Well, obviously the DCU's Greatest Detective is none ofhte than the Caped Crusader himself, Batman. But who comes in second, you might ask? Or, rather, I might ask. Or, should I say, I just did ask.

Although, I'm pretty sure that either Nightwing or Robin will win the poll, it would have to be either The Question or Ralph. I'll go with Ralph.

Why is Robin or Green Arrow on the list?

I mean, sure Tim Drake is quickly on his way to becoming one of the world's greatest detectives. Afterall, at the age of nine, he figured out the secret identities of both Batman and Robin. And sure, he's done some amazing things. But definently not the World's 2nd greatest Detective.

Not yet.

He's still learning from the World's Greatest Detective. Tim is roughly the 4th or 5th greatest detective. Give him a couple of years and then we'll talk.

As for Ollie... Well, I don't remember him ever being considered to be a great detective. He's smart, sure, but his detective skills have never been a strong suit as oppose to his razor sharp-wit and skills with a bow.

Only Dick (Nightwing) Grayson would fit the title of World's Second Greatest Detective. Afterall, Dick is a creative and brilliant young man, who has been in training with Batman (the World's Greatest Detective) since he was 8 years old and it's roughly twenty years later.

His skills as a detective, stragetist, etc, as led him to become the leader of the Teen Titans, the Outsiders AND the JLA. Not to mention he's considered to be the one of best of the third-generation DC heroes (i.e. Arsenal, Troia, Tempest, Flash III).

Sure Elongated Man and Question are good, but they weren't trained by the World's Greatest Detective. Not to mention, Ralph has been in unoffical retirement over the past few years.

Robin is on the list because, although I do not feel that he ranks as high as the others, there are some who would make the arguement (as evidenced by the fact that at least one person hasvoted for him so far.

And, call me psychic, but I KNEW you were going to bring up the fact that neither Ralph nor the Question trained under Batman. You know, just because someone hasn't trained under Batman doesn't mean that they couldn't have trained elsewhere and become almost as good. Batman isn't the be-all and end-all of detective knowledge. Yes, he's the best, but that doesn't mean that the second best necessarily had to have trained under him.

This is how I would rank the 5 greatest detectives in the DCU:

1. Batman
2. Enlongated Man
3. The Question
4. Nightwing
5. Robin III

And you'll note that there are no Legionairres anywhere on this list or in the poll. To be fair, however, if I were to make a list of the top 10 detectives in the DCU, both Shvaugn Erin and Invisible Kid would be candidates for it. ;)

Its still far too early in his career for Robin to be listed with the likes of Nightwing, Elongated Man or Question. Give him a few years.

And WHY did I KNOW you were going to be introducing a Legion reference... :rolleyes:

And the fact that Nightwing has been trained by Batman gives him a far greater advantage than the Question or Elongated Man. Batman's training programs are a thousand times better than anything Elongated Man or Question could develope. Not only because Batman is the World's Greatest Detective in the entire DCU past present and future, but he is the bootcamp sargent from HELL. He demands perfection from his students and that means Nightwing is near perfect as a detective.

Beside Nightwing has been documented in DC as being a detective nearly on par with Batman (Nearly being keyword). Nightwing skills as a detective and his training as a tactician and strategist has been directly involved to him becoming the leaders of Teen Titans, Titans, Outsiders and the Justice League of America. That's always been his 'super-power'. That's what makes all his enemies consider him so dangerous to them. Because he WILL deduce anything they plan.

And Nightwing didn't just train under Batman. He's had access learn the greatest detective techniques in the world. The police, CIA, FBI, A.P.E.S., S.T.A.R. Labs, etc...

My list...

1. Batman
2. Nightwing
3. Elongated Man
4. Question
5. Green Lantern-Alan Scott (He should have been on the list. He's considered a great detective as well.)

Robin will be added in a few years, but no quite yet.

I don't think you give Robin enough credit. While I obviously don't feel that he is second best, I do feel that he deserves his place in the top 5.

I wasn't aware that Alan Scott was a detective. I don't read very much about him; that's why I left the "Other" space.

And I'm sorry, but I still have to disagree with you about Nightwing. The fact that he trained with Batman and those others is not enough in my mind to push him over the Enlongated Man and the Question. He's good, but he's never proven to me that he is better than those two. Now, I will agree that he is the better tactician, and the better strategist, and the better team leader. All these things are true. Overall, he is definitely a better hero than the Question, and probably better than Ralph as well (not sure, I'll have to think about that one).

But when it comes to pure detective skills, Enlongated Man and the Question both beat him out. Especially Enlongated Man.

Dude, I can NOT believe that you just implied that.

I'm the world's BIGGEST Robin fan on earth. Do NOT even TRY to say that I don't give him enough credit. <_< Its because that I know him so well, that I am able to make a proper judgement call about his abilities. ;) I'm a fan who is willing to admit his faults as much as his skills. That is what makes him such a kick ass character.

He is the greatest detective on earth amongst the teenagers of the DCU. But in comparision to the adults, he still needs to develope his skills.

You need to read the Teen Titans from the 1980's then NutiketAiel. Nightwing was said flat out to be the world's second greatest detective more than once there. Deathstroke called him the absolute best of all the 3rd generation DCU heroes. Nightwing's training with Batman gives him a far greater edge than anyone else. When you're trained by Batman you are the best of the best, because that is demanded by the Bat. If you can't be the best, then he isn't going to spend the time on you. (except for Spoiler, but she doesn't count because the writer for ROBIN sucks and doesn't know the characters.)

And Elongated Man is a great detective, but he's not as good as he used to be. He's been in retirement the last couple of years. He hasn't spent as much time working on his skills, while Nightwing has. Nightwing has suprassed him, because Ralph has been slacking. He's still great, but Nightwing excelled.

As for the Question, well he's good, but he's never been considered as good as Ralph, Batman or Nightwing. He's just been called a detective. I don't recall him ever being called anything beyond that.

Yeah, but Nightwing doesn't have the nose.

I'm willing to concede that Nightwing may be better than the Question, but not Ralph. Enlongated Man is just the better detective, better than anyone but Batman.

I'm not disputing that he's the best of the 3rd generation heroes; he is, without a doubt. But Enlongated Man isn't a third generation hero.

As for Robin, I'm not sure what you thought I was implying. I really and truely think that he deserves his place as fifth of the top 5. A distant fifth, to be sure, after Nightwing or the Question, but still better than the next runner up. I'm really not sure about Alan Scott (as I said, I didn't read much about him and never saw anything that really indicated great detective skills to me), but he is an extremely talented young man, the best detective of the teen heroes as you so rightly pointed out, and deserves his place.

And, frankly, when he is older and more experienced, I have no doubts that he will surpass Nightwing as a detective. I think that Tim is destined to be the third greatest detective in the history of the DCU.

After Batman and Ralph, of course. :P

Yeah, but he doesn't have a bald spot either, now does he? Besides, I've always question his 'twitching nose'.

And I do believe that you owe me an appology NutiketAiel . Becuase you said and I quote 'you do not give him enough credit'. I find that crack to be a great and terrible insult, becasue that's saying that I don't know the character. The very first issue of BATMAN I ever owned was with Tim Drake's introduction in it. I've been a loyal reader since day one.

And Robin WILL suprass Elongated man in a few years. He'll become the world's Second Greatest Detective by the time he's 21. There is no doubt or debate about that. And when Bruce retires, Tim will take his place as the World's Greatest Detective.

If you read about Alan Scott when in the early days, he was a skilled detective. Not as an occupation, but his deductive skills were amazing.

Ralph is unoffically retired as I keep saying. He only helps fight crime occassionally. He doesn't work on his skills as much as he used to. Nightwing and Batman and Robin on the other hand are constantly up to their necks in detective cases.

According to the DC's RPG, Nightwing IS a better detective than both Question & Elongated Man. But that doesn't mean he's second the best dective in the DCU, accordin' to the RPG. There several others better than him:

Captain Comet, Hugo Strange, Nightwing, Per Degaton, Prince Ra-Man, Richard Dragon, Vandal Savage, Control, Mister Terrific I, Ra's al Ghul, Reaper, Doctor Occult, Vril Dox II.

Not to annoy u, or anything Alan, but Tim WONT be turning into the world's second best detective. He retired.

Please... :rolleyes: like that is going to stop him. He's TIM DRAKE. The kid doesn't know when to quit. That was why Bruce let him become Robin in the first place. Because he was the best.

Just because he doesn't offically go out a solve cases in costume, doesn't mean he still won't be solving them. He was solving the greatest secret in the DCU when he was still in grade school: WHO IS BATMAN & ROBIN.

Besides, if DC knows what's good for them, he'll be back in costume before the end of the year.

First off, I don't trust the RPG as a viable source for that kind of knowledge.

And if you were offended, I appologize, Robin, but I still don't think you give him enough credit as he is.

Of course, I think that you give him too much credit for what he is going to grow into; I still do not think that he will surpass Enlongated Man, and even when Batman retires he'll still be better than Tim.

And just because Ralph has semi-retired (emphasis on semi), he still keeps up on his skills AND his wife still gives him a mystery every year for his birthday, so :P.

Face it; the World Famous Enlongated Man is better than everyone except for the Bat Himself.

And please, call me Jim. "NutiketAiel" sounds so... formal.

Although, I hate the idea, I think that Tim will only be back in costume if his dad gets killed. And I don't know dude, I think that lil' Timmy might just live a regular life. Here's a quote from his secret file in THE DC OFFICIAL WEBSITE:

"In the end, Tim Drake does not aspire to be Batman. And he knows all too well that someday he'll give up the night, retiring his costume or stepping aside for perhaps a fourth Robin to become the Dark Knight's squire. And that's quite all right with him."

I agree with you about his Dad being killed, which I predicted a couple of days ago, much to Alan's disgust.

While Tim doesn't aspire to be Batman and will retire eventually, I don't think that that time has come just yet. There is still so much good he can do, and Tim sees that. He'll be back.

NutiketAiel... Watch it... >Sigh< I give Robin MORE than enough credit. But I'm also a loyal fan who knows the character inside and out. So do NOT EVER try say that.

I know Robin better than anyone and that is why I'm able to make the proper call on his skills. End of story.

And Tim WILL become the world's greatest detective. Everyone knows that he's next in line to become Batman. He doesn't want to be Batman, sure, but there is no denying that his skills could easily lead him to that.

One birthday a year doesn't help build Ralphs Skills. He's good, one of the best, but he's no Bat-Clan member.

Sorry, but Nightwing is the best of the best excpet for the Bat.

Nope, Nightwing doesn't hold a candle to Ralph. Sorry, Alan.

And as for Tim, however well you know him, you are not the be all and end all authority on Robin III, and I happen to disagree with you on this point. Will he one day surpass Nightwing? Without a doubt.

Can he one day assume the mantle of the Batman? Surely.

Will he? No, I am almost certain he won't. IT ISN'T WHAT HE WANTS TO DO. Tim wouldn't be happy as Batman, and so he won't do it. Not on a permanent basis, anyway. Besides, he isn't tall enough. ;)

Will he one day surpass the best (Batman) and second best (Ralph) detectives in the world? No, he will not. They are just too good. He may one day become the best detective alive, but that will only be after those two are dead. He can surpass the Question, he WILL surpass Nightwing, and he allready has surpassed pretty much everyone else, but never those two.

There you go again, revealing your inherent bias on this issue. Once again, I state- JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE HAS A BAT ON THEIR CHEST, OR WAS TRAINED BY SAME, DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY ARE AUTOMATICLLY BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE.

Nightwing is good, one of the best. but he's no Ralph Dibny.

Yes, Nightwing does. Sorry, but he does.

Besides, Tim's skills are already uber-grand and he's only 16. He will out do Ralph, by the time he's an adult, because his skills can only get better. Ralph isn't training anymore, he's already skilled enough as it is in his mind, and he certainly isn't better than Batman.

Ralph has already reached the extent of his training. Tim on the other hand still has a good number of years of training ahead of him. And his always at the center of learning new detective techniques.

And who says he isn't tall enough? Tim's only 16 years old. Boys keep growing until they are like 21.

And did you see him when during the 'SINS OF THE YOUTH' story? He was like 6'5.

NutiketAiel, I may not be all and end all authority on Robin III, but I know about him far more than many people. And I'm just saying that you should not say I don't give Robin enough credit, because I certainly do.

And who says Tim won't become Batman? Dick expected to become Batman when he was a kid, and that never happened. Things don't always turn out how they want to expect. Besides, I'd perfer him to be Batman than anyone else such as Jean-Paul Valley.

I agree Tim would be a preferable Batman to just about anyone else, except maybe Dick, but I don't think it's going to happen. I can't point to some reference and say "this proves he won't become Batman," it's just my opinion that he isn't going to do it.

And I was kidding when I said he wasn't tall enough. Notice the " ;) "?

Again, I didn't mean to offend you by saying that you do not give Robin enough credit. It was just my opinion that his skills as a detective at the present time are rated more highly than you were rating them. I wasn't trying to say that you don't know the character, just that I thought you were wrong on an issue of interpretation.

NutiketAiel, you REALLY shouldn't mention anyone being bias... Or do we need to discuss the JLA beating the living heck out of the Legion again? Despite that obvious superiority of the JLA, you still refuse to admit that the Legion (who are far younger and less experienced than the JLA) could loose. ;) :D

Yes, you may not agree with me, but saying that that I don't give Robin credit is basically saying that I don't know the character. And considering I own every issue of ROBIN, YJ, Teen Titans and majority of the Bat-books involving Robin, not to meniton every other little bit of Robin stuff, that is certainly not the case.

Not to mention, Robin is already starting to demonstarte Bat-personality traits. Heck, his shadows is already doing the thing where it starts to look like a Bat, despite the fact he doesn't wear a cowl, if you remember the YJ days. LOL. :D

Hey, I never said I wasn't biased, too. In my opinion, we're BOTH pretty biased- you for Robin and the rest of the Bat-Buddies, me for the Lads and Lasses of the Legion.

Although, I still think that the Legion can beat the JLA. HOWEVER, let's keep THAt arguement in the JLA vs. JSA post where it belongs, and confine this post to our Nightwing vs. Robin vs. Ralph debate. :)

I'm not saying Tim COULDN'T take over for Batman. As I stated, I think that one day he will reach a point where he would make a damn good Robin. I just don't think it's going to happen because, as I stated, it isn't what Tim wants. Frankly, I think the most likely future for Tim is something along the lines of what happened one of the times that Waverider glimpsed Batman's future during Armageddon 2001. I am refering to the one where Batman was framed for killing the Penguin, and Tim had become a politician some time before that. You know which one I'm talking about?

And saying that you don't give Robin enough credit is not saying that you don't know the character, just like if you were to say that I give the Legion too much credit it wouldn't mean that I don't know the characters. Just that I disagree with you on how much skill he has in a certain area.

Fine, but the fact remain Tim has the potential to be the World's Greatest Detective and WILL obtain that title in the futre.

Ralph has gone as far as he can go.

Tim still can go FAR further than Ralph could dream off. And even if Tim doesn't become Batman, doesn't mean he won't be the world's greatest detective. No one ever said that title would always belong to Batman.

I, for one, say that the title will always belong to Batman, so :P.

You're right, Tim hasn't reached his full potential and Ralph has. But just because Tim is still improving does not mean that he will ever improve enough to be better than the World Famous Elongated Man, much less Batman.

Tim will one day become the 3rd greatest detective in the history of the DCU, of that I have no doubt.

He will one day become the greatest detective in the world, because he will outlive Batman and the Elongated Man.

But he will never be the best in history, or the second best. Those titles belong to the Bat and the Rubber Band, respectively. Tim will be the third best in the history of the DCU, which is a very respectable place. Go Tim.

Why, oh why, of all the 20th and 21st century heroes, did Cosmic Boy have to induct "Superboy" as an honorary member? Why, oh why, couldn't he induct Robin? He would be so much better.

And picture Robin with a Flight Ring!

How can you say that, NutiketAiel? If in you books, Tim is the 5th best detective, then by the time he's an adult he would have far surpassed Ralph. Especially since Tim is learning more than Ralph will. Afterall, detective techniques are growing and changing. Tim is already superious to Ralph in the computer aspect (being the pupil of Oracle and naturally intellegent and skilled in computers) of investigating a crime.

Ralph is skilled in the old school detective techniques. Tim on the other hand is learning about all the more complex things involving computers, magic and etc.

Yes, Batman will always be the best, but Tim will over shadow Elongated Man when he's old enough.

And I agree! Why couldn't Robin or Wonder Girl get inducted as Legion members? They both have uber skills! And I think it would be cool to see one of them wearing the ring ontop of their own symbols.

The reason is because Superboy has always been linked with the Legion all the way back to the Pre-Crisis Clark Kent Superboy. Doesn't matter that Kon is the same Superboy, he gets automatic linkage to the Legion.

:blink:

OK, now I know how you felt when you thought I was questioning your knowledge of Robin.

As YJUTT's resident Legion Expert (anyone who wants to dispute my claim to that title can step right up and challenge me, btw), I am well aware of Superboy's links to the Legion. That part of the question was rhetorical.

But while Robin could never be an active member, he would make an excellent Honorary Member and I think he should have been inducted as such after he helped the Legion beat Computo.

Wonder Girl has never, to my knowledge, worked with the Legion, but it would be interesting to see that. maybe there will be a Legion/Teen Titans team up sometime in the near future.

As for YJUTT, who knows; maybe Invisible Kid will induct a few honorary members while in the 21st century. Of course, technically he doesn;t have the authority to do so under the Legion Constitution, but allowances can be made given his circumstances and I;m sure his reccomendations would be confirmed when he got back.

I guess we'll see. B)

I wasn't mentioning the Superboy link to you, NutiketAiel. That was for all the readers who aren't hip to Pre-Crisis Superboy & Legion. Not everyone remembes the Pre-Crisis stories.

As Wonder Girl and Robin being honory inducted Legion members, that would be interesting to see.

But yeah, I don't think Invisible Kid has the authority to induct people in the Legion. Otherwise EVERYONE would be a Legion member at one point or another. LOL.

Honorary memberships must be approved by a vote of the General Membership of the Legion, as per their Constitution.

However, as the senior Legionnaire present and a Team Leader, Invisible Kid has the authority to temporarily deputize individuals as Legionnaires to help deal with a crisis or ongoing situation; at the next meeting of the general membership following such deputization, the individuals so deputized MUST be immediately considered for Active, Reserve or Honorary Legion Membership. Neither Wonder Girl nor Robin qualify for Active or Reserve Membership (because neither lives in the 31st Century and because Robin has no intrinsic Superpowers), but they can be made Honorary Members.

Thus, Invisible Kid could, in good conscience and on his own authority, give them flight rings and deputize them as honorary members with the intention of having their memberships confirmed at the next meeting of the General Membership that he can attend. Should they (for some reason) vote down said memberships, their flight rings will be revoked at the earliest opportunity (meaning as soon as Brainiac 5 can send someone back to the 21st century to pick them up). So there. :P

'So there...?' Um... yeah... sure... :huh:

Yeah, I'm the Robin voter, of course, he's the only one I've really read about so there's a total biased based off of that. :D