Okay, this are the rosters (I'd like to see fighting):

JLA: Aquaman, Batman, Captain Atom, Flash (Wally West), Green Arrow, Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner), Jason Blood, Martian Manhunter, Plastic Man, Superman, Wonder Woman.

JSA: Black Adam, Captain Marvel, Dr. Mid-Nite, Dr. Fate (Hector Hall), The Flash (Jay Garrick), Hawkman, Hourman, Mr. Terrific, Power Girl, Sentinel, Wildcat.

C'mon good people, vote away!

First off, I would like to say that the Legion of Super Heroes would be able to beat either team, and likely both together. :P

That aside, I'm afraid that I have to conclude that, with the rosters listed, the JSA is outclassed in both power and skill. It would be a good fight, but unless something unforseen happens (Mr. Terrific shows up with kryptonite in his pocket, Batman catches the measles, etc.), I can't see the listed group of JSAers beating the JLAers that are there.

And btw, where did that image come from?

Sure, NutiketAiel... And then you'd wake up. :rolleyes: The Legion is a bunch of light weights in comparision to the JSA & JLA. End of story.

And Fab, the Image you posted came from an issue of JSA. I can't recall the exact number, but they were having a big old pot-luck party with the JLA & JSA.

BTW: Black Adam isn't part of the JSA anymore. He betrayed them recently and got sacked.

But I'd say that the JLA would win, though it would be a close call. Afterall, the JSA is the founding fathers of the DC Super-heroes.

But the reason, I'd say the JLA would win is because they have the TRINITY: Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman. Those three are the ultimate heroes of the DCU. They will always be the victors in any and all confrontations, because they are the best there are. Batman is the brain, Superman is the heart, and Wonder Woman is the soul. Together they give the JLA the edge they need.

And here, I thought that Plastic Man was the edge they needed to put them over the top. :rolleyes:

And, no way that any one of these teams can beat the Legion. Definitely not the JSA, and not the JLA either.

The Legion are not Lightweights. Some of them are comparative lightweights, but you get lightweights on EVERY team. They have more than enough Heavyweights like Mon-El, Saturn Girl, Cosmic Boy and Karate Kid to balance it out, not to mention white a few middle weights like XS, Timberwolf and Violet. And, of course, Brainiac 5- Super Genius. The Legion would so beat the crap out of them. :P

You are on your own in that opinoin, pal. :rolleyes:

Dude, the Legion is weak in comparision to the JSA & JLA. Afterall, the JLA is called the greatest DCU Super-team for a reason. And the JSA is considered the first team of heroes.

Meanwhile the Legion is on its way to cancellation... So... HA! :P

And so what if the Legion has got a few perks. The JLA & JSA has beaten better opponents in their sleep. Literally.

Oh, come on here. First off, the Legion outnumbers either team by either 2 to 1 or, depending on membership, 3 to 1. I would like to see when the JSA or JLA have taken on over 2 dozen experienced, trained, teamworking metahuman individuals with 1000 year advanced technology "in their sleep."

OK, so maybe the Legion is on it's way to cancellation (and pardon me while I go cry again :( ); doesn't mean they're a bad team. And, I might add that not that long ago a team of Legionnaires was having replicas of the JLA for lunch on Warworld.

That's the problem with the world today- nobody gives the Legion enough credit. They are one of the best super teams in history.

Now, the average Legion sub-team would get trounced by either the JLA or the JSA, this I concede. However, you cannot tell me that the entire Legion together could not defeat either one of those teams.

I admit I was dreaming when I said both together- that would never happen. But the Legion could definitely take down the JSA or the JLA. I'm sorry, but you're just in denial there, Robin.

No, I'm not in denial. I'm a realist. You're in a fantasy world, bro.

The JLA and JSA HAVE taken on 2 MILLION experienced, trained, teamworking metahuman individuals with 1000 year advanced technology in the past. I mean, jeeze how many times have they fought against entire planets of alien metahumans and been the winners. How many times have three of them fought against entire planets of metahuman warriors and been the winners.

Oh, and replicas... oooo... So scarry. They weren't the real team. That doesn't even count.

And I'm not saying Legion is a bad team, but in comparision to the JLA & JSA... well... :P And they may be good, but the JLA & JSA are a million times better. Afterall, if it weren't for them, the Legion wouldn't even exist.

I agree with Alan. There IS a reason why the JLA is the worlds greatest superteam after all :P

No offense Nutiketaile, but the JLA has three of the best(Batman, Superman, and wonderwoman.....the others are okay to iI guess J/K! )

With a classic combo like that....well....Jla would beat either teams hands down.....with a probably big fight, but they would win. Also have to consider the writers in this. I doubt their going to let their best group book loose. ;)

OK, first off, the Legion is based only in part on the legacies of the JLA and JSA. They are also based on the legacy of Valor, so :P .

OK, the replicas don't count. I shouldn't have brought that us. ::[oops]::

But, I'm telling you, outnumbered 2 to 1 if not 3 to 1 against a team of members with similiar power levels, advanced technology and alot of experience, the JLA or the JSA is going to go down.

And for your information, the Legion has also taken down entire planets filled with metahumans, so :P again.

I am being a realist. I don't know what you're smoking, though, if you think the League or the JSA can win under these conditions. If they did win, it would only be because the writers said "Oh, heaven forbid that the JLA actually LOSE" and made the Legion lose through some cheap ghetto twist of events.

Come to reality, Robin and Falcon. The Legion would win.

No they wouldn't.

The JLA and JSA don't loose to second rate heroes like the Legion (and in comparision to the JLA they are second rate. sorry, but its true). The only Way Legion would win is if the entire league and society were sick and on drugs.

It would never happen, but no matter what the Legion tried, the JLA and JSA would be better. Afterall, they are considered the best superhero teams in the DCU for a reason man.

OK, NOW you go too far! That was throwing down the gauntlet right there.

What do you mean, second rate heroes? The Legion is first rate by any standard.

Even if you don't think the Legion could beat the JSA or JLA, you can't go around calling them second rate. That's just hateful and wrong. they've saved the planet and the Universe countless times, they've given up some of their own in battle against evil, and have taken down the likes of Darkseid, Mordru, the Fatal 5 and the Time Trapper, among others. They were right there in the forfront of the Final Night, helping out right and left. The Legion of Super Heroes are first class heroes, on the same teir as the JLA and the JSA.

Even if we agree to disagree about who would beat who, we can at least not stoop to insulting the Legion. :angry:

Dude. The JLA is just the best. Thats how it is and its how its always going to be.

It's not like their my fav team(second fav...) Young Justice was my favorite but beyond a shadow of a doubt I know they would loose. Legion is just a bit less experienced than the JLA. Deal with it. I do.

<Poor Young Justice never stood a chance....>

NutiketAiel calm down. I'm not trying to get you pissed off, so chill out. These are characters, and thus up to different intrerpretations.

But a fact is a fact.

The Level 1 Hero Teams in the DCU are the JLA and JSA.

The Level 2 Hero Teams in the DCU are Legion and Outsiders.

The Level 3 Hero Teams in the DCU are Teen Titans and Suicide Squad.

It's all a matter of age, skills, experience and who is involved. The Legion is composed of younger super-heroes. Most of of them aren't even over the age of 30. The JLA and JSA have been doing their jobs for years longer, and have done everything first. They've established what it takes to be a Super-hero.

And again, the JLA is the greatest Super-hero team ever in the DCU. They always are saying that.

And it isn't like the JLA is my favorite team either. That is taken by the Teen Titans, who would be a third rate team in comparision to the JLA. JLA is actually number 4 on my list.

1. Teen Titans,
2. Young Justice
3. Outsiders
4. JLA
5. Legion
6. JSA

Okay, here are my two cents:

I think that the Legion has some members that are ubber powerful XS, Timberwolf, Ultra Boy just to name a few. Individually they're class A heroes. Period. Valor, well dude, that guys is in Superman's level, powerwise. Daxamites are about as strong, fast and resistant as Kryptonians. Period.

Does that mean, I think think they would beat the JLA or JSA? Not in a million years. Doesn't matter how good the Legion is, the JLA and JSA are better. I go even further there's not a super team IN COMIC HISTORY that can beat the JLA. Not the Avengers, not X-Men, not anyone. That's how good these teams are.

And yes, Alan, I know Black Adam isn't a member of the JSA anymore, he hasn't been in the team since the (amazing) "Black Reign". I just used my favorite Leaguers and Societiers (???). And the Pic is from David Goyer's and Geoff Johns' "Vice & Virtue".

Ah... IC. Very good Fab. And Black Adam was a good addition to the team, but we all knew it wouldn't last.

Allow me to disagree with you once again, Robin, in what you choose to claim is a fact. While I agree with you that there are certainly several tiers of DC hero teams, I disagree with your ranking of them.

Level 1- JLA, JSA, Legion
Level 2- Teen Titans, Outsiders
Level 3- Suicide Squad, Doom Patrol
Level 4- Metal Men, Superbuddies, Legion of Super Pets, Young Justice

I agree that the JLA includes in it the three greatest heroes of all time (Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman, even though I am not a big WW fan and never really saw the appeal of her). I am even willing to grant that they are, as everybody continues to drill into this thread, the best superhero team in comic history for a variety of reasons.

But that doesn't mean that they can beat everybody. The Legion has them out-numbered, out-technologied and, refering to superpowers, outclassed. Most members of the Justice League could take most Legionnaires one-on-one; only a fool would dispute this, and only the most unfavorable matches could result in a lone Legionnaire beating a lone JLAer (example, M'onel vs. Aquaman, or Anybody vs. Plastic Man). But team vs. team, because of the advantage in numbers and other factors, the Legion would win.

Against the JSA, this is even more clear cut because it is quite concievable that a number of Legionnaires could defeat a number of JSAers one-on-one with little difficulty (i.e. M'onel vs. Captain Marvel, Karate Kid vs. Wildcat, Shikari vs. Hawk Girl). When the advantage of numbers is thrown in, it is even more clear with whom the advantage lies.

Not to mention that there are Legionnaires with powers against which there is no equivalent or counter in the JLA or JSA. Neither team has any counter to Garth's transmutations. No JSAer has a reasonable counter to Saturn Girl's telepathy. No JLAer is able to predict the future like Dreamer. Neither team has anybody who can affect density, mass and gravity, like Star Boy. The list goes on.

The Legion is more versatile, has better technology and, flat out, has a two to one advantage in numbers at least (depending on which versions of the JLA and JSA we're talking about). The Legion could take either team.

Oh, and since it's been mentioned, my favorite teams:

1. Legion of Super Heroes
2. JLI (I miss those days)
3. Superbuddies (No, I'm not kidding)
4. Teen Titans
5. JLA
6. JSA
7. Outsiders
8. Legion of Substitute Heroes (Go Polar Boy! Go Night Girl!)
9. Legion of Super Pets (Again, not kidding)
10. Metal Men
11. Suicide Squad
12. Doom Patrol
13. Young Justice

JLA would win...I'm not going to explain myself...too much effort! :D

LOL Sweet and to the point, gotta love it. I agree, JLA'd win....over JSA and Legion *runs away before I'm involved in the argume- eh, discussion :D *

There's no way in heck Karate Kid could beat Wildcat. Come on man, ur vision is totally clouded. Ted Grant was the guy who (among others) trained Batman, Catwoman and several of the best fighters of the DC Universe.

As for Billy versus M'onel, that'd be a draw, if Valor should be so lucky. Legion CANNOT defeat JLA and JSA under any circumstances. That's a fact.

Oh, come on. Wildcat is a former prizefighter with delusians of grandeur. Karate Kid is the best martial artist in the 30th century, and has mastered countless techniques from all across the galaxy.

Look, we've seen that Kryptonians are more powerful than the Captain Marvel Family, and we know that Daxamites are as strong as Kryptonians. Finally, M'onel has more experience than Captain Marvel. Lar could take down Billy.

The Legion CAN defeat the JLA and JSA. THAT'S a fact (see, I can make facts too).

Sod the facts...they're characters in fiction, they defy the laws of physics half of the time! There are no facts...and any facts that seem obvious to contrive often get proven wrong anyway. All I know is JLA...Superman...Batman...Wonder woman...the three Gods of DC...they're gonna kick anyone and everyones arses!!!

Okay, first of all. Bixing is WAY, WAAAAAAAAAAAAY better than pretty much any martial art. Just watch the freakin' "ultimate fighting" or "pride" and you'll see that all the major winners (Wanderley Silva, Minotauro, Sakuraba) they fight Jiu-Jitsuo AND Boxe.

And They can take down any ninjutsuo, tae kwon do or whatever master. Ted Grant is the best hand to hand fighter in the history of the JSA. He can take down Karate Kid easily. E-A-S-I-L-Y.

Superman isn't more powerful than Billy, they're at the same power level. And Billy has an advantage over M'onel, because his power is magic base. Plus he has the wisdom of Solomon and power of Zeus. Trust me when I say, he can kick M'onel's ass!

First off, of all the people in the DC Universe that you could possibly argue would have a chance against Karate Kid (and Robin and I got into this arguement not that long ago about Karate Kid and Batgirl), Wildcat doesn't even make the grade. Wildcat isn't even in the same CLASS as Karate Kid. Wildcat isn't even in the same LEAGUE as Karate Kid. I find the idea of Wildcat defeating Karate Kid so outrageous, that I am laughing even as I write this. If Wildcat lasted longer than 30 seconds, it would be because Karate Kid was toying with him. The best hand to hand fighter in the history of the JSA. Whoop-de-do. Val is the best hand to hand fighter in the history of the GALAXY (with the possible exception of the current Batgirl, following my recent arguement with Robin). I'm sorry, Wildcat is going down.

That said, lets get back to Captain Marvel/M'onel. No, Captain Marvel could not kick M'onel's ass. I don't agree with you, but for the sake of arguement I'll grant that they are on the same level with regards to strength. M'onel is more experienced at being a hero and is, frankly, much more skilled. He isn't a 16 year old in a man's body- he is a 1000 year old hero who has gone toe to toe with some of the best fighters in the 20th and 30th centuries and come out on top. Captain Marvel would, at best, make a good showing of himself, maybe give M'onel a black eye or something, before he went down. The fact that Billy's power is magic based isn't really an advantage that I can see. Frankly, I'd bet on M'onel over any other DC hero, except for Superman, in one-on-one combat. That includes Batman and Wonder Woman.

Okay, first. Legion doesn't have anything over the JLA . The JLA has the brains, the brawn, the heart, the skill, the experience, and they are just way cooler. They couldn't loose, even if it were just the Trinity (Batman, Wonder Woman, & Superman) verse the entire Legion.

Besides, you make it sound like Batman doesn't have contingency plans to take out the Legion. Which he does. He met them, he's fought besides them. He's studied them. He knows how to beat them. (I'll leave you with this. It involves their rings... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!)

Now I agree Wildcat is strong, but he is getting on in years and I don't think he is as strong as he used to be. Sure, he could do MAJOR damage, but I don't see him being the victor.

Batgirl on the other hand would make Karate Kid cry without even trying. She is after all the best martial artist in the DCU.

CM3 has power over Mon'el. Because his powers are magical, and Mon'el can be hurt by magic. Booyah!

The Legion couldn't defeat the JLA. It couldn't happen EVER. End statement. ;) :P

Sorry Nutikeil, but Alan raises some EXTREMELY good points. Batman has plans to take down just about everyone(He 'accidentally' carried them out on the JLA once thanks to Ras a Ghul.) If he had the help of Wonder woman and Superman the (holy) trinity couldn't loose.

And just about no one can defeat Batgirl....unless they're a robot....then she can't read their body language,

And I'm ashamed to see YJ at te bottom of your list. It rocked! Grr you! Grr! :P

BTW, who the heck voted for JSA? Love the team and all but....

It isn't impossible for the JSA to defeat the JLA, Rach. Even with Batman having files on just about everyone. Although the JLA is the best team EVER, JSA is a close second.

Just check the roster, Mr. Terrific is pretty much the smarter man on the planet, some sources claim that Sentinel is the most powerful man on the planet, Dr. Fater is-- well Dr. Fate. Just to name a few.

I voted for the JLA, I'm just saying that is not impossible for the JSA do. If there's a team who could defeat the JLA in the comics is the JSA. But it'd VERY close and it'd have casualties on both sides.

I think, like everything else, it comes down to having the upper hand. Specially when we talk about people as powerful as the DCU characters. But if I had to bet on it, I would bet on the goof ol' JLA. Like I said, I'm just pointing that it isn't impossible for the old guys.

Agreed Fab.

It wouldn't be impossible for the JSA to beat the JLA (unlike the idea of the Legion beating the JLA. Now that is impossible). Afterall, the JSA ARE the founding fathers of DCU heroes.

But the edge that the JLA holds over the JSA is the Trinity again. The Amazon, the Detective & the Alien.

Terrific is smart, but Batman knows how to exploit that. Afterall, that IS why Batman is called the most dangerous man on Earth. He will exploit any strenght and weakness his opponent has.

Meanwhile Wonder Woman is one of the greatest warriors in the galaxy. She won't fall no matter what you do to her.

And Superman... well, he's Superman. 'nuff said.

Defeinitely. Legion beatin' any of the two teams is a risible idea at best.

And yes JLA has an edge, not just because the Holy trinity but jeeze, J'onnz is an almost complete hero, since he has overwhelming physical and mental powers, Wally is the greatest speedster ever and Aquaman's well, he's just plain scary.

Well, I just would seriously like to see this fight! Screw "Avengers & JLA". Gives us JLA vs JSA!!!

LOL. Hell ya! But you know they would never give us a clear cut winner. Afterall, they are both teams of heroes. You can't have the heroes beat up one another.

Maybe we should take over DC Comics and make this happen.

BWAHAHAHAHA!!! And make a few OTHER changes... Such as killing Stephanie Brown and bringing back Tim Drake as Robin. And perhaps keeping Kyle Rayner as Green Lantern. And bring back Donna Troy from the 'dead'.

My changes would be:

Give Guy Gardner a darn ring.

To Fire the guy who retire Tim Drake. Not cuz I don't like Spoiler, I do. But let's face it: His story telling abilities are inexistent!

To have a annual Mega-Ultra-Crossover, written by either: Marv Wolfman, Dan Jurgens, Brad Meltzer, Kurt Busiek, Peter David and/or Mark Waid.

To have Frank Miller and Alan Moore workin' in a regular mainstream title! Hey, one can dream!

Not retire Kyle 'n keep Hal as Spectre.

Well, let's see. What would my changes be...

1. NOT CANCELLING LEGION

2. Giving the Legion a second monthly title.

3. Sending "Superboy" back to the 21st century where he belongs.

4. Never ever ever ever mentioning Hypertime again.

5. Keeping Hal Jordan as Spectre.

6. Killing Kyle so John Stewart was the only GL of Earth.

7. Making sure the Legion was involved in the next big time crossover so that Karate Kid could face and trounce Batgirl, which is what everybody who isn't obsessed with the Bat-Team knows would happen. :P

8. Give the Superbuddies (Formerly Known as Justice League) another limited series, followed by a monthly title of their own.

9. Make Bart Impulse again. (I actually like the Kid Flash name- I just don't like it on Bart. He doesn't fit it.)

10. Have the assasin going after Tim instead kill Tim's father (and the step-mother too, for good measure), allowing Tim to return to being Robin and kick Spoiler out of the batcave so hard, she bounces twice.

11. Never ever ever ever ever ever even think about possibly mentioning the name Young Justice again (I'm sorry, but I really hated that book).

And that's just for starters.

And as for the previous arguement about Legion v. JLA and Legion v. JSA, can we just agree to disagree? I mean, from my perspective, you guys are obviously too married to the 20th century heroes (especially Batman) to see that they would outmatched, outnumbered and outclassed by the Legion. And from your perspective, I am sure that I am too stubborn and biased by my love for what you see as second rate teen heroes who wouldn't stand a chance against their 20th century counterparts. So none of us is going to win this arguement, especially since we all keep putting our own opinions forward as "facts." So can we just live and let live, agree to disagree and try not to get into this kind of arguement ever again?

Incidentally, this is one of the main reasons I chose Invisible Kid. I knew that if I picked Karate Kid, or M'onel, or XS or any of a number of others these kinds of arguements would be alot more frequent. :-)

:P A few thoughts on NutiketAiel's 'changes' because I'm bored... :P

1. Legion would maybe come back if we were in charge.

2. Legion doesn't need a second series, if it can barely maintain money for the first. Besides, mutiple books for the same Super-hero team rarely works out for DC. Don't ask me why.

3. Superboy in Legion would end. That I agree.

4. Hypertime was a cool story, so... No. Not going to happen.

5. Agreed.

6. Bite you tongue.

7. Karate Kid could NEVER EVER beat Batgirl, because that is impossible. No matter what happened it would never be possible. No self respecting writer would let that happen. :P Besides, Bat-clan popularity is a bit bigger than Legion so... not many fans would agree with that.

8. 'Superbuddies'... :( Can't we give them a decent name? I cuold barely stand the 'super-friends' when I was little.

9. Keep Bart in the Kid Flash uniform but give him the Impulse name. That's a given.

10. That's just sick and horribly morbid. The cool thing about Tim Drake, is he's isn't controlled by loss and pain like Batman and Nightwing. Tim simply has a deep rooted understanding of right and wrong. That's what makes him cool. I don't want his family to die. That's just wrong.

11. Young Justice would be resurected once again, and if ANYONE argues that... they get put into the BOX.

And sure, I say we drop the Legion thing. I mean, the fact remains the JLA would win hands down. :D :P They would never loose to the legion. Its a scientific impossibility.

You know... Like Micheal Jackson being considered a human, black, male. The guy looks like Skeletor from He-Man for goodness sakes!

I totally agree w/ Alan.

Except with the Superbuddies thingy. That was clearly a spoof of the name "Super Friends". I liked the "Formerly Known as Justice League" a lot though. I wanna see what kind of repercussions "Identity Crisis" will have on "FKAJL" follow-up "I can't believe it was the Justice League"

Wait, you mean they ARE doing a follow up?

And Robin, regarding my proposed solution to the Spoiler as Robin problem, I don't think that it is "Sick" or "morbid" at all. And, frankly, it's not just what I would do as a writer- I honestly think that that's what DC is going to do.

First off, in part Robin was motivated at first by disaster happening to his parents. Remember Obeah Man? His mother dead, his father crippled (he got better) if memory serves?

Maybe that's not how he's been motivated lately, but I see this as being a continuation of an immense time of trial and self-questioning for the Boy Wonder. I think that whether he can hold on to his view of right and wrong and his good intentions in the face of such an intense personal crisis would make for great storytelling.

At least, it would if the guys writing Robin at the moment weren't so crappy.

No, the Obeah Man incident was NEVER what drove Tim to be Robin. And don't try to correct me on Robin stuff, bro. You can't win. :P

Tim originally wanted to be Robin because he had a moral sense of right and wrong. He knew that Robin was needed and thus wanted to become Robin. When the Obeah Man killed his mother and hurt his father, it helped him understand the pain that a vigilante felt. He felt pain and regret, but he learned to control that pain and he didn't revolve his career as Robin around it.

But that was NEVER a driving factor for him to become Robin. He felt loss, but not like Batman and Nightwing did. He didn't let that incident control his life. He did it because he wanted to make a difference.

And wanting to kill off his entire family, just for the sake of killing them off, is sick. I'm sorry, but it would be like killing off Alfred for the sake of killing him off. It is just wrong.