Communism, such a horrible form of goverment.

Communism is the equality at its worst. Everyone is equal. And that means everyone is equally poor. This is equality of outcome. It doesn't matter how hard you worked, what you have done, or anything like that. No matter what you do, you get the same piece of crap as the next guy. When full equality is mandated, it is as if the goverment just took a dump on freedom.

Thats right. Freedom is given up under a communist government. What is the ultimate way to control people? You control their wallet, you control everything. Without the means of production, or private property to bargan with, the government can do anything, and you would be powerless to stop them. What are you gonna do? Rise up against the people who give you food? Who give you shelter? Rising up is about the only thing you can do. Yeah, what a wonderful form of government.

Or those are my views on it, at least. How many of you think communism is a good form of government (this means you, PZ)? Or even a good idea, that just won't work? Or how many of you agree with me, that communism is balls?

I think that communism is a good idea that just won't work. I keep asking myself, "If communism was the form of government everywhere, how would the world change?" Every time I do, I dream of some hellhole.

But still, why does PZ like communism?

I don't like communism. That's all I'll say.

If communism followed everything that it said it does to the T, it could work. However having a perfect form of communism is next to impossible so it's not something to even bother thinking about.

Communism looks great on paper, and its a form of Government thats known to work very well for small community's. It just isn't a proper form of government for large scale society's, the exceptions would be China and Russia. Though they had to integrate democratic policies a while ago to keep their economies from collapsing in on themselves.

Anyone read 'The Giver' by Lois Lowry? I think that world was a communist community.

Right. Well, I never really learned about communism, so I think my views are only from what I learned in personal reading.

You could say it has similarities to communism, but the government in the Giver was far more controlling so it would be closer to Totalitarianism. Communism was originally developed as a way for all people in a society to be equal and happy, it just never works out because in reality nobody actually wants to be equal. People want better jobs so they can make more money than everyone else.

Greed can be a powerful ally, but yes. No one wants to be equal.

Bill Gates and Oprah do... I want to be equal to everyone else, too.>_>

But enough about that. I guess you could say The Giver was more of a totalitarianist government. *Wants to see the movie*

It may work on paper, but I still wouldn't even want to live in a working communist society. Communism basically encourages laziness, kills innovation, and the drive to work. If you don't get compensated for working hard, why do it? I think it is only right to reward those who work harder, or invent something new to help people out. Not so in a communist government.

Exactly why Communism only works in small communities where people would have to do certain jobs out of necessity. A large scale society causes a degrade in responsibility, people won't pursue to be things like doctors or scientist because the mentality is that "someone else will do it." The fewer people there are the better chance of communism working because of the "need" for certain professions.

Isn't the communism you describe in the first post not even the real communistic view?

<.<

If I remember, pure communism is a society where there are no leaders and the workers work for each other in a sort of team effort.

It's a mutual relationship between everyone of the single working class.

You think it is even possible to control a large group of people without some government controlling everything?

That would be called anarchy, a society that has no governing group of individuals/ or individual.

I'm not say it's possible or not; it's just that you're using the wrong idea for communism.

I'm just telling you that pure communism, the way it should be, is a purely mutual relationship that exists by the people acting together as one to work for and with each other.

And yes, it does work, in a utopian society.

But we aren't perfect so Communism goes down the drain.

Eh, that's all I recall of it though.

Might be wrong, but as I remember, Communism is basically a utopian society where everyone works for each other. As for leaders, I remember that, eventually, Communism is supposed to be brought up because the working class was tired of their corrupt leaders.

Or something like that.

Utopia = not possible. Anarchy is the closest you can get.

While we're on the subject, why is there a government in the first place? If a governing people laid out rules, half the people wouldn't follow them. If there were no rules, however, there would be no right or wrong. This is a classic 'Which weighs more' question, where there is no real answer.

Back to communism.

I think Elec is right. Communism started with an overtrhowing of some country's leader. Since no one wanted another overtrowing which in turn would start another revolution, the people decided in a country where everyone had a share of everything, and that everyone owned everyone else's things.

The whole idea of a government I suspect would go back to ancient man when people still lived in tribes with a singular alpha male or leader. The idea of a leader or leaders naturally would have evolved as those small tribes grew into towns and cities.

And the idea of communism comes from the development of Marxism which was invented by Karl Max and Friedrich Engels. Their goal was to basically create a system the eliminated class struggle, to bad that such a good sounding idea really has no chance of working in the real world.

Ugh, I feel like I'm back in High School :psyduck:

*cracks knuckles* What's the problem with that?

Well, yeah. I got nothing anymore. But I will ask: Is there any communist government that 'worked' for more than a decade?

Soviet Russia lasted pretty well for a long time. Though like I said earlier they eventually had to adopt some democratic policies in order to keep themselves from collapsing. In communism the government decides what goods factories produce, the problem is that if you don't have free trade and business your going to end up with a lack of resources.

If I remember correctly Russia had most of their factories and businesses making bronze weaponry like ammo and such (or something in the area of bronze, I don't remember). Eventually though the goods they were producing became obsolete and there was no longer a use for them, they were basically stuck with huge warehouses full of this stuff that they couldn't sell or make use of anymore so eventually it all just rusted away.

Thats why a diverse economy and free trade is very important.

The philosophy of Communism would seem to work, pbut when put to action, it just kinda collapses.

True... Communism (I think) has the most loopholes in it than any other form of government.

Naw, it's just that Communism was a form of government for a perfect world.

The only mistake in Communism is that it doesn't take into considerationg the fact that we are human.

I think it is physically impossible for us to attain "equality" among all inhabitants. Damn, it would make time all so boring. There would always be 1 brand of anything. It's so... blah.

But as my prof put it, there's no real communism. it is impossible to attain. There are some countries who practice communism, but they end up poor.

No, they do, its that they dont like that we are human. They want robots that do what they are told. They want an army, not a civilization.
Great game, by the way.

No they don't.
Communism believes that the people will work together for each other. Communism believes that the people will put aside their selfishness and work for each to benefit the whole.

It's total equality.

Communism doesn't want an army because in an army you have ranks. In communism there is only one type of person, the worker.

Communism wants the perfect human being.

Thats what I mean. Not ranks, but army like behaviour. They dont fight the people on their side, they help eachother with what they are doing.

The only problem is that with a perfect human being, progress for the sake of progress wouldnt be made, we wouldnt be where we are, we wouldnt have wanted more. We'd be in the garden of eden, smiling and laughing like idiots, doing nothing.

Progress for the sake of progress isn't necessarily a good thing. Now progress out of necessity, thats a whole different story.

We wouldnt be where we are today, and we are just gonna get better. That is, if tech goes in the right direction...

If everyone was perfectly content and happy there wouldn't be a need for technological advancement.

Which goes back to why communism, while a really good idea on paper just wont ever succeed in the real world. Humans in general are a very needy,violent, and greedy species.

Actually, the Garden of Eden sounds fun.

=P

Now look at what the human world has resulted in due to "progress."
Just one commonly used example, the military. We have the ability to destroy all life on this planet many times over. In fact, we might be able to destroy planets in the future because we keep on making it better and better.

And in my opinion, the world has already been dominated by the destructive tech. Too bad constructive tech would be so much better.

Edit:
Back to communism.

Um...

Communism doesn't work.

Yay?

:psyduck:

Yay.

Communism will never work.

I rest my case.

Agreed.
OH NO! DABATENESS IS LEAVING US!!! NOOO!!!!!! D:

Bah! Fools, communism doesn't mean equality for everyone. Have you seen how many homeless people there are? Have you seen all the beggars, thieves?! Walalalalalalalarhg! Sorry.

Translation: I have no idea what true communism is. And I just want to increase my post count.

That's because the people who head that "communism" are retarded. In the later years, the leaders of Russian "communism" started running a plan that will completely succeed in what it was supposed to do, completely starve its own people.

Yeah...

I thought Russia wasn't communist anymore.

In the past...

Russia (or Soviet Union) collapsed some number of decades ago.

They now have a communist government mixed with some democratic policies, same goes for china.