I believe:
1-we have free will.
2-God knows what we will do.
3-God knows what choices (using our free will) we will make.


what do you believe?

I believe we have free will..no one dictates or knows what our future holds for us..we live in the moment, each and everyday..What we make of our lives will be by our own choices. That is what I believe

Yes, I believe we have free will. We can do what we want, when we want, where we want. We can make our own decisions and alter our own lives.

I believe the same thing.

Well, I agree with the first one, but being an atheist puts a damper on the other two.

Yes we all are born with free will. We have the choice to be what we want and do what we want. No one can stop us from choosing what we do.

Yes, I agree, but I only try to think of the first one mainly ;)

Whats with you and God Jesus-boy? Like seriously, no one here really wants to get a lecture on "The All-Powerful God" which by the way is a pile of Grade A horse shit.

You know what. He can post whatever he likes. If you don't want to read it then don't read it. It's your problem if you read this or not. He's just starting another topic. Also curse/swear words are not necessary for making a point.

:peace:

myles_master

@Durendal

there is nothing wrong with this topic, and im not 'lecturing anyone. I just made this topic to see what the other people on this site thought about free will. In many cases i could say the same thing about aithiest, because in many cases athiest talk just as much as I have (look in some of the other topics i have posted it).

[quote]"The All-Powerful God" which by the way is a pile of Grade A horse shit.[quote]durendal

have you ever thought what would happen if it is all true?

@Myles
the word shit itself is not a swear or a curse but an more rude way of saying poop ,but using it as a negative comparison of God that it is a sin.

@ Myles: You're right, I don't have to read this. But I do, and once I have read this I have to post my opinion. Also, I really don't care what you think about my swearing, because I don't know you.

@ Jesus-boy: A topic on free will would have been great, but you had to add in the whole God bit. Its really annoying when you Bible people take perfectly good subjects which I would like to discuss, and turn them into God related subjects. And yeah I have thought about what would happen if it was all true, then I realize that the whole concept of a being with an infinate amount of power is bullshit.

Don't care whether I have free will or not. Either what I'm doing is my own decision, or some all/more powerful being is controlling me. It doesn't matter to me, I'm not dissatisfied with the way things are going.

Durendal has a point there..There can't be an all powerful being that just existed out of nowhere..someone had to create it and then someone had to create that person too and so on and so forth so it's just impossible..

@harusaki

then how did we get here?

God would not need to be made by anyone/anything because He is infinite, He has always been and always be. humans can not relize this on there own because we are finite.

@durendal

I listed all three things for clarifycation, because in other topics I have said that God knows what will happen. some people might take that as me saying that we have no free will and that everything is predestined.

I did that for clarification. not to start a whole big argument over.

Man you're really really annoying....It's not possible for something to have always existed. Everything has a begginning. And no one knows how we got here. By the Bible we came here some 5000 years ago when god made man from nothing and woman from man on the 7th day after creating the world. But what about dinosaurs and the time before dinosaurs? The Earth has existed for billions of years.

durendal

how do you know it is impossible for something to have always existed?
we cannot comprehend eternity because our minds our finite...not infinite.

it was day 6......
how do you know that the earth is billions of years old?

as for dinosaurs.........they did and may still exist in the deep forests an oceans
the Bible even acounts for dinosaurs

Genisis 1:21a

the GREAT CREATURES OF THE SEA

and i Job

Job 40:15-18,23a

that sounds like what we call a long-neck dinasour

Alright guys, let me quote something:

Please obey it.



I personally believe in Free Will, but I'm not positive that it revolves around God. I believe in him and all, but, not everyone does...

Free Will, yes.
Everything else, don't care.

Wow....You're a really really weird little kid aiscool. Thats beside the point though, a great creature of the sea could be anything, a whale, a really really big deep sea fish that someone caught a glimpse of, an extinct species of fish, ANYTHING. There is nothing you could ever say to convince me that there is something that has always existed, everything has a begginning. Its a possiblility that there could be something that has existed since the begginning of time, but not before time. I don't really care which day it was on man, honestly. I know the earth is billions of years old because it has been scientificly proven that the earth was made over 4 billion years ago when dust particles from whatever created the universe(which I don't deny I do not know). The oldest known rock is 3.9 billion years old and scientists found its age by radiometric dating methods.

what he said

Sara. He is not forcing religion just defending.

Durendel. How did the dust particles get there. It couldn't have just apeared

Everyone. Swearing is not necessary. Even if your using it as an example it is still not secessary. I think it is very immature to think your cool because you swear. [sarcastic] Wow. I'm cool because I say words that shouldn't be said [/sarcastic]

:peace:

myles_master

I'm sorry Sara, but Durendal has already contacted me about the matter. He is simply defending his beliefs. (And, if I was not an administrator, I would say something extra.)

Well once again Myles we get to the point that I don't really care what you think of me or my swearing... And I believe I stated that I don't know what caused the dust particles to be there in my previous post.

that is an unreliable form a daiting.....
one example is a rock with a tree in it that was dug up in Mägenwil (Switzerland) a while back

the date of the rock was about 20 mil years
and the date of the tree was 36,440 years ± 330 years

how can that be? the tree would have had to be older than the rock. that does not work.
it is not a reliable dating method.

also the half-life of Carbon14 (which is used for that dating method) is 5,730 years +/- 40 years so..... Carbon14 cannot be used for millions of years

It's fun watching stupid people argue over things they wish they could comprehend.

God: If you're real I'm going to hell, if you're not I'm going to just die and if Odin was right then I'm going to Valhalla bitches!!!

Tell me something? Do you ever look at rocks? You may well notice that sometimes, plants grow out inside of them and make small cracks.

Moreover, the rock itself may well have melded around the tree or some such. I'm not willing to make any conclusions on the situation, especially since your description is not necessarily enough to convince me whether it's possible or not. Also, I presume there are defenses for that argument from actual scientists that are more reasonable than my half-baked ones, but whatever.

As for the translation you used from Job...simply the identity of that creature, as well as the way in which that passage is translated, is greatly different. Hell, the story of Job itself is often translated incorrectly into Latin and English.

Case in point. I don't remember which edition (so maybe you don't believe me, I don't care. I think it may be the King James version.) Job is a humble man, who consistently hoping that if he continues a path of righteousness nonetheless, God will reward him.

In the original version, Job is in fact defiant, shouting that he wishes he could take God to court, for he knows he has made no offense, but he believes in the morals themselves and continues to follow Jewish teachings. Eventually, God catches a Leviathan, which comes off better as a whale in some translations I've been explained about, and tells Job off for questioning someone who's created the world and is far beyond him.

This is ultimately a testament in Christianity and Judaism (do Muslims follow the Torah with the Qor'an? I'd think not, since they split off first), as it enforces, loosely, the idea that it's up to us to help people in need, not like Job's friends who just tell him he's wrong.

EDIT-Anyway Aiscool, I think you're kinda neglecting the fact that the Bible and Torah have probably changed throughout the years, both due to translation errors and, perhaps, the wish for various groups to change it to suit themselves. I'm inclined to think that the Story of Job described a whale, but I really don't know. It's quite possible for civilizations to predict things that were thought to have existed and did as phenomena and divine, as well as things that didn't (see dragons).

it was not a full grown tree it was fragments of a tree not a whole tree



as for the traslational errors....yes there are some........but in the original language there are very few

how we know:

a while ago, spring 1947, some scrolls containing a large portion of the Bible on them were foind the scolls dated to about 1st or 2nd century BC

when compared to the current copeis of that time there where nearly 0 defferences besides changes in grammer.


How did we get here from talking about free will?

Me being stupid and absentminded, it happens a lot. I mean in terms of translations, not older bibles to modern ones. Sorry if I didn't clear that up. But some further digging indicates most Christian bibles are more accurately translated now anyway, so it doesn't matter.

Fragments of a tree makes it easier - ever heard of fossils? They happen with plants as well as with animals, both leaves and small pieces, and so on. If it was a tree growing in a rock, that would have been much wierder, but fragments is simply fossilization. It's quite possible for the things containing a fossil to be younger than the fossil itself. What I thought you meant would have been a more serious question to science (and there are many), but that's a pretty easy one.

I don't know about the exact specifics of carbon dating - that is, I've never used it - and so I won't defend it as a 100% accurate method. I'm simply going to say that nothing is necessarily proven.

Anyway, I think Durendal's points are a little wierd. While I don't think the of most holy books as plausible for the ultimate word of God - I don't believe humans would've gotten it - I think an omniescent being is as possible as a random burst of something sparking a chain of events that led to things such as the big bang and so on. Durendal can argue all he wants, but we have no idea how any energy that caused the big bang would have appeared. Ultimately, you either need a divine presence that has been in existence forever and controls everything (the specifics, like intent and conciousness of that being, are not really even worth discussing) or a random nothing became something. Durendal seems to believe that a God existing invalidates aiscool's posts, but he hasn't given much of a reason as to why.

Anyway, I think that if we do have free will, we will continue to excercise it. The two possibilities of no free will are either that god does exist and controls our actions - simple to think of - or the possibility of nonrandomized decisions. The last is a little tough to explain, as I've never really heard anyone say it. It's my idea alone as far as I know, but I'm sure others have thought of it.

Anyway, we know humans respond to different things in different ways. Ultimately, it's probable that, run through the exact same situation (I mean like anything that has ever come in even the vaguest contact with you, to be sure) we'd always do the exact same things...but since we never have as far as we know (we may be in different moods, slight differences can make a difference, so many other little variables in our actions) we can't really be sure. I think it's probably impossible to run two such experiments on someone in exactly the same way, and at the same time have the action be related to something important enough that they might seriously consider their decision every time.

While we're on the topic of god, If you don't think jesus is your savior then he's not, you're going to hell, according to christians. But if you think he's your savior, he is, again, according to christians. I was thinking about this earlier and it had something to do with free will, as well...

fun, fun, fun, I'm sorry I didn't come here sooner

he said that the rock around the tree was older than the tree, which is scientifically (gag) impossible

I understand the concept of carbon dating, and how it is used, but since even the half-life is longer than modern science has existed, even that could be flawed. if the half life used in the calculations is wrong, the conclusion could WAY off the actual answer

@ aiscool

what exactly is a swear or a curse then?