Engine Probs w pod filter (Altezza Club Of NZ/Australia)

Title: Engine Probs w pod filter
Description: can we all sort this out finally??

senza - June 27, 2007 05:37 AM (GMT)

So up at the auckland dyno day, according to Torque Performance my car was running mega lean with a mung A/F ratio and detonating which was rather visible.

Heres a scan of the dyno sheet:

user posted image

So I booked it in to get it looked at at the local Toyota dealership in Tauranga and they ran diagnostics and all that jazz and apparently they reckon that theres nothing wrong with it at all.

Toyotas comments:

user posted image

The diff has been replaced when I bought it by the car yard
No idea wether the engine has been changed or not
ECU wiring was most likely when I got the alarm installed but not 100% sure
Gauges were on the car before it was imported from Japan but were removed by the previous owner in Japan

Anyone able to help out or provide some info about what could be going on?

greeneyes - June 27, 2007 06:16 AM (GMT)

"ECU will not communicate with tester"

Well, that severly limits what they can find out anyway! How could they measure timing or A/F ratio O2 sensor performance??

What sort of air filter is on it?

Detonation is usually too lean (so either air sensor wrong or computer not reading correctly) or ignition too advanced. (CPU problem)

Maybe you can borrow an Apexi off someone in the club and re-set A/F ratios to see if it makes a difference, or re-set ignition.

If not, take it to a race car tuning place in Tauranga. If you don't know any, start with the guy that used to run the supercharged Altezza in the Targa Rally. He had that set up in Tga.

senza - June 27, 2007 06:37 AM (GMT)

Oh right, forgot to mention they said that they overode the ecu because it wouldnt communicate - so I'm assuming they then did those tests. I'll have to find out tomorrow.

It's an HKS filter - I couldn't tell you the model or whatever but it looks the same as this

The only performance tuning place I know if is Speedfactor, might try get a hold of that guy because I'm having supercharged thoughts myself although that may just be me dreaming but hey.

greeneyes - June 27, 2007 06:43 AM (GMT)

HAha! yes, just saw your filter on your photo page.

OK, that would be a starting point- is the computer not able to resolve the increased air flow, or is the air flow meter mis-reading because of it's new position.

Can you borrow a stock setup and try it?

There have been a few problems fitting pod filters to Altezzas, and a drop in power often results. I wonder if the AF sensor is too close to the air filter, and is not getting clean air flow across it.

Take the filter off and see if there is a difference, then tape a bit of pipe 6" long on the end of it and see what that does...

madaltezza - June 27, 2007 07:09 AM (GMT)

give me a buzz i have a scan tool that will talk to your car im keen to help you out.

keep us all up to date too!

blitzNUR - June 27, 2007 07:29 AM (GMT)

greeneyes gave me a pm about the pod.

and i was still interested in getting this pod and altezza thingy solved !!!

just a question senza, does your altezza idle and actually drive properly ?

my pod setup = does not idle properly ... up and down 700rpm 1500rpm down and up down and up ... :(

greeneyes - June 27, 2007 07:31 AM (GMT)

QUOTE

i've personally felt a vast difference between pods and using aftermkt panel filters for the stock airbox... even tried using just a fine nylon mesh to try and get the maximum flow through the stock airbox...

i've come to the conclusion that there's no way we can get maximum flow(and ultimately maximum performance) out of the stock box...most people with a fluids engineering background will be able to tell that the design was not optimised for maximum flow... and the only 2 reasons why the design is such, I can think of are:-
1) to dampen the intake pulses and possibly intake length tuning.
2) to reduce induction noise for the very fact that it's a production car that has noise emission standards to meet.

the flap, as already been talked about to open exactly at 4700rpm, is what i believe to restrict the intake flow into the engine(since low rpm doesnt need as much air as high rpm) in order to boast exceptional fuel economy and emission controls as a result of less fuel required due to the restriction.

to cut the long story short, every wierd thing we see in the intake system was probably designed to match the rest the car in stock form and its purpose as a production car which was initially aimed at high NA hp output but yet able to give good fuel economy and low emissions...don't know if u guys are aware but our stock ecu is able to control NOx emissions as well, that's why our stock ecu is so difficult to figure and so terribly sensitive to any mods...

the only way to getting the pods to work well enough on our cars is to get a piggyback ecu or a full replacement ecu... it all boils down to tuning... else we are frankly better off leaving the stock airbox intact...

if we really must insist having the pod with the stock ecu, then the airflow sensor retrofit has to be perfectly designed to imitate the airflow signal exactly like the stock airbox's, in which case the cross-sectional area has be effectively reduced to increase the flow velocity across the air flow sensor(which by the way is ironically creating a restriction in the intake path)

will type more lata... m at work!

Chat to nosrab too-

QUOTE

I am making a pod filter for my car and and have experienced a few problems.

What I have discovered is the MAF sensor can be placed anywhere on the pipe (on top, underneath, on the side, close to the pod or close to the engine) just not upside down.

My first attempt was with a 3" pipe but this diameter seems to big as the sensor doesn't seem to pick up the air flow or i think there was to much air going through the 3" pipe.

My second attempt I made up was with with pvc piping (down pipe off the house) and the diameter was 70mm, I made it up the same as the 3" pipe and the sensor seems to read it perfectly, car goes great increase in horse power and a great sound.

So I think a smaller diameter could be the answer, I am sure this isn't right but it has worked perfect on my car ENGINE 3S-GE and it my help if anyone has had the same problem with there pod filters.

All I have done is inserted a sleeve of pvc pipe inside the 3' pipe and over the sensor area to reduce the air flow, not right I no but only temporally.

Any constructive comments would be appreciated if anyone can advice what affect this has to the airflow that would be helpful before I make up the final one for the car.

blitzNUR - June 27, 2007 07:42 AM (GMT)

I've seen the apexi intake kits that join up to the factory black plastic pipe.

and it seems smaller in diameter size. can someone comfirm. and the random guy with the apexi kit said it was a great gain.

Blitz did you ever swap the sensor to the inlet end?? just to get it away from the filter...

greeneyes - June 27, 2007 07:46 AM (GMT)

Roman had some pretty precise comments about how he solved his low end stuttering. Note how far from the filter his AFM is mounted-

http://forum.altezzaclub.org.au/index.php?...opic=2634&st=40

This is before he reduced the diameter of the inlet pipe to match the pod filter.

greeneyes - June 27, 2007 08:03 AM (GMT)

This is blitznur's one that doesn't work- another short distance between the pod and the air flow meter.

senza - June 27, 2007 08:29 AM (GMT)

QUOTE (blitzNUR @ Jun 27 2007, 07:29 PM)

Yeah it seems to idle fine but I'll have a check tomorrow to make sure.

greeneyes - June 27, 2007 09:28 AM (GMT)

Hold it!

Distance to MAF sensor is not the problem-

These are installed complete kits.

alimac - June 27, 2007 11:35 AM (GMT)

I'm running the pod setup that Nosrab describes above as once he turbo'd his car it was surplus to his requirements. I have the filter and the pipe the he was using complete with the pvc insert. The Maf sensor is located at the elobow of the pipe, and I have had no problems at all. I can't say that I noticed a real change in power either for the worse or the better. I am wondering if the pvc somehow creates a sort of venturi effect that allows a smooth flow over the sensor. I will take a picture and post it up tomorrow

greeneyes - June 27, 2007 12:10 PM (GMT)

..and if you think YOU had a low dyno reading..

http://forum.altezzaclub.org.au/index.php?showtopic=1834

This is Jase's pod. Goldberg had it on his car and it ran like shit, wouldn't idle, hunted and missed, so he sold it and on Jase' car it runs fine..! :blink:

greeneyes - June 27, 2007 12:42 PM (GMT)

I'm on page 12 of our 24 pages about exhausts/intakes!

Here's the Blitz SUS

greeneyes - June 27, 2007 12:43 PM (GMT)

The Blitz Sonic

greeneyes - June 27, 2007 12:45 PM (GMT)

I'm adding links to my big post above, so you will have to go back to that and check all the links.

The same question about why Altezzas run so badly with pod filters comes up all the time.

This is spanky69r 's pod

greeneyes - June 27, 2007 01:18 PM (GMT)

I think these guys all have/had pods fitted-

email them for opinions!! :lol:

Roman
nosrab
twincams
macRS200
Noel
blitznur
Beams me up
Muzza
Spanky69r
4Rolln
sirnixalot
flyboy69
gozilla
jase
Goldberg
nickonz
2old4RBDET
Jasestu

nosrab - June 27, 2007 07:32 PM (GMT)

You can make a pod filter up for $20 out of pvc pipe first so you dont have to spend hundreds finding out it doesnt work. PM if anyone needs help

Noel - June 27, 2007 11:14 PM (GMT)

QUOTE (greeneyes @ Jun 28 2007, 01:18 AM)

I think these guys all have/had pods fitted-

email them for opinions!! :lol:

Noel

I love my apexi POD :wub: .... sound alone is fab, but it does give more kick in 3rd

at the start it did seem to bog down a bit on fast getaways but now it's sweet... :D

I don't have any aftermarket AFC .....

Have a HKS Hiper back box as well.... always heard before i'm seen :P

blitzNUR - June 28, 2007 03:43 AM (GMT)

pod in 3sge beams suck ... well .... at least mine did.

hopefully my apexi intake kit for japan( soon to arrive)

will be better. ill post info when i put it in.

:(

greeneyes - June 28, 2007 03:46 AM (GMT)

What have you done/going to do with your pod setup Blitz??

senza - June 28, 2007 04:57 AM (GMT)

Just got off the phone with the toyota guy, he said there seems to be a high/low boost button for a turbo on the drivers side just below the air vents which made him thing there may have been an engine swap done as well as a lot of wiring that has led to extra gauges which have been removed from the pillars and on top of the dash.

Their diagnostic equipment wouldn't communicate with the datalink connector (hope I got that right) so they couldn't test timing or anything related to that connector.

So basically it wasn't too helpful at all apart from finding out the A/F ratio was fine.

Blitz, after a bit of driving and what not today to check wether it drives and idles fine - there seems to be no problems there and the rev ranges stayed pretty consistent at idle.

dirty altezza - June 28, 2007 06:00 AM (GMT)

I recken the high low boost button would have been for the amplifier for the stereo the last owner installed. And as for the intake Ive got a HKS intake setup with a K&N pod, Its given me no grief what so ever, sits very steady on idle. Seems hard to wonder why some people think their arse.

jasestu - June 29, 2007 07:40 PM (GMT)

QUOTE (greeneyes @ Jun 27 2007, 06:16 PM)

If not, take it to a race car tuning place in Tauranga. If you don't know any, start with the guy that used to run the supercharged Altezza in the Targa Rally. He had that set up in Tga.

P.F. Automotive

HOON - July 5, 2007 08:48 AM (GMT)

QUOTE (greeneyes @ Jun 28 2007, 01:18 AM)

I have had the apexi pod and intake tube in my car now for over three years and have had no problems at all. the only thing I have done is cut out the crap out of the standard airbox so the pod fits inside and gets the cold air force in from the front of the car. It also makes the induction alot quieter.

The inside of the Apexi aluminium tube where the MAF sensor fits in actually tapers down in size on each side of the MAF Sensor...I think to resemble the original size of the MAF area in the standard airbox.

Ard Righ - July 5, 2007 10:43 AM (GMT)

Is there an Apexi Power Intake for the SXE10 specifically ? I was talking to a guy at Redline Performance, who sells the Apexi units, he noted the ones for the Subaru would fit and that he has used those before ??

If there is a part specific for the SXE10, I would be very keen to know :)

black200 - July 5, 2007 02:39 PM (GMT)

can you get a clip of this sound...

i have a HKS hiper aswell and i love it... althought thinking of changing to a buddyclub spec 2.... no muffler at all practically a straight pipe

greeneyes - July 6, 2007 01:16 AM (GMT)

QUOTE

The inside of the Apexi aluminium tube where the MAF sensor fits in actually tapers down in size on each side of the MAF Sensor...I think to resemble the original size of the MAF area in the standard airbox.

I think this might be the important part!

HOON - July 6, 2007 04:45 AM (GMT)

QUOTE (greeneyes @ Jul 6 2007, 01:16 PM)

I think this might be the important part!

I have also heard of people putting the MAF sensor in backwards, which really doesnt help

HOON - July 6, 2007 04:51 AM (GMT)

QUOTE (Ard Righ @ Jul 5 2007, 10:43 PM)

The apexi part number is 508-T016 and made for the SXE10. It also has the settings in the instalation instructions for the Super AFC.

alimac - July 7, 2007 12:16 AM (GMT)

QUOTE (greeneyes @ Jul 6 2007, 01:16 PM)

I think this might be the important part!

Taht would mean that Dom was on the right track with the pvc in the pipe where the MAF sensor goes

Spanky69r - July 7, 2007 12:40 AM (GMT)

yeah i had a apexi filter and pipe fitted
all the time i had it, i had no problems
just make sure the MAF is installed the right way

user posted image

Ard Righ - July 7, 2007 09:12 AM (GMT)

QUOTE (HOON @ Jul 6 2007, 04:51 PM)

QUOTE (Ard Righ @ Jul 5 2007, 10:43 PM)

The apexi part number is 508-T016 and made for the SXE10. It also has the settings in the instalation instructions for the Super AFC.

Awesome thanks man. I'll email the guy in Welli who sells the Apexi units for some pricing :)

ar rai wa ! - July 7, 2007 12:55 PM (GMT)

u can get it from speedfactory for 280$

LXTASY - July 8, 2007 08:01 AM (GMT)

man the IS200 should have definately been made with a beams! its so unfair! :angry:

theres so much to do under the hood of that thing!!!

DR-JEKL - July 8, 2007 09:37 AM (GMT)

QUOTE (LXTASY @ Jul 8 2007, 08:01 PM)

man the IS200 should have definately been made with a beams! its so unfair! :angry:

theres so much to do under the hood of that thing!!!

The 3SGE even looks a lot neater in the engine bay huh :unsure:

JohnnyGT - July 8, 2007 06:24 PM (GMT)

anyone got part no. for a AS200 K&N filter (standard shape) ?

senza - July 9, 2007 05:09 AM (GMT)

Well, took my car over to Jason in Hamilton last week and all seems to be sorted now :D Turns out the pod filter was arse and hadn't been maintained so the MAF sensor was literally covered in grit and oil and whatnot. Basically got rid of that POS and Jason fitted a new K&N filter to it and did a whole lot of other stuff that I barely followed :P

It's running a hell of a lot better now and actually has some decent pick up after Jason did what Toyota couldn't :lol:

Much thanks owed to Jason for taking the time out and checking it out on the Saturday and fixing it on the Wednesday.

madaltezza - July 9, 2007 08:21 AM (GMT)

As senza has said there was a hole lot dirt ect in his intake . The air filter witch was a hks one was not doing its job it would stop flys thats about it. the hks filters need to be cleaned and OILED to stop the dust ect getting though it but the down side of oiling the filter is it kills the MAF sensor as the oil from the filter gets on it. k&n filters dont need as much oil as HKS filter so its not as hard ont the MAF sensor. As for what alse i did to his car it was cheak everything alse was doing what it was ment to and new plugs and a service.

Thats good its going better :)

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