Well, personally, I say it's Karate Kid, acknowledged throughout the United Planets of the 30th and 31st Century as the best fighter in the galaxy. After all, has Batgirl ever bested a Daxamite? And when was the last time Lady Shive took on Validus?

Let me know what you all think. :-)

Batgirl has beaten MANY meta-humans who have the level of Superman in fights. In her first few issues of BATGIRL she fought a meta-human who had super-strength and invulnderability. When he got hit, nothing seemed to happen.

And she kicked his sorry butt in the end.

She has battled demons, witches, meta-humans, beaten Lady Shiva who is the world's deadliest assasin and god knows what else. She was trained from the day she was born to be the ultimate human weapon.

She actually has was could be considered a precog ability. She was trained so intensely growing up that she now has the ability to read the human body like a language. Anything that he opponent would even consider doing, she would be aware of it, before they would.

DC has already said time and again, that she is the best fighter on earth and in the universe of DC.

And Karate Kid is the best fighter in the Galaxy. He has taken down Daxamites, who have superman level abilities, and fought against mobs of aliens. He has broken through a force field using only one kick. He's taken on Validus. He is virtually unstoppable, the best fighter in the 31st Century and the DCU overall.

Don't care, in my book Batman is still the better. Batgirl and Nightwing come in a close second.

I agree with Alan. Of course I never really got into Legion so I know next to nothing about Karate Kid, same deal with Slade, but unless he could read body language like she could, or was so fast and strong that it made no difference, she'd beat him.

Yeah, but all those Legion books are BB.

Before Batgirl.

Batgirl has been estabilished as the greatest fighter in DCU. All she ever knew until a year ago was fighting.

Karate Kid would try to throw a punch and before he knew it he would be lying face down with all his limbs broken, while Batgirl was busy filling her nails saying 'is that all you had?'

She was 6 years old when she killed her first man with one blow. Karate Kid is only a weak third place in comparison to her and Lady Shiva who is scarry dangerous.

Now hang on a minute- just because Karate Kid doesn't kill people does not mean that Batgirl is better than him. He's been training for just as long as she has, if not longer, from renowned masters of forms on dozens of different planets agross the galaxy, and is the unchallenged master of empty-handed combat in the 31st Century. Not to mention that he has an edge on Batgirl in experience, as he has been fighting not just people but incredible exotic threats for a very long time now. Now, I'll admit that either Batgirl or Lady Shiva could put up a good fight, but skill wise they are outclassed. Their only edge- and I will grant that this is an edge- is that they seem to be willing to kill to win, and Val won't do that.

I'm sorry, but Val is, hands down, the best fighter in the DCU, with Batgirl and Shiva as a close second and third, respectively.

Well, this is my last debate on the subject, because with all due respect, obviously you won't listen to reason and to what DC has established since Batgirl's introduction. :D

Batgirl at the age of 6 years old, did something that most people can't even imagine to do at that age. She in one switf move ripped out a man's throat. Something that Karate Kid had never even thought of at her age.

Batgirl is the greatest living weapon ever created. She only knows how to fight. She barely knows how to talk, doesn't know jack about real human interaction or anything else. She is a weapon.

Batgirl has been fighting people, humans and meta-humans all her life. She knows how to beat the heck out of someone who could be considered on par with Superman or Doomsday.

She would know everything that Karate Kid could think of before she could even bat and eyelash.

Karate Kid grew up around other people. She thinks like a normal person would.

Batgirl thinks only like a fighter would. She was raised with only Cain as her only human interaction. Cain knows every martial arts known to man. When Cassandra was 3 she was getting shot at with armor piercing bullets and learning how to assemble semi-automatic weapons blindfolded. She was always on edge, because Cain would attack her at any point in time during the day or the night. He would beat her to near death, so that she would learn to be the best there was.

By 4 years old she could beat up an entire gang of muscle bound men with guns and knives all by herself.

Batgirl earned her status as the best fighter in DCU.

I'm gonna throw in my two cents here and probably get more controversy going. In my opinion Batman is the best fighter because of experience. There are a lot of things in the martial arts that only get better when you practice and get into fights.

And when did DC ever say that Batgirl was the best fighter, in a comic book or some kind of press release?

Read any book they mention her in. They say she is the perfect fighter. She beat Lady Shiva who is the world's deadiest human being in existance aside from Batman. They always call her the best, and I have yet to see her loose a full out fight when she is at her peak of performance.

The only time she has lost a fight is when his is really sick, manipulated from an outside force like drugs or telepathic manipulation. Otherwise, she can't loose.

Personally as far as skill goes, I think Batgirl would beat Batman, he just wouldn't let it get to being a purely physical match and would win. And one thing, Batgirl has killed before when she was small, but she refuses to do it again. She was supposed to be fighting Shiva in a fight to the death and never had any plan to actually kill her, she's too broken up from the first death.

Right on, Marx

Um, Just a thing......
Most people would know at least one batgirl...abet the wrong one most of the time.
Karate Kid?? Wasn't he in a film?? :lol:
You can't be the best if your unknown.


FYI. She's kick The Bats tushie...would be close i guess due to mass and power....but she'd win.

Of course she never lost Robin, the hero never loses, thats the way it always goes. The only way a hero can lose is if they are inhibited someway, i.e. your example when she lost and when Batman lost to Bane after being sick and run ragged. And great, they call her the perfect fighter, for my money I will still take experience over youth. Its not only what you know, its how you use it, Batman is a master of the martial arts and knows how to blend and switch quickly between styles in a fight.

What do you mean the hero never looses? They loose all the time. The Titans and Young Justice lost when Indigo caused the superman robot to kill Troia and Omen. Superman has lost to Lex Luthor and Darksied dozens of times. Batman lost to Joker when Robin II died, when Barbara was crippled, when Sarah Gordon was killed, when Bane broke his back. Need I go on?

I already brought up when Batman lost to Bane due to mitigating circumstances. And how did Batman lose when those people died, was he beaten or did he accept defeat because someone had died. Also, how did Superman lose to Darkseid and Lex Luthor.

Batman lost because people died and were hurt. Because he couldn't protect them.

Superman lost recently when Darksied stole Kara from him. He lost when Lex Luthor stole the K-ring from him. When Luthor became President was a major defeat for Superman. Because Luthor caused a lot of pain and heart ache, and Clark was unable to stop him. He lost when Darksied killed hundreds of people in Metropolis. He lost when Doomsday Killed him.

Ok, the Doomsday fight was a draw, they killed each other. And we're not talking about the same kind of loss. You said that at her best Batgirl had never lost a physical fight. It was my point that no hero loses a physical fight when they are at their best. Regardless of who dies in the process, or whatever else happens in the fight the hero always wins. Collateral damage such as Jason Todd dying is a risk taken when engaging in battle. That is not a loss, that is a set back, a horrible one, but nothing more than a set back.

Superman didn't lose!! He blasted those anamatrons like they were crispy fried chicken when I cook. ASH!! Burnt crispy ash!
If he'd had known Kara was in trouble he'd have left the Amazonians to save her.....i guess even if it meant they all could have died

If you want to look at it technically. Superman beat Doomsday because Doomsday died upon impact and Superman was alive enough to say "Did I get him?", then he fell. Last man standing rules, even though in the long run he died and in the longer run he came back. Although if Doomsday and Superman did die at the same time Doomsday won because he came back to life first but I'm not going to get into that. :P

When someone dies, who ever it is that is not a set back. That is a loss. To call it a set back is very bad taste. That would be like saying a real life cop getting killed isn't a loss. It is a very painful loss for all those involved.

No, Doomsday was still alive... kind of, he came back to life shortly after. Superman was dead as a doornail.

And those are loses Sano. When you're job is to protect people and someone dies (NO MATTER WHO) it is a loss.

And Batman has lost in fights with Lady Shiva. Batman lost a fight with Prometheus.
So yes. Heroes loose. It comes with the job. No one wins all the time.

And Superman did loose, because Darksied stole Kara. It may be a temporary loss, but it is a loss none the less. I mean, Clark certainly looked pissed of to have loss Lyla to death and Kara to Apokolips.

Oh and BTW: Batman kickd Doomsday ass. Even if it was a weak clone, look how easily he handled them. If that is how the Doomsday Clones are, imagine what Bats will do to the real thing. :D :lol: :P :)

I voted Shiva over Batman.
Who else here is shocked?

Not me. You said it yourself once Jake.

Batman kicks butt, but his isn't the greatest fighter on earth. It's his intellegence that makes him the most dangerous man on earth. (Superman called Batman that during JLA: New World Order, before annyone says anything. :P )

Besides, Batman himself told people that Shiva could beat him in a fight.

That is a different loss than what I have been talking about Robin. Yes it is terrible in real life when someone dies. I'm not talking about real life. I'm not talking about people dying. I'm talking about heroes in comic books. In a PHYSICAL FIGHT, the hero wins. Characters die, things happen, but when it comes down to it the hero prevails in the end.

The same thing applies, Sano. A loss is a loss. Whether it be death or merely getting knocked out. Whether it is in a comic book or in real life. You can't argue that death can't be considered a set back, but rather a loss.

And the hero do loose in fights. It does happen. Otherwise, it gets repetative and uninteresting. The losses are as important to a comic's story as the wins.

Like I said, when Promethus invaded the JLA watchtower, Batman fought him. Simply a physical fight between the two. Promethus beat him.

Another time, Robin fought Harm. Harm beat Robin. (Cheap shot, but he still lost.)

Kilawog lost to Hal Jordon in Green Lantern. He was killed by Hall Jordon.

Robin II fought the Joker before he was blown up. He died.

It happens.

Doomsday did die completely, he just can't die permanently because of his physiology. Still counts as a loss. And you said it yourself, "weak clone" emphasis on the "weeeeeak", can't say who'd win with Batman vs. Doomsday until they really go at it. Though I haven't read that issue so I don't really know what technically happened.

Batman fought weaker clones of Doomsday. They were weakier in the sense that they weren't alive. They still did a number on Superman and the Amazons. One of them slapped Supes all the way across Themyscara. But Batman blew them up, drove an axe through their skulls and a lot more. And considering that there were dozens of the clones, that was pretty dang good.

Batman could so go toe to toe with Doomsday.

Never mind, we are obviously not thinking along the same lines. Besides, we have once again gotten far off topic.

No, we are thinking on the same lines. You said that heroes don't loose in a physical fight. I proved that they do. It happens.

But you are right. We were discussing who is the best fighter in DCU.

...But if we didn't go off topic, these conversations would end so soon. Boooooooooooriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing! :D

And how would an axe through the skull work? No brain or internal organs...unless they decided to change that...never thought it made sense.

Couldn't tell you Marx. All I know is Batman was going midevil on the clone with an Amazon axe. Right through the skull. Fun had by all. :D