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Title: MS: 3rd Tier Fighter Discussion


Kyrillos - July 17, 2006 12:22 AM (GMT)
For those playing MS, and those that HAVE been playing MS, here's something you'll want to know for later:

In the higher levels, Party's are the way to go. Cleric's, espicially Support/Heal Clerics are loved, but so are the 3rd tier Warriors?

The Warrior Class Tree is as follows:

Beg->Swordsman

Swordsman->Fighter or Page or Spearman

Fighter->Crusader

Page->White Knight

Spearman->Dragonknight

The pros and cons of each are as follows:

Crusader:

Pro: High Attack, High HP, 20000+ Damage attacks.

Con: Low DEF, Low MP,dosn't excel in either 1v1 or mob fighting/no really good qualities past uber powerful 20000+ attacks and/or The 2nd tier ragey thing.

White Knight:

Pro: Decent Attack, Decent DEF, Decent HP and MP, Elemental Attacks

Con: Balanced Well when built well.

Dragonknight:

Pro: Decent HP, MP, ATK, and DEF, has skills that hit up to 15 onscreen people

Cons: Sucks on 1v1.



Techincally, the dragonknight is considered the best third tier of the warriors, simply because of the mob attacks.

HOWEVER, the WK is the most valued Partier in higher levels. Elemental Attacks literally own. They can also hold their own, and Blunt Weapons are cheap! Plus Threaten is fun ^^

Crusaders, are common, and pretty boring, as their only trait is a possible 20000+ attack, the most powerful in the game, but they suffer from excessive amounts and no decent skills that are valued in parties past that. They can just slaughter. That's all their good for.

Kojiro - July 17, 2006 12:32 AM (GMT)
What do you mean "does not excel in 1v1 or mob fighting"?

When Maxed, Combo allows 220% of damage to be done. Panic, when maxed as well, allow 350% of the damage to be done. If you do 20000+ to a monster, how does it not fare well against 1v1? If used Combo and then Slash Blast (assuming the 220% still applies to skills), then they're good with mobs.

Plus, Crusaders get a Ranged attack. Which can also be used against mobs.

Kyrillos - July 17, 2006 12:49 AM (GMT)
Still, you have no way to deal damage except to the ever increasing Weapon Def Stat.

WE're also ASSUMING that your using a maxed Booster and Maxed Mastery along with those skills, mostly because the Fighter's ACC. is horrid. The worst in the game.

The Page->WK path gets much more ACC, and I can attack more than just the Weapon DEF stat, and do more than spam an attack. I can threaten a DEF down, I can use Power Guard, ETC.

Yours may be a FASTER leveler, but overall, the Crusader is considered the worst, espicially since the Ranged isn't that good, and the page gets an upgraded SB, along with Elemental attacks.

You don't necassarily SUCK at 1v1, but you pale in comparison to a WK, as the WK can take advantage of Elemental Weaknesses, and the WK and PAge have better DEF, so I take less damage, which, over a period of time, means you die faster than me, because I can not only threaten a foe down, I can Iron Body/Power Guard/Threaten a foe, making it so Whatever damage IS dealt to me, I reflect some, then I have a higher DEF, AND I can deal more damage to a foe.

Fury/PG/IB pales in comparison, because Fury and IB cancel each other, and you only get the Fury ATK and the PG reflection, while I get DEF, ATK, and Reflection, better stat ups there.

Do Warriors really NEED range at the third tier? No. Not at all. You'll probably be partying with people in a PQ or something. Or taking big monsters on, ones that need several people.

Crusaders rely on their small amount of pros, but can't capitolize on anything else, making them versitle, but limited at the same time, as they'll never be able to escape the trend of having to add ACC and Deal Damage. Plus Fury lowers your DEF, making you die faster >>

In Mobbing, Crusaders and WK are almost equal, until you factor in a WK's Elemental attacks, then I PWN you, as I can deal the same amount of damage as you, only to a more likely, mower stat, and possibly a monster's weakness, making that a powerful move.

Basically,

Crusaders-> All Around, 1v1 maybe. Mobbing is good, but not as progressive as DK. Best for being by themselves.

WK-> Possibly the best Party Warrior. Elementals and DEF/ATK Lowering skills, as well as magic cancelations.

DK-> Best mob fighters. 1v1 is good, but not too terribly good.

Basically, it goes like this:

Crusaders-> 1v1, can only hit Weapon Def. Tries to make up for it's short comings with a ranged attack, which sadly, dosn't make their range as good as a DK's.

WK-> All around good, best in parties. On Par, or a little less than Crusaders in 1v1, simply due to Higher DEF and Ele attacks.

DK-> Best in Mobs, not the best in 1v1. Can be good for parties due to large area attacks.

Kojiro - July 17, 2006 01:10 AM (GMT)
Actually, isn't the ACC of all Warrior types relatively the same?

Well, the Skills on Page are more "lower the enemy", while the Fighter's are more "upgrade my own stats".

Actually, Shout is good because the Elemental attacks only can attack one monster, if you use Slash Blast you're consuming more MP. The Ranged attack attacks all monsters within Range.

How do they have better Def? Fighters and Pages have the same skills you listed, with the exception of threaten. Is the Dragon Knight that has the Defense boosting and the improving of HP and MP temporarily. We both have the Shield Boosting. So defense is relatively the same. Fighter can reflect attack too :\

It does not matter whether a Fighter uses Rage/Fury, because the damage the Fighter increases surpasses what more damage is done. Basically, Output>Unput when using Rage/Fury.

Well, as you stated "Best for being by themselves", so of course a Crusader will need a Ranged Skill if they are to be by themselves, to prevent KSing. It's also a mob skill.

Well don't all warriors have horrible ACC? Given that their Dex stat is horrible as well? Like I stated before, the Output>Input, eaning when you use Rage/Fury, you take 3-5 more damage, while you deal hundreds more.

To factor in an Elemental when mobbing, you have to use a Charge Skill. And when mobbing, you have to use Slash Blast or the more powerful variant. Which means you consume more MP whereas the Fighters only need to use 1 skill. More MP means you need to use more MP Pots.


Kyrillos - July 17, 2006 01:34 AM (GMT)
Pages also have More MP, so we can sustain the MP longer.

The ranged skill generally isn't leveled up until 90+ anyways, and by that time, you don't need it, there's jsut other stuff you need to get first.

The ACC of warriors is NOT the same. There is a very small, slight increase between each warrior class, in comparison, Pages generally have the best, as the 1h Swords and 1h BW have the best speed of all weapons in the game, the 1h axes aren't exactly the cream of the crop, espicially since axe scrolls are on the rise today, and BW are still LOW.

Factoring in Elemental Charge is the fact that one charge lasts several minutes, and there's only 1 skill that cancels it, meaning you can SB blast for a long time, but I've never been a SB spammer, I've been a PS spammer, and PS deals more damage to one enemy, SB has too much colatteral in so many places, as you have to pay for HP and MP pots, while I waste less HP pots with PS, making it a better 1v1 skill, and my SB isn't a joke either.

Fighters do take more damage in the long run, simply because Rage/Fury cancels out DEF increases from skills, making you deal more damage, but if you get smacking into your enemy by another, you take more damage than I would, because the Monster DEF lower, coupled with my DEF higher, and my reflection, and the monster ATK lower, I can simply deal the same amount of damage as a fury fighter, but take 10-30 less HP than you. Meaning LESS HP pots in the long run. In fact, I use less HP pots than I do MP pots currently, simply because I use more MP, and I buy the cheap ones, and I find my MP pots off my farming monsters as well, making it cheap in the long run. In fact, whenever I make a run from my training area to town, I can almost always deposit 30k+ into the bank each time, further cementing the fact that I have money to use. I currently have 99800 mesos, because I spent 200k dealing in deposit and withdraws of my minerals, meaning I can AFFORD the extra pots at this point.

That, and the monsters at 80+ are usually GIANT and take up the screen, meaning that my charge will be the same as your attack, further augumenting the usefulness.

Shield booster is also a boring stat, and limited, so it's not the best. In fact, shield booster is a wasted thing to some warriors, so I ignore it.

When it comes down to it, Pages can deal high damage consecutively over longer periods of time, because the charge lasts longer than a 20000+ blast, that is a variable attack, when the charge, when added in with meditation, is a powerful tool, not to mention that WK's get up to 150% ele def bonus when they use a charge. You get...a ranged mob attack that any sane mage will kick your ass at. Let me guess, it targets Weapon Def too, which makes it like........uh......throwing a sword. Meaning it
isn't that powerful.

About your percents:

Charge+PS+ Monster's Ele weakness=Pwnage.

I can do 250% extra damge+charge+ele weakness=massive amount, for 12 MP+ Charge's MP, meaning, I pwn you. Plain and simple. Meditation factored in, and my MP regenerates between battles, or at least regenerates the charge cost, letting me start over again.

You can...throw a sword, and hit 6 enimies. I can charge and SB, hit 6 enimies, and hit their weakness.

You see? Crusader isn't versitle at all, it can't ADAPT to a situation.

Kojiro - July 17, 2006 01:53 AM (GMT)
It isn't generally levelled up until 90+. but what if you choose to level it earlier? This is also the turning points of "Warriors are the ones who KS"

Well, you have to remember that Fighters are able to use Swords as well.

Though Combo lasts only for a couple of minutes, it does 220% to all monsters, regardless of weakness. Though you may do more damage to a monster by exploiting it's weakness, wehat about those of the same type? If it's the same type, that requires you to use another spell to cancel it, which uses more MP.

Well, HP Pots don't matter if you recover standing :P, or on a rope if you preffer. It all depends on what the users prefference is. If you like to skill=whore, you often use more MP Pots than HP Pots. If you preffer just a normal attack ,you tend to use more HP Pots than MP Pos.

It's useful to put several points into Shield booster if you plan on using one-handed weapons.

The 20000+ attack is often accompanied with the enemy being blinded (assuming it lives). Which causes it to miss the Fighter more often. In doing so, the Fighter takes less damage. It is that powerful, the reason that it's powerful because it is used with Combo.

I can do 220%, plus the 350% from Panic, for less MP it requires to Charge and use Slash Blast.

In doing so, you require more MP to be consumed.

Kyrillos - July 17, 2006 01:59 AM (GMT)
Standing/Roping to recover also means you lose your training spot, and others can come and take it as they will.

Warriors will be able to KS from 60 onwards, as they have gotten so much stronger in that time frame from 30, that their attacks are pretty powerful.

Choosing the right charge prevents from having to cancel, altough the cancel is a SB like attack that hits up to 6 enimies for the charge+250% I think it is+their weakness, so in effect, It's around 550%+ damage, making it the same.

Skill whores are good for level 30 Pages that pump into the right stats from the start.

Adding the range to the crusader in the beginning is stupid, as you could add to the 20000+ and the other cursader skill [forget what it is], but there are still much more good skills out there, espicially since where the 70 and 80 WK trains [Ice Area], you get much more damage with a fire charge, and by that point, my attack is as powerful as a PS strike without the charge, so I'm really spending LESS MP than you are >>




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