As usual, part one of the semi-final will be done next week, but so you won't have to wait to get your clickin on the second part will be posted right now. Would the Kid of steel prevail against the witch? Vote and opinionate away!

Sorry gang, but this is one fight that has one and only one possible outcome.

Raven's abilities include broadcast empathy, pain dispersion through contact and long-range teleportation. Raven can also project a spirit entity known as a 'soul self'. Her body is also a door way to multiple-dimensions. Raven has exhibited other abilities as well, including emotion manipulation and low-level precognitive abilities.

This seriously gives her an edge over any Titans (Yes, this include my beloved Robin. I fear he'd fold under her power as well).

First off, with Raven's 'Soul-Self' and broadcast empathy, she can take control over Superboy such as she did Beast Boy in TEEN TITANS #9 & #10. She releases her Soul-Self and embraced Superboy with it, she could force Conner to surrender completely and totally before he could move.

Then there is the fact that Raven's body is a doorway to other dimensions. She could either send Conner to another world or she could release her father's demon squad and have them take out Superboy.

Raven's Soul-Self and teleportation abilities would constantly keep her out of Superboy's reach. Even his Tacticle Telekinesis and Heat Vision would be useless against her.

Whenever the Teen Titans have ever been forced to battle against Raven (good or evil), it has taken the ENTIRE team to defeat her. When it comes to Raven no single hero can stop her. Superboy wouldn't stand a chance in heck of beating someone like Raven who could force him to surrender, teleport him to hell and teleport out of his attacks before he could lay a hand on her.

And I fear this includes Robin. :(

So... is anyone going to explain why they think Superboy could beat Raven?

I will! I will! Superboy could...um....no Raven could teleport him away. OO! OO! He could hold her in place so she couldn't move and...wait...she doesn't need to move to teleport him away. Crap! Poor Superboy, short of a lucky heat vision blast he's outta this one. <_<

There's a tied vote people. Convince me Superboy can win this one!

Unfortunantly Marx, Kon's heat vision would be useless against the Witch as well. Remember one of Raven's powers is the ability to heal others and herself. Even if Kon were to graze her with his heat vision on a lucky shot, her body would heal itself in the blink of an eye.

Um, maybe a blast that knocks her unconscious? *knows Raven would win, purely looking for the way Superboy could conceivably win*

Ah, but if Kon could even come remotely close to knock out Raven before her healing powers kicked in, her Soul-Self would be released as a defense mechanisim and we know what would happen then. Teleportation, emotional manipulation, or hell on earth.

And people wonder why the Comic Raven is so dang scarry sometimes... :P

LOL! Fine! Superboy would get his butt handed to him. Ya happy now! I blame you...even if I'm the one who chose the match up. lol Though Kon was the closest thing I could think of as a challenge for her. Oh well. :lol:

Dude, I'm sorry. I'm as big of a Superboy fan as the next man, but I think the only person who could beat Raven on their own would be someone like the Specter MAYBE Secret.

Superboy would need all the Titans to help him beat her.

I mean, just look at Raven's track record. She never made fighting her easy for her friends.

LOL I was just joking. I totally agree. If you remember I said that I thought Raven was going to win the whole tournament. Though I'm pretty sure Secret, especially Darkseid-trained Secret would be able to take her out. Now that would be a pretty awesome fight. Smoke and souls all over the place!

While I feel that there are a couple of heroes and villains in the DCU who could take out Raven on their own, I'm afraid that none of the Teen Titans are on that list (and Superboy is nowhere NEAR that list).

In case anybody was wondering who I think CAN take Raven in a one on one fight (and this list is in no particuliar order), here are the ones that immediately come to my mind:

1. Time Trapper (Of course)
2. Darkseid
3. Spectre I
4. Spectre II/Paralax
5. The Monitor and/or the Anti-Monitor
6. The Martian Manhunter
7. Dr. Fate (any incarnation)
8. Mordru
9. The Emerald Eye/Emerald Empress
10. Saturn Girl
11. Shazam (the wizard, not Captain Marvel)
12. Johnny Thunderbolt (on a good day)
13. Ganthet

Saturn Girl couldn't touch Raven, I'm afraid Jim. Same goes for the Martian Manhunter and Emerald Empress. Raven's mind is blocked to telepathy.

Secret should be on that list (probably where Saturn Girl is). Her power is connected directly to god himself. She's a doorway to heaven and hell and her powers make her very versitile.

And the Specters should be at the top of the list. They too are connected to God or whatever deity is is that controls time, space and all that stuff. Time Tripper can't touch their kind of power if it was fully unleashed. Afterall, they are connected to the being who created Time Tripper and time itself.

First off, as I said the list was in no particuliar order. I put them down as they came to me, which reminds me:

14. Universo

As for Secret, I really do not know much about her; I never liked the old Young Justice book. What exactly are her powers? I was always under the impression that she was just very stealthy and able to turn intangible, like a combo of Invisible Kid and Apparition.

The Emerald Empress's powers aren't based on telepathy, though that does help to control the Eye. The Emerald Eye is one of the most potent magical items ever known to exist. It puts the Starheart to shame and is in the same league as Helm of Nabu and the Rock of Eternity (though it is obviously not as powerful on its own as either of those).

As for Saturn Girl, Martain Manhunter and (now) Universo, I can't remember when but I am certain that I have seen Raven vulnerable to telepathic assault at one time or another; I just can't remember the specific reference. Thus, they stay on my list. J'onny boy is the most powerful telepath of 20th/21st century DC heroes, while Universo and Saturn Girl are the two most powerful telepaths ever born on Titan, which makes them the two most powerful in the 30th/31st Century (I will not allow myself to be drawn into a debate about whether Saturn Girl could beat J'onny). However, I ask that the rest of this arguement be defered for 48 hours, because the next battle of the Legionnaires v. Titans Tournament will, coincidentally, be Raven v. Saturn Girl.

Oh, and as for all the "God" stuff- my Atheism extends into my perception of the DCU. Therefore, it is and has for quite some time been my opinion that the Spectre(s) and anyone else attributing their powers to "God" is either deluded, lying, mistaken or under the influence of another suitably powerful entity that has chosen to identify itself as "God." So that arguement holds no weight with me. Of course, it doesn;t matter since I still think either Spectre can beat Raven anyway.

Dude, first off watch what you say. I don't want people getting offended and we've banned people for less. If you dont' agree, simply say you don't agree. But lets please avoid the topic of debating religion.

You don't have to accept that, but no need to knock it either.

And Raven's mind is completely immune to telepathy. When Raven went evil, Lilith AKA Omen couldn't take control of her mind no matter how hard she tried and she is an EXTREMELY powerful telepath nearly on level with Martian Manhunter.

As for Secret, she is a door way to the afterlife. She directs people's souls to heaven or hell and can control aspects of death. Her powers allow to alter her form from smoke to chemicals such as knock out gas. She has more powers than people are entirely certain about.

Interesting. I didn't realize that Secret's power levels were so... vast.

I appologize if I offended anyone by my remarks, though I do stand by them. Frankly, I have never really liked the way that DC Comics has handled the whole issue of God by just imposing a monotheistic framework on the whole thing; indeed, I myself am offended by it (though everyone tends to assume that Atheists can't be offended). Still, you're right. I'll refrain from making comments in the future that may open up a religious debate beyond the scope of this site's intentions.

I've seen Omen interact with Saturn Girl. Omen was, to be frank, in awe of Imra's power; at least, that was my interpretation. I wouldn't use an attempt by Omen as proof that it cannot be done by a suitably powerful (i.e., J'onn, Universo or Saturn Girl) or skilled (i.e., Dr. Aven) telepath.

Well, OK, maybe not Dr. Aven, but I still think the other three could do it.

Good. But keep in mind, watch what you say. Just because you don't believe in religion doesn't mean others don't. If you don't agree, just say you don't agree. Do NOT explain why, because someone might get offended. And if you offend someone, well... then we have problems again.

When Raven went evil, Omen's powers were boosted while the Titans were on Azarath (Raven's place of birth). She had Martian Manhunter power of telepathy and she still couldn't hurt Raven. Her powers returned to normal level after Raven and Trigon were defeated and killed.

Omen's powers have boosted considerbaly, over the years and like I said she is NEARLY on level with Martian Manhunter. Not quite there and she was close. But she's dead now. Sigh...

But again, telepathy has no effect on Raven.

Well, I still disagree, but it seems like a contentious issue that we can't really resolve. Perhaps I should chose some Legionnaire other than Saturn Girl to face Raven in the tournament in light of this; what do you think?

Wouldn't make much of a difference from where I stand. Raven's power makes her nearly undefeatable. It takes the entire group of Teen Titans and several more of their allies to take down Raven.

So I will never be able to see one single person from the Legion on par with her multitude of abilities.

If it were the entire Legion versus Raven, then I'd say otherwise, but if you've ever read 'THE TERROR OF TRIGON' where Raven went all kinds of evil, you'd see what I mean.

And considering it is believed and rumored by the Teen Titans/Outsider's Secret Files that since her resurrection she may have more powers to her disposal, Raven might soon be proving to be even MORE dangerous than she currently is.

So anyone else gonna vote? We got ourselves a tie so far.

I voted :D

And yeah Jim, PLEASE be carefull what you say.
I myself come from a devout Pentecostal family and am myself a christian. I don't take any offense since this is just opinions, but we HAVE had a few nasty arguments in the past and , as much as I love a good philisophical/theological debate, it shouldn't become a thorn in the YJUTTS site's side.

I have a friend whos a mormon and another whos just undecided. But we don't say things that are offensive to the other. Last thing this site needs is to become dead again.
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And yay! I broke the tie! Raven would definetle win. ~Happy dance~

Again, Rachel, I apologize for what I said. I did not see any of it as being offensive; I suppose that I am used to speaking in a college atmosphere, where pretty much anything goes. I will try to... censor... myself better from now on.

I go to college as well Jim, and that's not really an excuse. We allow alot of things on this site, but there ARE limitations.

The rules clearly state not to insult people beliefs and some of the things you said could be constructed as insulting to some who might be religious.

This is a DC Comic RPG board. And that means our opinions on about religion, abortion, and so on have NO place here.

In short, you MUST censor yourself, not just try.

Thank you.

I wasn't saying it by way of an excuse, Alan. I was offering it as an explanation. As you may have noted I have allready appologized for what I have said.

Twice.

And as for it having no place here, I agree with you, but submit that I was not trying to start a debate. I was stating my opinion of those DC characters whose backstories include elements that refer to a monotheistic deity, usually Judeo-Christian in origin. You have since informed me that that is unacceptable. I have appologized for my statement and agreed not to make another.

Until I screw up again, can you please assume that I will keep my word, give me the benefit of the doubt and stop reprimanding me for the same thing? I count now three times by you and once by Rachel, all within the same 48 hour period. I don't mind the extra one from Rachel, since she didn't get the chance to do so before, but I've learned my lesson, Alan, and won't make the same mistake twice. Please give the chance to prove that before you start doubting me.

Jim, I'm not doubting you. But I am making certain that you and everyone else who reads this completely and totally understands the severity of this.

We've had many problems in the past in relation to those sorts of hyper-sensitve topic such as sexuality, religion and so on. I've discovered that it takes multiple reminders at times to make certain everyone understand this we avoid further problems on the same subjects.

I leave for a week and it's still tied? What the fudge is going on here? VOTE PEOPLE! VOTE! ONLY YOU HAVE THE POWER...in this situation anyway...

AND RAVEN IS THE WINNAAAAAAAAAAA! I am so good at this, haven't gotten a single one wrong yet, the next part will be up shortly.