I'm looking for a laptop for when I go to college but I don't know much about computers or what I need.
I'll probably be using it for some art work, downloading, some gaming...and of course to write papers. However I don't want to spend over $1200, and preferably less than that.

I found a cheap one at best buy with:
-mobile intel pentium 4 processor 518 w/ HT technology notebook
-processor speed 2.80GHz
-612 DDR SDIMM memory
-60GB hard drive
Is this good enough for what I need?

edit: typo, I meant 512MB DDR

Hm, that would be okay, if you don't plan on ever moving away from a wall socket. Pentium 4's in laptops have got to be THE worst idea EVER in mobile computing. They suck up way to much power and run way to hot, a better processor would be the Pentium M. Pentium M's are specially designed to use little power and not generate so much heat.

Do you mean 512MB or RAM? It's really not possible to have 612... 512 would be okay for general use, however for more recent games and heavy Music/Video encoding, 1GB is preferable.

The 60GB hard drive is all up to you. How much do you plan to put on it? If you're doing Music/Video encoding or working with very large images, it might be a good idea to upgrade to at least 80GBs. Also, you want to pay attention to the drive's cache and RPM. 4200 RPM is still the most common speed in Notebook computers, however they can be pretty slow, especially during Video/Music encoding and Window's Start-up. 5400 RPM is a moderate choice, however 7200 would be the best, though 7200 RPM can get expensive in notebook hardrive.

Also, many retail stores I have noticed seem to forget about the video processor. The one you listed probably has cheap Intel Extreme II integrated graphics. For anything even CLOSE to modern gaming, it is just simply nowhere near powerful enough.

Okay, searched Newegg and came up with a few options.

First, this is over your limit, but The Toshiba A4-S211- $1,299.00 is the best one I found for the price. Its only real weakness is the 4200 RPM hard drive, which can be replaced if you decide to eventually.

Within your budget, there is really only one other choice, The HP NC8000- $999.00.

The problem with that is its low memory, An additional 512MB stick would fit in nicely, however. Also, it only has a 40GB hard drive. So you'd need to decide if you want a bigger one, such as A 60GB model or even a 80GB model.

Those two are really the only options I can see on Newegg for you. I can check other places now as well though.

Newegg is known for its cheap deals...I suggest it..

Anyway the specs sound good enough....its sounds like it will fit your needs but how much does it cost? The HT will really help you if you use photoshop (of course now that they have dual-core HT is old..but dual-cores have less powerful processors...)

Ram comes in ecrements of 128, 256, 512, and 1 Gb (there are more but you won't be going to that much ram)..

Well good luck, I suggest you also read computer magazines like PC Magazine or PC World...they regulary review notebooks and comps.

Newegg... bleh. I bought some stuff from them and I was not impressed. There is much better service through TigerDirect http://www.tigerdirect.com/

Well look, if you are really into going hard core with processing, gaming, and video editing, there is no subsitute for a desktop. Why spend hundreds more when you can get the same (if not better performance and upgradability) from a desktop?) Is a Laptop completely necessary? Do you plan on carrying it around everywhere, easy to be stolen? I think its a decision you should think long and hard about.
Me, I'd go with a desktop, but I have seen some pretty nice gateway models and (as blasphemous as it may sound) some nice Compaq stuff.

Hmm, I've ordered from Newegg twice now, and they've been great. Everyone else on all the computer forums I stalk seems to agree as well. Tigerdirect seems to be viewed down upon, however. What exactly was your problem with Newegg? I've heard that once in a while they can be slow in processing and shipping orders, however usually they are extremely fast.

Well beyond *somewhat* slow service, I had ordered the incorrect part. I only had like 14 days to send it back to them (not to mention a 15% restock fee, plus the 7.99 for shipping twice or whatever) but I had to get some sort of RMA# so I emailed them. nothing. Emailed them again. nothing. Tried a different mail host. Nothing. so I got stuck with a piece of crap useless microatx powersupply. I will never shop with newegg again. Besides, TD has everything I need and has good prices.
(on a more personal note, I think their website is horrible.)

(you dont know anyone interested who would want to buy it would you??)

I can vouch for Pentium 4 in laptop = roasty, though I've only used a few others to be able to compare it with. Either way, I'm always putting a desk fan facing mine and propping it up on stuff to keep it cooler...

Geeze, sounds like you just had bad luck. These people must agree with me, Newegg's Reseller Rating. And for reference, Tigerdirect's Reseller Rating.

I'm not saying Tigerdirect is bad, just that you ought to give Newegg another try. Most likely the cause for your mess-ups was that it was a busy time of year, you e-mailed the wrong address (hey, it can happen if you accidently get one character off...), their mail servers were down at the time, etc.

Are you talking about the old site, or the new one?

Oops, I did mean 512MB.

Thanks for the advice ^_^

From everyone I've talked to at my school, there haven't been too many problems with stolen laptops. And with my limited dorm size I think it would be more efficient to have a laptop and my campus is pretty big so instead of going all the way back to my room in between classes or what not, I could work on stuff right where I am.

mmmm you're paying for mobility remember that...somewhat more for it...luckily you're not a really really hard-core gamer (*sqiunts* are you?) because you're trading in expansion room and well features....

When you need a new computer(after this one) you'll probably need to buy a new one...I hate upgrading laptops..its diffcult. So the choices you make now will affect you on the long term.

depends what your willing to spend, and what the system is mainly for.
if your willing to go up to $1,200 then checkout Alienware

http://www.alienware.com/

they provide a host of solutions, and with the Star Wars III sale on.. many of thier systems are alot cheaper.
some extremely good small form factors ITX Desktop Systems, as well as some very powerful Laptops.

Isn't alienware kinda for extremely heavy computing and heavy games people? Sera just wants an averagish computer that can play games, get the projects/homework done and that's all...so I don't really suggest alienware....

Laptops tend to die easier too, in my experience. I've got a desktop that's easily outlasted one of ours (crispy hard drive and messed screen, poor thing) despite being years older. I suspect it will still work when this one's dead...which I hope isn't anytime soon.

One other thing...I've found laptops I've poked had slower read/write speeds for their CD/DVD drives. This thing will still be copying the first few songs of a CD while my parents' desktop is done. Anyone else know more about that?

If size is your main concern over portability, what about a regular desktop with a flatscreen motitor? That's what my parents got, and it honestly doesn't take up that much more space with all the wires taken into account.

And it's got a shiny BLUUUUE light on the case...

Of course they are slower, they're lappietops. (I don't know why but I love adding ie to the end of a word, bad habit >_<) probably because you were running it on battery, and burning something consumes lots of power and it probably didn't get enough power at one time...I think

Anyway if it was a centrino processor they have settings that sometimes (like if its on battery) the processor runs slower...which might contribute to slower burn speeds. But a slower processor saves battery.

Nope...it's slower on AC power too. Maybe it's something to do with the drive generating heat when it spins faster or...something. Dang, now I'm curious. I know I had the speed for this thing's DVD-ROM/CD burner somewhere...

And yeah, doing anything short of basic stuff on battery = Pentium 4 going "mm, power...". Though I have to say it's quite good at encoding video other than the roasty...

yes, Alienware are more for Business/Games.. but in the same sense, if she gets a laptop/mini-desktop from them in the sale she'll get more for her money.

Especially given Alienware machines are built for speed.
It's nice knowing that on a limited battery capacity your booted up in 6sec rather than almost minute of those unoptimised Dell variations.

It is also good for her, because she said she plays games. Perhaps not state of the art, but if she gets a Laptop with a Geforce 6 Go, that will effectively make it futureproof for her.

You can't simply go out and upgrade laptops like you can desktops, well with the new NVIDIA MXM and Intel Pentium 4-M you can but still my point is that usually once you've bought a laptop, your stuck with it.

Getting a machine that is designed to play games will allow you to make sure that it'll still be able to play the lastest-n-greatest for atleast 2years.

:) by Christmas they'll have out thier Dual Core P4-M and Athlon64-M X2 ... which should really crash current top-end prices.

Hmmm, perhaps a desktop would be better...gah, I hate making decisions that involve lots of my money!

I'm not a hardcore gamer but if its a better bargain, I'll check it out...how long is the sale going on for?
Edit: I just looked and it says it ends Tuesday! Gah, that's today >.<

I personally enjoy making decisions about computers, but perhaps that is only because I can't actually buy any of it currently, and enjoy torturing myself by saying all the time "Maybe I should get this really cheap computer so I can be content as I save up for a better one, or maybe I should skip the cheap one and get the better one sooner, but then I'd have to live on this crappy shared computer for longer so maybe I should get this even cheaper one, but then again..." I have about 10 wish lists sitting around on Newegg of possible computers I can buy when I get money. I can just imagine how joyous it will be when I can finally afford something...

So, anyways, now you're stuck on rather to get a desktop or a laptop, hmm? Perhaps it may help if you answer these eleven simple questions listed below (As in, post them here so I can run them through the Zelos O' Matic and give you a list of computers that suit your needs)

1) List all the current uses you can think of for a computer.
2) List any future uses you may have for it.
3) If gaming is in either of the above, what games? What future games?
4) How often do you think you would take advantage of mobility? And for how long at a time?
5) How much space do you believe you will have available in your room?
6) How much stuff do you plan on carrying around campus?
7) In the future, would you rather make incrimental upgrades as needed, or wait a long time and replace the whole computer?
8) What's your personal reason for wanting a laptop? A desktop?
9) What is the max, realistic, price point for this computer?
10) When do you want to buy it? Do you want it now, or do you not mind waiting?
11) Would you feel comfortable working inside the computer to add new hardware?

EDIT: Three more questions added...

Hmm interesting the Zelos O' Matic might just work.

Anyway now that Raven mentioned the dual-core I think dual-core might be good for you, dual-core is the king of multitasking, basicaly because it can ACTUALY run 2 threads. For those who don't know while you computer seems to be doing a bunch of stuff at one time the processor (single core, with only 1 processor, this applies to even hyper threading which is an emulation really ) is processing just one thread at a time, an application might use up like 1/5 of a second of processing time but its processing only 1 thread.

Now in dual-core it processes 2 threads at the same time, you will see CONSIDERABLE increases in apps like Photoshop and video encoding. You're going to be using your laptop for business right? That's multotasking. You're going to be playing game right? While video games so far aren't taking advantage of it the speed which is around 1.5 GHZ so far is somewhat good enough for mid-level games. You can still play Half Life 2. (My world revolves around Half Life 2 and Half Life 1 and the mods, [think of tune]its a small world after all.....)

That is correct, benchmarks have proven dual core processors to have an advantage over single core in multitasking and encoding purposes, however Intel's offerings fall short elsewhere. AMD's are looking promising, however.

The main problems in dual core, however, is that they aren't actually widely available yet (I believe Dell has a business computer with a Pentium D, but that's all I've seen) and that once they do come to market they will be so expensive for the first few months.

That made me think of two more questions for the Zelos O' Matic :D

EDIT: Make that three more :D

AMD Athlon64 2X come out next month, and the Pentium Dual-Core aren't exactly widely available yet.

So as I said, around Christmas will be when you'll start to see them more widely appearing. With the AMD you have two processing enhancing abilities in a single processor.. the ability to jump when 64-bit computing properly takes off which unfortunately until Intel make a 64-bit chip isn't likely to happen. The new dual-core processing which offers some truely awesome speed.

I don't like the price of them, but on the plus side it'll crash standard processor prices. I do like the idea of being able to pickup a 4800+ by the end of the year for £150 rather than it's current £340 heh

It's best weighing up your options. I mean to be honest if your not likely to play games much (if at all) then you can get the Mini-Mac very cheap.
They're much better for normal desktop things, like Internet, Email, Office, Music, Photoshop, etc..

They're also cutely small. Like the size of 3 DVD cases on-top of each other. So yeah small enough to put just about anywhere, and I think it'll plug into a TV.

With it being a Mac, if your broken into people tend to leave it given they're not worth much on resale because they're pretty incompatible on the whole. They're more of a work computer than a gaming one.

Still there's the Blizzard games (Diablo/Warcraft/Starcraft) and id-based games (Quake3/Doom3/etc..) for it. Though you might look into Cedega for Linux/Unix (as MacOSX is Unix based) and that'll allow you to play most DirectX games without problems.

I've had Half-Life 2 working on my G5 before without many problems.

Problem with the Mini is that while the base unit itself may be cheap, that doesn't include a keyboard, mouse, or moniter. The monitor alone can easily jack up the price by at least $100 for anything decent.

Intel has made 64 bit processors already, the Pentium 4 600 series are all 64 bit. Example. Notice how it has EM64T in the name, that's Intel's name for 64 bit instructions.

EMT64 though is just a 64-bit Unit, it still has a 32-bit Core.
Unlike the IA64 (Intels official 64-bit used in Itaniums which believe me explains why they don't have a full 64-bit CPU on the market), or the x64 (x86-64) from AMD.

They're 64-bit built with 32-bit Compatibility.

Think of this though, (and it happened to me) 64-bit and hyperthreading stuff is the newest and most expensive technology in processors of today. Think of how the price will change in a year or two.

Now unless you are interested in paying to have the technology first, its a flagrant waste of money to buy state of the art. Not to mention support for it is either hard to come by, expensive, or non-existant.

3 years ago, I bought my system, a 2.5Ghz Lexington 3. At the time, the fastest processor that was comercially avaliable was around 2.8Ghz. So consider this, technology has not come very far considering, and is becoming far cheaper. Software of today (for the most part) does not even come close to 1.5Ghz capability. Of course theres some games that require an INSANE system to play, but most people never touch stuff like that.

The moral, wait for stuff to get cheaper or waste your cash!

@ SP: What do you expect to run exactly? Photoshop? MS Office? Firefox (:D) You really dont need something crazy. Heck, buy used/refurbed and save the money for other stuff.

Okay, so I thought long and hard about this during physics class today and came to the conclusion that with the major I'm going into, I'm probably not even going to have much time to use my computer except for papers and online research. As much as I'd like to think I'll be spending my time playing around on my computer, the harsh reality is, I won't. Maybe I'll have time to occassionaly do something, but nothing that's worth spending hundreds of extra dollars on.

With this in mind, I think I'll probably settle for a cheap to mediocre laptop. Then, either when I have more time on my hands or graduate, I'll use the money I saved and get a nicer computer.

Edit: It's probably better this way, because then I won't have the temptation to go play when I should be writting a paper, especially since I get distracted really, really easily :P However, I still need to have...okay,want to have, something that can download and burn at a decent rate and have multiple windows open. But I think most laptops can probably handle that?

My old desktop can handle that...well, other than the burning, but that's because it has no drive for it.

Personally, I've found the most irritating thing to not have enough of is RAM, but I'd say 512MB is plenty for that. This computer has 256 and I only really notice working with large images and such.

One more thing to consider then, are you really SURE you want a laptop? You can get much more bang for the buck with a desktop. While I could find a laptop that fits you for $700-1000, I could probably find a desktop for even less.

As much as I hate them, Dell makes the best computers for the low price end, even beating out DIY computers sometimes (depends on what sales they have going on at the time). If you want a cheap dekstop, I suggest checking out a Dell. *Can not believe he just recommended a Dell*

FOR ANYTHING ELSE OTHER THEN THE $500 AND LOWER PRICE POINT, DELL SUCKS!

There, conscience cleared. I am happy again.

My neighbors have a dell and it was the worst thing they ever bought. I don't know why they didn't go with gateway, I mean, their first computer was a Gateway2000.. never had a problem. I have 3 computers (1 I killed) that are all either gateway2000 or gateway. I think the hardware gtwy uses is much higher quality than dell's stuff. Thats just me on the battle of the OEMs..

I can vouch for Gateway too...three out of four computers my family has bought were from them.

The one that wasn't is the one that's now dead...though to be fair, it was a laptop.

The thing with Dell though is they so frequently have sales and give away free LCD monitors with their cheap computers :D Then again, I have seen some other manufacturers do so as well.

Bottom line, if you want a sub $500 desktop, go with Dell/Gateway/HP/Compaq/etc. If you want a $500-$800 desktop, weigh your options and skill and go with either a good brand or pre-built or build it yourself, above $800 for a desktop you should probably build it yourself. For a laptop, there's no price ranges as such, so just look for what best suits you, and make sure it's a good brand. For notebooks you can also get a barebone kit which is somewhat like building a desktop yourself, but not quite. Sometimes you can save money by doing so, but other times not.

*Laughs at Zelos pretending to know a lot about building computers*

Desktop computers change so often that it's really hard to know much about them unless you keep in contact with the company, I'd personally suggest buying the parts for the desktop yourself, and consulting someone who actually gets to work with the parts (*Points to Zelos' empty pockets*), as to what to get, etc, etc.

I've done the number crunching before, and I can bring in things like TiVo for $100 cheaper than the unit w/ a lifetime subscription, and have built systems with the same or better warranties and parts as dell, etc for less than the companies charge you.

IF you buy any branded computer, don't go to best buy, and make sure to buy an eMachines computer. They're the best pre-built computers I've ever seen, and definately surpass Dell, Gateway, HP, Compaq, and several others.

Bottom line: Build yourself. If you can't for cheaper, buy eMachines. Don't touch any other company with a 948,405,258,204,382,503km-long stick. OR consider asking Duero to price you out. :)

EDIT: Also, a quick FYI. AMD generally offers much better processors for the prices. My processor I'm using right now, an AMD Athlon 64 3500+, currently sells for $267 on Newegg (I have other sources where I got for more like $200 brand new and sealed). Keep in mind that that's a 64 bit processor with 64 bit support, etc. An intel one, 64 bit, 3.4Ghz (Usually the standard comparison is, for example, an AMD 3500+ unoverclocked is about equal to a 3.5Ghz proc. Can get it up to equal about a 4-4.2Ghz proc with overclocking). AN INTEL ONE WITH THE SAME FEATURES INCLUDING 64 BIT IS $413!!! That's quite a markup in my opinion. 1.5x the price for a lesser performing processor in gaming.

So, if you want to be able to play some games, use future programs and versions of windows, grab a nice AMD 64 Processor. Despite what many people say, they surpass intel processors by a lot and I'm quite happy playing far cry at 1280x1024, maxed settings.

*Laughs at Duero for not realizing that for the past months I've been heavily reaserching computers, and am still doing so every day now.*

And I'll admit, even in these four or so months I still don't know a fraction of what I can know about computers. There's just so much to them. Right now though I'm focusing on the initial construction aspect of them, keeping in touch with new CPUs, GPUs, etc.

Duero, you're always saying to me and Allie how your dad can get parts for cheaper, so don't forget that everybody else CAN'T get them for as "cheap" as you can.

I've done number crunching to, if a manufacturer has a good enough sale going on, sometimes their price matches or is even cheaper then a DIY.

Besides, I don't exactly think Sara's the kind of person (nothing personal) who would build her own computer.

And no, I also don't think she's the person who would pay you to build it.

I'd strongly recommend against Dell, and Compaq.
They're cheap relatively speaking, but the problem is that thier warrenties and contracts are very very bad.

Generally now I purchase systems I want to use for Games or Graphics from Alienware (have done for almost 5years now before they were popular), but as has been said about you can't beat the price on buying the parts yourself.

Well unless it's a laptop heh

I do build my programming / internet / general use machines myself still, but the problem with doing so is that keeping up with the technology is nearly a full-time job now. It's not like a decade ago when you could expect (and almost predict) what the next processor and video card specs were going to be.

With each company moving in different directions for the same goal, and using weird terminology for essencially identical things (HyperMemory / TurboCache).. or even worse identical abbreiviations for totally different technology (Hyper-Threading / Hyper-Transport).

Well it's all a little confusing to say the least.
Generally speaking though, unless you have someone who CAN purchase hardware oem, you very rarely save much over what professional companies like Dell, Gateway, Aries, etc. can offer.

Simply because while you purchase an AMD Athlon64 3200+ processor Retail for £90, I can purchase through my company an OEM processor for only £50.

Often this is more actually because prices tend to be in USD, which equate to around £0.50 per $1.00 :)

So on the whole I the industry can pay less and provide you with systems that are only a fraction more than you'd pay for the individual parts.

There is also the fact that if anything goes wrong you can phone up.. say it's broken and they have to replace it (most have 1year warrenties). With your own builds you have to do all of the error checking work yourself and then the trouble of taking back the invidiual parts is a pain, etc.

Mentioned above is getting more power through over-clocking a processor. While this is now a fairly common practise, there are risks involved particularly with the high-end processors.

People who over-clock thier hardware effective do it because they know what they're doing, often have greater cooling solutions to cope with the additional heat, as well as know which processors will be able to clock how far. Sometimes you even have to re-link switches on the top of the processor in order for it to access differently to achieve better speeds.

Another problem with self-creating systems, particularly for speed reasons is the fact that you can easily bottleneck any performance enhancements without incorrect hardware, or not providing powerful enough supplimental hardware.

There is very little point in a top-end AMD Athlon64 3500+ Processor, if you provide it with 128MB PC2100 266MHz RAM... you'll just bottleneck the entire system and the processor won't really be able to achieve even 3/4 of it's full potencial.

As for Intel vs AMD argument. While sure AMD can perform better in some circumstances, Intel can do the same in others.

An AMD AthlonXP 2600+ (1.8GHz) is capable of achieving similar processing speeds to a Pentium4 2.52GHz, however (and here's where it gets complicated) if a program utilises SSE2 enhancements which AMD Processors don't have.. the Pentium 4 Processor is easily capable of out-performing the AMD.

Another point is HT (Hyper-Threading) Technology. As this allows Intel Processors to run more data using more of it's processing abilities.
In effect you can boost the output speed by almost 33% which again for programs that use Multi-Threading over Single-Threading can mean that Intel Processors can be the better choice.

With Intel, if an application is programmed specifically to take advantage of it's enhancements... then it'll perform just as well admirably as AMD's high-end solutions.

AMD Processors however, don't require any special programming, So all of thier enhancements will work with absolutely any program.

Still unless you plan to do intensive gaming (like Half-Life 2 or Age of Empires III) or Graphics intensive applications like Photoshop or Maya. Then really the above will probably be all greek and completely pointless to know. :)

At the moment, I am pretty sure that I'll be getting a laptop. My sister just came home from school so I asked her if she thought it was better having a laptop on campus. She said yes and that I should get a laptop. When it was nice out alot of people went outside to do their work and they took their laptops to classes.

However, I know she has had alot of problems with her laptop and now that she's home she's been using my computer, not her laptop. But that could also be due to the fact that she doesn't take care of her laptop and knows even less about computers than I do.

Nope, *SERA's* not the type of of person to build a computer. I don't really have the time to do that sort of thing and knowing me, I would probably screw something up. Maybe if I was more knowledgable in computers and had more time I would, but that's not the case right now...

I probably won't be playing any intensive gaming but I do use photoshop. However, like I said before, depending on my time, I may not be using it as much.

Warrenties? Who needs them. When my computer breaks down I poke at it, then if its still broken reformat and reinstall the OS. Nice an' easy.

So far as of date, I had to reformat my computer 2 times due to it breaking down. Even now I have a folder on my drive with the ol' drive name, if I open it its an exact emulation of my old drive, complete with the program files folder, though without the windows folder.

hmm, cheap but good? check out Apple's iBook series of laptops. If you can get past the "wtf, apple?!" reaction, you'll realize they're good laptops for a fair price.

though its not a gaming computer. you wont get any gaming laptop for 1200 or less.

What are you using Photoshop for? I can do basic art/photo editing stuff just fine on this thing in GIMP and PSP...I don't have Photoshop, though. I think it's more working with huge images that'll eat RAM...

*munch* mm...yum..RAM...

I think Apple computers are overpriced, if I got an apple computer I would do it only for the iLife suite...besides I hate the no right clicky thingy..do you know how much time you save by having a right clicky! You'll come to apperciate it.

Photoshop is mostly a name brand, but it is top-of-the-line I think CS2 & CS1 should be one release, not much of a major update really, I think Photoshop 7 was a really major release. I have CS2 not much really..some purty graphics here and there...I liked it when they organized the the windows in the windows menu into little catagories....

lmao.. some of us don't like the hassle of NEEDING to reformat and reinstall Windows.
god knows what it's like for those poor people who have the Home/Professional versions of XP, putting up with reactivation by phone!

Quick.. how many buttons for modern Macintosh have? :P
Mac's are generally over-priced for what they provide because Apple have specialised hardware. About a decade ago when Amiga was still going they were actually reasonable compared to Amiga and IBM-Compatible.

That said until MacOSX, every Mac owner knew of iCandy. For those who've never used a Mac, when it crashes it comes up telling you vocally an error has happened and it's a womans voice heh. You just be sitting there trying to render something out in Shake praying not to hear her voice.. but you knew it was comming.

Believe me anyone ever complains about the Stability of Windows, give them an iMac for a day :P

Don't really use Photoshop professionally do we?
Photoshop 8 (CS) and 9 (CS2) add some really important features conserning layers, channels, tablets, vectored graphics.

While the difference between 6 & 7 is more noticeable, when your using Photoshop daily believe me you quickly notice how they're improving the interface and quality of the functionality.

It's like Maya 4, 5, 6.. on the surface, there is no difference. When you start using the tools though, stuff like PolySplit has been just hugely improved each version, which changes the overal useability of the function.

Same goes for Photoshops Airbrush function, it is getting much better each release. Closer and closer to Corel Painter, with it's realistic brushes. (just a shame that program is horribly unstable)

Well I got my Windows XP before they ever had activation, I still have a copy of Windows XP Pro that doesn't need activation and just needs a serial number.

Well ok I admit CS1 and CS2 did make some improvements (like the healing brushie!)

Ok well yes you're paying for security and safe of mind along with purty graphics...

You never did counter the right button thingy....