now I know that posting this howard dean style democratic cheap shot guarentees me a good ol fashioned @$$-woopin ^_^ , but I have to say this:

Bush has talked about Christianity on many accounts, and linked to that has been gay marriage. Gay marriage technically may be against the bible, but there are an extremely limited number of verses against it, only 2 or 3. However, there are at least 10 times that many (KEYWORD: LEAST) verses in the bible which CONDEMN THOSE WHO REFUSE TO HELP THE POOR, now that brings up an interesting question: does fighting like hell over things like gay marriage justify religious publicity, or have the republicans condemned thereselves with their policies which are so harsh on the poor?

and while I'm at it how about this one:

HOW THE HELL IS IT POSSIBLE TO BLOW A FREAKING 2.5 TRILLION DOLLAR SURPLUS ON SOME DAMN TAX CUT THEN START A PROGRAM ENCOURAGING TEACHERS, WHICH ARE PAID BY TAXES, TO DO BETTER WITHOUT ADDITIONAL FUNDING AND STAY IN THE HIGHEST OFFICE OF THE US GOVERNMENT TO CONTINUE TO RECKLESSLY AND ARROGANTLY RUN THE COUNTRY?!?!?!?! :hopping: :hopping: :hopping:

and there's today's ramble


so, when are all you guys gonna form an angry mob then show up at my door?

No, I comepletely agree.

I agree, yet (even though i have never actually opened a Bible, as I am Hindu) those 1 or 2 verses on gay marriage will be enough for Bush to back himself up. I compleatly agree on the tax thing, and another point to ponder:

Bush is spending money on a war. That is one very neutral comment. Yet, and this is truthful, he denies to put money into stem cell research! Is it immoral to use embryos that are going to waste for something that one day may cure a vast array of extremely fatal diseases? It's as if Bush said, "Oh ya, I'll give money to destroy life, but not to help it."

Food for thought...

Oh there'll be an angry mob alright, led by ME... but we'll be asking you to join us... BWAHAHAHA :ph43r:

Makes some sense...but you have to look at two things.

-First off, you can always aruge on these things...I can see one already. There's already been the general spiritual appeal of the attack on the virtues of marraige that gay-marraige is to some people (most of them Christian)...but it doesn't change the fact that there's a general argument against gay marraige, even if it's very weak without any kind of religion backing it up. Meanwhile, they can always argue it's not the government's job at all to feed every poor person, just to help out American citizens somewhat and leave the rest of the job to food pantries and other charity organizations, but that Marriage is something the government needs to regulate. There, there's a basic argument, if bashable, and I'm only 16 and have no political experience.

-Second off, there's a difference between the bible and what modern christians, even if they're orthodox, believe. It's tough to decide who's best in terms of giving out charity and stuff at a glance, but you know in short statements what politicians are going to do about gay marraige. The debate about what's best is easy-yes or no, not much of a middle ground, except for the people supporting Civil Unions. Meanwhile, poverty is a tougher issue because there's no simple answer to it, and moreover it'll be much tougher to regulate.

The only real question about gay marraige is whether the US would recognize a gay couple from another country as married while visiting here, and whether, for instance, a state with gay-marraige outlawed would recognize people who've had gay marraiges elsewhere as married.

EDIT-Finally, there's an ethical problem with this. You're being weak. You're conceeding to the church extending its reach into the state, by trying to prioritze which Christian values should be extended into the public. You shouldn't be using the bible to argue for gay marraige, because the Bible isn't an arguing point. The Bible is a religious document and irrelevant to the discussion, and you're just giving a certain religion power over the government. You think you're arguing against Church's control over state, but you're ultimately arguing for both charity and prohibiting gay marraige. Argue for less use of the bible, not more of it! We should help the poor because they're people, not because God says so.

I'll be there in a couple minutes Firecross but just one question. Do we have to supply our own guns and grenades or do you provide those?

One question: How many of you pay taxes?

If you do, then you have cause to debate the pro's and con's of taxcuts. I do pay taxes, so I like anything that cuts down on the amount of money that I have to throw to the government.

As for the 2.5 Trillion dollar surplus - HELLO!!!! (Surplus - above and beyond what is required). The government was taking more money from the people than they really needed, and then thinking up more ways to spend it, so they could justify taking it in the first place. I don't know about you, but that's just downright wrong in my opinion.

As for government-funded 'help the poor' initiatives, well.... let's just say that I'd like a say in who I help with my money. Welfare.... gets me irritated, cause somebody or other is using it to support their own lazy lifestyle. Not everyone mind you, but there are some, and I don't want to give them money.

As for the mob - what are you trying to say with that, Firecross? We're civilized people in America, after all.

I have to agree with Black Valor, somewhat. I don't pay taxes yet, but when I do I'd prefer to choose where my money goes myself, and not have the government collecting excessive taxes. At the same time, I do believe that everyone owes some responsibility to helping people in need, but I don't believe there should be some system that forces people to give their money to that cause. I'd rather people would give of their own free will, not because some of their taxes go to the poor.

While I think we should do what we can do to help the poor, we shouldn't be doing it because there are more passages in the bible about it than gay marraige, and we shouldn't be doing it because the government is making us.