Title: 3sge Altezza Clutches & Flywheels
greeneyes - September 17, 2007 04:20 AM (GMT)
Ok, this post will contain info about the basics of the clutch/flywheel, but there will still be lots of detail and opinions in other posts.
Toyota used a dual-mass flywheel in the Altezza, just like Nissan and Subaru. These can get a mean shudder after a while, opening a window of opportunity to replace with a stock item, a single-piece same weight system, or a lightened single-piece for better performance. All single-piece items are aftermarket.
The stock clutch is a dual-mass flywheel. The one we replace it with is a solid disk of steel.
Toyota used a dual-mass flywheel in the Altezza, just like Nissan and Subaru. These can get a mean shudder after a while, opening a window of opportunity to replace with a stock item, a single-piece same weight system, or a lightened single-piece for better performance. All single-piece items are aftermarket.
The stock clutch is a dual-mass flywheel. The one we replace it with is a solid disk of steel.
| QUOTE |
What is the DMF's function? It is designed to isolate torsional crankshaft spikes created by diesel engines with high compression ratios. By separating the mass of the flywheel between the diesel engines and the transmission, torsional spikes can be isolated, eliminating potential damage to the transmission gear teeth. Engine-side flywheel damper springs The damper springs that are visible on the engine side of DMF are designed to dampen heavy torsional spikes that occur when the diesel engine's torsional frequency matches the torsional frequency of the transmission. When torsional frequencies match (have the same amplitude), severe damage can occur to the transmission if not isolated. DMF's isolate the torsional frequency match between the engine and transmission to an r.p.m. range below the operating range of the engine (usually between 200-400 r.p.m.). These damper springs only work hard when the engine passes through 200-400 r.p.m. at vehicle start up and shut down. DMF damper springs and/or damper springs nylon retainers usually fall because the diesel engine is not running correctly. Bad fuel injectors, worn pistol rings, bad valves, etc, will change the resonant frequency of the engine. A change in the resonant frequency of the engine can force the torsional frequency match between the engine and DMF to fall within the operating range of the engine. This forces the damper springs to work continuously, resulting in failure. Friction Ring The friction ring located between the inner and outer flywheel is designed to allow the inner and outer flywheel to slip. This feature saves the transmission from damage when torque loads exceed the vehicle rating of the transmission. The friction ring will wear out if excessive torque loads are continuously applied. Loading the vehicle beyond the rated load capacity is often the root cause of friction ring failures in DMF's. Center Bearing A sealed double row center ball bearing carries the load between the inner and outer halves of the DMF. The leading cause of center bearing failure is often related to out of balance vibration caused by not aligning the pressure plate with the DMF dowel pins. The center bearing may also fall if the clutch pilot bearing is destroyed by a worn transmission input shaft (see Pilot Bearing) or if the rated load/towing capacity of the vehicle is exceeded. Pilot Bearing The pilot bearing supplied with most DMF's is a caged needle roller bearing. If it fails, the transmission input shaft must be repaired or replaced. If the input shaft is not repaired correctly or replaced, the lack of input shaft support will result in DMF center bearing failure. Toyota came up with a novel idea and used what is commonly referred to as a "dual mass" flywheel which has a center floating section that absorbs energy. The problem is that this flywheel weighs alot (34lbs). We at SupraStore.com have asked clutch manufacturers for years to build a clutch disk that was sprung, so that we could get rid of the heavy Toyota dual-mass flywheel and use a light-weight unit like those offered from Mueller and Unorthodox Racing |
We think Toyota used a heavy flywheel to stop people stalling the car so easily, after all they don't have much torque! The dual-mass absorbs vibration in the driveline, as shown by the change in 3000rpm rumble when a solid flywheel is fitted.
We organised a group-buy with Exedy to take a dozen of their replacement single-piece flywheels off the production line and lighten them for us. They supply the high-performance clutch plates and pressure plates to fit those flywheels.
In the event, Manukau Toyota offered us TRD units at the same price, so we took the chance to get that TRD stamp on it! The specifications were identical. We have since made a second group-buy.
The retail for the TRD setup is less than stock dual-mass replacement and VIP members get a discount from the Auckland Toyota dealers as well. The actual price varies a lot due to the exchange rate.
So, if you want to replace one part of the stock unit, like the clutch plate, with something aftermarket, you will have to replace it all.
If you want to read about flywheel weights and what people think of the options, keep searching through the topics in this forum.
greeneyes - October 19, 2007 01:00 AM (GMT)
These are off Google images, and are not Altezza clutch plates.
However, the DM unit on the left does not have springs within the clutch plate to absorb transmission shock, whereas the conventional clutch using a solid flywheel on the right does. The DM unit relies on the springs and friction plates within the flywheel to do that.
However, the DM unit on the left does not have springs within the clutch plate to absorb transmission shock, whereas the conventional clutch using a solid flywheel on the right does. The DM unit relies on the springs and friction plates within the flywheel to do that.
samzbob - October 11, 2008 01:40 AM (GMT)
Replaced my clutch this morning down at work, replaced with a lighter Single piece flywheel.
I took some photos of it all still bolted to the engine, and a photo of the slave cylinder (i remember someone wanted one a while ago). Will take some of the dual mass unit and clutch plate (well worn) and pressure plate on Monday if you would like that, as its still all on my bench.
I took some photos of it all still bolted to the engine, and a photo of the slave cylinder (i remember someone wanted one a while ago). Will take some of the dual mass unit and clutch plate (well worn) and pressure plate on Monday if you would like that, as its still all on my bench.
Leiden - October 11, 2008 01:59 AM (GMT)
Could you get some measurements, particularily from the seating face where it bolts to the crank to the ring gear and depth of the clutch etc
Looking at a cheap replacement and just wondering where the ring gear needs to sit and how much extra depth will need to be taken up by the clutch fork
Looking at a cheap replacement and just wondering where the ring gear needs to sit and how much extra depth will need to be taken up by the clutch fork
samzbob - October 11, 2008 02:04 AM (GMT)
Yeh should be able to aye.
Ill take some photos and get some measurements on Monday for you. And then ill draw it all up on paint on top of the photo or something aye.
What do you mean in terms of "depth of clutch" though? Thickness??
Ill take some photos and get some measurements on Monday for you. And then ill draw it all up on paint on top of the photo or something aye.
What do you mean in terms of "depth of clutch" though? Thickness??
Leiden - October 11, 2008 06:05 AM (GMT)
Yeah, how thick it is from end to end, like from the seating face on the crank to the seating face on the release bearing,
Cheers your a legend :P
Cheers your a legend :P
2ToneTezza - August 10, 2009 09:16 PM (GMT)
I am contemplating a clutch upgrade soon. So I know I need a new clutch and flywheel but would like to confirm the exact parts I'll need. I don't want to be buying parts only to find they don't fit each other :(
will these do the job?
Exedy Heavy duty Altezza clutch - $520
lightweight flywheel - Toyota - Altezza 3S-G(SXE10) - 5kg - $598, or TRD one?
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/C...n-234360846.htm
http://www.fortyone.co.nz/parts/show/425/J...20Flywheel.html
Is there anything else I'll need to buy to do the job properly? bearings etc??
will these do the job?
Exedy Heavy duty Altezza clutch - $520
lightweight flywheel - Toyota - Altezza 3S-G(SXE10) - 5kg - $598, or TRD one?
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/C...n-234360846.htm
http://www.fortyone.co.nz/parts/show/425/J...20Flywheel.html
Is there anything else I'll need to buy to do the job properly? bearings etc??
xnickx - August 10, 2009 09:22 PM (GMT)
Just make sure the clutch kit is suited for the Solid Flywheel.
That kit will include the HD Sports Tuff Cover but a factory disc, enough for your day to day foot work but if your car is going to hit a few track days or be looking into going forced induced, look into getting a puk clutch.
Ask Mac @ Fortyone via PM through here to see if he can do you a deal on the flywheel.
If you get stuck sourcing locally drop me a PM, I can help source Exedy kits (including flywheel) for cheap :)
That kit will include the HD Sports Tuff Cover but a factory disc, enough for your day to day foot work but if your car is going to hit a few track days or be looking into going forced induced, look into getting a puk clutch.
Ask Mac @ Fortyone via PM through here to see if he can do you a deal on the flywheel.
If you get stuck sourcing locally drop me a PM, I can help source Exedy kits (including flywheel) for cheap :)
2ToneTezza - August 10, 2009 09:27 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (xnickx @ Aug 10 2009, 09:22 PM) |
| If you get stuck sourcing locally drop me a PM, I can help source Exedy kits (including flywheel) for cheap :) |
i might just do that :) will talk about it at mm09 (no i won't be upgrading beforehand :D )
and not looking at turbos just yet... will be staying NA (unless i get bored, and rich)
Romeo174 - August 11, 2009 04:38 PM (GMT)
so just jumping into the middle here i might be needing a clutch as d one i got revs me to 5000rpms at 30kph before shifting to 2nd....its not suppose to do that right? i know its not a stock clutch cuz i bought the car of an auction from mainland japan and it came with its stock clutch in the trunk? i got the turbo kit from apexi for it already...what should i do...should i switch it with the stock clutch get a new one or will the one i have be ok
NewZealanda - November 9, 2009 02:40 PM (GMT)
I have no idea about cars and clutches and stuff so mine has slipped for a while and now gone. No idea what to replace it with or what I need to replace (flywheel and clutch???) I think it still has the original one. Would like your thoughts/opinions backed with reasons....
Such as Price, Durability, Racing/Normal. I would prefer to change the least as possible but cost isn't really an issue because I would in the end prefer quality over quantity.
Such as Price, Durability, Racing/Normal. I would prefer to change the least as possible but cost isn't really an issue because I would in the end prefer quality over quantity.
xnickx - November 9, 2009 07:49 PM (GMT)
The factory flywheel is a Dual Mass unit (aka not reuseable)
So either way your going to need these parts:
Flywheel
Clutch Disc
Clutch Cover (pressure plate)
Release Bearing
+ maybe flywheel bolts depending if your still torque up correctly.
As per the original post, the TRD kit is cheaper then the stock setup:
http://z4.invisionfree.com/lexusaltezzaclu...wtopic=9570&hl=
So either way your going to need these parts:
Flywheel
Clutch Disc
Clutch Cover (pressure plate)
Release Bearing
+ maybe flywheel bolts depending if your still torque up correctly.
As per the original post, the TRD kit is cheaper then the stock setup:
http://z4.invisionfree.com/lexusaltezzaclu...wtopic=9570&hl=