So in FriendlyFire's "Magical Bullet" thread, I made up a plan for world domination; and you countered that Russia would stop me in my tracks.

So we had a somewhat heated debate; where my plan for world domination ceded into simply the United States of America versus Russia. Your pride as a Russian apparently wouldn't let you back down, and seeing as how our MSN squabble ended somewhat anti-climatically, I created this thread for the purpose of our debate.

Your argument consisted of maintaining that Russia was the world's somewhat military superpower, while mine consisted of basically the same. But lets get more in-depth; shall we?

Continuing our past argument, on a somewhat official scale. Lets continue the debate shall we?

Your move Guy. Explain to me how Russia trumps the United States.

Sentenal smells blood in the water, so I'm looking forward to this. I want to know why Russia>>>U.S!

The U.S. buys arms and missiles from Russia. Since Russia made those missiles, they know how to counter them should they be fired upon us. Not only that, but have you seen our tanks?

The United States does not in fact buy arms from Russia since SALT II was put into effect.

Even if we did, knowledge of how to dismantle something won't help you when its approaching at terminal velocity of an ICBM.

Instead, its vice versa. Russia purchased the MIRV build from us; the exact year I'm not sure of. But the main point is that they have still been unable to create a fully functional perfect MIRV. The United States however, has fully mastered the creation of the MIRV, allowing the enablement of the Peacekeeper.

Also; tanks? What do you think the Panzer Faust was created for? Not only that, anti-tank warfare has gotten so advanced lately, its not even funny. Russian tanks might be strong, but a couple of land mines exploding simuntaneously under a tank is strong enough to destroy it. And if that doesn't work. non-lethal implements will be incorporated, causing the tank to simply flip, while it is then demolished by a napalm from a Faust.

Now besides what you brought up; lets talk wartime allies. The United States has NATO, who still has agents in countries right along your border. We've also enlisted the aid of South Korea, Germany, Japan, France, Britain and several other world leaders in many industries. Russia has oh what; Cuba?

Not to mention the recent talks between South and North Korean presidents promises wartime affairs between the United States and North Korea to look up through diplomatic United States and South Korean ambassadors.

Now lets talk politics. Russia is one of the only countries today that retains a representative government with Communist ties. This draws you sympathy from China and Cuba, which isn't much to talk about. Over half the world is now some form of democratic/representative government; which makes them easy to negotiate wartime allies. The "Red Scare" is far past over.

Now; natural resources. Russia has one thing that I'll give you: coal; and lots of it. Russia's oil stock is far above average, allowing for a lot of industrialization to occur. But other than it; its got nothing. It imports nearly all of its agricultural products, and depends on bordering nations for food; and that supply will be cut short as soon as we go to war; due to NATO. About 99.9% of Russia lies above the 47th Parallel. Everything above this border is a pretty much a frozen, barren wasteland, give or a take a few countries. From that point on, agriculturially you become limited as during the wintertime, conditions get massivley below zero.

North America is still now considered the most abundant area for natural resources. Yes; it was pure dumb luck that we stumbled upon it and gained its countless rich acres of farmland, marshs, forests, oil springs, coal mines, etc. for ourselves; but in the end, hell, its still ours.

Also: military strength. Russia's got some strength, that I'll give you too, but the United States is far superior to anything you've got. We have the NAVY Seals, the Marine Corps, and one of the most expansive armies in the world. Not to mention dozens of special corps such as Delta Force, Special Forces, Green Berets. Plus; we have Blackwater, the single most powerful military contracting group in the world, composed of former United States Special Corps officers. In layman's terms; their the world's greatest assassins.

So that's my argument up to now. Lets hear a counter, Guy.

So, I wonder why not China.
:hmm:

Cuba? Where the hell did you get Cuba from? We haven't been affiliated with Cuba since World War I. >.> We have Ukraine, Israel, Belarus, pretty much half of Europe.

Oil, yes, we have it. The only reason Bush hasn't sent troops over is because they'll freeze their nuts off. Not only that, but Bush knows that if he decides to attack Russia (again for America), then we'll attack back with big, long, powerful missiles that puts America's to shame.

A few land mines is nothing to worry about when you have an army of 100 supertanks. Now, honestly, didn't think that one through did ya?

When we say military strength, why do we start lying? Have you seen Russia? We're covered in snow and ice, we have no need for a Navy. We have a Shipguard, but that's only when we're exporting. Our Airforce may not be the best, but we can sink your ships and blow your planes out of the sky with our guns... <3

I guess the Cuban Missile Crisis didn't exist.

:ownd:

Someone needs a history lesson. Russia was affiliated with Cuba during the COLD WAR, seeing as they gave them freaking missiles, after World War 2. Which is obviously after World War One.

The US does not buy missiles from Russia. wtf. And even if we did, that wouldn't change anything. Once a missile is fired, you think it is going to care about who made it? Here is how you counter a missile: You hope to god you can intercept it, and shoot it down.

In regards to tanks, do you know nothing of the American Military? The M1 Abrams one of the most advanced tanks in the world. Its been around since the 80s, and is constantly getting upgraded, and is still the main battle tank of the US. The thing is well armed, has heavy armor, and very mobile. The T-90 is Russia's current main tank, is it not? How is it so much better, if any, so that it would be able to shut out an Abrams? Btw, this is also made in the US.

Not to mention , the usefulness of tanks in modern combat has been declining for years. Air power is much more effective. Helicopters for example, are excellent anti-tank weapons. Jets and bombers as well. Take for example the Gulf War and the Iraq War. Saddam made use of Soviet tanks and such, and they were completely and utterly defeated. Sure, they were older.

Btw, Riku, wars are not fought by Special Forces. Sure, they do stuff. But wars are fought by your regular soldiers. A combination of strong ground forces, and the world's best air power, would surely defeat Russia in any theoretical non-nuclear war.

Politically, NATO would side with the US against Russia. So that is a good chunk of Europe on the US's side. So who would come to Russia's aid? China? Fat chance, I would consider those two as rivals right now, with each trying to be the 'other superpower', across from the US.

Economically, Russia is also in bad shape. The US economy beats the hell out of it. We could out-produce them anyday.

Mm. I get your point Sent, but I was just dictating military strength in general. Because y'know, Russia's Military Space Forces and Strategic Rocket Forces really put the hurt on Delta Force.

Yup.

Shock and Awe > Commandos.

QFT.

Yes, our economy is bad. Yes, we sent 5 dogs into space knowing they would die. Yes, we're the most surprisingly drunk country ever. Keep in mind, we own nukes :3 Shiiiiinnnnyyyy and very destructive nukes.

PROTIP: The USA owns more nukes than Russia does. The US' nukes are just as, if not shinier and more destructive than Russia's nukes and certainly higher in quantity.

Joo made a mistake :/
While you have more, ours are bigger, shinier, and more destructive.

I like shiny things...

Anyways, time to get serious. Why are we arguing about who has the better weapons? Its like saying "Let's debate on who will win the next World War..."

IMO. S-T-U-P-E-D.

If you have bad economy, how is it that you can have better weaponry than us? It's pretty factual that we have the stronger nukes. >_>

Dude, don't you know where all of our money went? Yeah...

Your Economy sucked even before that.

Blame Atilla the goddamn Hun.... But all of our money goes to building the strongest nukes we can possibly make. So, yeah.

What the hell does Attila have anything to do with this? He was from China.

During the Cold War, your economy went down the drain due to the Nuclear Arms Race. From then, your economy still sucked. I'd be surprised if the US didn't upgrade our nukes during that time to now.

You're saying Russia spends a lot of money on defense?

Russia is second to none other than the United States on the topic of defensive spending.

Yes, Russia has stockpiled more nuclear missiles then us in accordance to SALT II; but we have the MIRVs, which store 10 nuclear warheads in one missile. A small loophole that we Americans exploited magnificently.

And Guy, argue seriously about this. Don't give me your shiny and crap. I made this to seriously discuss this topic because our last argument left me slightly angry.

Your Russian pride needs some toning down boy.

Dear God, SPZ, you're joking right? I thought you'd know that Atilla the Hun invaded and took over Russia, and ultimately ruined our economy forever with the naughty stuff he did :/ Lordy, lordy....

....You are stupid. That was during the fucking Rome Empire. You DO know that stupid posts lead to barring of Access?

Plus you just contradicted yourself. If that happened, and Russia NEVER had a good economy, then they wouldn't have any money to spend on nukes in the first place.

xDDD!!! How can you call me stupid when you don't know basic history such as this? It was Atilla the Hun that destroyed the once-prosperous country. It's been centuries since he's done this damage, and we still are only barely recovering.

Please note that we have allies, but every time we get our grubby hands on money we keep going "SPEND IT ON SHINY WEAPONS OF ULTIMATE DESTRUCTION!"

...Attila did not have a lasting effect on Russia. Stalin pretty much increased Russian Economy during WW2 and the beginning of the Cold War. You are NOT barely recovering.

Atilla kept a hold on Russia for about 20-25 years before his reign ended and Russia was released. He had destroyed Russia's economy, expanded their resources, and left the people in a state of major depression.

You sir; are a moron.

Atilla the Hun controlled Russia during the age of the ROMAN EMPIRE WHICH WAS LONG BEFORE RUSSIA DISCOVERED THAT THEY HAD ANY SIGNIFICANT RESOURCES OF ANY KIND; WAS ANY WORLD POWER; AND HE LEFT NO LASTING EFFECTS ON RUSSIA AT ALL.

Stop acting like you know everything. You don't. You're a total know-it-all smartass who gets beaten down a regular basis because you try to bullshit stuff and it eventually gets disproven.

Holy fucking shit.

PZ needs to take a basic history class? Then what the fuck do you need? To take a special education class?

This is why I don't like arguing with people who don't know history :/ Hell, this is why I don't like arguing with people who don't know.

This is why I don't like arguing with sore losers who act like they know history.

Or those who modify history to glorify their country.

See, this is why almost nodoy likes you. You post fiction as fact, you ruthlessly defend your claims with flawed, no, or hideously made up proof, and when backed up against a wall with correct information, you pass it off as people "hating" you and use other idiotic bullshit.

You don't like arguing with people you don't know? What about the guy that played the russian dude that you lambasted in this post?

Oh, and if you edit it, scroll down and look at my post that I quoted so you don't edit it in your favor.

I never said I don't like arguing with people I don't know.. >.>

o rly?

LURN2REED!

It says I don't like arguing with people who DON'T KNOW.

Yes, you did.

^
This

Either way, more people agree with PR than you. I mean, come on, most of the people who agree with PR have either passed college, are in college, or are higher than the 10th grade.

Hey, how bout some history here? You obviously need. By the time Attila took over the Hunic empire, Russia had already been subjugated. Did he brutalize them? No. Did he ruin their economy? Why in God's name would he ruin his own land's economy?

What did Attila do while he was in power? Mostly fight against the Eastern Roman Empire, and later, the Western Empire. He had truces from time to time. What Attila did in France and Italy was much worse than what he did in Russia.

Their economy wasn't anything terrible under people like Peter the Great. They were strong enough to beat Napoleon. Before the start of WW1, they were one of the strongest nations in the world, although their economy wasn't great at the time (resulted in the Communist Rebellion). Early on in the Soviet Union, at least, they had a decent economy. It was communism that ruined them, and now, a lack of communism that is ruining them.

In terms of nukes; Seriously, I don't care how many nukes Russia has. The US has more than enough of them to destroy the planet. Once you get to a certain point of "I can destroy the planet with a button", you really don't need anymore.

If you don't know what the hell you are talking about, don't talk. Seriously.

Hahahaha.. HAHAHAHAHA... Russians didn't personally beat Napoleon, it was the cold. He left his troops hungry and hurt in the middle of Russia, and freezing as well. He scrammed back to France where he was soon exiled from.

Atilla wasn't a big fan of Russia. He took it over and transfered its economy and overall power to other nations.

Russia was already conquered by the time Attila took control of the Huns!!! Do you not understand that? Hell, he barely had any of Russia under his rule. Why don't you do some reading on the subject before you talk? Attila didn't take it over. And he certainly didn't transfer any of their economy anywhere else. How the hell can you transfer an economy, anyway? Unless the economy is sorta like those tangible cans of whoop ass you said you could make.

Yes, General Winter did its part to drive Napoleon back when he invaded Russia. It wasn't all the weather, though. It was Russian tactics as well. Hit and run attacks, and scorched earth tactics. Napoleon, looks like you captured Moscow there. Oh wait, nm, the Russians burned it down first, now you get to starve this winter! But guess what? After Napoleon abandoned his troops in Russia, guess what the Russians did? They counter attacked! Napoleon didn't just abandon his invasion, and then decide to exile himself. He was forced to.

And you left many of my points un-addressed, so I guess you concede defeat about them.