation, BigMacGyver. I bet it works wonderfully in the film.
Any chance we get to see it? Maybe just the parts you scored?

And I love Mechanical Man, Dimitri. It sounds quite Basic-Instict-y at times ;)

...thanks Pogel. I also really enjoy the music you all composed!
It was a really good time to open this threat! Strange it hasn't been opened before cause here are so many composer... :yahoo:

I think it's hard to compose a wild cue with many instruments like a real orchestral cue. Orchestra is the best way IMO!!!

"If there is still some interest i can ask Demetris to put up one or two more cues."

we will do that really soon :)

Dimitri,

I heard your 'THE RIDE' and i quite enjoyed it. Especially the eastern coloured and influenced percussion. The strings and synths melodic sounds reminded me of MEDIA VENTURES.....quite interesting stuff really. How do you compose your music? Sound library? (sorry if you said it before, I missed that)

comments on Pogel's, Jeremy's music and more on Dimitri as soon as they are downloaded. :)

Pogel thanks for the comments. I am glad you like the "vampire slayer" piece. That was an assignment in college. I was given a cue from a Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode to score for practice. It was from the hush episode if you know anything about Buffy. Christophe Beck scored that episode...I think. Anyway, that is what I came up with.

Ya, the VSL is amazing. Mixing takes awhile but really no longer then most people spend mixing live players. I am saving my money for it. I have a friend that has it and when he combines it with just a few live players it can be very convincing. It sounds like a full orchestra. As for the vocal libraries you should check out the Quantum Leap: Voices of the Apocalypse (incredible stuff). I have not heard the one you were talking about but have been told it is wonderful. A string library lots of professionals use, and one I did not mention before, is made by Sonic Implants. Here is a link to there site (http://www.sonicimplants.com/ProductList.asp?Premium=Y&lstShipCode=All&lstSort=Instrument). They are pricey though. If you are a student then you can purchase it for about half price. I guess the saying you get what you pay for is true when it comes to samples.

I will listen to more of your music later. I have listened to the Egypt piece several times. I can't help but tap my feet everytime I hear it. Very addictive.

I have a Programm called Reason...it's quite good for music. With reallygood samples. It has it own samples and in a very good quality!!!
And for the editing I use Cubase and sometimes Logic...I prefer Logic nut use Cubase... :D

Thanks for the comments well I think many of the cues I composed sound Media Venture-like. But this is not what I want... ;) I think it has to do with the percussions and the use of those samples....
Hey I listened to all of your music twice now, all! Sounds great
And Jeremy I think it was the Chase wich sounded very familiar to me cause I had the melody in my mind of listening it before.... :music:

Jeremy and all, the info on the sound libraries and software is most valuable. Thanks !

More comments on everyone's music soon!

Someone wanted to give me this Vienna Libary but it didn't go so I will try to get it from him another time... :D

It sounds very very good indeed!!!!

Dimitri,

I heard your ‘Mechanical Man’. Nice stuff, the beginning slightly reminded me of Marco Beltrami and then, in the rousing end, MV. ;) You might want to try a little more cohesive structure and perhaps, a tighter thematic approach, generally speaking, so that your music can escape a little the sphere of atmospheric. Of course this is my opinion, and in the case you haven’t already done that in some pieces I haven’t downloaded yet. I was also going to ask you this in private, but since I think it considers more people, are all your sounds from REASON? I need more info on that software please, where do I get it, for how much, how does It work….blah blah, you know 

Thanks in advance and keep it up, more info on people’s music soon.
:)

Yes! All Reason, thanks for the comments :)
It's a programm wich got his own samples...It's quite great!
You don't need any keyboard for it. I c ompose evry cue with the mouse and the hand....it's great search for it! ;)

BTW: I am not so enthused if people tell me that my music sounds like MV because I try to attain even exactly the opposite ...But those samples just remain it like MV-music...I am sure it wouldn't if I had an orchestra! :D
And I am composing filmmusic. I have pictures in my head so it can be that there are often choped motifs and sequences in my music just to remind. This is the reason why Marco (if you said it sounds a bit like him I won't send it to him...but maybe it would be a great collaboration) told me to have a film as fast as possible.... :) Let's say I don't compose just music I compose music for a scene in my mind and that's a problem for many people because they mostly hear much of changes and edits in my music. But every cue I compose is for a scene and not just only music! ;)

Well, REASON is good for these athmospheric-type things.
If you want bad examples of what REASON can also sound like, just listen to my music....

nah! :nono:

I am downloading stuff from everyone here, but please be patient ‘cause my slow, modem connection sucks in these (and virtually all) cases! :)

Jeremy,

I heard your clips today, nice stuff! I quite enjoyed the marching drums and rising tempo in the middle of ‘western’ and the heroic theme that follows is very enjoyable and uplifting. Also the eastern / asian flavor or ‘Main Title’ although it made me constantly wait for a big outburst which never came. It would be nice if It did :) Of course as a romantic music freak I loved your ‘a lifetime together 2’ although I feel that It would be largely helped by a warm and soft string orchestra background, starting from its middle and covering to the end. Although notable is 'A general's decision' with its heroic brass lines and soft rhythmic percussion underneath

Demetris,
Thanks for the comments. I enjoy sharing my music with other people and getting feedback even when they don't like something. I actually have a version of "A Lifetime Together" like you explain. I just have not posted it on my site yet.
Thanks again,
Jeremy :)