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Altezza Club Of NZ/Australia > Engines Intakes Exhausts > Inter Forum Collaboration Of Beams 3sge Info

Title: Inter Forum Collaboration Of Beams 3sge Info

roman - July 31, 2006 12:25 PM (GMT)
Hi folks.

I'm posting on behalf of a few dedicated enthusiasts who are passionate about owning, modifying, rebuilding, racing beams 3SGE VVTI engines.

Unfortunately, we seem to be spread rather thin compared to some other types of engine. :)

There's slivers of info here and there on the internet, about after market bits, modifications, and how worthwhile they are, dyno plots of engines in various configurations, etc. etc.

Over on, we have a dedicated area for BEAMS VVTI engines.

The incarnation of the beams engine that the late model SW20 MR2 got, is basically the single VVTI version of the dual VVTI altezza engine; many aftermarket pieces etc. are interchangable.

As such, I think it is beneficial for all involved, for a bit of information swapping. :D

We have a dyno registry results area, anyone with a beams VVTI engine is welcome to post their results.

Our engine on the top of the list is an NA dual VVTI altezza engine, making 180kw at the rear wheels. B)
Very cool indeed. (Well it's only listed as 210hp ATW, but is making 180kw ATW in current form)

Of course any information over there, is welcome to be browsed/used here.
I am not posting here with the intention of poaching members, so much as get some feedback/correspondence from like minded people.

If anyone wants their dyno plots etc added to the registry, or wants wants to know any other information about these engines, just ask. I know a fair amount about the various generations of 3S engines, but mostly the VVTI ones.

Alternatively, if you have any useful information to share, please do so. :)

Kind regards,

I love altezzas BTW, anyone that wants to take me for a ride in their tezza in the AKL region can come for a ride in the MR2. :D

roman - July 31, 2006 12:41 PM (GMT)
Just in case anyone is interested, on what particular setup I am running.

I have two VVTI engines.

Both 200hp single VVTI 'redtop' engines.

One is from an ST202 celica, the other from an SW20 MR2.
Both were only available in very limited numbers, in 1998-1999.

My car is currently running the ST202 engine, with an apexi pod filter, HKS intake pipe, TOMS headers, cusco flywheel, exedy 5 puck clutch, NA transaxle with cusco clutch pack LSD.

The car currently weighs 1025kgs, so it has a fairly decent power/weight ratio.
With aftermarket exhaust/seats, it will be under a tonne, and there's a few more ways I can cut a few kgs off.
It runs really well as is, anyway.

My other engine currently resides on the engine stand, awaiting further finances to carry on the build up.
It's been rebuild with .5mm O/S pistons, full balancing, port & polished head.
There isnt much point in putting it in the car until I have some cams & ECU for it, and can take advantage of a higher redline. :) 8500rpm is the goal.

Here are some pics.

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I'm interested in seeing any dyno plots that anyone has, relevant mods, etc.
I hear that the TRD extractors are worth 15kwatw on their own, I'm not surprised, look how sexy they are! I wish they would fit on the MR2. rofl

user posted image

roman - July 31, 2006 12:54 PM (GMT)
Also, I have some questions for some tech headed owners of dual VVTI engines. :P

Titanium valves... True or false?

The redtop didnt get titanium valves, but they have sodium cooled exhaust valves, which are rather pricey to replace. I would assume that the altezza engine as the same, or better. Does anyone know for sure?

Also, does anyone have the pinout for the altezza ECU?

If I can modify my wiring loom to run an altezza ECU, and use the slightly larger altezza injectors, I can get a slightly higher redline out of my engine. (Is currently 7400 instead of 7800 or so for altezza engine) If I can get a tandard altezza ECU to run on my engine, that means I can use the Altezza PowerFC, which would be great.
As there is no plug and play ECU for my particular engine that allows VVTI control, apart from a modified altezza powerFC from a company in Japan, which sells them for almost twice the price as an ordinary one. :(

Albezza - July 31, 2006 03:17 PM (GMT)
HI there, i have been registering on all 3SGE Beams / Altezza forums to gather this same content..

i have a Altezza a bought modified from japan (SS 4-2-1 Headers, Fightex / Toda Coilovers, HKS RS intake, TANABE Racing Medallion Exhaust and who knows what else)

i am searching for ECU pinouts and any other usefull info...

what i have found is this..

you can register and get teh needed pages for a couple days or order the manuals online, i have not tried this myself..

on i have found on japan yahoo auctions that there are complete service manuals and ecu pinouts , wiring diagrams etc,, BUT they are all in japanese, i asked the japanese embassy about translating it for me, but i didnt get a very enthusiatic response lol.. i have someone my mom knows there and i'll try her..

here is the CD rom..

other than that, i am about to start to install simple bolt ons at first, i was going to get the APEXI intake and intake box, mainly caue i HATE the sound of the HKS RS pod.. Cusco Flywheel & clutch kit, Cusco 1.5way LSD, some chassis / suspension parts

i was also going to get the Greddy Emanage Ultimate, Power Enterprise CAMCON or the Apexi Power FC (i am leaning more towards the Power FC as it does VVTi and base timing and Fuel adjustments) i think the CAMCON can only do VVTI in our application cause the stock ECU re-learns the fuel curves and adjust the maps to suit on the ecu (toyota lexus self learning ecus <_< ) and i am not too sure on teh Emanage Ultimate but from looking at your dyno info allot of the celica single vvti guys are using them so they can obviously control the vvti, but can it do dual vvti?? i heard only the FC and CAMCON can.. not too sure..

but i am also looking into tuner ECU's like TOMS, TRD, MINES and AMUSE especially.. AMUSE is renowned in japan for their NA tuning skills.. but not seeing an application on their site.. but i am sure with these i will still need some kinda fine tuning (Safc Emanage etc) and with that i can just buy an Emanage Ultimate and forget the chipped ecu..

other than that i have found allof of Altezza parts online.. but expensive..

roman - August 1, 2006 12:25 PM (GMT)
Okay, what can you tell me about this CAMCON device?

I take it is like a VVTI controller, mixed with an SAFC type device?

This sounds good to me, I could run an aftermarket ECU, with the CAMCON running the cam timing.

Much cheaper than the powerfc alternative!

jasestu - August 1, 2006 06:46 PM (GMT)
I'm sure I've posted extensively on it, but it may have been in the VIP section...

It's a VVT controller (intake cam only) and an A:F controller. It works solely off rpm.

A power FC on the otherhand would allow control of both intake and exhaust cams, as well as control based off throttle position...

Camcon is designed for the stock ECU only, so not sure how it might get on with an aftermarket unit.

Good info over on the Sillycar forums:
Camcon install and tuning, and
How does a Camcon work

greeneyes - August 2, 2006 08:27 AM (GMT)
Hmm... I've got some ECU diagrams in Auckland on my computer up there- My Toyota dealer very nicely sent me a few megs of sytem plans.

send me a PM so I remember this weekend

Albezza - August 2, 2006 06:22 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (greeneyes @ Aug 2 2006, 08:27 PM)
Hmm...  I've got some ECU diagrams in Auckland on my computer up there-  My Toyota dealer very nicely sent me a few megs of sytem plans.

send me a PM so I remember this weekend

hey any diagrams would be great, please let us know when you get them, i can offer hosting if you wish to put them online for everyone :rolleyes:

roman - August 5, 2006 11:05 AM (GMT)
It's a VVT controller (intake cam only) and an A:F controller. It works solely off rpm.

Do you realise the distinct difference between VVTI and VVT?

To clarify, does it work with VVTI as well?
If VVT only, it would only be good for silvertop/blacktop 4ages

A power FC on the otherhand would allow control of both intake and exhaust cams, as well as control based off throttle position...

Excellent, this is what I'm really looking for. Is there anyone here that has one? I'm just wondering how it controls, do you specify cam angle relative to crank angle, or what?

A crude RPM only trigger isnt really what I'd like to have.
I would like to advance the engine beyond it's factory configuration, not make it less sophisticated. :)
If you know what I mean.

jasestu - August 6, 2006 04:00 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (roman @ Aug 5 2006, 11:05 PM)
To clarify, does it work with VVTI as well?


turbo tezza - August 7, 2006 08:05 AM (GMT)
I have a Power FC in my Altezza. It was the only real way to control the fuel and ignition for the extra 'go' that you get with a turbo ;)

The Power FC is adjustable in the ignition map from -50 to +50 degrees in timing, (i think) its a large range anyway.

Air flow map, injector duration, intake cam and exhaust cam are all adjustable.

I'm running 10 psi boost and a compression ratio of about 9:1 making 160 KW at wheels.

Its not overly impressive, but reliable.

Mods I have done:

larger injectors (440cc out of st185 gt4 celica, need resistor pack aswell)

TRD Lightweight flywheel
TRD sports clutch
TRD heavy duty pressure plate

Car came with:

Greddy/Trust turbo kit, running 230x600x76mm front mount intercooler with alloy piping, Greddy exhaust manifold, Greddy TD04H 16T 300HP Turbo.

Yes, the altezza runs titanium intake valves on the manual models. The manual also has higher lift cams. This is where the manual is able to have a higher redline over the auto and tiptronic models :)

Cheers Corey

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