On June 30, legislation was passed in Spain that legalized same-sex marriage. The first such marriages are expected after the law is officially published in a few days time. Spain is the third country to legalize same-sex marriage, the first and second being, respectively, Belgium and the Netherlands.

On June 28, Bill C-38 passed the Canadian House of Commons and is currently before the Senate. If the Senate passes it (which it likely will), Canada will be the fourth country to legalize same-sex marriage.

What do you think about all this, hm?

I honestly don't care. Let them do what they want. The State is supposed to be seperated from The Church, so we shouldn't let Christian ideals manipulate the state.

... but this is in Canada and Spain...

I thought you meant, what were our thoughts on it coming to America. Either way I don't really care. Let them do what they want.

I say the amount of states and countires who legalize same-sex marriges should be higher, but what can you do. I feel sorry for gays that it's so hard for them. -_-

It's already legal in my state (MA). I'm not sure what to believe, but You wouldn't be seeing me having a same-sex marriage. But there are people out there who want one. I bet the USA will be country #5 that allows same sex marriage.

I think it's a good thing. People should have the right to do what they want but I don't think America will change its mine soon..It's stubborn

Not with Bush as president anyways. :rolleyes:

I'm... honestly not for this. I can only imagine, little kids growing up thinking that this is right... and, if they legalize this, what's next? Will they allow that religious thing that lets you marry as many people as you want? All I can think about is the little kids growing up within this... what they'll think...

That's a good point..But aren't kids being subjected to that today? Parents are getting better and teaching them to be open minded about things..

I mean, like, there aren't many gays here. They don't do anything in front of people, or, me anyway. If I saw two, say, making out, I would be scarred for a while...

If I saw two gay people kissing like in public, I wouldn't mind..probably because i'm bi

... ... I'm straight, thank you. -_-

But, seriously. My dad's very narrow-minded on this issue. He thinks its completely wrong and shouldn't exist whatsoever. Me, however, I'm subjected to others' opinions, who think it's okay. Alot of people where I live don't think it should be legalized, though. It's kinda like the legalization of marijuana, if you think about it. It isn't really much, but, it can lead to bigger, worser (I know that's not a word) things. That's what really worries me, besides the kids...

If someone is gay, then thats there buisness. Means nothing to me, I still treat them the same. It should be legal, if people want to live like that, then let them.

I would marry a guy if I found the right one..I wouldn't want to hide it

In the bible it says that marriage is between a man and a woman. If you think this way than being gay/lesbian is wrong on so many levels. But if you think of in a more "God wouldnt want us to think bad of certain people" so its really alot like this"

1.(Bible foucused people)
Becuase god says being gay is wrong,it is a sin and is therfore evil.

2.(a optimistic american)
I believee that god wouldnt want us to hate gays just becuase of there lifestyle and so i should respect them.

Doesn't affect me, I don't mind if people of the same sex get married honestly. They deserve the same rights as a straight person, and it isn't like it takes anything away from me.

Agrees with Hiei

Much like hiei's response, it's not my business... if a gay person wants to marry another gay person of the same sex, let them, it's their choice, their life, their busines...

I also, like many others, agree with Hiei. I don't really care or mind. It's their life and they can make their own decisions about what they want to do with it.

I agree with Hiei as well. Let them do what they want. So it's strange a bit to us seeing two men holding hands or two women making out on the beach. But let gays and lesbians do whatever the hell they want. They have free will, so let them do what they want.

That isn't strange :o ... lol, j/k..

I think there should be more gay couples out there... means more child adoption, and we gots way too many children right now.

Not saying I flow that way. Cuz I don't. lmao

I think it is wierd. I mean, you walking down the street on a happy sunny day. You round the corner of a building and BOOM!. There are two guys making out with each other. I think its just wrong.

I have no problem with it.I can think it is weird,but I respect all other races.Also,as I heard on David Letterman show once:

I think gays should be able to marry.If you think gaysex is disturbing,you should let them marry,because then the sex will stop,just like with straight couples.

Besides,people think I'm gay,so if I would,why fear what I am myself.Note:I am not gay.

Edit:I thought same sex marriage was legallized in Sweden too.Bah,I gotta recheck.

First off, I think same sex marrage is wrong, but I respect other's opinions about it, and I REALLY think the Government should just leave people be! It's not the government's problem how people think, as long as those people don't hurt other people because of thoughts.

On a tangent, legalizing marijuana won't be bad (and I swear our family does not, and will never have, drug abusers) only since because it is illeagal, more people do it to feel "cool" and "rebelious." I believe we should teach against it, as we do, but have it legalized, so people will have 1 less reason to do it. Plus, some can't properly function without medical marijuana, and I don't mean because they are addicted.....

Sorry about the off topic stuff.

But The Church is separate from the State. They have no right to get thier religion involved. That's why I'm so against the current administartion in the US. They are mixing the two, and didn't that cause enough trouble back in Old World Europe during or before the Renaissance? History repeats itself damnit!

As several people said, beginning with Hiei, let the gays and lesbians do as they wish, as long as I don't have to watch it involuntarily. I'm all for a good round of lesbo action every once in awhile, but I don't want to see two old guys making out. It's kind of creepy. In short it's the same as my thoughts on abortion: Freedom of CHOICE.

Think with your brain, not with your bible.

Exactly what i was trying to say. Thank you.

First of grondring, I just say "It's Spain." and leave it at that. I can't do anything to affect what happens there, and they really couldn't care less about my opinions, seeing as they don't get any of my tax dollars. That's for the on-topic part of my reply.

Now to address the off-topic rabbit trails...

1. Guy-Guy: Extremely disturbing. Point taken and agreed with.

2. Girl-Girl: Not as offending to the sensibilities... In fact, some wouldn't mind seeing it. Point noted. Still pondering whether to agree with parts it.

Gay marriage. Where do we start with this one?

First off, gay sex isn't prohibited by anything other than our society. Granted, public opinion on the subject has mellowed, but public opinion isn't a law against anything. It's merely an inconvenience.

What I want to know is why they want to be legalized in the first place? Don't they understand that being legalized means that they now pass control over to the state? People got married long before there was ever a government anywhere, so why harp on that point? (My personal opinion on the subject is that the state shouldn't really have control of marriage, period. Maybe that will help you understand my point of view. Anything that the state licenses, it controls. Period.)

As for the bedroom behavior, I believe that it's wrong. Now, that doesn't mean that I'm going to shove a bible in your face and demand that you repent, that isn't my place. Original design of 'marriage' as such is man+woman. Kind of hard to procreate the race otherwise. And sara, the term that you were looking for is 'polygamy'. (Man with multiple wives. There's another term for a woman with many husbands.)

As for Hiei and strikey.... "Think with your brain, not your bible." What a lame line. Frankly speaking, too many 'Christians' think too much with their brain and don't bother with their bible. They find a part and don't use anything that doesn't fit into their theology. Granted, that's a discussion for another time.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Strike, the problem that you have is that you don't read the whole thing. A state-established religion is prohibited, yes. America doesn't have a national church order. Also not allowed (and this is the part that you seem to have the most trouble with), is 'prohibiting the free exercise thereof.' In other words, there isn't anywhere that the government is allowed to prohibit American citizens from practicing their religion.

The problem with the "trouble back in Old World Europe during or before the Renaissance" is the fact that the leaders of the established state religion got enamored with wealth and power. It had nothing to do with religion at all, and only with abusing a position that they shouldn't have been in anyways. (I'm assuming here that you refer to the Inquisition)

History isn't repeating itself.

And as for the reference to abortion - gay sex has never been prohibited in the United States. You're comparing apples and oranges, and coming up with grape juice. These people are already operating in "free choice". Otherwise they wouldn't be doing what they're doing.

Yup. I remembered it yesterday when me and a friend of mine were debating it yesterday. She's pretty open to the whole thing, but, in the end, agrees with the majority of you. She also thinks that my points I mentioned earlier, especially about the kids, are good, too.

Both, in my opinion, are... wrong. Honestly, girls are affectionate anyway, but being that affectionate isn't right. Most of you reading this are guys, so you obviously think the first is wrong. Sometimes, girls joke around with the first one, saying it would be "hot", but, when push comes to shove, most of them feel extremely uncomfortable around it, or, at least I would.

Nah, I don't think guys and guys are wrong, but in all honesty I wouldn't be comfortable near 2 gay guys making out or something. I have nothing against them as people though. I think 2 men, or women should be able to get married. It's there feeling, love, they can't change it. Why shouldn't they have the right to get married? I mean, they shouldn't lose rights just because they weren't born the same as a majority of society.

Well I agree with Hiei but I think they shouldn be able to like make out just in a public bus or something (yes I have seen it) but more like a public bathroom (wich I have also seen and was odly more comfortable seeing)

I suppose it's alright to some people, but I wouldn't feel comfortable being around them, I don't know why, I just wouldn't like it. I suppose it's a good thing for those who are bi, but I hope that the laws end with only same-sex marriage, and not continue on to more serious matters, like gay couples adopting children or something, I don't think it would be right, the child could receive much abuse from others and become confused at the fact the he/she has no mom or dad, whatever the case may be, and it could lead to troubles later in their lives. I don't mind what has been legalized so far, but I truly hope it goes no further, the people can now live happily together, and that's how it should be, and that only. :(

Well, I think in that case, that rule should be for anybody. Except topless lesbians. It isn't really a pleasant site to be watching anybody making out in public.

Lets see...on a personal, attraction/no attraction level, I'm completely repulsed by man/man sex...like I wouldn't do it for tons and tons of money. As for girl/girl, I really don't care-the physical aspect is attractive hormonally I guess, but otherwise uninteresting. However, I think telling gay people to stop relationships and restricting marraige rights is stupid-it would be like homosexual people stopping heterosexual relationships and outlawing heterosexual marraige. They are attracted to who they're attracted to-I don't have any more right to condemn them for that then they have the right to condemn me.

All in all, I don't think you can say it's unnatural, as we're starting to uncover "gay" animals, even, for instance to male octopi going at it. This particular event was discovered when they were diving underwater to examine the chemeosynthetic life underwater, that live off of sulfur (I think it was) vents under the ocean, but point made is that homosexual tendencies are not restricted to humanity. I've also heard of other occasions, but I'd be hard pressed to remember specific examples besides that octopus one right now (but that idea scarred me, eww).

It's probably easier for me to accept gay mairrage and gay people because I'm not religious. Unlike abortion, for instance (which I'm indecisive on, though I'm definitely for when the mother will die if the pregnancy isn't aborted), I don't believe there's any ground outside the bible and other religious documents to reject gay marraige. As for anyone who thinks we should outlaw gay sex because no procreation occurs (I think someone mentioned it), and thus there is no use...I suppose we should outlaw sex during pregnancy of any kind, huh?

Honestly...I strongly dislike religion, but I understand Christians who believe the Bible=divine mandate following it to a letter. But since Jesus Christ himself advocated general noninterference with government (render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's), I think Christians should restrict governing to other Christians, not stretch it into nonchristian life.

However, I do feel that the idea of gay bishops (Episcopalians) is absurd, when the bible that the bishop is supposed to be following is completely anti-gay. THen again, as a bishop he isn't having sex, so I'd say that's ok, right?

EDIT-As far as I'm concerned, making them shuffle into private areas to make out is just plain discrimination. It's horrible, and is the same kind of attitude that would promote Apartheid and segragation of African Americans, just that you have a problem with a different minority.

As for adopting children, I know a couple next door to me, both women, who have raised to perfectly nice, normal, happy children who have plenty of friends. The only place they'd be persecuted would be in communities of close-minded, bigoted people. The solution to that is to solve the problems with the predjudiced people, not to place restrictions on the people who are being persecuted. Another comparison can be made to the Japanese internment camps in America-one point of rationale was that we would "protect the Japanese from angry American citizens". Of course, there is actually danger from bigots-many gay people have been killed for being openly gay, and the solution is to place restrictions on the victims? Good job, facist oppressor.

I thought the bill here in Canada was already passed? anyway, Hiei really has the idea i think. who are we to judge who you can and cant love? What gives us that power?

And you perhaps do not think that it is reversed for (ahem, most) females?

You know, I really don't know. I'd say, generally, that some do and some don't (and I also suppose there are guys who aren't interested in girl/girl). I know 2 girls who are very interested (one is one of those crazy yaoi fangirls, like the crazy hentai fanboys except female), and 3 who definitely aren't. To be honest, though, I don't feel comfortable going up to all the other girls who I know and asking "do you find that guy/guy couplings turn you on?" so I don't think I'll ever know from a statistical standpoint.

i need to go to bed cause i must wake up early but i will write what i can and probably expand it on a laiter date


first of all marrage has been since as long as there was man and woman that is why (nearly) everyone says marrage( in one form or another) is right and needed

but if you think about it a homosexual marrage makes no sense because...

first of all God made a MAN AND a WOMAN not a man and a man or a woman and a woman......understand

second let me see a homosexual couple produce a baby without technology or an out of marrage 'relationship'

third the one reason for marrage is because God made it a requirement to have unsinfull sex

fourth as far as the adoption goes.....yes some will work out but not many children as they grow up need a masculine and a feminine examples otherwise they will be missing on or the other and therefore (debending on gender) will more than likely become a homosexual trying (even if they dont relize it) to gain what they lacked as a child

i will have more in a couple of days...........i need sleep now

Well, first off, it's just sexist to say you need a masculine and feminine example. Maybe you didn't notice, but that whole dad as breadwinner and mom as the housewife doesn't really apply anymore. In fact, it's a bad idea if the son decides to use their dad only as a role model for what they should be like, or the daughter uses only their mom as the example of what women should be like. Both parents should be examples to their kids as people, not as men or women. Moreover, there are many times when the husband beats the wife. Are heterosexual marraiges really full of virtue and righteousness? I've met kids screwed up because their mom or dad was, but I know a few kids of homosexuals and they're doing great. For you to say "more than likely" without some kind of well researched statistic to back it up is actually lying.

Second off, the argument about "it's been around forever" doesn't make sense either. If you didn't notice, you aren't living in a cave hunting animals, why do you need to emulate ancient human society? Slavery was a major part of Southern USA culture before the Civil War, and segregation existed long after. It was accepted because it had been around for so long. The argument that length=righteousness is simply useless.

Of your three middle requirements, I don't even need to address the top and bottom, because I'm not a Christian. If your god told you that it was sinful for a man and another man to have sex, than prohibit it in your own churches. I don't care what your god says.

The middle one is that you need advanced technology or adoption to get a baby in a homosexual relationship. First off, your statement implies that a marraige requires children. While having children is desirable (population increase) in a married couple, where the child will have both parents, it is true that not all married couples have or are required to have children. Meanwhile, there are many unmarried people having children - which is worse, having two dads or two moms, or one dad or one mom? Yet you, as a Christian, would encourage having a baby rather than aborting it in the second case, despite the fact that children with only one parent would probably have it worse than a kid with both parents of one gender (which you've still given no evidence outside of the bible would be bad

Secondly, if technology is the major thing that you believe should not be used for fertilization, than I suppose we should prohibit children for people who are sterile-after all, they would normally not have children. And we should stop using medication to save babies with - blood in a + blood mother. And we should stop using C-sections when it's necessary to get the baby out safely. Technology is evil, after all, and you should have completely natural, higher fatality rate births. Yup, that's right.