That's right, we have our first Violation of the New Judging Rules.

Due to Kakashi_The_Alchemist judging these battles when(at minimum...) these battles were still un-judged, he has broken the first New Judging Rule.

He judged 5 battles in said topic, so 5 Violations=5,000G subtracted from Bern Vault and added to the prize for this week's competition.

Along with this, Kakashi's name has been removed from the Official Judge List, and the Nation of Bern is now officially disqualified from this week's Judging Competition.

Current Prize: 7,000G

Wah, that seems unfair for Bern. @_@

Um, not sure if it's right for me to jump in on your announcement, but I specifically told him that I was going to judge the rest of the battles in the Standard Arena, not sure if he knew I wasn't going to judge my own battles, but I'm sure that's why he toke it upon himself to judge the battles in Ultima's topic.

As a member of Bern, Kakashi is considered to be a representative of the country. His judging violation effects the country as a whole.

Maybe he'll think before judging random links given to him via PM next time, no?

Seeing as we posted within the same minute, wanted to make sure you saw my post Pondy.

I saw your post. He should have either waited, or judged your battles first. He's aware of the rules.

Hmm, typical. Pondy going STRAIGHT after Kakashi. Fucking bitch.

Kakashi, we need to talk. MSN. NOW.

EDIT: Is he aware of the rules? Do you have any proof that ANYONE has read the rules save yourself? Don't make ignorant comments unless you're damned sure of the bull you're spouting.

*cough* I'm all for protecting your countrymen, but that can't make it any better :blink:

Well, I give my condolences to Bern, Kakashi does seem kinda irritated lately, even mentioning family issues :"(

YEah, because a certain person is going after him at every opportunity.

I'm not going after him at every opportunity.

This could have been anybody. I apologize that it happened to Kakashi, and I even apologized a few times in the PM I sent him.

Rules are rules, and not sticking to them makes staff look incompetent, soft, and biased.

Guys just drop it. I fucked up so what? I accept responsibility for my actions.

[Laughs]

Oh dear, this will be amusing. I can find loads of ways to abuse the system if this is how your dealing with bad judges.

WL all over again via lottery, here someone comes.

EDIT:

Here's how:

Eventually, a WL will spring, because they will have good judges, strong characters, and will just have to wait out the other countries stupidity.

Not to be mean, but this is more of a barrier than a solution to a problem.

This should be fun.

Read the edit my dear friend, I've already outlined it. You've let an Aien within striking distance.

I believe this has been said over and over, but it's nice to know that even someone who's completely inactive has even noticed it.

I'm home for... 24 hours. I'm on the internet for roughly an hour. It's sad if I can glance at a topic, not read the rules, and automatically find an exploit. Personally.

Just because a country levels faster and judges more than other countries, doesn't mean they're exploiting =\

That's like saying Wayne Gretzky exploited hockey by playing better than everyone else.

No... there's no comparison there.

Of course there is. FEW is a competitive game, just like Hockey is. Obviously there are going to be people better at the game, that's how we differentiate the winners from the losers.

Your teammate just got pulled for high-sticking, 2 minutes in the box. Argue with the ref all you want, at the end of the day the calls still been made, and your still down a man for the remainder of the penalty.

Sure it is. Judging rewards are intended (partially) to aid countries. If a country takes advantage of them to win, it's not "exploiting" unless they find an unintended but allowable way to make more $$ off it than normal.

A country that does the stuff kyrillos mentioned is just playing well. FEW is more obviously mathematical and predictable than hockey (since the game is made from math instead of using math to explain the game), but it's a workable comparison. EDIT-It might be a little better if it was "[good sports team] won the [Stanley cup or equivalent title/game/whatever] because they refined their strategy more effectively than anyone else."

An exploit would be "[whatever] won because they pumped steroids."

Also, in terms of good judges, I happen to remember PM'ing a few people during the first wars about characters and judging w/ errors. At least one was a West Lycian. Good judges do not automatically become part of the strongest countries, and being part of a strong country does not make you a better judge. Active judges tend to contribute to countries becoming stronger, that's about it.

Jesus mother fucking christ. Pondy, you're making this new RPG absolutely ridiculous. We all said before this RPG started that we wanted to reduce rules and make it less confusing and more simple. That way people will actually have more fun. Let the guy go for at least one time. Most of the time when you do something in real life that's a small violation, you will get a warning for what you did...I don't think he deserves to automatically get punishment. All these new rules are being sprung to awkwardly and unexpectedly. This new RPG is going a little too far.

In all honesty, Ultima, this ~was~ needed, even though I disagree with how hard the punishment was.

Although it's debatable on how random it was, there needed to be an example of what's going to happen, and that it's no joke.

True, but if a country does have the better judges, it makes you a stronger country by default. You get your characters trained well, because you're getting all your battles judged in a timely fashion. And due to the great judges in the country, you get rewarded, thus making the country better money-wise.

Let me map out the whole picture of this one:

Good Judging Country+Good Characters+Their country's judges following whatever "rules" are there+winning lottery= WL

I'll break this down:

Judging countries I assume are getting money from some of the judging done by it's members. This also means I can assume that all of the characters are active, and at the very least decent. Then, the aforementioned judging "payoff" would increase cash flow to the country. Finally, this little lottery is an easy sabotage, why?

Let's use a dumb example, and by ye gods, if my luck screws me over, so be it:

Bern: 15k
WL: 20k+5k lottery+Weekly Judging people+Good characters= High Crit/STR weapons on high characters, with good critical hits and accuracy.

As it would end up, all this "WL" would have to do is sit back and wait for mistakes. All I've done is found a circumvent to go back to the old system. Ding. Ding. Ding.

---

As much as you'd like to twist words, it's there. I can go into more detail later, but the possibility is already being outlined by myself. It's just going to go back to the old "everyone backstab everyone else while piling up on WL scheme." And since WL will have all the money, they WILL be able to hold out, and they WILL be able to kill you all. Because they are ACTIVELY TAKING MONEY FROM OTHER VAULTS IN A ROUND ABOUT MANNER.

The math adds up, the strategy adds up, the rules are not there to circumvent the problem. The only way to truly get rid of countries money and make sure no one else profits is to do away with judging money and this dumb lottery. If people want to waste their money by gambling into the other countries coffers, then so be it, that's an avoidable thing, fair play if people want to walk into a trap. However, gray areas in rules are not traps, it's just a forum teams ignorance/inability to fine tooth their own creation.

---

Also, I find this exploit in less than 10 seconds, so my hopes on not finding and having to expose other "exploits" is very very small. I will go over the rules with a fine comb, and I WILL post ways to go into gray areas. Just a friendly reminder on my habits, in case you forgot in my absence.

It doesn't matter how much a country judges, it doesn't affect their characters...

If they're active, but spending all their time judging, they can't work on their characters because they're too busy doing other people's battles, comprende? Why would "weekly judging people" be in that little equation of yours? If you have people judging weekly, then you have a shot at winning the reward.

If you take away the judging money, there's no motivation to judge, and therefore, no one if very little are going to want to judge.

Did you skip over the italicized assumptions?

Which is fair. Well, I don't think it is, but the only real solution is to remove the need for daily judges (which means get rid of arena battles, which I assume isn't wanted) or remove any sort of incentive good enough to get people to judge (which could mean no battles getting done, and arena battles being gone for all intensive purposes).

You might end up w/ people judging only the battles of others in their country, but that's probably going to result in them losing out on judging rewards.

Basically, money is important, but isn't as good as exp. As long as the amount of battles judged is fairly well distributed between characters, and isn't limited to bern or wherever, we will be balanced in terms of stats. That alone is worth something.

I agree, it is absolutely not perfect, but your way of fixing it is to basically ignore even bigger problems (lack of judging, or a lack of balance in the judging that goes on). One idea some guy came up with was to use a point system on weapons so characters had a limit on how good the shit they carried into wars was (you know, no sets of a killer, silver, brave, S rank weaps on every character like you end up with in most FEs). Actually, that guy was me, but you know that while I do like to toot my own horn from time to time, I wouldn't bring it back up for that reason alone. Anyways, if you did it right you could allow most/all countries to usually fill in their characters w/ enough good stuff to be formidable in wars, while allowing the most powerful countries a little more leeway in terms of variety on secondary weapons.

The real issue is this. Some people care more about winning the wars than others, have more time than others, or whatever. Activity, in one way or another, will add up no matter how we change the system, unless we eliminate levels and power differences altogether.

Also, congrats UB. According to Kyrillos' way of seeing things, you are now the "West Lycia" of this set of wars.

EDIT-One thing I admit I really dislike is BEXP going to the best judging country. I'd rather it be used as a handicap if at all.

Which is why I didn't include that, because you would also most likely lose your judging privileges it it made a big enough impact that you came with the idea that more judges = better characters

That's debatable, if a country has a bunch of level, say 3's, but 1 level like 10, then it could hire enough level 10 NPCs to make up for it if they have the money to do so.

You're going both ways here man, you say EXP is more important, now you're saying items (and in effect, money) is more important.

I liked that idea, and remember reading and posting in that very topic. But there's always going to be some way to get a little extra cash, so then it's just a matter of who has the best weapons, not who has the most effective set of weapons in order to take down any opponent that may pop up.

You're basically saying that no matter how dedicated a player is to the RPG, how much they try to win, and how much the help out the community, as long as they're winning, you're going to try your best to limit them, and take away all the work they've put into the RPG?

I honestly have no clue what you're saying, or trying to allude to -.0

So, again, you're saying that if a country tries it's hardest to judge other people's battles, that not only should they NOT get some time of reward, but that they get a disadvantage because of it?

So by your way of saying, the country that slacks off the most, doesn't help make the RPG at all, and basically makes everyone else do their work for them, should win?

I forgot about the recent increase on restrictions in terms of balanced judging.

As far as NPCs, I wish there was a restriction, I have no other ideas on how to limit their usefulness (besides the fact that they don't go up). Do they go away if they die? That might be worth making a rule.

No, I'm proposing a general idea for how to balance money out as well. I STILL think that EXP is more important, otherwise I'd just go with kyrillos and say abandon judging rewards.

NO. I'm saying that no matter what you do, you're going to have more active people, and they will probably end up being on the winning side unless everyone is extremely active.

I would like to make it more even, but I still want to leave budge room so active people will win.

Keep the $$$ awards, away w/ EXP awards. Or at least not 7 levels worth of it.

You totally roxxed the judging scene w/ your 18+ battles done. It was badass.

:smartsign:

You're saying that people who try to win with the best of their ability should be limited? That's exactly what I thought you said earlier...

Well, it's not exactly 7 levels, at least Pondy tried to even it out.

*cough* If I can mercenary effectively, which I'm not sure I can with all the new rules, I'll be needing that 700 BExp, shush <_<

18+ battles done? try 40+, and 30+ in my first day <_<

Thanks N-E-Waiz :ihavepie:

Limited, but not to the point which you said.

There should be rewards for people who judge more. But the primary way of winning should not be to judge battles. The importance of stuff like that should be lessened, and the importance of war strats and such should be emphasized. The rules I'm suggesting are an attempt at bare bones restrictions which would limit judge rewards to supplements, not THE deciding factor in a country/individual's strength. Honestly, I'm not even sure-for-sure that they are more important than getting your country's characters stronger, but it seems like they might be. And I'm not in the mood to do any sort of technical numbers work to figure out what would be needed in a 'weapons point' system to limit the importance of $$ (I'm not even snotty enough to say I could if I wanted to). EDIT-Truth be told, I'm just reading and talking about this stuff because it's interesting to think about, I don't have any vested interests.

When I read that, I neglected to notice that it was posted on the 13th.

I feel like I mighta hit a lil over 20 on a my best day? I think there was a mark topic where I got 15 long neglected battles done in one judge-rush.

Ray (or maybe Rey? Or Rei?) used to be a pretty badass judge.

Ray, and I taught him everything he knew, I even have the saved PMs in my Inbox to prove it :)

....You start off with 30k, and you get like 2k every week no matter what, I highly doubt that fighting for 2k every week is going to turn the balance in the whole RPG.

If they really wanted to, they'd go to the sparring arena, that's like 2000 gold per day right there.